LilithSlave: I think you're pretty deluded if you think that playing a game about raising animals or something is horrible and shallow, while shooting things randomly is some kind of high peak of human behavior. Duke Nukem is a power fantasy. And it's less shallow than "To the Moon"? Please. Not to mention the entire Survival Horror genre, which is by nature the opposite of a power fantasy. So you think that the entire survival horror genre is shallow in comparison to something like Duke Nukem? Please.
One could also argue that MMORPGs are a lot more of a power fantasy in comparison to wRPGs, which are more about exploration, discovery, and self expression. While MMORPGs are more about pure statistics and strength. Is the wRPG more shallow than the wRPG by its focus on exploration and discovery instead of personal gain?
Furthermore, you seem to be agreeing with the idea that black people, poor people, women, homosexuals, and so forth, are shallow in comparison to white people, rich people, men, and heterosexuals. That's disgusting.
Uh, don't stealth edit please.
It's less shallow to simulate destruction because it is closer to the ideal of exerting power over your surroundings (will to power.) That's not to say farming games are devoid of will to power though, you certainly exert your control in them.
Is To the Moon another fucking "artgame?" OF COURSE Duke is more meaningfull and complex than any of those pos (if To the Moon is not an art game I apoligize but it has a really pretentious sounding name.)
Survival Horror are power fantasy. Just like Demon's Souls, Shmups or fighting a godlike diamond level SCer. They empower the player by letting them face adversity in an attempt to conquer it.
Uh there are mechanically complex MMO (EVE) and mechanically complex wrpg (Fallout). Wrpg are not about exploration and discovery, they are about making decisions of consequnce on the world (will to power.) EVE and Fallout allow the player to have huge effects on the world, while Runescape allows people to to level up and pvp eachother to no real consequence.
Saying underprivelaged people are shallower is "disgusting", please save the fucking moralizing. Kings in the old days were all about conducting wars and shit, peasants were concerned with doing the jobs their crappy lives required of them, they were clearly shallow in comparison. It isn't about race either, in western society black people have less power but in other societies they have taken master morality to it's height by becoming dictators (will to power.) In Nietzsche terms slave morality is shallow, master morality is profound plain and simple.
Halo Fanboy: Power fantasies aren't just the aesthetics of videogames, they are also the mechanics of videogames and competetive games period.
I don't actually have a problem with a degree of power fantasy in video games. As I've stated before, I disagree with the machismo direction. Or at least that's what I disagree with most. That which props up masculinity on a pedastul.
However, power fantasy is not what makes good art. And is not a consistent part in Games tend to mostly have this mostly just because they're "games", and games have never been held in high regard in terms of art and other media. It's arguable that people in more privileged media regard video games as less closely to art because "they're just games". And thus why video games struggled so long to be considered "art".
I'm also a bit confused as to how you're comparing and contrasting aesthetics and mechanics. Somehow I get the feeling it leads up to some conclusion that building stuff like in Minecraft, raising stuff on a farm like in Harvest Moon, or that or that cute, serene, peaceful, romantic things are inferior to the giblets flying. And are trying to justify it with philosophy.
Are you trying to argue that aesthetics are important in video games, or are you trying to claim that aesthetics are not very important? Gosh, you're confusing me in general.
I will say this about gameplay. Video games are nothing more than a challenge with nothing more than a fictional reward. Though gamers like to place emphasis on gameplay as a high point in arte, there's nothing greater achieved aside from interaction, than say, a painting.
Machismo is the superior aesthetic for a reason.
Power aka glorifications is in fact the basis of art before democracy and slave morality changed the perception of art. Nietzsche noted this in his analysis of art.
Sorry about the confusion in the aesthetic department. Shallowness basically sets in when syle superceds substance, while a sharp eye for eye for looks is important it is ultimately secondary for videogame imho.
Yeah videogames are decadent in that sense, but effemate challengless games are decadence upon decadence. Maybe the future ubermensch won't even play videogames, who knows?
Icycalm from insomnia.ac (http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/) is my mentor in these issues, be wary that he's a lot more meanspirited and rude than me. I probably got a lot of things wrong so check him out.
And so that's the point of no return for me. If I get ostracized from this community it'll probably be better for my development in the long run. Didn't expect this from a thread about someone wanting to have sex with a darkstalker character.
Halo Fanboy: Saying underprivelaged people are shallower is "disgusting", please save the fucking moralizing.
Stop thinking your douchebag bigoted mentality is worthy of respect. When you go off on offensive crap like this, expect an appropriate response.
Oh, and surprise surprise, morals have worth. And you're being disgusting. You're calling black people and poor people shallow.
Halo Fanboy: Kings in the old days were all about conducting wars and shit, peasants were concerned with doing the jobs their crappy lives required of them, they were clearly shallow in comparison.
No, they weren't. They were just oppressed by an undeserving bourgeois king. Kings have no more merit than peasants.
Peasants were concerned with doing whatever they could to survive. And managing whatever fun they could out of life. While a bunch of undeserving folks could simply have more at their disposal. Furthermore, men and masculinity are not superior.
Halo Fanboy: Machismo is the superior aesthetic for a reason.
That is ridiculous. Sexist, stupid, pathetic elitism of one's own opinion. It's not superior, you're just being a bigot.
And bigotry makes people less sympathetic toward your position. Ah, wait, sympathy, you probably don't like "sympathy", bigotry is not very helpful to those who want what they like to be influential.
Violence is frequently shallow and nonconstructive. And there is a reason murder is illegal and why we have ideals like one person's rights ending where another person's begins. Machismo glorifies the violation of another's rights. There's nothing superior about that.
Halo Fanboy: Power aka glorifications is in fact the basis of art before democracy and slave morality changed the perception of art.
So not only are you a bigot, you're a bigot who doesn't understand history.
Halo Fanboy: Icycalm from insomnia.ac is my mentor in these issues, be wary that he's a lot more meanspirited and rude than me.
You seem to erroneously believe I'm interested in the muckminded fools you look up to.
I'm not sure what the exact parameters of "lolicon" are, but that character pretty clearly appeals to folks that way inclined. And judging by those image results, the appeal has been mighty successful.
Can't say I'm bothered by it. If someone else is sexually attracted to a suspiciously youthful looking fictional character than that's their business. Although lusting after something that doesn't exist seems like a waste of effort to me.
Yeah this 100 percent the expected end result of whenever anyone confronts slave morality. I could have Nietzsche thinking I'm scum, or you thinking I'm scum. On one hand Nietzsche is dead, on the other hand he had a cool mustache.
Halo Fanboy: Yeah this 100 percent the expected end result of whenever anyone confronts slave morality. I could have Nietzsche thinking I'm scum, or you thinking I'm scum. On one hand Nietzsche is dead, on the other hand he had a cool mustache.
Well, when you side with someone like Nietzche, you get what you get.
And to answer your original question, no. Lilith does not qualify. For one, her body give it away that she older, the very fact that she is old disqualifies her, and if memory serves, she doesn't actually want to look the way she does - she wants to look like Morrigan, but can't (or doesn't know how).
All that aside, she technically isn't even a character of her own - she is merely an aspect of Morrigan, temporarily given form to separate some of Morrigan's power from her until Morrigan learned to be more responsible.
You know what would be awesome? If half of the people bitching about this topic even played Darkstalkers at some point. please /thread and do useful things.
Halo Fanboy: Kings in the old days were all about conducting wars and shit, peasants were concerned with doing the jobs their crappy lives required of them, they were clearly shallow in comparison.
Kings conducted war "and shit" out of a combination of vanity and insecurity inherent to a position one was raised to out of no more merit than being directly descended from some random guy who started calling himself King and killing anyone who disagreed with him until there weren't any left. Some of them were great men, but others were fools who had no idea what to do with their power and, fearing they'd lose it, used it only to gain more and keep themselves living comfortably at the expense of everyone else.
Meanwhile, the commoners were concerned with living their lives, supporting their own means while trying to deal with the selfish whimx of a king who saw them as nothing more than a numbers game.
Kurt Horsting: You know what would be awesome? If half of the people bitching about this topic even played Darkstalkers at some point. please /thread and do useful things.
This is true. People should play more fighting games.
Kurt Horsting: You know what would be awesome? If half of the people bitching about this topic even played Darkstalkers at some point. please /thread and do useful things.
This is true. People should play more fighting games.
What about those of us that are barely passable at Mortal Kombat, let alone a game that takes some skill? Fighting games are only fun if you're good at them. I get destroyed on easy...I would much rather snuggle my bunny. Have I mentioned that I have a bunny? Bunnies are awesome. Cake is also awesome. Pie is better though. I haven't taken medication for my ADHD in about 7 years. It shows someti-squirrel!
What about those of us that are barely passable at Mortal Kombat, let alone a game that takes some skill? Fighting games are only fun if you're good at them. I get destroyed on easy [snip]
It not like fighting games are hard. Also, stop playing vs computers and put in some lab time. Your only as scrubby as you want to be.
(P.s. mk9 is a good fighting game that does take skill and probably one of the best fighting games of this console generation.)
Kurt Horsting: You know what would be awesome? If half of the people bitching about this topic even played Darkstalkers at some point. please /thread and do useful things.
This is true. People should play more fighting games.
Too much effort required to be good at them. At the really advanced levels, people start talking in "Fighter-ese", which is a completely new language solely for fighting games.
I was going to discuss how she is -designed- to be a take on lolicon, but the question isn't really about that--it's about those she may appeal to.
Now... my first thought looking at Lilith was that it was some form of boy. That was a clue in to me that it's just not as simple as 'she's made to look a girl.' While she has the childish demeanor and small chest, she doesn't have the aspects of traditional japanese child-depictions.
The goal, it seems, is not for loli, but for androgyny. She's meant to look like she's straddling genderlines, and my first thought was to send pics of her to a friend of mine who is into androgynous people in a sexy way--not to another friend who is about the loli.
So... I cannot therefore logically conclude that her fans are lolicon freaks--I'm pretty sure there's some androgyny lovers who look at her with the deliciousness.
Who cares? It's a drawing. She doesn't exist. She's just a picture... That someone drew. If you interpreted her character as an adult then I don't think the lolicon label applies. It's like those dumbshit "trap" characters in anime, where they draw a girl and then announce that it's a guy.
This thread got weird and insane really quick (it didn't help that halfway through reading the comments if found a spider in my room which isn't something i like finding at 1:20 in the morning)I personally don't care if someone is a lolicon as long as it never reaches real life for the obvious reason. I also don't even think Lilith is loli cause she is not childish looking enough, in my opinion she looks like a 17-19 year old that happens to have a flat-chest.
I had to Google who she is and on first glance: "Nope, not a loli". She doesn't fit the stereotype that lolis have so she can't be one. I'd put her in tsundere category.
I'm not into the game but she looks like a young woman (20 ish?) with a boyish figure to me (although she has very wide hips). I hate to break it to you guys but not all grown women have massive boobies.
Natalie Portman for examplePHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly94MmIueGFuZ2EuY29tL2FlM2Y2NjU0YzFjMzIyNjg5MzAyMTkvejIxNDUxNDE0OC5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L3A+
Can't people dislike something and be done with it? I find "succubus" characters that look like little girls silly. I'm not calling anyone a pedophile, and im not insecure when it comes to sexuality. I find generalizations from both sides silly and ridiculous to be honest.
I find the character concept confusing. She's a demon who's purpose is to seduce and sex men....yet she is a peppy underdog with the mindset of a highschool girl and super cute/silly? I find most japanese butcherings of fantasy characters that aren't their own misguided for the most part. Like they took the concept of a succubus because "hey its sex appeal!" and thew in some fanbait into it. Nothing against you liking it, its just clearly not designed with a deeper meaning.
Halo Fanboy: I usually avoid these kinds of topics but someone brought up the Nietzschean concept of ubermensch so ...
I'm a nietsche follower myself and I've always been awed by how he exposed the psychology behind "slave" morality. Lilith Slave is a good example of slave morality in action (what a coincidence) with her revilement of privelage. Nieztsche saw privelaged people to be "rich in spirit, profound" and such, most notable nietzscean philosophers were privelaged. The unprivelaged because they lack power form are more shallow (shallowness being a lack of strong "will to power" in nietzschean terms.) I can defintely see how this shallowness relates to videogames with Lilith Slave condemnation of power fantisies and how invested she is in the more meaningless aspects of videogames (like "moe.")
Not hatin or anything, just stating why I disagree with a condemnation of privelage in nietzschean terms. Normally these sorts of discussions don't interest me, I'm more interested in dispelling the shallowness in mechanical evaluations of videogames.
I've given this post quite a lot of thought before posting so sorry for the lateness. I'm no philosophy scholar but I do have some knowledge that you may appreciate. A lot of Nietzche's work was done over by the Nazis. That's the long and short of it.
Nietzche's sister was a Nazi and when he found out, he was pretty furious and refused to ever see her again. Some heavy shit went down over the years until finally once Nietzche kicked the bucket his sister played out the ultimate revenge. She stole all his unpublished work and vandalized it to the point of being unrecognizable and turned it into the most obnoxious Nazi propaganda she could have hoped for. Nietzche was quite the anti-supremacist, ultratolerant dude. He felt no empathy with the idealized Aryan vision.
Needless to say, once Joseph Goebbels (Hitler's BFFsie) found out about it he came in his pants. The Nazis then proceeded to take a huge racist shit over all of Nietzche's work. There is quite a lot of debate over what was Nietzche's and what wasn't but as a general rule of thumb if it sounds kinda bigotted, it was probably Goebbels who wrote that part.
Don't get me wrong, there are actually a lot of Nietzche's books that didn't pique the Nazis' interest and those are pretty much untouched, but take care that whatever doctrine you follow isn't actually just Nazi propaganda in a shallow diguise.
Lolicon, no idea, but in the UK and most of Scandinavia, having any drawings of her in sexual situations is likely get you conviction added to the 'sex offenders' register.
Why because you would have a had job convincing a jury that she did not give the 'impression' of being over 18, which is how the law is writer, certainly in the UK.
I'm not into the game but she looks like a young woman (20 ish?) with a boyish figure to me (although she has very wide hips). I hate to break it to you guys but not all grown women have massive boobies.
Natalie Portman for examplePHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly94MmIueGFuZ2EuY29tL2FlM2Y2NjU0YzFjMzIyNjg5MzAyMTkvejIxNDUxNDE0OC5qcGciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L3A+
I wouldn't worry about it OP
Oh boy, look at those massive melons! *sigh*
This was about my thought when I googled an image of that character. About all my girlfriends had a similiar body (except those big hips). Small, thin with small breasts.
After 6 pages of responses I doubt there's anything I could say that would actually ADD to the conversation. But I'd just like to point out the only reason people consider Lilith as being a loli is because she's flat chested. In truth she's just as old as Morrigan because she was born OF Morrigan. I forget exactly how the story goes, but Morrigan's father (or someone) knew that Morrigan would grow insanely powerful and so they sectioned off a chunk of her power and sealed it away. Lilith is a physical manifestation of that chunk of Morrigan's power that was removed. This is why it's part of Morrigan's plotline that she wants to re-absorb Lilith so she can reach her full power, so too is it part of Lilith's story that - being her own separate entity - she wants to absorb Morrigan and essentially take her place.
Being a fan of a character =/= Being sexually attracted to he/she/it in some cases the opposite might apply but it ranges from person to person But in general?No.
I mean hell,i'm a fan of Leanne in RoF,but that don't mean i want to jump into bed with her.
I just searched her. She doesn't look anything like a child to me, so I don't know what they're on about.
Whether or not she's really so-and-so age (anime's weird with this anyway) doesn't matter if she's a fictional character that, in reality, looks like an adult. Perhaps a youthful-looking one with a flat chest, but still an adult nonetheless.
Also, liking one fictional character who happens to be prepubescent doesn't make you a paedophile. A paedophile is defined as being an adult or late adolescent who has a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Not all child molesters are paedophiles, because many of them have happily married lives, maybe with kids themselves, and fiddle little children on the side because they're vulnerable and/or because they like the power it gives them and humiliation it gives their victim.
What would being attracted to Sakura from Street Fighter make someone? Not a paedophile, perhaps not even a ephebophile. She's a high school girl, probably around the typical age of 16, and has the attractive features of an adult woman. I've genuinely seen comments on YouTube of people berating others for saying that they'd have hypothetical sex with her, but how many of us when we were teenagers had sexual relationships with other teenagers? Perhaps, as an adult, we wouldn't do it now, but we could still find them attractive.
DracoSuave: Now... my first thought looking at Lilith was that it was some form of boy.
The blatantly female clothing didn't give it away?
Lolicon, no idea, but in the UK and most of Scandinavia, having any drawings of her in sexual situations is likely get you conviction added to the 'sex offenders' register.
Why because you would have a had job convincing a jury that she did not give the 'impression' of being over 18, which is how the law is writer, certainly in the UK.
Wait, what? I thought it was only owning child porn that could get you convicted, not lolicon? If it's not real, it doesn't harm anyone, does it?
LilithSlave: Because I've heard a lot of people call them that.
A quick google search to find out who Lilith Aensland is makes me say yes. I mean really have you ever seen the stuff that comes up when you search her name?
LilithSlave: Because I've heard a lot of people call them that.
A quick google search to find out who Lilith Aensland is makes me say yes. I mean really have you ever seen the stuff that comes up when you search her name?
A lot of that's probably fanart. I'm looking at official artwork of her now, and she's definitely not lolicon. Look at those long legs and hips.
A lot of that's probably fanart. I'm looking at official artwork of her now, and she's definitely not lolicon. Look at those long legs and hips.
Exactly my point. Its the fans of Lilith Aensland that are drawing lolicon art of her. That you know kind of strongly hints that them being into that kind of stuff.
A lot of that's probably fanart. I'm looking at official artwork of her now, and she's definitely not lolicon. Look at those long legs and hips.
Exactly my point. Its the fans of Lilith Aensland that are drawing lolicon art of her. That you know kind of strongly hints that them being into that kind of stuff.
You can chibify anyone and make lolicon art of them, though. That doesn't automatically mean that the character herself is lolicon. Maybe they just find the small breasts attractive and think, "Hey, we can go one step further and make her a child."
Lolicon, no idea, but in the UK and most of Scandinavia, having any drawings of her in sexual situations is likely get you conviction added to the 'sex offenders' register.
Why because you would have a had job convincing a jury that she did not give the 'impression' of being over 18, which is how the law is writer, certainly in the UK.
Wait, what? I thought it was only owning child porn that could get you convicted, not lolicon? If it's not real, it doesn't harm anyone, does it?
Changed in the 'Coroners and Justice Act 2009'. Not going to get into a debate about the reasons the government did this, but if you are interested you can check out the responses to the law by the NSPCC and Macmillan, since they were the main lobbyists for it, as to their reason this law is a good idea. Also you can read through the bill to work out what type of deceptions will get you in trouble. The basic message though is that the victim 'not being real' does not stop it from being 'abuse' and is punished as such.
DracoSuave: Now... my first thought looking at Lilith was that it was some form of boy.
The blatantly female clothing didn't give it away?
No, not really. Lilith is portraying obviously boyish characteristics, there's a definite intentional aim of genderbending going on. The obviously female clothing actually works to call attention to her non-feminine attributes rather than her feminine attributes; thusly it makes her seem more genderbent rather than less.
Uh, don't stealth edit please.
It's less shallow to simulate destruction because it is closer to the ideal of exerting power over your surroundings (will to power.) That's not to say farming games are devoid of will to power though, you certainly exert your control in them.
Is To the Moon another fucking "artgame?" OF COURSE Duke is more meaningfull and complex than any of those pos (if To the Moon is not an art game I apoligize but it has a really pretentious sounding name.)
Survival Horror are power fantasy. Just like Demon's Souls, Shmups or fighting a godlike diamond level SCer. They empower the player by letting them face adversity in an attempt to conquer it.
Uh there are mechanically complex MMO (EVE) and mechanically complex wrpg (Fallout). Wrpg are not about exploration and discovery, they are about making decisions of consequnce on the world (will to power.) EVE and Fallout allow the player to have huge effects on the world, while Runescape allows people to to level up and pvp eachother to no real consequence.
Saying underprivelaged people are shallower is "disgusting", please save the fucking moralizing. Kings in the old days were all about conducting wars and shit, peasants were concerned with doing the jobs their crappy lives required of them, they were clearly shallow in comparison. It isn't about race either, in western society black people have less power but in other societies they have taken master morality to it's height by becoming dictators (will to power.) In Nietzsche terms slave morality is shallow, master morality is profound plain and simple.
Machismo is the superior aesthetic for a reason.
Power aka glorifications is in fact the basis of art before democracy and slave morality changed the perception of art. Nietzsche noted this in his analysis of art.
Sorry about the confusion in the aesthetic department. Shallowness basically sets in when syle superceds substance, while a sharp eye for eye for looks is important it is ultimately secondary for videogame imho.
Yeah videogames are decadent in that sense, but effemate challengless games are decadence upon decadence. Maybe the future ubermensch won't even play videogames, who knows?
Icycalm from insomnia.ac (http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_genealogy_of_art_games/) is my mentor in these issues, be wary that he's a lot more meanspirited and rude than me. I probably got a lot of things wrong so check him out.
And so that's the point of no return for me. If I get ostracized from this community it'll probably be better for my development in the long run. Didn't expect this from a thread about someone wanting to have sex with a darkstalker character.