Miyamoto Refocusing on Hardcore; Casual Gamers' Passive Attitude "Pathetic"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

Shamanic Rhythm:
That headline is incredibly misleading. Nowhere does Miyamoto say anything about 'casuals', just gamers who expect the game to be driving the entertainment as opposed to gamers who use the game to create challenge for themselves.

i.e. the difference between a game truly letting you have some agency (like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Fire Emblem, etc) and one where you wonder why you're even there (like Call of Duty, or Beyond: Two Souls). Funny thing is a lot of "core" games are doing that for the sake of "story" reasons.

Karadalis:
Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

Is it bad to "go where the money is"? Is this explanation that we've accepted "BS"?

Entities (Miyamoto, Nintendo, whoever) make mistakes. They can admit their missteps or fail to learn from the past. They can desire to make a mutually beneficial future, or a dominant future, or an apathetic future for their decisions regarding others. Miyamoto is admitting his company's failed expectations. Now he wants Nintendo to improve, and probably wants it to improve our gaming experiences.

Here's to a prosperous future for the gaming industry.

KingsGambit:
So is this guy particularly famous in the industry or something? I mean how much do the words of some unknown guy really matter? Let's be honest here, he's no Phil Fish.

Oh no, this guy isn't important at all. He simply made Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros, Legend Of Zelda, Star Fox, the Yoshi Series, Pikmin, the Wii Series, and helped design every Nintendo Home console in one way or another (Such as the N64 and Wii Controllers). (If this is Sarcasm, I'm sorry for not picking it up)

OT: I will admit, it is a bit hypocritical for Miyamoto to say this, especially since he helped make the Wii and the Wii Series. However, I view this more as a positive thing; the WiiU has definitely been much better then the Wii (to me) when it came to usage and gameplay, and it seems like the WiiU is going to just get better and better.

Hopefully Nintendo will continue back to the path of "Fun Games for Gamers" and not the path of "Fun Games for Casuals".

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

It's not like Nintendo ever changed their philosophy in game design anyway. The games they made now has been the same games they made since they first started for the most part. This whole mentality between hardcore and "casuals" started because of the Wii anyway. Then again- Nintendo always changed up their gaming peripherals. Only this time around "hrdc0r3" gamers felt "burned" by the Wii U like garlic to a vampire and proclaimed that Nintendo ditched "tru gamers" for the casuals. Even though most of the people making shovel ware crap were companies like Chipotle.

They've booked the casual market quite well. If 3DS sales are anything to go by. And besides, it's not like any attempts to appeal to the "hrdc0r3" gaming populace worked anyway. Not since the Gamecube era.

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained?

Oh sure. However it doesn't do us any favors at all. Especially if we are trying to push the medium into being a widely accepted art form.

Mindless product meant to "entertain" and nothing more tends to not fall into that category.

KingsGambit:
So is this guy particularly famous in the industry or something? I mean how much do the words of some unknown guy really matter? Let's be honest here, he's no Phil Fish.

Sorry dude. Miyamoto is a whole lot bigger than Phil Fish.

Phil Fish made one game that had a cool mechanic, nice art direction, and bugs up the ass.

Miyamto practically defined how gaming was and would grow out of (in terms of platformers) in the early days of the revival of videogames.

He also isn't an assbaby like Phil Fish.

Whenever Miyamoto says anything it's more than likely a huge deal.

Esmeralda Portillo:
-[/snip]

Blah... I hate how alienating it sounds to call casuals "pathetic". Everyone has their own opinion of what it means to be hardcore, and what it means to be casual. There's always room for both in the table, and I'd wish that gaming companies would realize this. Casual gamers are the sort of gamers that are satisfied with games that don't require complicated thinking, or feeling that they need to fixate on the game in question in order to truly appreciate it.

Pokemon is a perfect example of a game that caters to both casual and hardcore gamers. One side can appreciate aesthetics, getting into the atmospheric qualities of a game rather than the technical bits, and simply enjoy it as if it's an alternate world of our own. Immersion, you know what I mean? At the same time, hardcore gamers can appreciate the technical aspects of the game, EV training, IV training, and so on.

It's not saying that there's not hardcore gamers that do have casual tendencies, and the reverse is true about casuals with hardcore tendencies. It's a general term that can have many applications to it depending on how you view it. I really wish that he would understand that, and that it's not bad to be a casual gamer. :T It's not bad to be a hardcore on either, both have their positives in them, and it's always nice to understand that gamers come in all types.

I'm probably speaking in circles, but that's what I believe.

"Come on Nintendo, stop trying to sell to casuals, we will give you our money if you made hardcore games again. Stop with the shovelware can you do anything right?"

Nintendo:"We have decided to focus on the hardcore market again because we no longer see the need to try and appeal to casual gamers."

"Oh, puh-leaze, you're just saying that cause you want my money. Can you do anything right?"

This seems to be the general reaction people have had with Nintendo. Piss gamers off once....and your fucked for life it seems.

Aiddon:
Why would anyone want to actively focus on the "hardcore" again? If there is one thing I've learned over my entire lifetime of gaming it's this: the hardcore are not loyal, grateful, or charitable. Why would you want to be tied down to an audience like that, especially when there's little room for them to grow? The NES, SNES, Game Boy, GBA, PS1, PS2, 360, PS3, DS, Wii, and 3DS did not succeed because of "core" gamers, we are not that numerous enough to do that. No, it's always been the broader audience that has brought in the money and if they truly have all moved on to mobile games, that's not good for console or handheld gaming, which includes EVERYBODY.

And I thought people would realize that by now; after decades you'd think they would have understood that gaming is going to outgrow the gamer culture if that makes any sense and that means new people are going to go in. Heck, Pong was first distributed to bars, not exactly the go-to spot when thinking of stereotypical gaming culture. You'd think gamers would be HAPPY about people understanding their love for the medium and getting into it. I am shocked by how many people are still SEETHING over Nintendo attempting to give the gaming population a much-needed booster shot, unaware that they STILL MADE EVERYTHING THEY MADE BEFORE. We still got Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Pokemon, and Kirby it's just that they made a lot of other stuff that we had to share space with. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Well from a financial perspective the casual market is large, but also undevoted. This means that no, they won't bu the new Mario game just because it's the new Mario game, and won't buy dedicated gaming hardware to do what their tablet does with games that are cheaper, if not free. The wii was a noble effort to say every casual is just a more hardcore gamer that just needs exposure, but sadly that theory fell flat. You need a lot of people that only buy the $3 hot app game to match someone like me, something like $1500 spent this year and it's only August.

But then again, his tone makes me think it's also about values. He gave people an entry drug and showed them the rest of the world. Enjoy wii sports? Good, now how yould you like to go on a grand adventure in Hyrule? no, you want to stick with Wii sports. Okay, about a dark mission as an Armored bounty hunter? no again. More wii sports huh? We all know these people in various facets in life: they won't try a new restaurant, or a new book series. Moreover, they won't try a books that looks bigger and more difficult than they're used to. They won't ry cooking a new recipe that looks too complicated, or take on a new job they might fail at. Hardcore gamers, try new games and genres, and can follow up by trying to beat the game, master it, and then break it. His comment comes off like someone that would say "I never programed Zelda thinking someone would beat it without the sword, but people have and I'm damned impressed by that."

As I share the value, I can understand why someone might want to say that if you're the kind of person that won't try something new, or face a bit of difficulty, or otherwise don't want to leave your comfort zone, you aren't the type of people I want to program for.

Karadalis:

weirdee:

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

I bet you believed Sony when they said they had changed from the PS3 days.

Straw man much?

Where did i mentioned sony?

Back when the Wii came out nintendo made it very clear that their long time fanbase and hardcore gamers are "not their market" anymore and that they would focus on casual gaming because it was so new and fresh and could reach so many more people... like all those commercials where the whole family plays? Yeah thing is that these people switched to mobile devices and tablets... they arent buying nintendo consoles and games. So suddenly nintendo renounces the casual market saying that they are "pathetic people"

Truth is they noticed that the whole "casual gamer market" doesnt work for them anymore and now they come crawling back hoping that their long time fans from ye olden days will forgive them.

I think what he meant was people who only play one game or one style of game, like people who bought wiis just to play wii sports. Also I have a friend who has admits he's not a gamer because the only game he buys and plays were CoD but he has now switched to battlefield. Perhaps he chose some strong words, but he has always had a tough reputation from dev teams, often completely scrapping and restarting development of projects. On the other side of that he would calmly show them what he wanted. I remember a dev interview that compared a visit to be like the emperor visiting the death star under construction.

I agree with him and I'm all for Nintendo focusing on the the more dependable hardcore market. It was a big mistake to take things too far in the casual direction and he realizes that. Nothing wrong with trying though. I also find it funny how people are accusing Miyamoto of flip flopping. Guy can never catch a break and reminds me of this little gem

image

BiH-Kira:

omega 616:
I think it's pathetic you make a game, skin Mario characters on to it and then people eat it up! Or the bare faced fucking cheek of remaking a pokémon game! They are all more or less the same game with different pokémon, all they have to do is think up another 100 or so and BAM, 2 new games (which is cheeky as well. Imagine if street fighter did that, released 2 versions of the same game with 5 fighters exclusive to one and a different 5 exclusive to the other) ... then to not even be bothered to think of another 100+, and just remake an old game but people still go ape shit for it!

I think it's fucked up people hate on COD for being the same game every year, when it probably has more changes than the Mario Franchise.

I think Nintendo is the most over rated company by a huge mile.

I think you're trying too hard to fit into the Nintendo hate group.
You obviously didn't play and Mario games. COD having much more changes than Mario? Really? You want to tell me that Mario 3, Mario 3D World, NSMBU and Galaxy are pretty much the same game? Are you, in all seriousness telling me that those are the same game?

I am talking in broad strokes like all the 2d ones or all the 3d ones.

To me, 2d side scrollers are all the same with there own gimmick. Mario 2d just tacks on new bows and trinkets, like a new power or suit.

Admittedly, I am talking a bit out of ignorance but every time I see an announcement for a new Mario game .... It looks identical to another one but this one has X and Y.

BiH-Kira:
This is most likely bad translation or meaning lost during translation. I doubt Miyamoto, as a public figure and face of Nintendo would use that kind of language to talk about their costumer. It doesn't seem like something Nintendo would do.

While i agree that Nintendo is unlikely to speak this, actions speak louder than words and they were pissing on costumers for years.

Hey, Nintendo. Burning bridges is fun, no?

So...anyone else feeling like we're missing a LOT of context for this quote? Like, this quote seems pretty mean-spirited for the "family-friendly", "we really, really don't want controversy" video game company. Like, there is a paragraph or two before or after this sentence that explains this more? Because, I'm just saying this sounds "off" for Nintendo, ESPECIALLY Miyamoto.

Oh, well. I'm sure we will all pile hate upon hate at Nintendo like an abusive boyfriend.

Aiddon:
Why would anyone want to actively focus on the "hardcore" again? If there is one thing I've learned over my entire lifetime of gaming it's this: the hardcore are not loyal, grateful, or charitable. Why would you want to be tied down to an audience like that, especially when there's little room for them to grow? The NES, SNES, Game Boy, GBA, PS1, PS2, 360, PS3, DS, Wii, and 3DS did not succeed because of "core" gamers, we are not that numerous enough to do that. No, it's always been the broader audience that has brought in the money and if they truly have all moved on to mobile games, that's not good for console or handheld gaming, which includes EVERYBODY.

And I thought people would realize that by now; after decades you'd think they would have understood that gaming is going to outgrow the gamer culture if that makes any sense and that means new people are going to go in. Heck, Pong was first distributed to bars, not exactly the go-to spot when thinking of stereotypical gaming culture. You'd think gamers would be HAPPY about people understanding their love for the medium and getting into it. I am shocked by how many people are still SEETHING over Nintendo attempting to give the gaming population a much-needed booster shot, unaware that they STILL MADE EVERYTHING THEY MADE BEFORE. We still got Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Pokemon, and Kirby it's just that they made a lot of other stuff that we had to share space with. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Ehhhhh, bars are currently one of the few places that have arcades (Dave's and Buffalo Wild Wings are two good examples of this) so it isn't too out of it to see bars being a hardcore fan base. Besides, the negative stereotypes of a bar-goer sounds not too different from an average gamer. (Why yes, game culture has destroyed my joy for fans, why do you ask?)

Dragonbums:

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

It's not like Nintendo ever changed their philosophy in game design anyway. The games they made now has been the same games they made since they first started for the most part. This whole mentality between hardcore and "casuals" started because of the Wii anyway. Then again- Nintendo always changed up their gaming peripherals. Only this time around "hrdc0r3" gamers felt "burned" by the Wii U like garlic to a vampire and proclaimed that Nintendo ditched "tru gamers" for the casuals. Even though most of the people making shovel ware crap were companies like Chipotle.

They've booked the casual market quite well. If 3DS sales are anything to go by. And besides, it's not like any attempts to appeal to the "hrdc0r3" gaming populace worked anyway. Not since the Gamecube era.

Hell, if you want proof of this, look at Smash Bros. After the leak, SO many people are swearing off Smash, saying that they know all the need to know. Some are even going as far as thanking the leaker for doing this because they can know convince as many people as possible to not buy this game because it "betrayed" them. How did it betray? I have no freaking clue...

Nintendo of all companies disses casuals? Why sell something if you're gonna belittle people for buying it?

Someone is getting deeeeeeeeeesperaaaaaate.

I mean i have no problem with Nintendo going back to to more challenging games and a more "adult" approach to games and gameplay in the broadest sense. Hey the Wii, the DS and now the 3DS made them so much money they could act like "Third party don't want to make games for us? Fuck it! We buy them!". So go on Nintendo. Hope you make it.

But considering the recent news about the Wii-U and Nintendo...it sounds very much like "Please just buy our stuff! We say anything you want!"

Aiddon:

And I thought people would realize that by now; after decades you'd think they would have understood that gaming is going to outgrow the gamer culture if that makes any sense and that means new people are going to go in. You'd think gamers would be HAPPY about people understanding their love for the medium and getting into it. I am shocked by how many people are still SEETHING over Nintendo attempting to give the gaming population a much-needed booster shot, unaware that they STILL MADE EVERYTHING THEY MADE BEFORE. We still got Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Metroid, Smash Bros., Donkey Kong, Pokemon, and Kirby it's just that they made a lot of other stuff that we had to share space with. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

That does bring a loosely related but still interesting point about gamer culture. Why do some of us hate "casual" gamers and what the Wii did for the acceptance of videogames by the mainstream culture? I for one think we really should be welcoming people into our hobby spreading the good things about this medium rather than accentuating the negative stereotypes the popular culture has lumped us with.

Back to the topic at hand the mindset of "I am the customer entertain me." One of the facebook comments gave it a better description "zero effort gamers" which I think is a better description and probably should have been used instead.

oplinger:

I think you miss the point. it's not about expecting entertainment to entertain them, or people getting their pleasures differently from you.

In the quote he likens it to people wanting to watch a movie. He uses the word "passive." He is not saying anything about "real gamers"

The short quote we have only says that it's pathetic if you only play games for them to entertain you like a movie. To passively expect the fun to come to you.

To extrapolate on that, you can't even have a game do -anything- without your input. So it is sort of pathetic to expect the game to entertain you in a passive manner. It's an active medium, and where all the potential lies in with those games that you interact with, with the people who "take it a step further."

He's stating the differences between being a part of the entertainment, and just watching the entertainment.

That doesn't hold sway for me. Unless they're literally watching a film then they're still playing a game. If they are playing a game then criticising them for having fun in the 'wrong' way is stupid and it's always going to be stupid. If they aren't even playing games at all then the comments wouldn't apply or he's doing the even more stupid thing of taking games which are different from the games he likes to play and make and saying 'oh those don't count'

This is the second case of 'stop having fun guys! You're not doing it properly!' that Nintendo has had in recent months (the last time being when they said it wasn't fun to watch games on Twitch). Really what they're saying is 'Why won't you play with me when I tell you to anymore?'

tm96:

That does bring a loosely related but still interesting point about gamer culture. Why do some of us hate "casual" gamers and what the Wii did for the acceptance of videogames by the mainstream culture? I for one think we really should be welcoming people into our hobby spreading the good things about this medium rather than accentuating the negative stereotypes the popular culture has lumped us with.

Back to the topic at hand the mindset of "I am the customer entertain me." One of the facebook comments gave it a better description "zero effort gamers" which I think is a better description and probably should have been used instead.

I think it's the typical nerd mentality; having to share space with new always makes nerds uncomfortable, especially when it brings more diversity to the table. It's the fear of being shoved to the side to accommodate new players...but we've seen that there are always going to be studios who cater to "core" gamers anyway. If anything, not enough studios try to expand the audience of gaming. This is probably due to so many designers having been "core" gamers and thus lacking self-awareness.

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

What differentiates games from other media is the fact that they are supposed to challenge the individual to some degree, which goes beyond just entertainment. Miyamoto is just saying that originally they were trying for people who are just looking for an interactive television experience with the Wii, while now they are trying for something that has more to it than just... shovelware? Now I'm more curious as to what the man is trying to get at.

xaszatm:

Hell, if you want proof of this, look at Smash Bros. After the leak, SO many people are swearing off Smash, saying that they know all the need to know. Some are even going as far as thanking the leaker for doing this because they can know convince as many people as possible to not buy this game because it "betrayed" them. How did it betray? I have no freaking clue...

Honestly, this just shows that if anything the self proclaimed hardcore gamers are THE MOST fickle fanbase out of all of them. I remember seeing the leak initially and I thought it was funny. I mean Duck Hunt dog? That's fucking hilarious! That's the whole point of SSB. Pitting different Nintendo IP's together in an arena no matter how silly it is. But no. The "hardcore" just want their popular favorites with no items and final destination and that's it. That's not fun. Competitive? Sure. But fun? No.

And honestly, this medium has very few entry points for casuals to get in to. At least with the PC gaming crowd WoW, TF2, and other similar games make for good entry points for casual gamers. Consoles? Not really.

Just look at the amount of hate a company or person gets when they dare to suggest something to put in videogames to draw in that market. (No not appeal to the "broader" audience kind of appeal.)

EA/Bioware got a whole lot of fucking shit for adding in Story Mode into ME3. Hardcore gamers cried that it's not fair that they had to work at getting the story and casuals can just do the story for the most part. The thing was, was that nobody really plays Mass Effect for gameplay anyway. Not everyone is good at videogames. Or has the motor skills to play them right. You know what turns off a player from videogames fast? Getting frustrated that they can't play the game consistently. To which the "hrdc0r3" said "Yeah go play another game." Yeah well see here's the thing. If said person was actually trying to play games for the first time and found their attempt horrible, they'll go back to not playing videogames. You just lost another potential fan to the series and the medium. Because as much as you want them to experience the super awesome plot, you want nothing to do with them if they opt in for the option to give them that plot with minimal of the action.

Then we got Jennifer Hepler. All the woman fucking suggested was that there was a skip battle button to get to the story. Just like how there is a skip cutscene button so players can get in on the action. I personally thought it was a good idea. The only battles you can't skip are the important ones, but you can skip the mindless filler ones that serve no purpose but to pad out the game. But holy fucking damn. She might of well of said that videogames are for assbabies only. Especially when it was compounded with the fact that she sucks at navigating UI interfaces and had slow reaction times- she often got frustrated playing videogames so she didn't like playing them all that much. The amount of shit she got escalated to her fucking kids getting death threats. And while her leaving the industry she claimed had nothing to do with the harassment. I have no fucking doubts this was one major incident in her list of reasons of why she left. And frankly I wouldn't blame her if she steered other writers interested in writing for games away from this medium too.

Then we have Dark Souls. They simply added in an Easy mode (how easy it was relative to the game I have no clue. Never played it.) This was another attempt to grab in more potential fans that were put off by how difficult the game supposedly was. There is nothing wrong with that. Like I said, SOME people, and even gamers are not that good at video games no matter what. Whether it be a disability or lack of fine tuned reaction and motor skills. It all around was a nice addition to the game. And was completely optional. But no. Fans went fucking apeshit over it. So many people were swearing off the series because it was "dumbed down" for the casuals even though nothing is stopping you from playing in Normal(hard) mode.

Look how offputting that kind of shit is. Devs have to constantly keep on their toes because "hardcore" gamers will ditch them over one stupid fucking thing.

For Nintendo it was the Wii. They didn't make games any fucking differently than previously. But a fucking peripheral experiment that had an explosion in popularity- and as a company- they expanded more on (keep in mind that they never changed the core values of their games outside of controls) people felt "betrayed", "hurt", and "angry" at Nintendo for making fucking move controls. Other than that, I seriously don't see where the "burning bridges" came in aside from a few other quotes from Miyamoto. Which is another thing- If I remember correctly there was a question someone asked him about what he would do when he stopped making videogames. Apparently Miyamato said that he would just stop playing games because not many of them really grabbed his interest.

The man strikes me as the most casual as fuck gamer on the whole planet. He just happens to be good at making them more than anything.

Miyamoto didn't say that casuals were pathetic for simply wanting and getting "zero effort" games. He said it was kind of pathetic that they don't want to truly engage in the game on some level.

You know how people take a shit on David Cage games because they are just "movies with text options?" Yeah, that's kind of what he's talking about. The super casual crowd just wants David Cage games and nothing else.

I'm pretty sure by hardcore he meant regulars who enjoy what games have to offer and indulge in it. Not the other hardcore where adding in an easy mode to a game is enough to piss off the entire fucking fanbase. Those guys are even more unfun and fickle than the casuals they so hate.

~A little less abnegation, a little more action, please,

All this repetition ain't interactin' with me,

A little more game and a little less show,

A little less tell and a little more go,

Make a game that I can play for days, and baby satisfy me

Satisfy me, baby~

I get what he's saying; they want to cater to people who are willing to interact with a game, and all of its narrative and mechanical complexities, instead of just wanting to sit outside of the experience, pressing a button to progress, and whatnot.

Well... here's hoping? Yeah, why not.

Colt47:

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

What differentiates games from other media is the fact that they are supposed to challenge the individual to some degree, which goes beyond just entertainment. Miyamoto is just saying that originally they were trying for people who are just looking for an interactive television experience with the Wii, while now they are trying for something that has more to it than just... shovelware? Now I'm more curious as to what the man is trying to get at.

I think what he meant was that after initially getting in the casual crowd with the Wii (keep in mind I think it could be a translation mishap on their end here.) Efforts to draw them in to more engaging games like Mario, Kirby, so on and so forth was fruitless becuase those people just wanted to entertain themselves with minimal effort garbage games that the likes of Coldstone shat out on the Wii. Nintendo themselves aside from Wii Sports and Music have consistently made engaging games. But the casuals just wanted a console version of mobile phone apps and that was never Nintendo's thing. So they are just going to focus more of their attention on engaging games again as opposed to making "icebreaker" games in the hopes that the casuals would desire a more engaging experience.

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

Okay you're absolutely wrong. I actually had to make an account to make a note on how wrong you are. Your comment is so horrifyingly wrong that it's going to give me nightmares for the next week.

Casuals never left Nintendo for mobile devices. The Wii and 3DS were both EXTREMELY successful. Seriously, explain to me how Nintendo's two consoles aimed at more casual players were the most successful if they were ditched for mobile devices?

Their "hardcore" console is the one which has been failing. The Wii U is aimed at core gamers and it's been doing badly due to a lack of titles.

And let's assume for a minute that you were actually correct in ANYTHING you just said, which you're not. Miyamoto never even said that he wants to switch audiences because of money issues. He stated, as a games designer, that he doesn't like the casual market's attitude towards games. He stated, pretty clearly as a games designer (I feel like I really need to stress this point for you), that he wants to design for an audience who challenge themselves with games, rather than cater to an audience who want their games to have little interactivity (similar to movies).

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

You misunderstood his quote. He means that he doesn't want to create games which hand everything to players on a platter.

Players are supposed to challenge themselves with games. Look at the original Zelda, players find their own enjoyment out of the game. Games which behave like movies are games which Miyamoto doesn't like. Look at The Walking Dead. It's hardly even a game, it's just a movie with a few interactions thrown in the mix.

Miyamoto is saying that he wants Nintendo to create real games for players who WANT those real games.

Stats ^1:

Okay you're absolutely wrong. I actually had to make an account to make a note on how wrong you are. Your comment is so horrifyingly wrong that it's going to give me nightmares for the next week.

Casuals never left Nintendo for mobile devices. The Wii and 3DS were both EXTREMELY successful. Seriously, explain to me how Nintendo's two consoles aimed at more casual players were the most successful if they were ditched for mobile devices?

Their "hardcore" console is the one which has been failing. The Wii U is aimed at core gamers and it's been doing badly due to a lack of titles.

And let's assume for a minute that you were actually correct in ANYTHING you just said, which you're not. Miyamoto never even said that he wants to switch audiences because of money issues. He stated, as a games designer, that he doesn't like the casual market's attitude towards games. He stated, pretty clearly as a games designer (I feel like I really need to stress this point for you), that he wants to design for an audience who challenge themselves with games, rather than cater to an audience who want their games to have little interactivity (similar to movies).

The Western casuals most certainly have left Nintendo. The 3DS is still popular in Japan and with Western children, but other than that the Western casual market has forgotten about Nintendo. The Wii U was hardly marketed towards the "core" crowd. I can't even remember what it launched with, but the core crowd was extremely unimpressed with the controller and line up. They saw the tablet controller as Nintendo trying to capture casual lightning again like they did with the Wii motion controls.

I also feel the need to point out to you that it's very easy to lie or conceal the truth. In this case, it is possible Miyamoto is only saying that he dislikes making casual games to appear like someone passionate about making them, when in reality he has found casual games simply aren't profitable, but needs an excuse for the sudden change in company policy.

Nowhere Man:
I agree with him and I'm all for Nintendo focusing on the the more dependable hardcore market. It was a big mistake to take things too far in the casual direction and he realizes that. Nothing wrong with trying though. I also find it funny how people are accusing Miyamoto of flip flopping. Guy can never catch a break and reminds me of this little gem

image

Funny thing is, the handheld titles seem to be immune from this.

Dragonbums:

Then we have Dark Souls. They simply added in an Easy mode (how easy it was relative to the game I have no clue. Never played it.)

Clearly, because if you did play Dark Souls II, you'd know that they added nothing of the sort.

Gundam GP01:

Dragonbums:

Then we have Dark Souls. They simply added in an Easy mode (how easy it was relative to the game I have no clue. Never played it.)

Clearly, because if you did play Dark Souls II, you'd know that they added nothing of the sort.

Then what was all the complaining about an easy mode then?

Dragonbums:

Gundam GP01:

Dragonbums:

Then we have Dark Souls. They simply added in an Easy mode (how easy it was relative to the game I have no clue. Never played it.)

Clearly, because if you did play Dark Souls II, you'd know that they added nothing of the sort.

Then what was all the complaining about an easy mode then?

Probably about the director's comments about wanting to make the game more accessible, which was interpret by fans as 'Make it easier.'

Is it just me or is Nintendo in a kind of perpetual "Damned if you do Damned if you don't" scenario? They take a risk and people decry them for not making a new Mario and Zelda, they play it safe and people cry rehash. They try to expand to a wider audience and they are accused of selling out, they try to appeal to the core gamer and they are met with scorn. And lets not get into the constant doomsaying. Nintendo: Doomed since 1984.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

I'll believe Nintendon't when they put out a Metroid game that isn't complete garbage.

damn Miyamoto is awesome. i agree with him, the casual gamers or non-gamers are a bit passive and aren't really willing to push them self to play through a challenge, or engage in a deeper level. they just sit back as if watching a movie. perhaps that is why so many AAA developers make their games more movie-like, which disgusts me. it's like working backwards, we should be innovating and advancing in how engaging the experience is and how we interact with the game world. not trying to turn it more into a movie and less like a game.

i already started noticing Nintendo's core approach when they started digging up old IP and doing classic Mario again. I think that's pretty cool.

Also to the butthurt ex's in this thread, don't act like Nintendo betrayed you with the focus of the Wii, they weren't catering to a casual market than, they were CREATING IT. now that crowd has moved onto mobile and so Nintendo is refocusing back to it's roots. Times change and so does business, get over it. Nintendo is smart enough to know the Wii won't happen twice for them. Additionally, Nintendo has always been focused on traditional gaming when it comes to their 1st party lineup.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here