Miyamoto Refocusing on Hardcore; Casual Gamers' Passive Attitude "Pathetic"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4
 

Karadalis:

Olas:

How is "going where the money is" something to be criticized for? It's what businesses do, and Nintendo's push for the casual market with the Wii made them mad dough while it lasted. The fact that Nintendo isn't stupid enough to stay on a sinking ship isn't something to be mad about.

Okay, ya it's a little hypocritical for the guy that showed off Wii Music to complain about the filthy casuals, but ultimately he's just being a spokesman for the games Nintendo makes, not some sort of gaming connoisseur.

Its not the act of going where the money is that im critisizing. Heck they would be stupid not to.

Its that they cover it in layers of BS.

Nintendo threw away their harcore loyal fanbase for the casual market with noses raised high in the air at the dirty hardcore gamers.

Now nintendo throws away the casual market (or rather the casual market threw them away) and they still have their noses high in the air even insulting casual gamers as pathetic, when the truth is that those casuals are simply not interested in nintento anymore, and that sure as hell is not their fault. Heck myamoto even bemoans that their customers DARE to expect to be entertained by nintendo products... wtf?

This isnt honesty.. this isnt saying "yeah we bet on the wrong horse, but now we have our heads straight again"

This is acting like someone who cheated on their significant other and now comes back because their little affair didnt turn out to be something lasting and think by insulting said affair they will make it up to their ex.

Are you seriously comparing brand loyality to marriage? Let me read it aloud again...

This is acting like someone who cheated on their significant other and now comes back because their little affair didnt turn out to be something lasting and think by insulting said affair they will make it up to their ex.

Yes, you are comparing consuming products with maintaining a close and personal relationship with another human being! One advice: don't mix bussiness with personal life. It just brings problems and makes us act like kids.

canadamus_prime:
Personally I don't think it makes much sense to focus entirely on one or the other, but instead make games form both the "hardcore" *heavy sarcastic air quotes* and "casual." However as long as "focusing on the Hardcore" doesn't mean jumping on the Call of Duty bandwagon, I'm ok with this.

Call of Duty isn't hardcore. Anyone can play it, and finishing it requires little skill.

While I do think that this statement was made mainly because Nintendo is losing the "casual" market, it is nice to hear that they will be attempting to appeal more to the players looking to put more dedication into what they play. I don't think he means casual as in the steroetypical "doesn't play hardcore games for hardcore gamers such as myself" thing (so no need to go wild with "casual doesn't exist if they play games they're gamers" thing) I think he means casual in a literal sense, people who might play games every once in a while but aren't really invested in them. The Wii did well because it was like the toy that mom and pop can play with little Timmy and grandpa when they come over and then forget about it, but that shtick just won't work with the WiiU. They need to pull in their previous fans and the hobbiest type who doesn't pick favorites.

KingsGambit:
So is this guy particularly famous in the industry or something? I mean how much do the words of some unknown guy really matter? Let's be honest here, he's no Phil Fish.

The fact that people in this thread fell for this is truly lamentable.

It's like a lot of people here are so incapable of perceiving obvious flame bait, or sarcasm, or holding a fair and balanced discussion.

I've been a Nintendo gamer since 1988 and I left in 2008 when I felt that I was no longer receiving any content aimed towards me.

The tall and short of it is that Nintendo want the core audience back, and provided they live up to expectations, they can take it back. Debating the statement and the motivations behind it are pointless, and if anything, we should all be grateful that enough people actually give a shit about Nintendo to argue about it.

The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. Provided people care, Nintendo will have a future.

Saltyk:
I mean, he calls "passive gamers" (never heard that phrase, I'm going to assume he means casual) pathetic. That had better be a mistranslation.

I think that's a big issue in all these comments and articles about this all over the Internet. He said "passive" gamers and "core" gamers, and everybody are interpreting that as "casual" gamers and "hardcore" gamers because no one has ever used the term "passive" gamers. Maybe Miyamoto really meant causal gamers, but I'm not sure enough.

Karadalis:

weirdee:

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

I bet you believed Sony when they said they had changed from the PS3 days.

Straw man much?

Where did i mentioned sony?

Back when the Wii came out nintendo made it very clear that their long time fanbase and hardcore gamers are "not their market" anymore and that they would focus on casual gaming because it was so new and fresh and could reach so many more people... like all those commercials where the whole family plays? Yeah thing is that these people switched to mobile devices and tablets... they arent buying nintendo consoles and games. So suddenly nintendo renounces the casual market saying that they are "pathetic people"

Truth is they noticed that the whole "casual gamer market" doesnt work for them anymore and now they come crawling back hoping that their long time fans from ye olden days will forgive them.

Are you really sitting there, angry at a COMPANY for going where the money is? The gamecube, no matter what we all say, was one of their worst selling consoles. The Wii made them money. Lots of it. Of course they were going to go where the money was. They lost quite a lot of money the previous generation. Now, though, they came out ahead and are rewarding the faithful with great things.

Well Nintendo has been in the midcard long enough to get rid of any staleness, this'll be their return to the main event. Sony vs Microsoft isn't drawing well enough as no one pays good money for weekly squashes brother jack dude.

well maybe if you stopped making gimmicks to boost your consoles interest and focused on giving us current gen games with a normal controller maybe just maybe we'll look your way again

stop making toys and start making gaming consoles again, embrace online interactivity, and new age graphics!

GZGoten:
well maybe if you stopped making gimmicks to boost your consoles interest and focused on giving us current gen games with a normal controller maybe just maybe we'll look your way again

stop making toys and start making gaming consoles again, embrace online interactivity, and new age graphics!

You don't like the Pro Controller?

Rozalia1:
Well Nintendo has been in the midcard long enough to get rid of any staleness, this'll be their return to the main event. Sony vs Microsoft isn't drawing well enough as no one pays good money for weekly squashes brother jack dude.

I thought Nintendo's "Wii" gimmick had pushed it into a solid main event contention again, but management just desn't seem to know what to do with its newfound success.

CaitSeith:

canadamus_prime:
Personally I don't think it makes much sense to focus entirely on one or the other, but instead make games form both the "hardcore" *heavy sarcastic air quotes* and "casual." However as long as "focusing on the Hardcore" doesn't mean jumping on the Call of Duty bandwagon, I'm ok with this.

Call of Duty isn't hardcore. Anyone can play it, and finishing it requires little skill.

Whatever. I don't want "Hardcore" to mean "grisled short brown haired guys shooting things."

Stats ^1:

Again, wrong.

The 3DS is exceptionally popular in the west, and not just among children. Get your facts right. Pokemon alone boosted the Wii U's sales exceptionally, across most ages.

"As of June 30, 2014, Nintendo reports 44.14 million units have been shipped worldwide, of which 16.15 million were shipped to Japan, 14.83 million were shipped to North America, and 13.16 million were shipped to other territories including Europe"
-"Consolidated Sales Transition by Region" (PDF). Nintendo. 2014-07-29. Retrieved 2014-07-30
Population of North America: 528 Million
Population of Japan: 126 Million

Stats ^1:
And the Wii U has ALWAYS been marketed towards the core crowd. That's the reason Nintendo supported all of those ports for games like Watch Dogs, Deus Ex, Batman and Darksiders etc. It's also the reason the Wii U has seen game releases like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.

"However Nintendo's biggest challenge may well be its core user base. According to research conducted by market research firm Mintel, roughly half of Nintendo Wii users described themselves as casual gamers - a far higher percentage than the 35 per cent of Sony Playstation users and the 15 per cent of Microsoft Xbox users who described themselves the same way. It is that demographic, more than any other, that is likely to opt for the sort of inexpensive games that can be played on a smartphone or tablet."
-http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/flagging-sales-increased-competition-could-it-be-game-over-for-nintendo/article18543032/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dbGJieRaH0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bso27e3Inzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybA6nGKi9pY

Stats ^1:
You also have literally NO IDEA what you're talking about in terms of the Wii U's controller. the Console doesn't use motion controls at all.

I never said it did. I said the core crowd saw the tablet as another gimmick LIKE motion control.

Stats ^1:
I seriously mean AT ALL. It doesn't even use the touch screen on most games. The use of the tablet controller is for offscreen play. Unless you're playing Nintendoland (which is a tech demo), then there's an option for a regular controller for all Wii U games. Motion control hardly exists in the console.

Off screen play is far more useful for a family than a hardcore gamer.

Stats ^1:
And finally, are you claiming that Miyamoto, the man who pretty much SAVED the entire gaming industry with the two most iconic gaming titles in HISTORY is not passionate about making games?

No, I said that he was using his passion as an excuse for a returning to the core demographic.

Stats ^1:
Are you seriously claiming that the most famous videogames designer who's been in the industry for over 20 years is trying to "appear" like someone who's passionate about making games?

Nope

Stats ^1:
And how or why would be possibly "need an excuse for the sudden change in company policy". Miyamoto isn't the head of Nintendo anymore. Iwata is. Miyamoto stepped down so he could have a larger hand in his own, personal, smaller titles.

Because what he says reflects on the company. And the company has spent the last several years worshiping the casuals and brushing aside the core crowd, but now want to return to the core crowd. That makes them look idiotic and gives every core gamer the feeling Nintendo is insincere. "We don't need you! We have the casuals!" [Casuals leave for smart phones] "Ah! We hate those casuals! Nintendo loves making games for hardcore gamers!"

Stats ^1:
Seriously, how much false nonsense are you going to spout? Do you do this in real life too? Try and convince people that the nonsense you're spouting is factual? When in reality you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Do you get this hilariously mad about video games in real life too?

Whist a good attitude , just make good games and people will buy the system.

WeepingAngels:

GZGoten:
well maybe if you stopped making gimmicks to boost your consoles interest and focused on giving us current gen games with a normal controller maybe just maybe we'll look your way again

stop making toys and start making gaming consoles again, embrace online interactivity, and new age graphics!

You don't like the Pro Controller?

I only play games that allow me to use the Pro Controller but there's more than one game that prohibits exclusively using the pro controller

Westaway:
-snip-

I'll respond to your points when you make a post that isn't annoying, snips the quote into a load of small quotes and doesn't take up half of the screen.

GZGoten:

I only play games that allow me to use the Pro Controller but there's more than one game that prohibits exclusively using the pro controller

You mean Nintendo Land and ZombiU? Two glorified tech demos for the Wii U to show how the controller works and can be used? Or are you referring to the shovelware on the console? The only time the console stops you from using the pro controller is on occasional optional levels in games like Mario 3D World and Rayman Legends.

zombiejoe:
While I do think that this statement was made mainly because Nintendo is losing the "casual" market, it is nice to hear that they will be attempting to appeal more to the players looking to put more dedication into what they play. I don't think he means casual as in the steroetypical "doesn't play hardcore games for hardcore gamers such as myself" thing (so no need to go wild with "casual doesn't exist if they play games they're gamers" thing) I think he means casual in a literal sense, people who might play games every once in a while but aren't really invested in them. The Wii did well because it was like the toy that mom and pop can play with little Timmy and grandpa when they come over and then forget about it, but that shtick just won't work with the WiiU. They need to pull in their previous fans and the hobbiest type who doesn't pick favorites.

Except it wasn't because they're losing the casual market. Miyamoto made a statement as a GAMES DESIGNER that he doesn't like the attitude that gamers take towards the games he wants to design. He's stating that he wants to make games like he used to in the NES/SNES days, games with puzzles and challenges.

He's saying that the casual market's attitude is pathetic because they want games to be more like movies, instead of actual games. The whole point of games is that they pose challenges to the player. A lot of current generation games don't do that.

Games like Snake and Pacman are real games because they're difficult and give a challenge for the player to overcome. Games like Heavy Rain and World of Warcraft aren't games as much as they are tours. They're more similar to movies, there's no real challenge in the games, just the illusion of challenge as they tell you a story. Egoraptor makes a similar point in his video of Ocarina of Time Sequelitis.

Stats ^1:

GZGoten:

I only play games that allow me to use the Pro Controller but there's more than one game that prohibits exclusively using the pro controller

You mean Nintendo Land and ZombiU? Two glorified tech demos for the Wii U to show how the controller works and can be used? Or are you referring to the shovelware on the console? The only time the console stops you from using the pro controller is on occasional optional levels in games like Mario 3D World and Rayman Legends.

well yeah there's also Wonderful 101 where you HAVE to look at the tablet whenever you're indoors, if hter'es a way to change it then I don't know I got tired of that game by level 3

and New Super Mario and Super Mario 3D world made player 1 use the game tablet, so while my 3 other friends were having fun with normal controls I was stuck using this stupid low battery heavy tablet excuse for a controller

you can defend it all you want, but personally, I HATE using that tablet or when a game forces me to use it. That's why Mario Kart and Wind Waker HD are the games I've played the most, I don't even have to look at the stupid thing and I can play the entire game

GZGoten:

well yeah there's also Wonderful 101 where you HAVE to look at the tablet whenever you're indoors, if hter'es a way to change it then I don't know I got tired of that game by level 3

and New Super Mario and Super Mario 3D world made player 1 use the game tablet, so while my 3 other friends were having fun with normal controls I was stuck using this stupid low battery heavy tablet excuse for a controller

you can defend it all you want, but personally, I HATE using that tablet or when a game forces me to use it. That's why Mario Kart and Wind Waker HD are the games I've played the most, I don't even have to look at the stupid thing and I can play the entire game

Wonderful 101? Press the "-" button. Problem solved. And indoor sections are extremely few and far between. There are maybe 3-4 total throughout the entire game total.

Super Mario 3D World? Let one of your friends use it. If all of them refuse? Then find new friends or learn to suck it up, because the controller's absolutely fine, it's not heavy and it feels no worse than holding an Xbox controller. Stop exaggerating.

Fatal frame 5 coming to NA on the Wii-U or Nintendo is full of it.

The Wii-U still doesn't have that great of a selection out or on the way and it's insane for this to be the 3rd fatal frame game nintendo didn't bring to NA.

They almost didn't bring Xenoblade over, Hell they never wanted to, now the 2nd is one of the most anticipated games in the region it was never going to come out for.

alj:
Whist a good attitude , just make good games and people will buy the system.

That's some Gamecube-logic right there. But in today's gaming market, I hope that such an ideology could work this time around. I've enjoyed all my own Wii U games tremendously so far.

PS - I've got the same t-shirt. It has 20 hearts on the back.

Eve Charm:

The Wii-U still doesn't have that great of a selection out or on the way and it's insane for this to be the 3rd fatal frame game nintendo didn't bring to NA.

Just out of curiousity, how many is a great selection? To you? I imagine my gaming habits are different to yours.

Stats ^1:

GZGoten:

well yeah there's also Wonderful 101 where you HAVE to look at the tablet whenever you're indoors, if hter'es a way to change it then I don't know I got tired of that game by level 3

and New Super Mario and Super Mario 3D world made player 1 use the game tablet, so while my 3 other friends were having fun with normal controls I was stuck using this stupid low battery heavy tablet excuse for a controller

you can defend it all you want, but personally, I HATE using that tablet or when a game forces me to use it. That's why Mario Kart and Wind Waker HD are the games I've played the most, I don't even have to look at the stupid thing and I can play the entire game

Wonderful 101? Press the "-" button. Problem solved. And indoor sections are extremely few and far between. There are maybe 3-4 total throughout the entire game total.

Super Mario 3D World? Let one of your friends use it. If all of them refuse? Then find new friends or learn to suck it up, because the controller's absolutely fine, it's not heavy and it feels no worse than holding an Xbox controller. Stop exaggerating.

like I said I never played beyond stage 3 I think it was, didn't like the game
and yes all of my friends refuse to use the tablet and no I can't just make new friends, I'm pretty sure nobody can, and I did suck it up, I played through the whole game using it, that still doesn't change the fact that I wish I could use a Pro Controller.

AND to me it does feel much worse than an xbox controller. You love it I hate it, why are you making such a big deal out of this? Can't we just agree to disagree?

Toadfish1:
So their plan now is to try to delight the hardcore? Well, just so long as their hardware isn't hugely underpowered, and their third party situation isn't abysmal, they might have a chance to pull that off. Oh, wait.

Touche. They might have to wait for the next generation of hardware to roll around or maybe even something like a ram expansion on a later model. For now they need to just put their money where their mouth is and try to regain support.

Zachary Amaranth:

I thought Nintendo's "Wii" gimmick had pushed it into a solid main event contention again, but management just desn't seem to know what to do with its newfound success.

Wii Nintendo was akin to CM Punk, champ with a huge title reign but treated as secondary to other competitors. WiiU era Nintendo is the midcard champ who mainevents house shows due to their workrate, and popularity.

GZGoten:

like I said I never played beyond stage 3 I think it was, didn't like the game
and yes all of my friends refuse to use the tablet and no I can't just make new friends, I'm pretty sure nobody can, and I did suck it up, I played through the whole game using it, that still doesn't change the fact that I wish I could use a Pro Controller.

AND to me it does feel much worse than an xbox controller. You love it I hate it, why are you making such a big deal out of this? Can't we just agree to disagree?

I don't love it, but I'm not insane and irrationally negative about the controller. It doesn't feel as bad as you're trying to make people believe. I know for a fact that you don't honestly believe the garbage you're spouting about the controller being a giant brick.

I read the source linked in the article, and it still doesn't say what language he said it in.

And even if he was speaking English, it's obviously not his first language.

alj:
Whist a good attitude , just make good games and people will buy the system.

Some marketing campaign indicating one system is different from another would also help. What happened to those days? They went from Super Nintendo to Nintendo 64 to Nintendo GameCube. Now it's Wii and Wii U, DS to 3DS to New 3DS.

I guess no one told Shigeru that "gamers are dead"? Huh...

Archon:
I guess no one told Shigeru that "gamers are dead"? Huh...

Kudos.

I applaud this.

I'll believe it when they launch a proper gaming system. One that destroys the PS4 in specs please!

Flunk:
I'll believe it when they launch a proper gaming system. One that destroys the PS4 in specs please!

All they really need to do is launch a console that matches the PS4's specs for a lower production cost and retail price.

First Party is an automatic win, third parties love money and will port their games over. The only "sticking point" is their online policy/system and how they intend to balance their focus.

They could easily get back in contention. They just need to buy themselves time to design and develop a new strategy and console whilst the Wii U does the best that it can in the meantime.

This just sounds like a case of subtlety being lost in translation to me. I'm guessing (though non-English languages are all Greek to me) there were probably at least 1 or 2 other words/phrases that could have been used to translate this and not sounded as inflammatory and headline-grabbing. As others have said his meaning was probably closer to "apathetic" since he's describing passivity here.

Nintendo helped games go mainstream with the Wii but since then mainstream audience have been trained by mobile phones that games cost $1-$2 and should be as simple and repetitive as something on the Atari 2600. And that's just not what Nintendo makes, and even if they wanted to start making that the competition is so dense in that market it's already standing room only.

It's only natural that Nintendo would return to a market that they're already familiar with, and still in a relatively good position to compete in.

Flunk:
I'll believe it when they launch a proper gaming system. One that destroys the PS4 in specs please!

Why does the tech have to be cutting edge to be a "proper gaming system"? On the contrary- older hardware is cheaper and easier to develop for. Extra polygons and shininess are fine and all, but having them doesn't make a game "more gamey"/proper.

Ratty:

Flunk:
I'll believe it when they launch a proper gaming system. One that destroys the PS4 in specs please!

Why does the tech have to be cutting edge to be a "proper gaming system"? On the contrary- older hardware is cheaper and easier to develop for. Extra polygons and shininess are fine and all, but having them doesn't make a game "more gamey"/proper.

I think it's more to do with having the processors and the RAM to be able to smoothly run third-party games made by lazy developers who can't be bothered to tidy up their poor coding skills, thus leading to bloat, redundant code, memory errors, glitches and no end of others problems.

For reference, see most modern games. Notice why Fallout 3, New Vegas and TES:IV were like 6 - 7GB, but Skyrim was barely 4GB? They cut away loads of the crappy code and redesigned the Gamebryo Engine, and even then, Skyrim has ample problems.

Point being, third party developers are TOO LAZY to support anything of "inferior tech" because it requires too much effort.

Flunk:
I'll believe it when they launch a proper gaming system. One that destroys the PS4 in specs please!

Those saying all Nintendo needs to do is bring out a "powerhouse" clearly have no idea how consoles work. History is littered with examples of these supposed powerhouses and how successful they were.
So they break the bank to secure an expensive, more powerful system...to have third party games by the usual jobbers sell like crap anyway. So what is the point exactly?
Nintendo know better than to make a hoss the centerpiece of their stable. That is more an American thing, the Japanese prefer more technical performers.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here