Atari Founder Warns Nintendo May be on The Way Out

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WeepingAngels:

gmaverick019:

WeepingAngels:

Age of Empires Online was awful because they took the franchise from being an RTS franchise to a quest based MMO. Those changes were made because it was an MMO and at first it didn't even contain Skirmish mode.

I imagine a Pokemon MMO would make the same mistakes. After all, if they kept the same gameplay with the optional online matches, then it would be no different than a standard Pokemon game.

yeah it was definitely a bad combination, and they did it in a horribly lacking way.

as i mentioned, this has been tried plenty of times before, and nintendo force chokes every dev that tries to do it, but it has been proven to work and plenty of people were interested in it/playing them when they were out for their brief time.

here is a youtube video to show one of the many off:

listen, i don't want to play a pokemon mmo, and it is quite clear that you don't want one either, but there is evidence of it working before gamefreak even touches the damn games, so quite clearly there is a market for it.

..but is the market big enough to justify it? I mean buying a Pokemon game for $35-$40 is one thing, paying a monthly fee is another.

just on the wiiU? probably not, mmo lovers typically are on the pc, i was just stating the evidence that the game does work and has worked, feeless obviously, they weren't going to be able to charge for an IP they didn't own the rights to.

actually just came across this...apparently this mmo is still up and running just fine, here you go if you want to see for yourself:

http://pokemmo.eu/downloads/

free to play and seems that there is over 5500 threads in that websites forum alone, i would say that's pretty damn active.

Stealth:
""I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore. Not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet."

I dont think those devices make sense for gaming. And the fact that 3ds has been outselling everything for 2 years. Sort of proves that huh?

Then again, this is the man that said lynx would outsell gameboy.

The bottom line is hes a bitter old man who has no relevance in the game industry, drove atari into the dirt, hated Nintendo since day one and is jealous

3ds? outselling Iphones, Ipads, and smartphones and tablets? Outselling "everything?"

Hahaha. Oh wait you're serious.

73.5 million Iphones sold in 2010. Alone. How could the 3ds even compete with that?

The 3ds is irrelevant compared to the smart phone explosion. Apple killed handheld gaming whether you like it or not. If Nolan is a bitter out of touch old man, he'd be in very good company at Nintendo.

Stealth20k:

WeepingAngels:

Stealth:
""I don't think handheld game-only devices make sense anymore. Not when you have an iPod or an Android microtablet."

I dont think those devices make sense for gaming. And the fact that 3ds has been outselling everything for 2 years. Sort of proves that huh?

I love my 3DS and my Vita but I never see any out in the wild. I see plenty of people playing games on their tablets. So I would say that they must make sense for gaming...

I guess I need to get one sooner or later.

I see 3ds's all the time.

Considering this is the same man who said lynx would outsell gameboy. Why is he given a forum to speak?

LOL, someone says something that turns out to be false and they can no longer be trusted to speak? You could probably make a shorter list of people who are still allowed to speak than those who aren't.

I am glad you see 3D's all the time, I never do.

gmaverick019:

pokemon is a bit different compared to skyrim or kotor, those were EXTREME single player based games in every sense of the word, while pokemon has always had the concept of trading and battling with friends via cable or online, and all you have to do is check out a few pokemon threads to see how insanely similar/crazy the meta-gamers are compared to some mmo'ers. (not to mention how many times nintendo has had to shut down pokemon mmo's that were made by fans, they'd gain insane popularity and nintendo would QQ about it hard)

This right here.

And you cannot compare shitty conventional mmo games to what pokemon could become if they ever took full advantage of the IP.

Hell if it offends people so much, remove the word 'mmo entirely'. Some sort of 3D pokemon game with co-op and competitive online multiplayer elements. Won't matter how they do it, will sell like hotcakes.

I mean look at the single player games. You cannot tell me they are 'great' games. It's the concept and the collecting and battling that is what keep people coming back. Otherwise they've been making the same game year after year with slight visual enhancements along the way. Isn't much to 'stuff up'.

Ah crud double post. But yeah, ignoring all that, nintendo is going nowhere any time soon. They have many different cards up their sleeve that could pay off in a big way if they so chose.

WeepingAngels:

Stealth20k:

WeepingAngels:

I love my 3DS and my Vita but I never see any out in the wild. I see plenty of people playing games on their tablets. So I would say that they must make sense for gaming...

I guess I need to get one sooner or later.

I see 3ds's all the time.

Considering this is the same man who said lynx would outsell gameboy. Why is he given a forum to speak?

LOL, someone says something that turns out to be false and they can no longer be trusted to speak? You could probably make a shorter list of people who are still allowed to speak than those who aren't.

I am glad you see 3D's all the time, I never do.

He shouldnt be trusted because he doesnt know anything about gaming........and when you have no accomplishments other than failure to speak of and your throwing stones?

How many times has this guy predicted that Nintendo will go under? I guess he believes that if he says it enough the fabric of reality will alter and it will come to pass.

Stealth20k:

WeepingAngels:

Stealth20k:

I see 3ds's all the time.

Considering this is the same man who said lynx would outsell gameboy. Why is he given a forum to speak?

LOL, someone says something that turns out to be false and they can no longer be trusted to speak? You could probably make a shorter list of people who are still allowed to speak than those who aren't.

I am glad you see 3D's all the time, I never do.

He shouldnt be trusted because he doesnt know anything about gaming........and when you have no accomplishments other than failure to speak of and your throwing stones?

Dude, come on. Even you have to know how ridiculous that sounds. Nolan Bushnell is one of the most important figures in gaming history. Show a little respect.

'Nintendo may be on the way out'

Meanwhile they're making money.

Excuse me while I laugh.

ClockworkUniverse:
Haven't they allegedly been on the way out since the Gamecube era or the Wii era, depending on who you ask?

I mean, I know they aren't exactly dominating the market, but if they're on the way out, they're walking VERY slowly.

Of course, he's talking the path to irrelevance, which is still quite viable.

WeepingAngels:

I bet some people were calling an end to Hostess years before it happened. Were they wrong?

No, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Hostess had had serious fiscal trouble for well over a decade. Nintendo's holdings indicate they have not. Hostess even filed for bankruptcy. Nintendo has not. Hostess had a storied history and trouble covering its costs. Nintendo won't have that issue for years or even decades.

Nintendo may fail one day. It may come to pass. But there's a world of difference between people predicting the end of the Twinkie and the death of Mario.

WeepingAngels:

That's all? Let them just stop development on everything else and make an MMO from a single player franchise. Tell me, how often does it work out when publishers turn a single player franchise into an MMO?

How many of the franchises used were ones where people clammored for an MMO like people have done with Pokémon? Your own examples rely on ones people didn't want.

WeepingAngels:
bet some people were calling an end to Hostess years before it happened. Were they wrong?

No. But then, they had actual reasons to think that. Really, the worst thing you can say about Nintendo financially is that their 124-year history now includes a year in which they didn't report a profit, and that their recent console launches have acted like every other non-Wii console launch.

Zachary Amaranth:
Of course, he's talking the path to irrelevance, which is still quite viable.

True. But they're still popular with the kids, who are their main demographic. Increasing fragmentation between them and the rest of the AAA game industry is virtually guaranteed at this point, but then, a lot of the rest of them appear to be shitting themselves at the moment. Things are kind of crazy across the board in this medium right now.

Gearhead mk2:
No offence, but I'm not gonna trust the word of a guy who's company's last big contribution to gaming was ET.

He left the company before that happened.

People saying Nintendo won't last long is just like people saying the world was going to end in 2012...

Last time I checked, it was 2013...

Stealth20k:

WeepingAngels:

Stealth20k:

I see 3ds's all the time.

Considering this is the same man who said lynx would outsell gameboy. Why is he given a forum to speak?

LOL, someone says something that turns out to be false and they can no longer be trusted to speak? You could probably make a shorter list of people who are still allowed to speak than those who aren't.

I am glad you see 3D's all the time, I never do.

He shouldnt be trusted because he doesnt know anything about gaming........and when you have no accomplishments other than failure to speak of and your throwing stones?

> Became the fastest growing business in history in 1982.
>> Was a major player in the console market with multiple consoles, was a well known household name.
>>> Made Pong.
>>>> responsible for the formation of Video Arcades and the modern video game industry.

No achievements? Really? At least know your fucking history before you mouth off on a well known gaming figurehead. Especially from the very early days of gaming.

Gearhead mk2:
No offence, but I'm not gonna trust the word of a guy who's company's last big contribution to gaming was ET.

It takes one to know one. :)

Seriously though, no reason to discount the guy. He has been there and seen it all. He should be able to recognize a company in trouble given his experience with his own company that went down the tubes.

Nintendo's never going to die, they have many of gaming's most iconic franchises in their pocket and they barely even have any competition anymore.

I suppose if an asteroid struck earth and wiped out humanity it might kill Nintendo, but that kind of stuff doesn't happen often.

Id love it if they got out of the console business and made multi platform games

Wait what? There are 'industry analysts' that are drawing comparisons between the Wii U and the Atari ****ing Jaguar? A machine that was launched late in the 2nd gen cycle designed to compete with the Snes and Genesis, had no significant IP's and sold under 250,000 units, and would be get completely crushed by the launch of the 3rd gen machines N64/Saturn/PS1 a year later?

I suppose you could make some very loose comparisons in that both machines were launched a year before more powerful machines, you just have to over look those other points like not only were there no games but Atari didn't even hold any valuable IP's (I mean even the Turbo Graphix 16 had Bonk) and sold under 250,000 units. Oh and this was also a company that had completely crashed and burned a decade ago and hadn't been a factor in the console business in ages.

Seriously people really need to stop with this sensationalist alarmism concerning Nintendo. Yes the games haven't come out as soon as expected and people have obviously been holding back from buying it yet, but Mario and Link and all the rest are going to get there eventual. Save the planning for Nintendo's funeral if these games come out and the Wii-U still isn't selling. Or I should say save the planning for the Wii-U's funeral, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread Nintendo will be around for a long time.

I find his analysis very pertinent and likely and I like the guy.

In fact I've been saying similar things since before the console even came out since it seemed rather obvious that it'll fail: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.377960-Will-the-Wii-U-fail-horribly

Steven Bogos:
Bushnell went on to say that of all the new inventions he's seen in modern gaming, what excites him the most is the Occulus Rift, although he does still remain a little skeptic about it. "The problem with virtual reality has always been motion sickness," he said. "If they're able to really get the reality and the image right, with low latency, I think they'll get it.

Why do people keep writing "Occulus" when it is "Oculus"?

Yippy, another Wii U doom piece. Like there aren't a million of these floating around.

I wish I had more (or something useful) to say on the subject other than that, but I don't really. By this point, Nintendo is painted as an island for niche games and Nintendo titles. I'm not sure that's a bad thing though, since I get the feeling that will be the system's best games anyway. I mean, who buys Nintendo systems for CoD?

In the meantime, I'll just wait for my copy of W101 and enjoy my supposedly dying console from a company that's been "on the way out" sine the Gamecube era.

Bluntly, if Bushnell was an accurate prognosticator, he'd still be with Atari- and Atari would be a functional player in the industry rather than a repeatedly resuscitated brand name.

The day Nintendo go will be a dark day indeed! The distinctive lack of innovation in gaming nowadays I put squarely down to the loss of Sega (and Atari to a small extent) leaving the hardware market. Now its just Nintendo. Say what you want about the Wii & the Wii U but at least Nintendo are still giving us new ways to play games. Sony with the Vita has done some interesting things with handheld play, but considering they've used the same controller for 20 years with the biggest innovation being a "share" button it's disheartening.

Sony & Microsoft have the majority of their income come from their primary businesses, whereas Nintendo is the last game only company left still making games and consoles. If god forbid something happened to create another game crash, Sony & Ms would leave in a heartbeatm, leaving Nintendo left.

I know I'm sounding like a Nintendo fanboy but from a gamer's perspective and someone who has played & loved computer games for 22 years there seems to be an increasing trend of contempt and stagnation in terms of creativity. This inlcudes Nintendo who REALLY need to get some new IPs out.
At least the indie scene is keeping cretivity in games going. alot of the games I saw from PAX look like great fun!

ClockworkUniverse:
Haven't they allegedly been on the way out since the Gamecube era or the Wii era, depending on who you ask?

I mean, I know they aren't exactly dominating the market, but if they're on the way out, they're walking VERY slowly.

Nintendo is dying in the exact same way that 5 years ago PC gaming was about to completely collapse for some unspecified reason.

I seriously doubt this is going to happen anytime soon.

Not because of Nintendo's "competence" or anything, but because of the unconditionally loyal legion of fanboys and fangirls they seem to have. (Seriously, die hard Nintendo fans are probably the scariest of them all.)

Nintendo will never die. The most that will happen is it will go the way of sega. They will ditch hardware, maybe stick to handhelds and many release games on both MS/Sony platforms. I tell you, if they released Zelda or Pokemon with hi res graphics on XB1 and PS4 - they would make a fortune.

TheEvilCheese:

TheProfessor234:
With all the Nintendoom going around these days, I actually do wonder how long it would take Nintendo to go under if they just stopped making games and lived off their current reserves.

A quote from last year.

"Buried in reams of financial data is the revelation that Nintendo have 812.8 billion Yen (Ł6.7/$10.5 billion) in the bank - enough for it to take a 20 billion Yen loss (Ł163/$257 million) every year until 2052. Then there's almost 469 billion Yen (Ł3.8/$6.0 billion) held in premises, equipment and investments. When that runs out - we're in the year 2075 by this point - they've got some of the most valuable intellectual property in gaming to sell off before the company goes out of business."

http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-doomed-not-likely-just-take-look-how-much-money-its-got-bank/

In short, not any time soon.

--

OT: As long as Mario, Zelda and Pokémon exist. Nintendo shall too. They could drop home consoles and afford to make handhelds based on the income of their first party titles alone. I'm pretty sure the pokémon brand is worth tens of billions of dollars.

That was last year as of 30th june 2013 total assets of Nintendo are $14 billion with $5 billion of it being cash. Using todays's exchange rates they have lost $3 billion in cash over the last 2 years with non cash assets staying the same.

Anyway the Nintendo are doomed articles to me always seem to refer mostly to the home console market more than the overall business.

Also Zelda is not one of Nintendo's big franchise's any more and hasn;t been for a while.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword hast even sold 4 million copies on an install base of a 100 million Wii's.

While the best selling Zelda game Ocarina of Time sold 7.6 million on the N64 with an install base of only 32 million.

WiiU won't get decent sales till Mario Kart and Smash Bros are released next year.

WeepingAngels:

ron1n:
Wii U Pokemon MMO. That is all.

That's all? Let them just stop development on everything else and make an MMO from a single player franchise. Tell me, how often does it work out when publishers turn a single player franchise into an MMO?

Companies with better online infrastructures no les. Nintendos on the Wii was an absolute joke compared to their competition.

Don't know how they've improved it since then, but then I don't have high expectations. Nintendo are like my grandparents trying to set up Wi-fi, it doesn't end well.

I could see Nintendo focusing more on handhelds and 3rd party publishing in future. But they won't be vanishing anytime soon. Just look at Sega. Yes, they still exist.

Wii U is one failed console, its hardly a sign of times to come. Not to mention its extremely early in the next-gen console era; there is still time for things to turn around for Ninty, and the current issues with the Wii U (primarily a lack of games) is not something that can't be fixed.

Furthermore, Nintendo is still making profits from the 3DS.

klaynexas3:
Atari had a few more failing consoles than just one, so to compare Nintendo's first failing.....

image

its easy to forget..

Well, if anyone knows about fading into irrelevance, it's certainly someone from Atari!

He might have a point though, at least when it comes to a gamer viewpoint. While I don't think they'll ever fade into complete irrelevance, just by virtue of the various core IP they have (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon etc), you can see that fewer and fewer "hardcore" gamers seem to care about Nintendo, at least when it comes to home consoles.

We get it Bushnell.

Your still pissed that Nintendo booted you off the gaming crown all those years ago.

It's not like your predicted this two generations ago and were proven wrong.

Time to move on dude.
No sense wasting your time on bad blood.

ron1n:
Wii U Pokemon MMO. That is all.

No No No. WiiU Pokemon WRPG With MMO Elements (Trading Servers and Online Battles).

OT: Mr. Bushnell isn't exactly the most knowledgeable person when it comes to running a Company. Not only did Atari end up floundering under this guys rule, he also lead another company to Bankruptcy, that was then bought by it's main competitor, and they would form "Chuck E. Cheese" without Bushnell. So I wouldn't trust what he has to say with regards to running a Corporation. And Nintendo certainly won't fade into Obscurity anytime soon.

Nintendo will be fine. The 3DS is selling well, and when a Zelda, Mario (proper one like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy etc.) or Metroid game is out the Wii U will definetly rise in sales. The Wii U might also look good when the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4 have their inevitable faults, glitches and what not upon release combined with it's much lower price.

It seems that the more bile people throw at Nintendo, the stronger they become. People bashed the DS and it became the best-selling system of all time. They bashed the Wii and it STEAMROLLED the PS3 and 360 whose company suffered huge losses in that gen. People were certain that the 3DS was going to be the flop that brought Nintendo down and now it's the best-selling system around. You'd think after three times of humiliating these idiots that said idiots would keep their mouths shut, but they still stamp their feet and claim Nintendo is somehow becoming irrelevant despite evidence showing otherwise. At this rate the only way Nintendo is going to be free from these silly claims is if Sony or MS gets out of the gaming business. And considering how both of them have been bleeding money as of late, that's definitely a lot more likely than Nintendo folding.

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