MovieBob's thoughts on the ME3 ending controversy

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Hannibal942:
I love Moviebob, but I couldn't disagree more.

Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if he was giving an opinion on something he knows something about. And wasn't flooding his argument with hyperbole to make up for lack of an argument.

Hyper-space:

boag:
No one is holding them at gun point, they are free to not change anything and tell customers to fuck off, but in doing so they will probably get less repeat customers.

And they didnt seem to give to many fucks when they canned Karpyshyn, when his artistic integrity became a bother to them.

No, they are just blowing everything out of proportion, going on a whine-crusade for the better part of 3 weeks now. They only tried to use child's play as a vehicle for their own selfish ambitions and to shame people who actually called them out on their bullshit with "Oh, you must not like CHARITY".

Shrugging all of the sudden and saying "We didn't do anything" doesn't cut it.

Remember Kids: If large corporations whose sole goal is to make profit whatever the means use Charities in order to promote their product and increase profit, then it is completely okay! But dirty Plebs such as yourselves doing this is a big, no-no!

EDIT: Okay, I read up on this Karpyshyn guy and apparently he left because of *gasp* his own personal project (something called Child of Fire), also that he is going to write a TOR novel. Meaning that he probably wasn't canned because of his artistic integrity, considering hes still pursuing projects for Bioware.

Ah yes, because having Walters thrown in to take over his job wasnt absolutely disheartening right? and the rest of the writers just had to swallow their artistic integrity so that Walters and Hudson could do whatever the fuck they wanted, so its ok for them to tell them to shove it, but its not ok for the customer to do so, got it.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

Devoneaux:

Hannibal942:
I love Moviebob, but I couldn't disagree more.

Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if he was giving an opinion on something he knows something about. And wasn't flooding his argument with hyperbole to make up for lack of an argument.

Honestly, if you've never played the game or had any investment in the story or universe, can you really say what should or should be done? It feels like half the shit the "pundits" of game journalism say is just designed to get page hits. It's hard to defend ME as "art" when its storytelling this bad.

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395

Thanks Shamus. You've described it perfectly.

Devoneaux:
Really if the story can't stand up on it's own without an artistic statement to shield it from criticism, then the artistic statement deserves neither my respect or recognition. So if the artistic integrety has to go to make the story make sense, then so be it, don't care. You want your message to remain in tact; I want what I paid for. Guess who takes precedence?

10/10

I don't think mister Bob Chipman understand that not all games are art, much like not all paintings are art.
We have games like Limbo, pretentious, artsy and in my opinion, quite boring[1].
Then we have games that Bob would call products, lets say for instance League of Legends. It's not for everyone however it's really open for new people, mainstream and not even considered to be close to art.
Would you really class these both games as art because they are both games? Of course not. I just said that.

I think Bob also sees to fail that GAMES are entertainment first, anything else second. Or so they should be.

[1] This does not apply to all artsy games, I'm talking strictly Limbo.

Falcon123:
I addressed this point with another person here, but the Fallout 3 ending change was different because the developers saw a problem with it and changed it of their own accord so that the story may continue. These changes would have happened regardless of player feedback.

I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that. I linked an interview earlier in the thread where Todd Howard clearly stated that despite their initial inclination to be defensive, they had to admit their mistake and fix it.

That account does not agree with yours.

Because I've ever cared what MovieBob's opinion was before?

If you want your game to be lauded as art, then don't cop out with a plothole-filled ending in the first place after leading your entire fanbase on saying that's not how it would end.

Trying to claim Mass Effect is a work of art anyway is like trying to claim that Diehard should be played at international film festivals. It's a good action game with some good writing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

In its base essence, Mass Effect was just another BOOM-GOES-THE-ALIEN.

When a game finally actually puts me to tears, crying to the heavens asking, "WHAT COULD IT MEAN?! THAT WAS SO BEAUTIFUL!" Then I'll consider it art.

I punched way too many Geth into walls to keep up an illusion of anything above a good action RPG.

Devoneaux:
Really if the story can't stand up on it's own without an artistic statement to shield it from criticism, then the artistic statement deserves neither my respect or recognition. So if the artistic integrety has to go to make the story make sense, then so be it, don't care. You want your message to remain in tact; I want what I paid for. Guess who takes precedence?

That.That. That couldn't have been said better.

Falcon123:
Sadly, I'm about to get on a flight, so I can't give your response the dignity it deserves. I'll just have to say that it saddens me that we've reached the day in which WE decide the standard all art should meet, and that the artist is not allowed to fail unless they are willing to change everything to what WE want. Art can be bad sometimes, and you have to accept it and move on. To me, that people are unwilling to do that is the far bigger mess

Right, because it's not like I've ever played a game I didn't like without complaining about it. To be frank: get real.

Virtually no one has an issue with moving on from a game they didn't subjectively enjoy. All of us do it all the time. The issue here is that we have a massive interlinked trilogy where the creator has gone out of there way to imbue us, the players, with a sense of ownership (or at least a stake) in the universe, and has made very specific promises regarding the content of the ending. Now people are understandably upset, and want the matter resolved. It's outright wrong to use a concept like artistic integrity as a defense against this, unless we want to discard the meaning of the word "integrity".

Smeggs:
Trying to claim Mass Effect is a work of art anyway is like trying to claim that Diehard should be played at international film festivals. It's a good action game with some good writing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

In its essence, Mass Effect was just another BOOM-GOES-THE-ALIEN.

I strongly disagree; all of the Mass Effect games' stories elicited some serious emotions in me, which tends to be an indicator of something belonging in the category of "art".

What didn't do that for me? Well, for instance, the movie Alien, or the game Prey. Those are "BOOM-GOES-THE-ALIEN", quite literally, but Mass Effect is rather different. After all, what games can make one laugh and cry? Not very many.

I'm not exaggerating, I was actually on the verge of tears at certain moments, such as

And there were actually pieces of dialogue that made me laugh out loud. I know people use the abbreviation "lol" as shorthand for "I think that was funny", but I did actually laugh, which is something that's quite rare since people are much less likely to laugh when alone.

And the ending was painful to experience. It was difficult to process and extremely bitter sweet. Just like the ending to the trilogy "His Dark Materials".

Now THAT is what I call a work of art. It's not always pleasant, it's not always easy to digest, but it makes one hell of an impression.

Games are Art? Sure... I can work with that.

In a Gallery there is a big, beautiful painting there that captures your emotions and makes you feel incredible. You love this painting but... wait... look there there's a big black smudge!

What do you do? You tell someone, tell them about that smudge that ruins the entirety of the Art. He tells someone else and someone else, soon they get the artist over and say "Sorry to be the bearer of bad new, but there's a smudge on your art".

He says. "Yeah, I put it there on purpose. Wanted to catch your attention, make you remember this image".

Everyone is quiet, rather stunned as the artist looks around with a goofy smile on his face. Then the original one, the noticer of the smudge yells. "WE WOULD HAVE REMEMBERED THIS PAINTING BECAUSE IT'S BEAUTIFUL. NOT BECAUSE OF A GOD-DAMN-SMUDGE!"

I'm sorry if I missed something, but is it impossible for something to be both art and a product?

Like, if I tell someone that I'm going to make them a 50 dollar portrait of their family, and I show them examples of previous work and explain the details of what I'm going to make, and they agree to it, I can't make them a portrait with random clown noses superimposed over the image and still expect to be paid.

If I was doing it for free, just for myself, I could slap on all the clown noses I wanted. However, if someone else is paying for a certain type or quality of product, then I make it. No questions asked. Any "artistic integrity" flies out of the window when you are being specifically commissioned.

Hannibal942:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395

Thanks Shamus. You've described it perfectly.

Man, I shouldn't have read that. I was slowly working my way towards acceptance of shit like the Star Child and the Cycle. Now I hate it more than ever.

It's just so...so...indefensible.

Sure it is an "art Form" *says in Posh Snobby Accent* But is an interactive art and this is the game that we where promised that out decisions where going to mean a dam throughout the game. Calling us Crybabies is kinda low man.

BloatedGuppy:

Hannibal942:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395

Thanks Shamus. You've described it perfectly.

Man, I shouldn't have read that. I was slowly working my way towards acceptance of shit like the Star Child and the Cycle. Now I hate it more than ever.

It's just so...so...indefensible.

Sorry. D:

I try to put it behind me and forget about this whole debacle, but then I hear a new news story like Moviebob's idiotic comments or Bioware's promise of clarification and I get sucked back into debate.

goliath6711:

Sylveria:

Falcon123:

See my response to the quote above you. Vote with your wallet. Boycott if you want. But you don't have the right to tell them how to do their jobs any more than they have the right to tell you the same.

People have the right to complain about the quality of a product. As long as games cost money and EA/Bioware refers to the users as "customers," games are a product and an art form.

Uh, no.

Paying for a product does NOT give you the right to do anything you want with everything related to it. You think your $60+ gives you the right to go up to the Bioware offices with a baseball bat and take a swing at everything and everyone inside to vent your displeasure?

I am worried about you. You need to go check yourself into a medical facility because whatever you are smoking... yeah it is not going over well with your system.

Cause I am guessing you would have to be on something to equate complaining about a product you payed for, you know, expressing your rights as a consumer... to assaulting someone with a deadly weapon because you disagree with them.

Do you seriously think that consumers have no right to share their opinion on a product when it is bad? Are we living in 1984 now?

MrLumber:
-snip-

Well, in the good old days (renassance and classic greeks for example) the artistic creation belonged to whomever payed for it, and it was fine. If you didn't liked El Greko portrait of you and you comissioned it, then he would freaking change it; the current ides of "artistic ingegrity" understood as that an artist has the right over the work he sold have more in common with copyright laws than with what artist thought were their rights before the XX century. As for "the definition of art"... well, there is not one and currently it's used kind of a synonyms for whatever you like in the common speech.

And why should the videogames be judged worthy or not of being art by how good are the worst of them, or how low can a company stumble at a point? Did we judge literary art by the common everyday writings or the best of them? Cinema? Music? If Bioware wants to redo the end, fine, if not, it's still fine; either way Bioware is not trying to do art with his games and it's unlikely that videogames in general get accepted as art or not based on what they do.

Oh so many people will feel soo stupid in the near future.

Devoneaux:
Really if the story can't stand up on it's own without an artistic statement to shield it from criticism, then the artistic statement deserves neither my respect or recognition. So if the artistic integrety has to go to make the story make sense, then so be it, don't care. You want your message to remain in tact; I want what I paid for. Guess who takes precedence?

Sweet jesus thank you

I don't think i've wanted to punch some of these "ART ABOVE ALL" people so bad in the face before, dear god.

this ending is OBJECTIVELY complete trash, I'm not even going to call them endings because the way they are now, they are nearly identical that it doesn't even matter.

Chairman Miaow:
I like the way Bob presents his stuff, but he is way off with this one. When Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Sherlock Holmes back to life, did it set the artform back 10 years? (well technically yes, it had been ten years since he killed him, but shhh.)

Look, a medium can produce ART or it can produce PRODUCT. If games can be changed at the whims of fanboys, then they are just product and we have no right to demand that Ebert etc take them (or US) "seriously."

This is just bullshit. Is Twilight art? Transformers? Human Centipede? A medium can have art and product at the same time. A film can be both art and product. If these things weren't product, they wouldn't get such massive budgets. Look at Star Wars. Infinite numbers of spin-offs and toy lines just to make money. Tell me that isn't a product.

To be honest, this isn't fans asking Bioware to lose their artistic integrity, it's them asking Bioware to get it back, to make an ending that fits the story, that makes sense, that is true to what they told the world about their game.

I think you are aiming a bit too high there brosef.

According to bobby boy, things can either be art or a product right? Well then... I guess pornos like Backdoor Bandits 5, The Cumming, Debbie does Dallas and what have you are all ART!

Things like Transformers, The Expendables, and Twilight are high art to bobby boy! afterall, they have to be art, they cant be products because cinema is serious business!

Eh, I think his statements were a bit much. I'm curious. With DLC and the ability to retroactively change ANYTHING (glares at george lucas) this is the first time in history that this kind of emediate alteration has been possible. It's interesting. And I'm interested to see what happens if they do change the ending. I don't think it's a good thing that they caved, or that people demanded it of them in the first place. But I don't think it's terrible either. Not yet anyway.
But me personally. I agree: that's the ending okay? You didn't like it? Fine! Move on! The trilogy is over now, you don't have to carry it around any longer. I reviled the ending as much as everyone else, so I had a choice: learn to live with it, or bash my head against a wall until I forgot ever having discovered the series. Which did I choose? It doesn't matter!... The second option obviously. But I accepted that I didn't like the ending.
You can play this game if you want Bioware (the caving in game, not the game everyone's talking about) but be careful, cuz it's dangerous game indeed.

Ultratwinkie:
Oh for fuck sake. Mass Effect isn't art, its not even a coherent story other than fan wank with a different skin.

All Bioware stories are the SAME every single time. The only difference is what kind of women they put on screen, but use the same tired archetypes.

Saying Mass Effect's ending is the worst thing to happen is like saying "the expendables" was the worst thing to happen to movies. Mass Effect is a product, and was marketed like one. Games like "dear Esther" are art, with some games in between. Gaming doesn't have to solely follow Mass Effect no more than COD. Consoles are no longer the only game in town for gaming. Demographics are changing, PC is gaining ground with alarming speed. Developers are finally tearing off their shackles. If Bob cannot understand the difference of how gaming has changed, he might as well live under a rock and write about the latest news... from 1987...

Gaming can STILL be art if we move out from the shadow of the dumbed down, popular games. Art is NEVER mainstream. Pop culture doesn't care for art, and it never has. The population cares for overblown rehashed shit. As long as a collect few make and consume art games, gaming is art. Period.

Trying to make art into mainstream pop culture is like bringing the Mona Lisa to a frat house party and asking them "how does this painting make you feel?"

That is perhaps one of the greatest mental images anyone has ever given me, bravo to you good sir.

Anyway what were we talking about? Bob uses baseless hyperbolic absolute argument that everyone destroys? okay seems like a normal week on the escapist. Anyway art and products are not mutually exclusive and saying that is absolutely silly. Art is merely anything that was crafted by people with a message they want to tell. Of course they would try to make it amazing and entertaining so they could sell it so that it would be a sustainable thing to do.

I'm going to break away from a bunch of people and say that calling games art isn't going to make them better. mediocrity sells, trying to make games artier isn't going to suddenly bolster sales any great deal for the large companies so why waste the money? Mass effect is pretty pretentious anyway, hiding behind aspirations of being art in order to appeal to game enthusiasts. The thing is though instead of going "I have a vision that I feel videogames could really deliver" they went "I want to make a game that could be called art because then I'd be so super special awesome." The way the medium approaches being art is totally backwards and obnoxious. Mass Effect sacrificed the small amount of artistic integrity it had, so what? plenty of things have done that, nobody cares save for diehard fans?

Also why do we want videogames to be art? So people take them seriously? their opinion is irrelevant because they aren't going to play them. If somebody has a vision artistic games will be made, not this backwards notion of people without a vision looking at traditional art and going "how can we make our medium more like this?"

Like I said though why listen to Bob? He thought Metroid Other M was good.

The thing is, video games are still in the very early stages of really being taken seriously at all from the general public. People who read, watch tv, watch movies don't exactly get stereotypes placed on them. Those things are generally more accepted than playing video games. Now, it doesn't mean that saying you play video games is going to be like being radio active where people try to avoid you. Maybe it wasn't really looked at fondly when you said you played video games at one point, but it is getting more accepted.

MovieBob is mad because of how people are reacting to the ending. I mean, maybe there were points where it was getting out of hand. I haven't exactly seen them, but, then again, there really aren't many places I go for discussions....in fact, it's pretty rare that I actually post anything. And this is really the only forum I look at anyway. With that being said, almost every new topic I see is about the Mass Effect 3 ending. And you know what? It's fine that people are mad about the ending, it's fine that people are voicing there opinion on what they thought. What MovieBob is basically saying is just don't react to the point where it's going to have the general public who don't normally play video games to see us as childish and whiny and so far out there from normal people, and it will also confirm the people's beliefs who already believe that in the first place. We just need a better light shined on us. That's what he's talking about when it comes to taking games seriously, because it involves us too.

Then, there comes the argument for stuff like movies and books where stuff got changed. The thing is, those things have had time to be accepted and well respected to the general public. Sure, there are still people who probably don't normally read or watch movies or listen to music, but the said people aren't going to look at the others and shake their head because of the form of entertainment they like. With video games still being kind of in the early stages, it's still a battle for it to be taken seriously by everybody. So with stuff like this, it may set us back a little. I think MovieBob was exaggerating when he said a "decade" but it's not good when gamers will act in a certain way that's just going to further the stereotype on us. So it's really unfair to compare video games to books and movies when it comes to this. I mean, sure, you can compare them, but in the way the general public sees them though, not so much.

As for his whole art thing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S79zdCa7jI&list=UUy92fXa6yBrLnKdW1pYJlMw&index=5&feature=plcp

Alright, yes, I follow MovieBob probably a lot more than most people on here do. So yes, I am biased. But, hey. Aren't we all? I'm just trying to say, there's a lot more coming from this than a lot of you seem to think.

MovieBob called people whining fanboys? Hypocrite level: Dumbass

I fail to see how a half-assed ending crawling with plotholes classifies as art, but then again I never was someone who understood art very well...Also, why is it that criticism is such a bad thing nowadays? Especially if it involves gaming? So if we dont like something, are we just meant to shut up and take it? Even though we paid for it?

Reaper69lol:
I fail to see how a half-assed ending crawling with plotholes classifies as art, but then again I never was someone who understood art very well...Also, why is it that criticism is such a bad thing nowadays? Especially if it involves gaming? So if we dont like something, are we just meant to shut up and take it? Even though we paid for it?

Art isn't synonymous with good. There are plenty of duds in the world of art. Though I'd hardly classify Mass Effect 3 as a whole a dud (most of it is among the best video gaming I've experienced in nearly 20 years of playing games), the ending sure is.

Can we just let MovieBob have his own opinion? (He's probably missed some info as it seems a bit mislead when it comes to fact, but I digress)
Yes Bioware is being a massive dick at this moment in time, being whored between fans and EA, but the Fans aren't helping. Doing that Childs Play thing showed how much you cared, a stupid amount. EA Now thinks that if they release a game with a crap ending they can get away with it, because the fans will give them more money to 'fix' it, then they release it with a charge.
If we all stopped giving a shit, then we would have won

I'm pretty damn glad to see people finally getting upset with Bob over something! I've never played the Mass Effect games (RPGs in general aren't my thing) but it's nice to see that people can finally see how vindictive he is.

On his Escape to the Movies show, he'll take any opportunity he can to blast Vin Diesel or J.J. Abrhams for any damn reason he pleases. Anyone who didn't think that all three of the Transformers films are flaming pieces of garbadge must be morons who are a threat to society in general. Liking the Expendables or the Fast and the Furious films puts you on the same level as the asshole jock crowd who probably picked on him in high school. If you like modern FPS games, then you are also on that same level. Gaming was only great when Nintendo ruled the world. On and on and on it goes. The guy has such a East coast elitist persona that it must make him think that he has carte blanche to just make generalizations like the ones that he just made about the Mass Effect endings controversy. Glad that its out in the open now.

Because literature was taken back decades when Arthur Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life after an uproar by the fans. The same happened to movies when Blade Runner was re-released as the director's cut version.

This is all a simple matter of retconning, which is something that an avid fan of comics, such as Bob, should understand. Unless he means to claim that comics are not art, which I sincerely doubt. Fan uproars have changed many stories. Why can't Mass Effect change for the same reason? Why is it barred from doing something that works of other mediums have done?

Theron Julius:
Because literature was taken back decades when Arthur Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life after an uproar by the fans. The same happened to movies when Blade Runner was re-released as the director's cut version.

This is all a simple matter of retconning, which is something that an avid fan of comics, such as Bob, should understand. Unless he means to claim that comics are not art, which I sincerely doubt. Fan uproars have changed many stories. Why can't Mass Effect change for the same reason? Why is it barred from doing something that works of other mediums have done?

Not to mention people were so outraged by Highlander 2 they began releasing their own edits to remove all references to the Planet Zeist.

On topic: While I do agree the ending controversy has gotten a little out of hand (though it does speak to the quality of the series how passionate some people are getting), I have to ask you something Bob. Is what you're doing any better? Is calling people names really any better than people complaining about the ending of a game?

Cryo84R:
Art can suck!

Damn straight. See Dadaism or Avant Garde.

Sentox6:
Anyone who has experienced the endings of ME3 can attest that this is the exact opposite of the actual content we received. The importance of "artistic integrity" should not be used as a shield to avoid this. Clear statements were made about the type of ending players would receive, and those statements were not adhered to. Is moral integrity worth less than a concept of artistic integrity? Is artistic integrity a defence against simple bad business?

About all these cries of 'artistic integrity': where were they a few months ago, when a Mass Effect novel came out that was so indefensibly awful that Bioware had to agree to have it rewritten? How is this different? Even by artistic standards, this ending is a failure.

Sure, Bioware has the right to make whatever sort of game they want. But if I buy that game because they said "the decisions [I] make completely shape [my] experience and outcome" and that I will "get some closure," and those things turn out to be untrue, I have the right to request changes. And they have the right to say no. And the next time they ask me to buy one of their games, I'll have the right to remember how much they value their artistic integrity.

Just saying.

Ultratwinkie:
Oh for fuck sake. Mass Effect isn't art, its not even a coherent story other than fan wank with a different skin.

All Bioware stories are the SAME every single time. The only difference is what kind of women they put on screen, but use the same tired archetypes.

Saying Mass Effect's ending is the worst thing to happen is like saying "the expendables" was the worst thing to happen to movies. Mass Effect is a product, and was marketed like one. Games like "dear Esther" are art, with some games in between. Gaming doesn't have to solely follow Mass Effect no more than COD. Consoles are no longer the only game in town for gaming. Demographics are changing, PC is gaining ground with alarming speed. Developers are finally tearing off their shackles. If Bob cannot understand the difference of how gaming has changed, he might as well live under a rock and write about the latest news... from 1987...

Gaming can STILL be art if we move out from the shadow of the dumbed down, popular games. Art is NEVER mainstream. Pop culture doesn't care for art, and it never has. The population cares for overblown rehashed shit. As long as a collect few make and consume art games, gaming is art. Period.

Trying to make art into mainstream pop culture is like bringing the Mona Lisa to a frat house party and asking them "how does this painting make you feel?"

You HAVE to be fucking kidding. The Mona Lisa. A portrait done on commission for a third party by the artist with the most widespread "popular" recognition at the time.

DaVinci was a celebrity, even in his time he was considered a genius, and he made his works for profit. He had the Sforza family pay his living in exchange for the application of his genius to whatever THEY wanted. The last supper, was on commission, with guidelines. The mechanical theatre (now sadly lost) was built for the amusement of the Sforzas, and you're seriously telling me art has to be done for art's sake? That popular culture can't appreciate art?

What about Shakespeare? The most appreciated writer of his time? Are you saying The Tempest is not art? Or Romeo and Juliet? Because they had quite the box office success.

And what about Greek tragedies, Homer's epics, the Aeneid, Dante's Divine Comedy?

Most artists we know today, most artists the critic community would never dare insult with anything less than utter and lavish praise, were famous and appreciated by the public in their time. There are very few exceptions, and even then it's just because afterwards something very similar to their styles came into fashion (Van Gogh for instance). If they weren't loved by the public enough to get widespread recognition at some point, we wouldn't know who they were.

You can play artist all you want, truth is no matter how hard you try, if people don't like your art, nobody will remember it, and you will be consigned to oblivion in a single generation. Write/paint something people like, and you will be immortal. Like Shakespeare, DaVinci, Homer (who probably never existed, but that's beside the point), Vergil, Dante Alighieri and even Van Gogh, saved by the bell as he may have been.

Grow up you snob with no historical perspective.

The Mass Effect series is filled catering, fan service and streamlining, but all of a sudden they care about artistic integrity...

How is ME3 not art? It brought people in, caused them to feel like they had an effect on the story, like what they did was important. It did this so well to so many people that the fans actually took the ending so seriously they felt betrayed at the ending. They researched why it was bad, made their opinions based on fact and their experiences with the game.

And you know what wasn't said by any of them? "It's a videogame, how the hell could you expect an engaging story from a VIDEO GAME of all mediums?" From a AAA title no less.

If that's not taking games seriously or treating them like art, I don't know what is.

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