Bioware allows the release of "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" a tell all app for $2.99 WTF?!

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The Wykydtron:
Y'know i'm over the ending of ME3 now... I'm strangely at peace with it. Weird.

How'd you do that, I'm still torn between:

Anger and Depression!

The Wykydtron:

It was Bioware's best writing to date as far as i'm concerned. Remember Mordin's death? That bar in the sky? Drunk Tali?

Agreed, Garrus' goodbye with my femshep was beautiful.

OT: I'd moan about this, but,
1: I know I'd buy it
2:I don't have an ipad

Aisaku:
The iPad only $2.99 app is meant to give inside info on the ending and development of Mass Effect. Everything that would've made this make sense: Fighting TIM, questioning the god-child... it was proposed, then scrapped. WTFFFFF!?

http://www.me3finalhours.com/

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

Snippets from the original post:

Just a heads up, this isn't an official bioware release, some chap over at Gametrailer or some such site cobbled this together. Bioware shut down part of the forums due to the misunderstanding this caused earlier tonight.

I see.

They actually thought that a closure-free pile of plot holes and space magic was the perfect ending. And they want me to pay to see them justify it.

No.

putowtin:

The Wykydtron:
Y'know i'm over the ending of ME3 now... I'm strangely at peace with it. Weird.

How'd you do that, I'm still torn between:

Anger and Depression!

The Wykydtron:

It was Bioware's best writing to date as far as i'm concerned. Remember Mordin's death? That bar in the sky? Drunk Tali?

Agreed, Garrus' goodbye with my femshep was beautiful.

OT: I'd moan about this, but,
1: I know I'd buy it
2:I don't have an ipad

Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck. But seriously it is really damn convincing and I felt I was missing something while I was playing but couldn't quite place it.

I'll look out for this stuff during my second playthrough. But my memory of the ending does fit this theory really well.

It's like DA2's ending all over again. Epic tragedy or massive fuck you depending on who you speak too. Except this game isn't rushed as fuck! Go EA for not throwing ME3 out the door about six months too early!

Aisaku:
-snip-

Let's see:

1. You didn't just remove unneeded knowledge, you removed all pretext of actually having a conversation with this thing. Not only did we actually get no questions answered whatsoever, but Shepard just sort of stood there and went, "...Kay."

2. We don't need anything before or after. We need a satisfactory conclusion to the series other than the pile of fecal matter Bioware tried passing off as an ending.

3. Should have delayed it another month. Maybe then you could've come up with an actual ending.

4. YES. THAT IS THE POINT OF AN END BOSS. TO BE AN END BOSS.
It was The Illusive Man. Every single person playing the games wanted the glory of taking that know-it-all terrorist down. It could have been so amazing. You could have made him a powerfully engineered biotic. But no, instead we fight SPACE NINJA LACKEY who was introduced OVER HALFWAY THROUGH THE FINAL GAME.

It was pathetically obvious that you wanted me to hate him, but seriously I had no motivation. "Oh, yeah, he got in my way, what a dick." But who sent him to get in my way? THE ILLUSIVE MAN.

5. Oh, yeah, you made the fans speculate alright.
They're speculating because they're hoping that the ending is ANYTHING other than the ending they got. There are some people who hope the ending was Shepard being indoctrinated. They're believing that because they don't want to believe that it was as shit as they know it was.

Kahunaburger:
So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

boag:

Kahunaburger:
So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

It's a pretty conclusive yes that at some stage in the design process the indoctrination theory was right. And we can definitely all agree that there are hints toward indoctrination elsewhere in the script. But to me it's a question like "is Deckard a replicant?" (Not, of course, to imply that Mass Effect is in Bladerunner's league as a story.) Different cuts point to different answers to this question. From this perspective, I'm curious about two things:

A) Did the devs intend the game to hint that Shepard was indoctrinated in the final released game?

B) If so, why didn't they do anything interesting with it?

Aisaku:

Casey on the End Boss
We had the final fight with the Illusive man in the game, but it just felt very Video Gamey. It didnt fit in with the themes. And really, is there a point of the end boss if only for the sake of an end boss?

Didn't stop 'em from doing the human reaper boss.

I'm glad they didn't turn TIM into a boss. Last thing that bastard needed was to waste my time more. I already spent a full damn game with him telling you what to do. The most he should get is him talking, and a renegade interrupt that lets you shoot him in the head.

Removing your ability to question the god-child is crap though. Remember Vigil, in ME1? They could have cut that down to the essentials, but then it wouldn't have been as big as it was. After talking to him, you feel enlightened, you learned things. The god-child scene looks like it lacks that, which is a damn shame.

Kahunaburger:

boag:

Kahunaburger:
So here's what I'm curious about - are all the hints at indoctrination supposed to be there, or are they an artifact of the design process?

Also, here's how to make indoctrination work with the dialogue mechanics: have auto-dialogue, with interrupts that give Shep precious seconds of free will and allow the player to make dialogue choices for a short time. How was this hard to implement?

They just admitted that part of the last ending sequence was cut, a sequence where reapers control Shep.

Thats a pretty defacto yes on the Indoctrination theory being right.

It's a pretty conclusive yes that at some stage in the design process the indoctrination theory was right. And we can definitely all agree that there are hints toward indoctrination elsewhere in the script. But to me it's a question like "is Deckard a replicant?" (Not, of course, to imply that Mass Effect is in Bladerunner's league as a story.) Different cuts point to different answers to this question. From this perspective, I'm curious about two things:

A) Did the devs intend the game to hint that Shepard was indoctrinated in the final released game?

B) If so, why didn't they do anything interesting with it?

Possibly it was intended from the Beggining, unknown why some shit would have to get cut, but according to those opening statements they cut a lot of stuff out.

Was it because of the Leaks?

Its uncertain and I dont give a shit anymore, Giving me this tiny little tidbit of info to finish up the picture makes it good in my eyes.

Smeggs:
4. YES. THAT IS THE POINT OF AN END BOSS. TO BE AN END BOSS.
It was The Illusive Man. Every single person playing the games wanted the glory of taking that know-it-all terrorist down. It could have been so amazing. You could have made him a powerfully engineered biotic. But no, instead we fight SPACE NINJA LACKEY who was introduced OVER HALFWAY THROUGH THE FINAL GAME.

It was pathetically obvious that you wanted me to hate him, but seriously I had no motivation. "Oh, yeah, he got in my way, what a dick." But who sent him to get in my way? THE ILLUSIVE MAN.

They probably think everybody has read the books He had a big role in Mass Effect: Retribution

I did actually hate that guy when he got in mij way, but that might have been because I did read the book and hate every character that was part of Cerberus. (plus he doesn't play fair)

OT: I thought something like this might happen, I only didn't think they would charge money for it -_-

But I'm beginning to make peace with the end. If I play the games again (that is a big if because that ending ruined all three games for me) I will play until Harbringer comes down, Then I'll just think that we lost and Shepard was killed by the beams. Atleast that way I have closure, everybody dies. We lose.

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
The more I hear about the ending, the less I want to play it. Its literally half an hour away. I could start the game right now and be with TIM in 5 minutes. But im still not sure I want to see the ending. Maybe I should just ignore it and be happier that way?

Nah, go play it. Just turn off your console/alt-F4 as soon as the elevator appears. You'll know what I mean when you see it. That's the point where it gets stupid. Up until then, it's pretty good.

So, when EA does this, everybody complains. But when Valve does it, nobody cares.

Y'know what would've been great solution to the TIM boss fight? A boss fight with Harbinger. Y'know, that reaper you've been hinting at would be a main antagonist since the earliest moments of ME2. Oh wait, you mean that Reaper/Turret at the very end was him? They never mentioned that... wow... so your final confrontation is a telegraphed run you automatically lose, and the last words you exchange with him were in the god awful "Arrival" DLC pack.

Y'know what I'd love as DLC that fits into the existing game? A 400 foot neon sign hanging over the beam in London that says "THE POINT WE RAN OUT OF MONEY." or "THE POINT WE STOPPED GIVING A SHIT." That I think would reflect my personal experience playing Mass Effect better than any 5 minute epilogue tailored to my Shepard.

Open to speculation, huh? So that'd be like-

See? Plenty of speculation, little resolution. Not that no resolution isn't okay but when we've reached the end of a trilogy please don't try to pull this shit, please. Or at least warn us ahead of time.

Casual Shinji:

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

I suppose it's the power... Of RELIGION AMBIGUITY!

Genuinely think it's an interesting theory though...

The Wykydtron:

Casual Shinji:

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

I suppose it's the power... Of RELIGION AMBIGUITY!

Genuinely think it's an interesting theory though...

You know what else it is?

Highly creative thinking brought on by desperation. We tend to imagine and concoct the most outrageous thoughts and ideas when presented with a unacceptable yet inescapable fact: The Mass Effect 3 endings suck galactic balls and there's nothing we can do about it. NOTHING!!!

Casual Shinji:

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

boag:

Casual Shinji:

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

No. It is just a theory! A completely looney-ass theory I might add. but there isn't a shred of evidence in support.

Why do people cling to this batshit crazy theory.

I'm not sure why people are clinging to the indoctrination theory as a good ending.

That isn't an ending. At all.

Literally nothing is resolved if that theory is true.

I agree fighting the Illusive Man would have been bad. A lot less moving than the conversation battle.

But, the end of the game still sucked. Just, everything after Shepard passes out should have been rethought. Heavily.

seditary:
I'm not sure why people are clinging to the indoctrination theory as a good ending.

That isn't an ending. At all.

Literally nothing is resolved if that theory is true.

I know right.

If Bioware does release a new ending. How are you to know thats the real ending and not just another indoctrination?

It's a bad theory (and ending) because it challenges the legitimacy of the narrative.. once you do that.. everything is completely void anyways.

boag:

Casual Shinji:

The Wykydtron:
Redact everything I have ever said about ME3's ending. It is genius, pure genius. If you go look at the Indoctrination Theory over in the Bioware forums it makes perfect sense. It's just too damn smart for its own good!

Fuck it's amazing, the basic version is... No just read it, 'tis awesome

Let me just bring up the one I read.

http://w11.zetaboards.com/Theorycraftng_HUB/topic/7688087/1/

Mind = blown

Or i'm just scrambling for any reason to believe that the ending didn't just plain suck.

I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

Then it still makes no flipping sense.

When Shep is presented the Destroy and Control options, they are highlighted by Anderson (Destroy) and TIM (Control). Meaning Shep already knew that Destroy was the right thing and Control was the wrong thing to do.

And if Shep was truly indoctrinated, why didn't the Reapers use his own trusted companions against him? And if they did and this was somehow cut from the game, then that means my choices where meaningless afterall because I was being indoctrinated.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. And if Bioware goes along with it then it's probably only to quence the massive fan rage.

Zeel:
It's a bad theory (and ending) because it challenges the legitimacy of the narrative.. once you do that.. everything is completely void anyways.

Muh? There are numerous examples in film and literature of the unreliable narrator. It's actually a pretty commonplace plot/thematic device.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnreliableNarrator

Zeel:

boag:

Casual Shinji:
I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

No. It is just a theory! A completely looney-ass theory I might add. but there isn't a shred of evidence in support.

Why do people cling to this batshit crazy theory.

Because there is now EVIDENCE THAT THEY CUT A LOT OF SHIT OUT OF THE ENDING!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/235/deletedscenes.jpg

I dont understand why you are being so obtuse about this, I thought you would be happy to be proven right about Bioware shitting on people and cutting shit out to sell to them later on.

You seem to not know when to pick your battles and come off as irrational everytime.

The Chobot incident? You were all over that.

The Prothean DLC? You were all over that.

When true shit hits the fan, you no longer any credibility and you come off as a raving lunatic.

Take this whole entire experience as a lesson, dont jump the gun, pick your battles.

I can now freely say that Bioware is a piece of shit company for pulling this crap, and that this will be last product I ever buy, I can now look forward to telling people who blindly defend bioware, that their company is full of greedy fucks that have always had shit plots since the days of Baldurs gate.

And that their only redeeming quality has been writing WITTY Dialogue.

Casual Shinji:

boag:

Casual Shinji:
I'm sure there are smart people over at Bioware, but I really think you're are giving them too much credit with this whole indoctrination theory.

They simply made 3 crappy endings. Because they genuinely thought they were good, or because making various distinct endings depended on the choices you made throughout all 3 games would've taking unreasonable amounts of time and money.

But I guess whatever helps put it behind you.

its no longer a theory, they just blurted it out, there are scenes coming out that were cut from the final game for whatever reason, and the indoctrination sequence is part of those.

Then it still makes no flipping sense.

When Shep is presented the Destroy and Control options, they are highlighted by Anderson (Destroy) and TIM (Control). Meaning Shep already knew that Destroy was the right thing and Control was the wrong thing to do.

And if Shep was truly indoctrinated, why didn't the Reapers use his own trusted companions against him? And if they did and this was somehow cut from the game, then that means my choices where meaningless afterall because I was being indoctrinated.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. And if Bioware goes along with it then it's probably only to quence the massive fan rage.

Understand, everything after Shep falls to the ground is Indoctrination, the Options are there to either let Shep Free himself from it, or Accept the Indoctrination.

Your choice in the end does matter, because you either became indoctrinated or you didnt.

BloatedGuppy:

Zeel:
It's a bad theory (and ending) because it challenges the legitimacy of the narrative.. once you do that.. everything is completely void anyways.

Muh? There are numerous examples in film and literature of the unreliable narrator. It's actually a pretty commonplace plot/thematic device.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnreliableNarrator

For the unreliable narrator thing to work, it has to be established early and work with the premise of the book/literature. I've seen it done successfully as well, its part of the experience. It also has to be made obvious so we don't get a bunch of looney toons spinning 'theories'.

However, with this game, one about choices and all that shiny rpg goodness an unreliable narrative only works against their premise.

Zeel:
For the unreliable narrator thing to work, it has to be established early and work with the premise of the book/literature. I've seen it done successfully as well, its part of the experience. It also has to be made obvious so we don't get a bunch of looney toons spinning 'theories'.

However, with this game, one about choices and all that shiny rpg goodness an unreliable narrative only works against their premise.

Eh, I disagree. Unreliable narrator is often very subtle, ala Fight Club or Usual Suspects, and the reveal only comes out at the end of the story. The clues are small and easily overlooked. You're not always trying to telegraph the fact you have an unreliable narrator.

I'm not saying this is what their plan was all along, or anything, just that there's sufficient material there for them to say "UNRELIABLE NARRATOR! INDOCTRINATION!" and retcon an ending in that isn't blindingly stupid.

They almost certainly won't, though. They'll tell us they're very sorry we didn't like the ending and explain why they thought the endings were fun and promise to do better next time and please buy DLC.

boag:

Because there is now EVIDENCE THAT THEY CUT A LOT OF SHIT OUT OF THE ENDING!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/235/deletedscenes.jpg

I dont understand why you are being so obtuse about this, I thought you would be happy to be proven right about Bioware shitting on people and cutting shit out to sell to them later on.

You seem to not know when to pick your battles and come off as irrational everytime.

The Chobot incident? You were all over that.

The Prothean DLC? You were all over that.

When true shit hits the fan, you no longer any credibility and you come off as a raving lunatic.

Take this whole entire experience as a lesson, dont jump the gun, pick your battles.

I can now freely say that Bioware is a piece of shit company for pulling this crap, and that this will be last product I ever buy, I can now look forward to telling people who blindly defend bioware, that their company is full of greedy fucks that have always had shit plots since the days of Baldurs gate.

And that their only redeeming quality has been writing WITTY Dialogue.

OKAY THERE MISTER!!

You just hop on your magic bunny and ride the rainbow train to Narnia!

Seriously man. You're being ridiculous.

Where we disagree is the indoctrination theory. it just doesn't hold water. Yes, maybe they were planning it out. But alot of things get removed before release. For example, you and I know about that dark matter alternate ending. Just because it was planned doesn't mean that was their intention.

I honestly don't think they are going to sell the indoctrination "ending" thing. if they do. Listen, I'll be here to say "my bad" "Bioware are giant pricks"

Hell, maybe i'm missing something here. If you have something that can be considered evidence in your favour, I'd like to see it.

the deleted "scenes" you are talking about are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNv2fjnszg

Edit: And spare me with your little anti-bioware tirade. We both know in two weeks you'll be back at Best buy preordering another one of their useless games.

Even if this were true, it is suggested that only one ending is correct, which defies the player choice philosophy Bioware had. It limits Shep living to just one of the choices made.

Zeel:

boag:

Because there is now EVIDENCE THAT THEY CUT A LOT OF SHIT OUT OF THE ENDING!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/235/deletedscenes.jpg

I dont understand why you are being so obtuse about this, I thought you would be happy to be proven right about Bioware shitting on people and cutting shit out to sell to them later on.

You seem to not know when to pick your battles and come off as irrational everytime.

The Chobot incident? You were all over that.

The Prothean DLC? You were all over that.

When true shit hits the fan, you no longer any credibility and you come off as a raving lunatic.

Take this whole entire experience as a lesson, dont jump the gun, pick your battles.

I can now freely say that Bioware is a piece of shit company for pulling this crap, and that this will be last product I ever buy, I can now look forward to telling people who blindly defend bioware, that their company is full of greedy fucks that have always had shit plots since the days of Baldurs gate.

And that their only redeeming quality has been writing WITTY Dialogue.

OKAY THERE MISTER!!

You just hop on your magic bunny and ride the rainbow train to Narnia!

Seriously man. You're being ridiculous.

Where we disagree is the indoctrination theory. it just doesn't hold water. Yes, maybe they were planning it out. But alot of things get removed before release. For example, you and I know about that dark matter alternate ending. Just because it was planned doesn't mean that was their intention.

I honestly don't think they are going to sell the indoctrination "ending" thing. if they do. Listen, I'll be here to say "my bad" "Bioware are giant pricks"

Hell, maybe i'm missing something here. If you have something that can be considered evidence in your favour, I'd like to see it.

the deleted "scenes" you are talking about are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNv2fjnszg

Edit: And spare me with your little anti-bioware tirade. We both know in two weeks you'll be back at Best buy preordering another one of their useless games.

Dude, you just RE POSTED the same shit I posted in my original reply.

I keep telling you, they cut a ton of shit out, the Indoctrination thing was real and It got CUT!

You just RE POSTED evidence I already Gave you!

And a reply to you edit buddy, The only Bioware Game ive played Aside from ME in the last 10 years was KOTOR, and It was a piece of shit, I honestly dont think Bioware will come up with anything good anytime soon, not even ME1 was as good some people paint it.

BloatedGuppy:

Zeel:
For the unreliable narrator thing to work, it has to be established early and work with the premise of the book/literature. I've seen it done successfully as well, its part of the experience. It also has to be made obvious so we don't get a bunch of looney toons spinning 'theories'.

However, with this game, one about choices and all that shiny rpg goodness an unreliable narrative only works against their premise.

Eh, I disagree. Unreliable narrator is often very subtle, ala Fight Club or Usual Suspects, and the reveal only comes out at the end of the story. The clues are small and easily overlooked. You're not always trying to telegraph the fact you have an unreliable narrator.

I'm not saying this is what their plan was all along, or anything, just that there's sufficient material there for them to say "UNRELIABLE NARRATOR! INDOCTRINATION!" and retcon an ending in that isn't blindingly stupid.

They almost certainly won't, though. They'll tell us they're very sorry we didn't like the ending and explain why they thought the endings were fun and promise to do better next time and please buy DLC.

I'm not saying it has to be FULL BLOWN IN YOUR FACE type of thing. I'm saying if the best evidence we can scrounge up is blurry pictures and "glowing eyes" then the theory has little weight. A good "unreliable narrative" can be proven.

I just doubt Bioware is that.... talented.. so to speak. An "indoctrination" ending would take some serious planning. Nothing about the ending suggests planning.

boag:
Understand, everything after Shep falls to the ground is Indoctrination, the Options are there to either let Shep Free himself from it, or Accept the Indoctrination.

Your choice in the end does matter, because you either became indoctrinated or you didnt.

Okay, but then why does Shepard see Anderson doing the supposed wrong thing and TIM doing the supposed right one, if he's indoctrinated?

One of the points that apparently proves this theory is that the Paragon colour is used to highlight the BAD choice and the Renegade colour is used to highlight the RIGHT choice. So as to (supposedly) make Shep think he's doing the right thing when he's actually making the wrong choice, right?

But then why would Shep invision Anderson (his most trusted friend and father figure) choosing for the Renegade coloured option if the Reapers wanted him to believe that it was the wrong choice?

You see how this theory isn't making any sense in the context of what's actually on screen?

boag:

Zeel:

boag:

Because there is now EVIDENCE THAT THEY CUT A LOT OF SHIT OUT OF THE ENDING!

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/235/deletedscenes.jpg

I dont understand why you are being so obtuse about this, I thought you would be happy to be proven right about Bioware shitting on people and cutting shit out to sell to them later on.

You seem to not know when to pick your battles and come off as irrational everytime.

The Chobot incident? You were all over that.

The Prothean DLC? You were all over that.

When true shit hits the fan, you no longer any credibility and you come off as a raving lunatic.

Take this whole entire experience as a lesson, dont jump the gun, pick your battles.

I can now freely say that Bioware is a piece of shit company for pulling this crap, and that this will be last product I ever buy, I can now look forward to telling people who blindly defend bioware, that their company is full of greedy fucks that have always had shit plots since the days of Baldurs gate.

And that their only redeeming quality has been writing WITTY Dialogue.

OKAY THERE MISTER!!

You just hop on your magic bunny and ride the rainbow train to Narnia!

Seriously man. You're being ridiculous.

Where we disagree is the indoctrination theory. it just doesn't hold water. Yes, maybe they were planning it out. But alot of things get removed before release. For example, you and I know about that dark matter alternate ending. Just because it was planned doesn't mean that was their intention.

I honestly don't think they are going to sell the indoctrination "ending" thing. if they do. Listen, I'll be here to say "my bad" "Bioware are giant pricks"

Hell, maybe i'm missing something here. If you have something that can be considered evidence in your favour, I'd like to see it.

the deleted "scenes" you are talking about are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNv2fjnszg

Edit: And spare me with your little anti-bioware tirade. We both know in two weeks you'll be back at Best buy preordering another one of their useless games.

Dude, you just RE POSTED the same shit I posted in my original reply.

I keep telling you, they cut a ton of shit out, the Indoctrination thing was real and It got CUT!

You just RE POSTED evidence I already Gave you!

And a reply to you edit buddy, The only Bioware Game ive played Aside from ME in the last 10 years was KOTOR, and It was a piece of shit, I honestly dont think Bioware will come up with anything good anytime soon, not even ME1 was as good some people paint it.

Alright. let's go at this a different way. can I see evidence of the indoctrination being a "REAL THING" that got cut?

Even if the indoctrination theory is true, i still hate it.

You have to be consistent with the game. Being straightforward all the way until the end and then vagueing out on us is a horrible idea.

Dark souls did vague right. You pretty much know nothing about the world and you have to piece the information together with small bits of dialogue, item descriptions, and general observations. The game needed to be pieced together and the holes needed to be filled with different theorems. Most enemies and bosses didn't talk and you had to actively search for their stories.

If one of the bosses came out and started babbling exposition, you would be confused and knocked out of immersion because that's not the games style.

Mass effect is 75% exposition and 25% gunfights. There's barely anything left to the imagination in 99% of the plot.

You know what they should have done? Explained everything. That's what the game has been doing, and that shouldn't have changed in the last 5 minutes.

Where the reapers come from, what's their true purpose, everything. They should have humanized the reapers. That's what mass effect does well, it shows the other side. They explained the geth, they explained cerberus, they explained saren, they explained everything.

I was fine with the indoctrination thing a little while ago, but now apparently there won't be an ending DLC to mass effect 3. We don't know what happens to shepherd when she survives the indoctrination. Is the earth destroyed? do the reapers get destroyed? Did a reaper gopher drill into corpseshep's back and raise his/her chest a little bit while it was eating?

The game doesn't have an ending. If the indoctrination thing is true, we don't know what happens, we just know shepherds chest raises in some rubble.

Maybe i read the article wrong and there will be ending DLC. Hopefully free ending DLC.

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