Casual Shinji: t's not so much the games themselves that I have a problem with; If they're good, they're good.
It's just the constant yammering by indy developers and everyone else that games should be so much more then what they are now, and that to be taken seriously as a art form, yadda yadda yadda...
For a billion dollar industry, the games world has such a low self esteem.
Oh I agree, gaming is in a good shape as it is, it's the biggest entertainment market in the world these days for a reason.
I just hate when games are praised and praised for being artistic and having great visual design and blah blah blah. But then it's actually a rather simple and rather boring puzzle platformer and not actually something particularly unique and special. Like Limbo. Limbo is exactly that to me.
A good example of being unique without sacrificing gameplay and enjoyment for "art" or just not using "art" as a main selling point was I Am Alive, I found that to have really nice visual direction and be nice and unique and fresh, whilst also having really solid survival gameplay.
It seems that indie developers are becoming as formulaic as the stereotypes they tell about major studio's. If they're not just making a bad game and justifying it by saying "its different" (The Path, Dear Esther), its another platformer that evokes the fragility of childhood or some such shit.
First indie game I've ever seen that actually looked to be making a legit point on childhood is Papa and Yo. Big shocker, thats the only one thats not actually independent.
In fact, most of the genuinely good ideas coming from smaller studios these days are the ones coming from studios backed by major publishers. Journey, I am Alive, Papa and Yo, etc.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film. If you had to put up 50 million of your own money where are you going to put it? There are indie films and indie games but they are never going to be the mainstream. Sure there is going to be a breakout hit now then, but by and large its only ever going to be a niche product.
What the gaming industry is lacking is a golden era like the 70s for moives. There are no gaming equivalents of the Godfarther or Taxi Driver. Stories with enough sex and violence to keep the blockbuster crew happy and enough character and emotions to appeal to the indie crowd.
Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
Johnathan Blow: Games these days are like shitty action movies.
Dude you made a game about jumping on shit.
But he does have somewhat of a point about games essentially trying to be shitty movies. Games like certain RPGs that sacrifice depth and storyline complexity for more "cinematic" visuals during dialogue segments or like certain shooters that feature extended QTEs instead of shooting things (or that rely on scripted events intead of enemy complexity or AI) do seem to fall into that category.
Sigh..... When will people stop pushing games towards art and start making games that are actually fun to play? Stop trying to be artsy and concentrate on the damn gameplay.
Foolproof: Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
Just fyi, people dislike God of War because after the first one it just sort of turns into a teenage male power fantasy. Then again you might've only been thinking of the first one.
Foolproof: Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
Just fyi, people dislike God of War because after the first one it just sort of turns into a teenage male power fantasy. Then again you might've only been thinking of the first one.
...anyone who genuinely believes thats what the games are is spectacularly good at missing the point, and as such are probably the same kind of people who think of Scarface as teenage male power fantasy.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film. If you had to put up 50 million of your own money where are you going to put it? There are indie films and indie games but they are never going to be the mainstream. Sure there is going to be a breakout hit now then, but by and large its only ever going to be a niche product.
What the gaming industry is lacking is a golden era like the 70s for moives. There are no gaming equivalents of the Godfarther or Taxi Driver. Stories with enough sex and violence to keep the blockbuster crew happy and enough character and emotions to appeal to the indie crowd.
Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
I swear it's like the only game Blow thinks is AAA is Call of Duty. A game which, while it sells well, is not the most popular gaming franchise of all time, it doesn't break sales records when it releases.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film. If you had to put up 50 million of your own money where are you going to put it? There are indie films and indie games but they are never going to be the mainstream. Sure there is going to be a breakout hit now then, but by and large its only ever going to be a niche product.
What the gaming industry is lacking is a golden era like the 70s for moives. There are no gaming equivalents of the Godfarther or Taxi Driver. Stories with enough sex and violence to keep the blockbuster crew happy and enough character and emotions to appeal to the indie crowd.
Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
I swear it's like the only game Blow thinks is AAA is Call of Duty. A game which, while it sells well, is not the most popular gaming franchise of all time, it doesn't break sales records when it releases.
Uh, yeah it does. COD breaks sales records not just for games, but for pretty much any product ever each time it releases.
But yeah, Blow and most of these assholes think AAA gaming is just COD. They're also the kind who don't remember COD 4.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film.
Not arguing with you, but picking up a point here. This is not about Citizen Kane vs. Transformers. This is about the necessity that game creators fucking understand the inherent strengths and possibilties (and weaknesses) of the medium/the artform they're working with.
I like action games, I like to shoot stuff. Very much so. But I'm seeing a development where, yes, I more and more have to watch a shitty action movie story that just happens to have inter-, uh, re- active(?) shooting galleries in between.
_____
I remember the first Call of Duty where... ...there is a point during the Russian campaign where you singlehandedly had to defat a whole enemy platoon from advancing. And the game left you choices to do so. You had the freedom to try out stuff, to look for the sweet spot that would give a tactical advantage.
Nowadays... ... in every freaking encounter you are only allowed to precisely follow the instructions the director is giving you. Go to X, hold out for 5 minutes and/or 25 enemies. Proceed, rinse and repeat. I remember this scene(!) in Black Ops, where for 10-15 minutes the only thing that you are playing/controlling is your character's head. And even here the game fucking takes control to make sure you stare at the butt of that pretty secretary passing you in Pentagon's hallway. wtf.
As so often, there's a video for 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
And this complete neglect of what an interactive medium/artform can and imho should be about is indeed quote troubling unquote.
I swear that whenever Blow opens his mouth (teehee) he becomes less and less bearable. Sure the guy's made a critically acclaimed game but the whole "I am gaming's sole Messiah" attitude is really starting to piss me off.
Foolproof: Uh, yeah it does. COD breaks sales records not just for games, but for pretty much any product ever each time it releases.
But yeah, Blow and most of these assholes think AAA gaming is just COD. They're also the kind who don't remember COD 4.
Not really, the best selling game of all time is pokemon red/blue at 40 million copies, no game has ever come really close to that, followed by the sims, and guild wars.
I actually really hated cod4, it's story was a mess and it's narrative was all over the place.
Foolproof: It seems that indie developers are becoming as formulaic as the stereotypes they tell about major studio's. If they're not just making a bad game and justifying it by saying "its different" (The Path, Dear Esther), its another platformer that evokes the fragility of childhood or some such shit.
First indie game I've ever seen that actually looked to be making a legit point on childhood is Papa and Yo. Big shocker, thats the only one thats not actually independent.
In fact, most of the genuinely good ideas coming from smaller studios these days are the ones coming from studios backed by major publishers. Journey, I am Alive, Papa and Yo, etc.
Indeed, and to be honest if I want to play a 2D platformer about going to rescue a princess I'd rather just play Super Mario Bros 3 or something y'know? Where the gameplay is near perfect rather than focusing on a bullshit "message".
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
Yeah, pretty much. It's an easy way of getting media attention and nothing more.
I like the people defending the shitty action movie game he attacks, why are people so eager to start on forums "chocolate sauce is shit" "OMFG YOU PIECE OF SHIT FUCKING DIE YOU NO IDEA WHAT YOU ON ABOUT YOU FUCKING NOOB!"
why does everyone spell kane wrong good lord.it isn't cain or cane.its KANE any way he makes a good point when he says film didn't become great by trying to be like theatre and therefore gaming wont become great by trying to be like films.that is probably the reason I disagree with the people who say that we are in the golden age of gaming.to me the golden age is when games are games living on game rules and telling game stories or not any stories at all rather than the Indiana Jones worship of uncharted or tomb raider or lord of the rings worship of dragon age or any other generic fantasy game.
Foolproof: Uh, yeah it does. COD breaks sales records not just for games, but for pretty much any product ever each time it releases.
But yeah, Blow and most of these assholes think AAA gaming is just COD. They're also the kind who don't remember COD 4.
Not really, the best selling game of all time is pokemon red/blue at 40 million copies, no game has ever come really close to that, followed by the sims, and guild wars.
Not best selling, fastest selling. The COD series has higher day one sales than any media form in history, including the Harry Potter books.
Yawn, Braid... I got tired of that game pretty quickly... ohh you can reverse time, ohh you can affect time in a different way now, and look puzzles that involve utilising that time and space fuckery. Genius stuff indeed.
What I really don't like is how gamers are pigeonholed. Know what I mean? - if we like COD, then we hate Battlefield3, we hate Skyrim, we hate everything that isn't COD. If we like one genre, we aren't supposed to like other genres - because that simply makes marketting's life more difficult. No, we should all just like the same games, as a stretch we can either like action games, or adventure games, but not both, because gamers are herp-derp-full-retard right?
I don't know any gamers who only like one genre, if I did, I probably couldn't relate to them. Recently I mostly play Skyrim, Battlefield3, and Torchlight, and pretty much every genre of videogame there is when the fancy takes me. We don't all focus on one game, or one genre - just like we don't focus on one genre of movie.
Frankly, we all probably have more defined and varied personalities and tastes than Blow, the guy is a developer yet can't see gamers as anything more than mindless, unless of course they think Braid is art, then they can stay. Being a moderate success does not qualify you to pass judgment on a whole industry, wind the neck in and maybe consider thinking about making another bloody game. Since Braid, I've written 3 games on top of a full time job - got any gleaming nuggets of diet-genius for me?, come at me Blow! I have more respect for developers who produce results, or I should say, can't help but share the ideas they have. Most developers have dozens of different ideas for games, spanning different or unique genres - maybe the inflection of what Blow has done with the last 6 years is hitting home, maybe Blow should shut up and get back to 'work' on his predictably 'artsy platform game'. Really I don't know what he's working on, I'll go check, and if it's not an artsy plaform game I'll eat my own face.
EDIT: Nom. It's not an artsy platform game, silly me. It's an artsy, wander around in 3D game where you have to sit and brood over everything the game is making you feel as you make excuses for it when people ask what the hell your playing.
Why is it that guys with 1, and i repeat, 1 game under their belt that happens to be critically acclaimed thinks they can be smug towards an entire industry? First Tyrone Rodriguez calling Hideo Kojima a shitty dev, now Jon Blow being the millionth person to hate on action games.
We need more devs like Brian Fargo. Devs that support each others' games instead of making one, and then bitching.
The whole problem with this is that he is only giving his opinion and he acts as if that is something special. I think all opinions are valid to an extent, but how often do we have to listen to indie game developers give their assessment of the "broken" system. The problem is that for some reason their opinion is more valid than the average persons.
Because making an indie 2d platformer with a gimmick is SOOOOOO ORIGINAL and makes you the DaVinci of gaming (/sarcasm). I liked Braid, and I understand the problem with mainstream gaming these days, but Blow is far, FAR too pretentious about these issues. He needs to learn that gaming is never going to be exactly what he wants it to be, simply because it's his own opinion, and not everyone agrees. There will always be a place for movie-style action games, just as there will always be a place for "art" style games, just as there will be a place for deeper complex logical games, etc etc etc.
Not to mention the massive irony in him criticizing mainstream gaming while making millions from XBOX LIVE, part of a corporation that fosters these kind of movie action games, that makes you pay for online use where it is free in ALL other venues.
People like Blow are the very reason why so many gamers are against "art games". Because they come off as extremely pretentious and dismissing of everything that isn't an indie platformer with a terrible try-hard story.
To be honest I am unsure how to judge Blow because this article has paints him as an outright asshole undeserving of his status. This all may be terribly out of context and heavily edited, which would be unfortunate, but i'm sure Blow had a say in the article and what went in it.
ManThatYouFear: I like the people defending the shitty action movie game he attacks, why are people so eager to start on forums "chocolate sauce is shit" "OMFG YOU PIECE OF SHIT FUCKING DIE YOU NO IDEA WHAT YOU ON ABOUT YOU FUCKING NOOB!"
It's because people in general do not like the things they are interested in or care about, being attacked. Every human does it to some extent. IF you don't care about action movies then you don't care if he dislikes it. If you like the movie, it now becomes an attack on your personal taste. The funniest bit is that no one is comparing Bad Boys 2 to Citizen Kane but him. No one is under any delusion that they even comparable movies. And no one but Blow seem to think that there is a choice in the matter. As if only one can exist.
The Atlantic article actually trashes Skyrim just as much as COD:
"THERE'S NO NICE way to say this, but it needs to be said: video games, with very few exceptions, are dumb. And they're not just dumb in the gleeful, winking way that a big Hollywood movie is dumb; they're dumb in the puerile, excruciatingly serious way that a grown man in latex elf ears reciting an epic poem about Gandalf is dumb. Aside from a handful of truly smart games, tentpole titles like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Call of Duty: Black Ops tend to be so silly and so poorly written that they make Michael Bay movies look like the Godfather series."
There's so much anti-gaming sentiment in the article, it feels like it was written 20 years ago.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film. If you had to put up 50 million of your own money where are you going to put it? There are indie films and indie games but they are never going to be the mainstream. Sure there is going to be a breakout hit now then, but by and large its only ever going to be a niche product.
What the gaming industry is lacking is a golden era like the 70s for moives. There are no gaming equivalents of the Godfarther or Taxi Driver. Stories with enough sex and violence to keep the blockbuster crew happy and enough character and emotions to appeal to the indie crowd.
Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
I'm sorry, the creator of 'Mario of Persia' is ragging on people for not being innovative enough?
Not that I disliked braid, it was just hardly 'the sole beacon of intelligent gaming in an ocean of mindless shooter sludge'. Bastion was a million times more enjoyable and interesting.
Anyone that calls their game an "Art Game" deserves a kick to the nadgers. Your game has to earn that title. It's like saying that your game is in the "Good Game" genre.
I'd rather play CoD or Halo than Braid any day. I play games to have fun, not to wank over "art".
scotth266: This comes from a guy whose only game was kind of mediocre.
No way, man, Blow is a genius! His vague narrative is brilliant because I don't understand it, and his downer storytelling is good because downer beats happy and is artistic and stuff! And time mechanics! He has a different one for each world! Genius!
I wonder if he's aware that film did get where it was by trying to be theater.
a decent action game lets me actually have some fun
a shitty action movie has a few explosions....
also action does not= shit
Agreed, though for me I want to see more Terminator/Terminator 2/Aliens-era James Cameron action instead of Michael Bay action. Action is complimented by a good script, intelligent direction and likable characters.
Sadly, a smug prick with a point, still has a point. I really wouldn't mind gaming trying to really push its interactivity a bit. In fact one of my favourite games for this was Heavy Rain. The controls are over complex for basic movement, but when I did my first fight scene having to move the controller, manipulate different buttons and the analogue sticks at the same time to get the character to fight, the tension ramped right the fuck up; it almost felt like QTE's done right or something.
However I wouldn't mind knowing exactly what these innovations could be: I'm no expert, but I'm not convinced we've hit the wall with gaming and its new ways of entertaining and immersing us just yet.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film. If you had to put up 50 million of your own money where are you going to put it? There are indie films and indie games but they are never going to be the mainstream. Sure there is going to be a breakout hit now then, but by and large its only ever going to be a niche product.
What the gaming industry is lacking is a golden era like the 70s for moives. There are no gaming equivalents of the Godfarther or Taxi Driver. Stories with enough sex and violence to keep the blockbuster crew happy and enough character and emotions to appeal to the indie crowd.
Hi, God of War. Hi, GTA IV. Hi, Mass Effect.
Oh, sorry, what was I thinking, these games have been disowned art credibility because the lead in one is an asshole (because Travis Bickle was so likeable), the game is not as zany as ypou want in another (because the Godfather was a laugh a minute) and the third decided to strip out boring crap while keeping the human emotion strong.
Hi Metal Gear Solid 4. Hi Assassins Creed. Hi Skyrim. Hi Deus Ex Human Revolution. Hi endless list I could keep going on with id you want me to, but I believe I made my point.
We're in the fucking golden era. Unfortunately, assholes like Blow prefer to focus on the negatives, be hyperbolic, and then crown himself the genius savior, because he has a massive ego and a messiah complex.
For a start lets add the last 2 sentences from my post Now I'm sure theres going to half dozen posts saying that this games has a great story or that game, but lets be truthful they aren't. Most games plots are rather clichéd and run along the rails of expectation. I'm not saying they are bad and I don't enjoy them, I'm just saying they are not great.
As I predicted, some comes along with long list of titles without reading what I wrote. Every single game you list has bog standard plot that has been in films for decades. Even Assassins Creed has a long DNA in movies, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Foxes_%28film%29 and say there is no similarities. Deus Ex Human Revolution is rehash of the 1st game which in turn was William Gibson crossed with Escape from New York and Escape from LA. One of the endings in Deus Ex is identical to the ending of Escape from LA. As for God of War there are half dozen films with similar plots. The Italians produced a load in the 60s of sword and sandals verity before changing to make westerns.
a decent action game lets me actually have some fun
a shitty action movie has a few explosions....
also action does not= shit
Agreed, though for me I want to see more Terminator/Terminator 2/Aliens-era James Cameron action instead of Michael Bay action. Action is complimented by a good script, intelligent direction and likable characters.
.
thats exactally what I ment
films like that..and dark knight and inception have action but are also great films in their own right
For a start lets add the last 2 sentences from my post Now I'm sure theres going to half dozen posts saying that this games has a great story or that game, but lets be truthful they aren't. Most games plots are rather clichéd and run along the rails of expectation. I'm not saying they are bad and I don't enjoy them, I'm just saying they are not great.
As I predicted, some comes along with long list of titles without reading what I wrote. Every single game you list has bog standard plot that has been in films for decades. Even Assassins Creed has a long DNA in movies, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Foxes_%28film%29 and say there is no similarities. Deus Ex Human Revolution is rehash of the 1st game which in turn was William Gibson crossed with Escape from New York and Escape from LA. One of the endings in Deus Ex is identical to the ending of Escape from LA. As for God of War there are half dozen films with similar plots. The Italians produced a load in the 60s of sword and sandals verity before changing to make westerns.
not saying you (or the guy in the article) doesnt have a point
but I think your being a bit harsh in terms of originality...nothing is orignal, to me its less about originality and more about how well its done
now granted games havnt reached that certain "level" but personally the best of what weve seen games do will always trump some shitty action movie (you know..micheal bay fair)
scotth266: This comes from a guy whose only game was kind of mediocre.
No way, man, Blow is a genius! His vague narrative is brilliant because I don't understand it, and his downer storytelling is good because downer beats happy and is artistic and stuff! And time mechanics! He has a different one for each world! Genius!
I wonder if he's aware that film did get where it was by trying to be theater.
yes..the more depressed somthing makes you the more BEAUTIFUL AND ARTISTIC IT IS
and if its somthing you can understand ,then what is this? fucking kindergarten? true art is incomprehensible motherfuckers!
hahaha joking aside, while bleak sad endings can be powerful, a happy ending does not make it less "deep" somtimes its nice to feel uplifted and empowered..rather than depressed and confused
I'll freely admit that I didn't get much out of playing Braid, but I like the man & his ideas. I really wish they'd finally make a serious effort at procedurally generated story-telling...
Okay, having read the article here, I thought of Blow as some asshat, trying to validate himself by comparing his game to Citizan Kane, and other games to shitty Bay action movies. Having read about half of the article linked (I couldnt finish it due to the smell of shit), I now thinking its largely a equal distribution of asshat between Blow and Clark.
I cant find anybody in my circle of friends or family that care for Citizan Kane. I myself can see whats made it so amazing, but that doesnt mean I enjoyed it. Games are just like movies in one very particular aspect: People will like what they like. As much as I hate various aspects of COD, those games sell because there are people that like them. I liked Alpha Protocol and by most accounts, that game was pretty shitty.
People may make games like Dear Esther, Braid, and others, but just because they are "more artistic" than games like COD or GOW doesnt mean they're better.
Sounds like he has some serious entitlement issues when it comes to his entertainment. I feel sorry for him that he can't take in the simple pleasures in life.
Some of the people in this thread make me want to tear my eyes out.
Anyway, to my mind, gaming took a wrong turn after Deus Ex was released and everyone went, "nope, that's not making the best use of the medium; people want more limits, not anything reactionary".
Thankfully, it would seem that we are ever so slightly trending back towards that method of design, but I do wonder where we'd be now if we hadn't pretty much abandoned it for 10 years.
What the guy's talking about (based on the two quotes the Escapist's picked out) is making sure that game developers understand the medium's inherent strengths and weaknesses (which many don't), and by extension I'd add that many gamers don't know the inherent strengths of the medium because they're very rarely shown them.
albino boo: The big problem is that gamers, like movie goers, prefer action moives and shooters rather than Citizen Cain. For every one person who watches a Visconti film there a 1000 that watch a Michel Bay film.
Not arguing with you, but picking up a point here. This is not about Citizen Kane vs. Transformers. This is about the necessity that game creators fucking understand the inherent strengths and possibilties (and weaknesses) of the medium/the artform they're working with.
I like action games, I like to shoot stuff. Very much so. But I'm seeing a development where, yes, I more and more have to watch a shitty action movie story that just happens to have inter-, uh, re- active(?) shooting galleries in between.
_____
I remember the first Call of Duty where... ...there is a point during the Russian campaign where you singlehandedly had to defat a whole enemy platoon from advancing. And the game left you choices to do so. You had the freedom to try out stuff, to look for the sweet spot that would give a tactical advantage.
Nowadays... ... in every freaking encounter you are only allowed to precisely follow the instructions the director is giving you. Go to X, hold out for 5 minutes and/or 25 enemies. Proceed, rinse and repeat. I remember this scene(!) in Black Ops, where for 10-15 minutes the only thing that you are playing/controlling is your character's head. And even here the game fucking takes control to make sure you stare at the butt of that pretty secretary passing you in Pentagon's hallway. wtf.
As so often, there's a video for 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
And this complete neglect of what an interactive medium/artform can and imho should be about is indeed quote troubling unquote.
...speaking of Citizen Kane. (And I mean that .gif in the "bravo, well done!" sense it's used on the internets for as opposed to it's original context in the movie.)
Emiscary: I'll freely admit that I didn't get much out of playing Braid, but I like the man & his ideas. I really wish they'd finally make a serious effort at procedurally generated story-telling...
Crusader Kings II apparently does a good job at it - it's on the top of my "games to play once I have enough time for a slow-burn strategy game" list.
Also, check this out. It's probably overambitious, but it might also be insane genius of the Nikola Tesla variety. If it accomplishes 10% of it's design goals, it will be incredibly epic.
It seems that indie developers are becoming as formulaic as the stereotypes they tell about major studio's. If they're not just making a bad game and justifying it by saying "its different" (The Path, Dear Esther), its another platformer that evokes the fragility of childhood or some such shit.
First indie game I've ever seen that actually looked to be making a legit point on childhood is Papa and Yo. Big shocker, thats the only one thats not actually independent.
In fact, most of the genuinely good ideas coming from smaller studios these days are the ones coming from studios backed by major publishers. Journey, I am Alive, Papa and Yo, etc.