Do you feel like a whipping boy that's being punished for the practice of particular retailers.
Yes, but what else can they do?
15.1% (31)
15.1% (31)
Yes and I wont take it anymore.
43.9% (90)
43.9% (90)
Maybe, if they really lost a lot of sales to used games it is at least partially our fault.
12.7% (26)
12.7% (26)
No, they have every right to blame us for stunted sales.
4.9% (10)
4.9% (10)
No, I think the publishers deserve more money.
13.2% (27)
13.2% (27)
Yes but the real problem is that there aren't as many console owners as there were last gen.
1.5% (3)
1.5% (3)
Entitled; I don't know what the word means but I depend on it to win arguments for me.
3.4% (7)
3.4% (7)
I don't know what this Online Pass thing is but you really need to stop scaring the kids.
4.9% (10)
4.9% (10)
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Poll: Online Pass: Have the Consumers become the whipping boy of the retailers?

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targren:
[quote="GonzoGamer" post="9.352360.14016674"
But you're kind of saying that Gamestop is an 'amoral entity that only exists to profit.' because they started taking advantage of gamers before the publishers started. It wasn't until Gamestop started requiring pre-orders for new games that publishers started getting fussy over used game sales because gamestop was selling used games to those who didn't pre-order.
[/quote]

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying that there's nothing legally, ethically, nor morally wrong about buying and selling used games, no matter how much the publishers want to whine about it. (Although, lately, they are proving rather successful at buying more and more laws to do something about the "legal" part)

Also, I have NEVER had Gamestop refuse to sell me a game that they had in stock because I didn't pre-order it, unless the stock was all called for by the pre-orders. And that's good, since in the past, they've had situations where they didn't do that and people with pre-orders found the store had sold them all, and that caught them a lot of (well-deserved) flack.

It's also VERY telling if there's a problem with games being sold back used WHILE there are still outstanding pre-orders. The game must suck very, very badly.

While that does also mean that publishers were releasing crappy games that could be finished in a few days, you have to admit that Gamestop is the entity that has a brought the used issue to a head.

No, they're not. That's my point. If Gamestop didn't exist, the same thing would have happened because of Flea Markets, Ebay, Amazon, Play'n'Trade, etc... What brought the issue to a head was that the advent of internet-enabled consoles gave the publishers a way to "leash" their customers and track these things, and they threw a bitch-fit.

The publishers didn't complain about the used game market before Gamestop got it's stranglehold because people didn't spend their new game budget on used copies; back then used games were impulse buys and didn't cost near $60, even for a recent release. Gamestop made them the only thing available to the average consumer (who doesn't pre-order) then jacked up the prices.

Again, that's not true at all. Gamestop isn't the only retailer selling games. Within 5 minutes of the nearest gamestop, there is also a WalMart, a Target, and a Best Buy, and all have comparable selection, especially when it comes to the "latest and greatest" (as in, games for which pre-orders are even a relevant consideration). Even if Gamestop WAS doing what you say (and again, they have never done so in my experience), odds are they don't have a used copy in stock anyway (unless, as I said, the game REALLY sucks that it's being sold back within a week) and the customer will go to the competition. That does not exactly make good business sense.

I don't mean to imply that the publishers are innocent, just that they seem to be taking their frustrations out on the consumers. I'm saying that's misplaced as Gamestop is the one who has put the consumer in the position where the used purchase is more convenient for the average consumer.

There's nothing WRONG with making the secondary market more convenient, but that's where the publishers need to be competing. Some of them have started with things like Steam and other methods of digital distribution(the convenience of which is arguable, but it's an attempt).

COMPETITION is not a bad thing. And this is competition, regardless of the fact that the publisher made the game. They are competing for the customers' entertainment budget, and they are doing a shit-poor job of making a case for themselves. Instead, they rely on blatantly self-serving rhetoric and transparently flawed appeals to get their customers to fight their battles for them.

I think we're mostly in agreement: that publishers are unreasonable in their shit-fit against used game sales.
I think you just haven't had the same experiences I've had at gamestop: any time I've gone in there looking to buy a new copy of a game, they ask me if I've pre-ordered and (as I never pre-order) try to sell me a used copy.
Either way, you have to have noticed that publishers only started throwing a shit-fit when used games started selling for $2 shy of new games. Once again it doesn't justify them butchering their titles.

GonzoGamer:

I think we're mostly in agreement: that publishers are unreasonable in their shit-fit against used game sales.
I think you just haven't had the same experiences I've had at gamestop: any time I've gone in there looking to buy a new copy of a game, they ask me if I've pre-ordered and (as I never pre-order) try to sell me a used copy.

Well, they've tried to, which is to say "You can save $x if you buy it used." I've never had one respond to "nah, I'll take the new one" with "Well, we can't sell it to you." Once, one guy did claim "we're sold out" which I called him out on since the box was still on the shelf (see below). So he held to his guns, and I went across the parking lot and bought it at Target. I get the feeling that the guy was lying since I was chatting with the GS manager on a future visit about it, and the guy disappeared not long after.

What they do that pisses me off is that if you're buying the last "new" copy, they've already opened it (to keep the actual game off the shelf), but they insist on charging you new for it. That, and they feed into the attack on them by playing along with the Day-One DLC bullshit.

Either way, you have to have noticed that publishers only started throwing a shit-fit when used games started selling for $2 shy of new games. Once again it doesn't justify them butchering their titles.

I'm afraid I've not noticed that at all. All of this noise of the past 5 years is not new to the Gamestop business model. If you're a long-time PC gamer (and I mean a REALLY long-time PC gamer) you might remember them pulling the exact same crap (with the exact same BS arguments) when they managed to get a ban on renting PC games(yes, you used to be able to), then selling them used, and even returning them for a refund.

All using that "You're not buying a game, renting a license" bullshit line of reasoning that, for some inexplicable reason, has corrupted consumer rights (at least in the US) to the point where asshole companies are actually using it with PHYSICAL purchases now.

targren:

GonzoGamer:

I think we're mostly in agreement: that publishers are unreasonable in their shit-fit against used game sales.
I think you just haven't had the same experiences I've had at gamestop: any time I've gone in there looking to buy a new copy of a game, they ask me if I've pre-ordered and (as I never pre-order) try to sell me a used copy.

Well, they've tried to, which is to say "You can save $x if you buy it used." I've never had one respond to "nah, I'll take the new one" with "Well, we can't sell it to you." Once, one guy did claim "we're sold out" which I called him out on since the box was still on the shelf (see below). So he held to his guns, and I went across the parking lot and bought it at Target. I get the feeling that the guy was lying since I was chatting with the GS manager on a future visit about it, and the guy disappeared not long after.

What they do that pisses me off is that if you're buying the last "new" copy, they've already opened it (to keep the actual game off the shelf), but they insist on charging you new for it. That, and they feed into the attack on them by playing along with the Day-One DLC bullshit.

Either way, you have to have noticed that publishers only started throwing a shit-fit when used games started selling for $2 shy of new games. Once again it doesn't justify them butchering their titles.

I'm afraid I've not noticed that at all. All of this noise of the past 5 years is not new to the Gamestop business model. If you're a long-time PC gamer (and I mean a REALLY long-time PC gamer) you might remember them pulling the exact same crap (with the exact same BS arguments) when they managed to get a ban on renting PC games(yes, you used to be able to), then selling them used, and even returning them for a refund.

All using that "You're not buying a game, renting a license" bullshit line of reasoning that, for some inexplicable reason, has corrupted consumer rights (at least in the US) to the point where asshole companies are actually using it with PHYSICAL purchases now.

What I always heard from Gamestop (I don't bother shopping there aymore unless I get a giftcard) when asking for a new game is "did you pre-order?" When answering no, I always got the "we can only sell you a used copy." And that's not just the store by me. That's all the one's I've been to in the nyc are and that's quite a few. That's what I'm saying: we've had different experiences there.
I don't remember them pulling the shitfit with PC games but I do remember when it started becoming harder to lend those games around. Shit, I still have some of those old games. That was a while ago, so why are they all of a sudden getting all shitfitty about used console games? I think the recent price gouging and pre-order ultimatums have something to do with that.

GonzoGamer:

I don't remember them pulling the shitfit with PC games but I do remember when it started becoming harder to lend those games around. Shit, I still have some of those old games. That was a while ago, so why are they all of a sudden getting all shitfitty about used console games? I think the recent price gouging and pre-order ultimatums have something to do with that.

Exactly. The answer is "Because now they can." With the move to internet-enabled consoles, they now have the ability to pull the same dirty tricks on console gamers that they've been pulling on PC gamers for years. The only reason that we're not seeing abusive DRM on consoles on top of all that is because of the built in DRM on all of the consoles. But even that, once beat, led to all sorts of obnoxiousness (with Sony leading the way, of course, with the 'mandatory updates' on PSP games)

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