Westboro Baptist Church, Wikileaks Troll Steve Jobs' Death

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What the WBC did something hypocritical again? paint me not surprised. They are attention whores plain and simple. Someone big, famous, and well liked dies they have to bash him saying he is going to hell or they loss out on the crazy christian fundamentalist license.

Khada:

I didn't mean to be aggressive towards you at all. Just asking :)
I did some research after my post and found out that Mr Jobs was pretty much against acts of philanthropy and never bothered to do anything with his money/power. I don't mean to disrespect the dead, but I do not morn his passing. I simply can't bring myself to think much of someone who finds him/her-self in such an awesome position to do good in a world that desperately needs it and yet does nothing, even with their impeding demise known to be on the near horizon.

Why should he have done that? so the masses can go "oh it's just a PR stunt that doesn't count" and then go right back to bashing him?

Aeshi:

Khada:

I didn't mean to be aggressive towards you at all. Just asking :)
I did some research after my post and found out that Mr Jobs was pretty much against acts of philanthropy and never bothered to do anything with his money/power. I don't mean to disrespect the dead, but I do not morn his passing. I simply can't bring myself to think much of someone who finds him/her-self in such an awesome position to do good in a world that desperately needs it and yet does nothing, even with their impeding demise known to be on the near horizon.

Why should he have done that? so the masses can go "oh it's just a PR stunt that doesn't count" and then go right back to bashing him?

Perhaps the question is should he care what some select people say if he knows he is doing a good thing? It would be a far cry better than doing nothing with a greater spendable wealth than the county he lived in.

cookyy2k:

Bento Box:

arc1991:


1:37

I have to agree with the BBC guy...being gay is not one of the ten commandments and being gay is not adultery.

She also says she is an evil angel...explain please!

I ain't big on the religion thing but i do know what adultery means!

Evil angel probably refers to the kind of thing that Lucifer was before he got retconned into Satan. He was originally god's accuser.

As for the ten commandments thing, fine. Slavery, child abuse and rape aren't mentioned in the big ten, either (and before you object, rape is not adultery unless the rapist is married). These things might come up later in the discussion. I'm ready for them.

Finally, on the gay part - you must be joking.

Wow those translations are truly... bias. That book was written by people to enforce whatever law they wanted to without question, the book has since been translated by everyone and their dog to say exactly what they want. My personal favourite is the New Living Translation version, must be written by zealots and bigots.

I absolutely agree. Those translations were all, almost certainly written by zealots and bigots, and even superstitious savages.

So was the source material.

"Steve Jobs' funeral will be held next week, after which he will be reburied every six months in a slightly better coffin"... What? Too soon?

arc1991:

Bento Box:

arc1991:

1:37

I have to agree with the BBC guy...being gay is not one of the ten commandments and being gay is not adultery.

She also says she is an evil angel...explain please!

I ain't big on the religion thing but i do know what adultery means!

Evil angel probably refers to the kind of thing that Lucifer was before he got retconned into Satan. He was originally god's accuser.

As for the ten commandments thing, fine. Slavery, child abuse and rape aren't mentioned in the big ten, either (and before you object, rape is not adultery unless the rapist is married). These things might come up later in the discussion. I'm ready for them.

Finally, on the gay part - you must be joking.

Doesn't god forgive all? Making that kinda silly to say "they must be put to death" as yanoo...he will forgive them? :S

And i knew that being gay was mentioned in the bible, i never said it wasn't, i was saying being gay is not adultery and isn't one of the ten commandments. :P

And also how is one man one women, both married...Fag sex?...As i say i aint big on religion...but, well...yeh.

in my opinion they are the biggest trolls ever, half the stuff they say is complete nonsense.

1) No, god doesn't forgive all. The Phelps' are Calvinists, which means that they believe that God has decided, long before any of us were born, which of us are destined for heaven, and which for hell. Also, apostasy is considered an unforgivable sin in any bible you read. Un. For. Givable.

2) I don't see where it not being one of the ten commandments has anything to do with anything; you realize there are hundreds and hundreds of other ridiculous commandments, right? 637 of them if I remember right... Definitely something in the low-mid 600's.

3) Their problem with jobs was that he, like most public figures with an actual meaningful reputation for good, was publicly secular. He didn't go on stage and praise God like they think he was supposed to.

4) They're not trolling. They believe everything they say. They are told in their bibles to praise God in all things, because everything is an act of God, and Steve Jobs' death is a thing.

4a) Of course it's all nonsense.

imnotparanoid:
Right enough of this shit.

Forced euthenasia anyone?

*Murder anyone?

Fixed it for you.

If God invented the iPhone, then God used Steve Jobs to invent the iPhone. So that kind of would make Jobs either Jesus or a Saint. Ah how I love to see people fall victim to their own logic.

They're just trolling, I wish the media would just ignore them, but I doubt that will ever happen.

thiosk:
I expect this from the WBC, it is neither shocking nor interesting. However, that this wikileaks douche were to do this obliterates the tenuous remains of his credibility.

Dreiko:

Greg Tito:
linking fake medical records stating Steve Jobs had HIV just after he passed away from a real illness like cancer just shows a complete lack of respect.

Watch the wording on that, it's like you're saying HIV is not a real illness and people have gotten sued for less XD.

I dont know if others pointed it out, but what greg's language is referring to here is that people were attributing a fake illness to him, when he in fact died of a real illness, which is shameful and insensitive. Not that HIV is fake, but the attribution of HIV to jobs is.

Also, source on people getting sued for simply saying HIV is not a real illness? I'd love to laugh at that story.

I know what he meant by it. It's just too easy to misinterpret when taken out of context which was what I felt needed pointing out. It was half-jokingly anyhow.

I don't have a link to it but I bet someone must have gotten sued for something like that, it's just too stupid to not have happened in the US with the justice system that it has :P.

Jimbo1212:
For a country that has so many guns, I am amazed no ones has taken care of the WBC for being such disgusting people.

The gun nuts are the people who agree with them. A bunch of fag-bashing republicans? Sure, they might be pro-military, but the redneck contingent of the USA is just as hateful of homosexuals as the Phelps' cult. They probably see the cult as a net neutral.

LorienvArden:
So when can we expect the Phelps to be commited into a mental institution allready ?
-clear signs of shizophrenia
-clear signs of violent intent
-clear signs of sozial incompetence
-Directly caused several disturbances of peace
-Directly depreciate religious teachings

Over here in fair europe that trial would be over in minutes and the public would be safe from lunatics like that.

I'ld never thought It'ld have to say that, but I really want the pope to go out there, publicly excomunicate them and declare their teachings heresy.
Even If america in general gives a rats rear about what the catholic church has to say - It should be made clear that what they teach is by no stretch of any imagination christian.

I don't see where any of those things apply here.

1) Schizophrenia suggests that they have paranoia or dissociative identities or some such, and I see none of that in the Phelps' cult.

2) They have never done violence, but quite the opposite: They make their money by suing when violence is done against them.

3) They're not incompetent, they're just assholes. They know they're being assholes, and they're doing it on purpose.

4) Again, they've never disturbed the peace. The people who disturb the peace, or come closest to it, are the folks who attack the cult for protesting peaceably as permitted in the Constitution.

5) What are they 'depreciating' about religious teachings? Nothing they espouse publicly goes against the Bible.

Finally, yes, damn it, everything they say is very Christian. I see a lot of people here, in other threads, and honestly everywhere, who suggest that the Phelps' cult doesn't know their Bible - but they certainly do. I'm sorry that people have decided to pick and choose the parts of the Bible that they like, and ignore the bulk of it, but the book certainly does say that gays are deserving of death. It certainly does say that believers should praise God in all things and spread the word with a joyous voice, and get this - it even tells them that they will be hated for it, and that this is a sign that they're doing it right.

Again, I'm sorry that you have this liberal-minded, watered-down version of Christianity -- actually, no. I'm not sorry. I'm glad, because it's better. Your version - indeed, the versions of Christianity espoused by everybody here so far, are so much better, kinder, more humane, than the real deal. I just wish folks realized that the real deal is terrible.

EDIT: Before anyone tries to nail this post for attacking their religion, read that last bit a second time. I'm not attacking you, far from it - I'm lauding you for being a good person. I'm praising you, because you are so, so much better than your holy book would have you be.

Khada:

Aeshi:

Khada:

I didn't mean to be aggressive towards you at all. Just asking :)
I did some research after my post and found out that Mr Jobs was pretty much against acts of philanthropy and never bothered to do anything with his money/power. I don't mean to disrespect the dead, but I do not morn his passing. I simply can't bring myself to think much of someone who finds him/her-self in such an awesome position to do good in a world that desperately needs it and yet does nothing, even with their impeding demise known to be on the near horizon.

Why should he have done that? so the masses can go "oh it's just a PR stunt that doesn't count" and then go right back to bashing him?

Perhaps the question is should he care what some select people say if he knows he is doing a good thing? It would be a far cry better than doing nothing with a greater spendable wealth than the county he lived in.

See, I agree with the cynical angle that Aeishi took - after all, Bill Gates gives MIIIIIIIIIILLIONS to charity, and he still gets flak, just for being wealthy. What Jobs dis with his money, was his business. IT doesn't make him a worse person than Bill Gates.

It just makes Bill Gates a better person than Steve Jobs.

Overly religious people try my patience. People are taking the bible way to literally. I'm reading it now from an academic standpoint and the whole point of the majority of the bible is SELF control. If you worship your iphone that's you're problem lol! and it's not so much worshiping things so much as focusing your life around them. If you focus your life around money or material possessions then the rest of your life suffers. I.E. you are so money focused you neglect your family or screw over other people in order to get ahead. And that's what I think they mean by "worshipping false gods" But that's YOUR decision. Not the fault of Steve Jobs.

And the entire message of the new testament is Forgiveness and "turn the other cheek" or how about the parable of making sure you pick the thorn out of your own eye before you try to pick the thorn out of your neighbor's eye?

The way of the new testament is a very peaceful and positive approach... not these accusatory protests about a man who was a genius of our times. Everything in moderation folks everything in moderation.

Anyway I'm not a crazy religious nut I just happened to be reading the bible and I find it crazy just how much hypocracy there is in the christian faith now a days. Carry on all.

And RIP Steve jobs. You were a great man.

Well I'll be darned.
Actually, I'm not that surprised.
Now, I'm thinking when members of the WBC die, their funerals should be protested, show them how it feels.
Kicking grieving family members when they're down is never fucking funny. Funeral protests should be illegal.
Every member of that pathetic excuse for a religion is either evil, or brainwashed.
Really, there's not much to be done about them, though. If they're forced to disband, they can just rename the religion.
Sucks, don't it?

In all seriousness, I'll leave my usual comment. How is celebrating at memorial sites illegal, while funeral protests are covered by free speech?

Dumbfish1:

imnotparanoid:
Right enough of this shit.

Forced euthenasia anyone?

*Murder anyone?

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, if it's forced euthanasia, it's not really assisted suicide, is it?

At least I'm open with my desire for the bigots of the world to die painfully. :D

We should all road-trip to Kansas (or wherever their church is) and protest the WBC. That would rule, right? Who's with me?

im alright with god.... its his fan club i cant stand

themerrygambit:
Overly religious people try my patience. People are taking the bible way to literally. I'm reading it now from an academic standpoint and the whole point of the majority of the bible is SELF control. If you worship your iphone that's you're problem lol! and it's not so much worshiping things so much as focusing your life around them. If you focus your life around money or material possessions then the rest of your life suffers. I.E. you are so money focused you neglect your family or screw over other people in order to get ahead. And that's what I think they mean by "worshipping false gods" But that's YOUR decision. Not the fault of Steve Jobs.

And the entire message of the new testament is Forgiveness and "turn the other cheek" or how about the parable of making sure you pick the thorn out of your own eye before you try to pick the thorn out of your neighbor's eye?

The way of the new testament is a very peaceful and positive approach... not these accusatory protests about a man who was a genius of our times. Everything in moderation folks everything in moderation.

Anyway I'm not a crazy religious nut I just happened to be reading the bible and I find it crazy just how much hypocracy there is in the christian faith now a days. Carry on all.

And RIP Steve jobs. You were a great man.

Sorry, but no.

I'm not sure I'd go the 'great man' route - I think you have to do a bit of philanthropy to score that title. I'll give him credit all day, though for being a marketing mastermind, and a design genius. I hope the new guy leads as well as he did -- and also hope that he doesn't try to push into the serious computer market. >_>

Love my Apple Phone. Hate Apple Computers.

EDIT: Wow, my original post left out the on-topic bit. -.-;;

binnsyboy:

Dumbfish1:

imnotparanoid:
Right enough of this shit.

Forced euthenasia anyone?

*Murder anyone?

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, if it's forced euthanasia, it's not really assisted suicide, is it?

At least I'm open with my desire for the bigots of the world to die painfully. :D

No one deserves to die, and you shouldn't hate the WBC, you should pity them. From an early age they have this religious bullshit drilled into them, with 'prayers' and daily picketing. You watch footage of them protesting, and you see they've got young kids with them, like really young, holding up "God hates fags" signs. Not only are they indoctrinated with this crap, but any of them that show signs of rebellion are kicked out of the family, and ignored.

It's easy to hate someone, but shouting and screaming at them isn't going to make them change their views.

Dumbfish1:

binnsyboy:

Dumbfish1:

*Murder anyone?

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, if it's forced euthanasia, it's not really assisted suicide, is it?

At least I'm open with my desire for the bigots of the world to die painfully. :D

No one deserves to die, and you shouldn't hate the WBC, you should pity them. From an early age they have this religious bullshit drilled into them, with 'prayers' and daily picketing. You watch footage of them protesting, and you see they've got young kids with them, like really young, holding up "God hates fags" signs. Not only are they indoctrinated with this crap, but any of them that show signs of rebellion are kicked out of the family, and ignored.

It's easy to hate someone, but shouting and screaming at them isn't going to make them change their views.

Calm down mate, I was joking. I'm well aware that their children are pretty damn brainwashed.

Edit: double post. Stupid thing froze on me.

SinisterGehe:

imnotparanoid:
Right enough of this shit.

Forced euthenasia anyone?

I once planned to make a statue out of clay that resembles Jesus on cross and then get some depleted Uranium^223 or Plutonium, or the any of the radioactive gold isotopes. Hide them inside the statue then ship it to them as a "gift from a believer - you are doing the right thing, may God's light radiate upon you"...

But then my dreams were shattered because according to UN, that is considered to be international terrorism... :(

Oh well I can always dream of destroying those who do not respect humanity and what it has achieved.

On topic... When their member dies next time, I think I will travel to US just to picket hes funeral. But whoever did the Wikileaks shit clearly didn't know that Steve had announce hes cancer... LONG AGO!!!

Sigh. I hate humans...

How abou instead of trying to kill Christians, you try to kill off faith and dogma? The problem is not the people - it's how the people think. Faith -- believing things without supporting evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence -- is a problem, because it sets all your ideas up for failure across the board. Dogma is a problem because it sets rules in stone, and disallows further examination of one's beliefs. Together these are a perfect recipe for crusades, witch hunts, the God's Liberation Army, and airplane-borne wrecking crews.

Instead of killing the people, why not inform them instead? There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity. Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it.

Bento Box:

1) Schizophrenia suggests that they have paranoia or dissociative identities or some such, and I see none of that in the Phelps' cult.

If you associate homosexuallity with a god wrought plague, HIV with gods wrath and consuming apple products with worshipping the devil - then you qualify for a dissociative disorder. not a disociative personality disorder, but shizophrenic nevertheless.

Bento Box:

2) They have never done violence, but quite the opposite: They make their money by suing when violence is done against them.

Picekting funerals, ruining the last moments of a familiy to mourn their beloved is NOT violence ? No, they certainly never got cought punching somebody- though they tell everyone clearly they wished you died because you sinned. If somebody discusses how they want to rape and kill somebody - wouldn't you hope the police arrested them BEFORE they actually killed said someone ?

Bento Box:

3) They're not incompetent, they're just assholes. They know they're being assholes, and they're doing it on purpose.

They are sociallyincompetent - meaning they are incapable of functioning and living with other people without any major problems. As the dear Phelps have a habbit of inciting picket lines and protests against most of society, they clearly are associal. They certainly have a knack of luring other people to their cause - so perhaps they should form another society somewhere else - preferably in the middle of greenland or the Kongo.

Bento Box:

4) Again, they've never disturbed the peace. The people who disturb the peace, or come closest to it, are the folks who attack the cult for protesting peaceably as permitted in the Constitution.

So if a landmine detonates in a subway station, the terrorist who placed it didn't disturbe the peace, but the one who happened to step on it and caused the explosion did... interesting rationale I have to say.

Bento Box:

5) What are they 'depreciating' about religious teachings? Nothing they espouse publicly goes against the Bible.

We begin with christianity itself, for smearing the teachings of christianity a shitmustache and replacing everything from forgiveness to honesty with hate and more hate. I am pretty sure you will find juicy tirades of those nutjobs how beeing a muslim or jew is sinnfull worship of the devil as well.

Bento Box:

Finally, yes, damn it, everything they say is very Christian. I see a lot of people here, in other threads, and honestly everywhere, who suggest that the Phelps' cult doesn't know their Bible - but they certainly do.

I am sorry that it takes a religion major to tell you this - but if you take the bible litterally then you can not live in modern society.The book of leviticus certainly spells out that beeing gay is a sin before god, but it also says some damn nasty things about how women should be treated and also makes killing in revenge totally ok and cool.
Thing is - this was written during the f*ing exodus where people where traveling a quite epic journey and had to be kept in line by drastic measures. It simply doesn't apply anymore. If you take the rest of the good book and actually put 2+2 together then there is just ONE tennant that god requires of you: L O V E.
You are required to love god. You are required to love your other people. Thats what the cross is symbolising and why that fellow called jesus was willing to torture himself for.
As an added benefit: "Though should not take the name of God in vain." I think for that one the phelps will burn burn burn.

Bento Box:

Again, I'm sorry that you have this liberal-minded, watered-down version of Christianity -- actually, no. I'm not sorry. I'm glad, because it's better. Your version - indeed, the versions of Christianity espoused by everybody here so far, are so much better, kinder, more humane, than the real deal. I just wish folks realized that the real deal is terrible.

Even if you disregard the whole new testament and only focus on the old one, no - christianity itself is supposed to be about respecting each other, self sacrifd peacefull coexistance. Why in dear heavens did god liberate his people from slavery ? Why did he protect Cain from reprecussions from his peers ?
If you add the new testament you certainly can view attoning for the inherited sin as a bit of a burden - might also motivate you to simply live a healthy and productive life instead.(catholic) Or you disregard it and realize that jesus allready absolved you of your sins and you only have to attone for the sins before yourself (protestant interpretation)

There is no shed of a doubt that christianity has been abused for quite a few tragedies in the past, simply by disregarding "You shall not kill" and bending choice passages of the bible to support your views. As Quoted before "I like your christ, but not your christians" There simply are way too many who call themselfs believers because they attend chruch every sunday. Not a fault of the faith but of people to stupid to follow a four word direct command.

You keep using that word "liberal" but I suppose you do not understand what it means...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal

Lastly, please do not assume that I am christian. As I was quite dissatisfied with christianity I chose to learn about it and disect it.

God is in me and my pleasure is the only sacrament I desire. When in the open, I tread lightly as to not disturb anyone. If anyone disturbes me, I ask them to stop. If they persist, I destroy them.

I hold no love for Steve Jobs, though I can appreciate what he and his company have done for the technological world (it's just a shame that he didn't go on to become the best used car salesman ever) but these WB cultists just make me sick.
Where's a psycho with more shotgun shells than sanity when you need one?

Bento Box:

SinisterGehe:

imnotparanoid:
Right enough of this shit.

Forced euthenasia anyone?

I once planned to make a statue out of clay that resembles Jesus on cross and then get some depleted Uranium^223 or Plutonium, or the any of the radioactive gold isotopes. Hide them inside the statue then ship it to them as a "gift from a believer - you are doing the right thing, may God's light radiate upon you"...

But then my dreams were shattered because according to UN, that is considered to be international terrorism... :(

Oh well I can always dream of destroying those who do not respect humanity and what it has achieved.

On topic... When their member dies next time, I think I will travel to US just to picket hes funeral. But whoever did the Wikileaks shit clearly didn't know that Steve had announce hes cancer... LONG AGO!!!

Sigh. I hate humans...

How abou instead of trying to kill Christians, you try to kill off faith and dogma? The problem is not the people - it's how the people think. Faith -- believing things without supporting evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence -- is a problem, because it sets all your ideas up for failure across the board. Dogma is a problem because it sets rules in stone, and disallows further examination of one's beliefs. Together these are a perfect recipe for crusades, witch hunts, the God's Liberation Army, and airplane-borne wrecking crews.

Instead of killing the people, why not inform them instead? There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity. Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it.

How do you teach a person who doesn't want to be taught? I am sure if it would be that simple, the Age of Enlightenment would and the 1800ths with it science and everything would have driven religion off the face of the humanity. Fact is, you can't kill ideas...
It is easy for people who don't understand the complicated word to take a grip on something supernatural. If that supernatural brings the feeling on comfort and safety you can not just rip it off them. I am sure that you wouldn't want to give away your coat if you are feeling cold and I say that according to the thermometer it is not that cold here, you could survive without the coat easy - will you hand your coat to me? It has been seen in social science many times, no matter how violent or troubled the mother is, no matter how much she beats or hates her child the children will always get defensive when you talk bad about their mothers, it is the same in the nature, no matter how much the mother attacks the pup, it wil continue following the mother.

Religion is like that, it is safety and comfort for those who do not understand or want to understand, you can not educate them out of their beliefs, they will just retaliate - they will go defensive, they will do anything to make sure that their personal world view doesn't get shattered. When Christians were being hunted by romans, they went underground, they lied about their faith, they hide their religion from the sight of those who were out to get rid of it. Jews have been hunted because of their religion for thousands of years and what did they do... diaspora. They shattered in to thousands of small pieces than can not all be retaliated, they religion and ideology was saved.

If we think religion as some kind of bad idea, a ghost of mid, something that is bad and should be removed - which I do, for the most parts. It can be removed either by proving to the person that hes believes are wrong, hes way of thinking can be changed via 'therapy' - mind control. Melt, reinforce, set, but this method has been proven only to work for short period of time, the old ideas will submerge sooner or later. And as science knows, therapy doesn't work unless the subject embraces it, it wont work unless the subject wants it to work. We can not change the set mind state of a human, it must change it itself. We can not force religion to disappear, we can only offer other answer to the mystery of life and existence of everything and hope that those who still hang on to the old views and beliefs will take them and embrace them.

It has been proven in the history that you can not kill ideas - ideologies to be exact. There will always be someone who survives with the the ideas or someone who finds them again. Humans have for thousands of years tried to eradicate views that they have not approved with, they have all survived until they disappear in to the mist of majority. No one hangs on the old beliefs of Kalevala - the epic poetry and mythology of Finland. But almost every Finn can recite you how the basic plot and stories go, we know them, but hundreds of years of education and force feeding Christianity did it's job, no one anymore lingers to the old ideas. The Finns were never happy with their forced beliefs and that is why out country soon has a majority of atheist and people of do not belong to a church/religion.

We can not force ideas out of people's heads, we can only offer other ideas and hope. But we can remove the people who hold these ideas, but they can remove us as much as we can remove them.

I dream of eradicating religion of this world, I wish people would see the reality in its whole beauty and not cloud their views by supernatural filters. But I can only dream, but I will never act violently towards anyone for their ideas, I will not go as low as religion has gone in order to force people to their dogmas. I will give a warm welcome to anyone who wants to accept my view, but I will retaliate - intellectually - who tries to force theirs on me.

1) Let's just agree on a word here - I don't agree that those things are signs of schizophrenia; schizophrenia is a very specific set of conditions. I do agree that interpreting anything as a sign of God's wrath is crazy, especially in a modern society where we can explain most of the phenomena that get such credit.

2)The Phelps do not commit violence. they don't even threaten it. They say that your loved one is in hell, because according to their holy book, your loved one is in hell. As a religion major, you should know all about the myriad harmless things a person can do, that lands them straight in the lake of fire, where they will be tortured forever. More on that in a bit.

3)I suppose I can agree with you that in the greater society they are socially inept, but as a tribe unto themselves, they get along just fine, and they follow another tenet of scripture that, as a religious major, you should recognize: they are in this world, but not of this world. As true believers, they believe themselves to be separate from society. As true believers, they consider it their duty to win converts. They don't exist to make friends; per scripture, that's not what they are supposed to do.

4)The Phelps' cult doesn't place fucking landmines. Seriously, where are you getting this? They protest. They protest peaceably. They protest within their rights, with the proper permits, on the land that they are permitted to use, in a society that values free speech - do you value free speech? Your analogy fails in the most basic sense.

5)Which "teachings of Christianity" are they smearing? Did you gloss over the bit where the Bible condemns homosexuality as an abomination? It's not my fault or yours, that that happens to be the part of the Bible that they place emphasis on. I'm glad you disagree with them. Obviously we both do, but for chrissake, please don't pretend that the Bible doesn't say things that it absolutely does.

We stopped numbering things hrere, but I'm gonna stick with enumeration, for ease.

6)I agree wholeheartedly that taking the Bible literally is no way to live in a modern society - I'd take it a step further and say that it's no way to live in any society. That opens up a whole can of worms, though - at that point, which parts do you take as literal, and which parts as allegory? The Bible says to love your neighbor, and this is generally considered to mean, "love your Jewish neighbors." The same book has instructions on how to keep slaves -- not just slaves from other tribes, but Jewish slaves. It even explains the loophole for getting around that pesky seven-year limit on keeping Jewish slaves. To me, that's a contradiction; slavery and love are necessary mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned. Which one is allegory? Personally I take the whole damn book as allegory, and as fiction.

As an aside, there is no extrabiblical evidence that the Exodus ever happened as described. Ever.

Yes, it does also say lots of terrible things about women. Is that literal or allegory?

It says awful things about pork and shellfish (before you bring up Peter, that still never fixed the pork problem), plots of land with more than one kind of crop, poly-cotton blends, and dozens of other nonsensical non-transgressions that will land you in hell. And that brings us to hell.

You say that the single overarching idea in the Bible is love, so answer this:

If you had a child, and that child didn't love y-- no, change it up.

Say you had a child, and you gave him up for adoption, not because you didn't love him, but because you could not support him: if you gave your child up for adoption as an ultimate act of love, so that the child could have a better life than you could ever give. The child goes through life unaware of you. He doesn't know you exist until, sometime in his late teens, you come and visit him and explain that you're his real father. He doesn't lash out violently, or even seem to mind terribly much that he was adopted, and he even thinks it was good of you to give him a better life -- we'll even say he's gracious and thankful for the gift, but ultimately he doesn't love you. Maybe you two just don't get along, or any reason really. For whatever reason, he doesn't love you.

Would it be an act of love to construct a torture chamber in your basement, kidnap him one night, and torture him until he dies -- moreover, fill the basement with space-age life-extending technology, giving him practical immortality, and then continue to torture him forever and ever?

Because that's as close an approximation to hell as I can think of, and that was God's idea, not mine.

Now, let's take a look at Jesus. Overall a decent guy - had some crazy ideas about not having a savings account, or even going out to look for food, but I could probably get along with him, long as he wasn't too pushy. Then he got tortured to death, and rose to become God again.

Wait, let's take a look at that again.

He got tortured for three whole days (although really it was more like a day and a half - Friday evening to Sunday morning), and after that he got to ascend bodily into Heaven and be God. I dunno about you, but I'd sure as hell take that deal.

And finally we get to Seven, which is good because this has been a lot of typing, and my hands are getting tired.

7a) I don't see an awful lot about respect in the Bible. I see a lot about shunning society and living separately from it, indeed actively seeking persecution because that's a sign that you're doing it right.

7b) Yes, God freed his people. He also sold them out to their slavers in the first place, because they rebelled (i.e. they didn't love him).

7c) Cool! You found one piece of proper mercy -- except taht Cain was, of course, the first person ever to feel the guilt of a murder, and the first person ever to experience the death of a family member, but whatever, right?

7d) I don't need the Bible to tell me to lead a good life. I have friends, and I like it when my friends are happy, so I do good things for them, to make them happy. I like people in general, and even if I didn't, it would still behoove me not to act like an asshole, because that is more likely to encourage people not to treat me like an asshole.

7e)The Bible has not been abused to commit evils; it has been used. I hope that I've made that part clear enough in this post, and many others before it in this very thread. It is not a 'good book.'

7f) You're damn right, brother. There are way too many people who call themselves Christian, and every last one of them believes something different about who God is, and what God is, and whom he loves, and whom he hates, and how to please him and what pisses him off, and what you should do to people when they commit atrocities against God like get drunk or disobey their parents (protip: death for both, if you follow it to the letter).

8?) I apologize for assuming that - you seemed to be defending the Bible, and from here, it still looks like you are. If I'm wrong about that, then by all means correct me, but if I'm right, and you are defending the Bible, then why did you reject Christianity?

9?) OK, so hedonism condoned by God, if I'm reading that right? Fair enough, sounds a little bit like Laveyan Satanism to me, at least on the surface. I can dig that. Do what you like, long as you're not hurting anyone else, right? Good philosophy, and I'll laud it all day and twice on Sunday.

Not quite getting the 'destroy them' part, though. How many people have you killed for being a nuisance?

P.S., I'm mostly kidding about that last little quip.

EDIT: Collapsed the exchange in a spoiler tag, fixed a few typos.

Dear Anonymous, do something about this.

KTHANKSBY

SinisterGehe:

Bento Box:

SinisterGehe:

I once planned to make a statue out of clay that resembles Jesus on cross and then get some depleted Uranium^223 or Plutonium, or the any of the radioactive gold isotopes. Hide them inside the statue then ship it to them as a "gift from a believer - you are doing the right thing, may God's light radiate upon you"...

But then my dreams were shattered because according to UN, that is considered to be international terrorism... :(

Oh well I can always dream of destroying those who do not respect humanity and what it has achieved.

On topic... When their member dies next time, I think I will travel to US just to picket hes funeral. But whoever did the Wikileaks shit clearly didn't know that Steve had announce hes cancer... LONG AGO!!!

Sigh. I hate humans...

How abou instead of trying to kill Christians, you try to kill off faith and dogma? The problem is not the people - it's how the people think. Faith -- believing things without supporting evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence -- is a problem, because it sets all your ideas up for failure across the board. Dogma is a problem because it sets rules in stone, and disallows further examination of one's beliefs. Together these are a perfect recipe for crusades, witch hunts, the God's Liberation Army, and airplane-borne wrecking crews.

Instead of killing the people, why not inform them instead? There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity. Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it.

How do you teach a person who doesn't want to be taught? I am sure if it would be that simple, the Age of Enlightenment would and the 1800ths with it science and everything would have driven religion off the face of the humanity. Fact is, you can't kill ideas...
It is easy for people who don't understand the complicated word to take a grip on something supernatural. If that supernatural brings the feeling on comfort and safety you can not just rip it off them. I am sure that you wouldn't want to give away your coat if you are feeling cold and I say that according to the thermometer it is not that cold here, you could survive without the coat easy - will you hand your coat to me? It has been seen in social science many times, no matter how violent or troubled the mother is, no matter how much she beats or hates her child the children will always get defensive when you talk bad about their mothers, it is the same in the nature, no matter how much the mother attacks the pup, it wil continue following the mother.

Religion is like that, it is safety and comfort for those who do not understand or want to understand, you can not educate them out of their beliefs, they will just retaliate - they will go defensive, they will do anything to make sure that their personal world view doesn't get shattered. When Christians were being hunted by romans, they went underground, they lied about their faith, they hide their religion from the sight of those who were out to get rid of it. Jews have been hunted because of their religion for thousands of years and what did they do... diaspora. They shattered in to thousands of small pieces than can not all be retaliated, they religion and ideology was saved.

If we think religion as some kind of bad idea, a ghost of mid, something that is bad and should be removed - which I do, for the most parts. It can be removed either by proving to the person that hes believes are wrong, hes way of thinking can be changed via 'therapy' - mind control. Melt, reinforce, set, but this method has been proven only to work for short period of time, the old ideas will submerge sooner or later. And as science knows, therapy doesn't work unless the subject embraces it, it wont work unless the subject wants it to work. We can not change the set mind state of a human, it must change it itself. We can not force religion to disappear, we can only offer other answer to the mystery of life and existence of everything and hope that those who still hang on to the old views and beliefs will take them and embrace them.

It has been proven in the history that you can not kill ideas - ideologies to be exact. There will always be someone who survives with the the ideas or someone who finds them again. Humans have for thousands of years tried to eradicate views that they have not approved with, they have all survived until they disappear in to the mist of majority. No one hangs on the old beliefs of Kalevala - the epic poetry and mythology of Finland. But almost every Finn can recite you how the basic plot and stories go, we know them, but hundreds of years of education and force feeding Christianity did it's job, no one anymore lingers to the old ideas. The Finns were never happy with their forced beliefs and that is why out country soon has a majority of atheist and people of do not belong to a church/religion.

We can not force ideas out of people's heads, we can only offer other ideas and hope. But we can remove the people who hold these ideas, but they can remove us as much as we can remove them.

I dream of eradicating religion of this world, I wish people would see the reality in its whole beauty and not cloud their views by supernatural filters. But I can only dream, but I will never act violently towards anyone for their ideas, I will not go as low as religion has gone in order to force people to their dogmas. I will give a warm welcome to anyone who wants to accept my view, but I will retaliate - intellectually - who tries to force theirs on me.

OK, I'm really tired of typing right now, and probably won't return to this thread until real late tonight, or tomorrow morning-ish, but I wanna give a quick response to this.

I agree, Religion is a problem, but it's a symptom of the real issue: faith. Religions don't have evidence to back them up, so they rely on indoctrinating people very early on that 'faith' is a good thing. The way to defeat this (and granted, it certainly won't be perfectly effective) is by countering that indoctrination early on, too, by teaching important stuff like critical thinking and philosophy of science. Even if this doesn't work for everyone, it certainly will make the problem less than it is, and even for the people who don't get 'better (for lack of a better term in my word-addled mind),' the answer is not to crush them. Let them run their course -- push back with the better ideas of course, but killing them just makes them martyrs, never mind that it's a shitty thing to do.

I'm going to go somewhere that isn't a keyboard for a while now. *shakes his poor hands violently*

Greg Tito:
"Westboro will picket his funeral. He had a huge platform; gave God no glory & taught sin," wrote Margie Phelps, daughter of church leader Fred Phelps, on Twitter last night.

Okay, three things. One: How dare they give me a reason to respect Steve Jobs! Two: If "gave god no glory" is grounds for having your funeral picketed, they are going to be extremely busy from this point forward. Three: What sin did he teach? The sin of having an iPhone. Like the one she apparently has?

Greg Tito:
"Rebels mad cuz I used iPhone to tell you Steve Jobs is in hell. God created iPhone for that purpose! :)"

I couldn't help laughing for around a minute in response to that. God didn't create iPhone. Jobs did. JOBS! I know their names sound similar, but they are not the same people, no matter what the members of the Cult of Apple say.

Vanbael:
If God invented the iPhone, then God used Steve Jobs to invent the iPhone. So that kind of would make Jobs either Jesus or a Saint. Ah how I love to see people fall victim to their own logic.

You're assuming they used logic.

Will someone please go and assassinate one of these WBC members so that they'll shut up? How come everyone who has a message worth listening to ends up dying and yet we still have these motherfuckers spreading hate and causing misantropy.

arc1991:

xitel:

After several people pointed out the irony of using the product created by the same man she was damning, Phelps responded, "Rebels mad cuz I used iPhone to tell you Steve Jobs is in hell. God created iPhone for that purpose! :)"

God created the iPhone. The iPhone was created by Apple. Thus, we can assume that according to the WBC, Apple is God. Now, Steve Jobs was the creator of Apple. Thus, if Apple is God, then Steve Jobs created God, thus making him a step higher than God. WBC is protesting against Steve Jobs. meaning that WBC is protesting against the man who created God. Logic. It just... it doesn't work with WBC. It can't.

Tweet that to her...please for the love of apple (god) do it!

Somebody, anybody, tweet this...

I might not be an Apple fan but I know that every life is precious and that this kind of behavior is just totally unacceptable.

Well done indeed internet.

Now then, to ignore these trolls again...

Bento Box:

Khada:

Aeshi:

Why should he have done that? so the masses can go "oh it's just a PR stunt that doesn't count" and then go right back to bashing him?

Perhaps the question is should he care what some select people say if he knows he is doing a good thing? It would be a far cry better than doing nothing with a greater spendable wealth than the county he lived in.

See, I agree with the cynical angle that Aeishi took - after all, Bill Gates gives MIIIIIIIIIILLIONS to charity, and he still gets flak, just for being wealthy. What Jobs dis with his money, was his business. IT doesn't make him a worse person than Bill Gates.

It just makes Bill Gates a better person than Steve Jobs.

I think there is a flaw in your logic... I'll let you find it though. I'll wrap this up by saying, Bill Gates donates billions to charity and still cops flak, but....

1. Who cares, that's no reason to not do a good thing. People seem to have their priorities mixed up. You do it if it's right. Not because of how much approval you'll receive.
2. Bill Gates is a crazy SOB which is probably a big part of why he gets some negative comments. Do a little research into it and you'll see what I mean.
3. What else could someone possibly use that many billions of dollars for? It's beyond ridiculous to just hoard that to yourself.

Good day.

Please stop reporting on everything Fox News and Westboro Baptist Church does, Escapist. There's no point. They do crazy things for controversy and attention, which they get from articles like this. Then people get angry and post a bunch, and finally leave satisfied they've proven THEY are smart and sophisticated unless those stupid guys. :/

There's no reason to even bother with either group. It validates them to be taken seriously enough to be reported on.

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