Kill Stealing

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bloob:
but when its 2+ on 1 with no one else around and I down someone and someone else steals my kill really annoys me.

This always annoyed me in Gears as well especially since you only get something like 10 points for killing someone you didn't down yourself so there's really no point in stealing someone else's kill.People are just doing it to increase their k/d ratio

Well, I haven't played Tribes Ascend yet but I guess I can speak for other FPS's. In CoD, people die too quickly and host advantages too dodgy for anything to be called kill stealing.

As for Halo, however, they'll give you a medal for kill stealing. It's called a Yoink! That only really applies to game modes that contain two teams. In FFAs and Multiteam games however, kill steal away, I say. At least not from your teamates.

If it's a team game, why should anyone care? I can understand being annoyed in a free-for-all match if another player snuck in a final hit to take your points, but if it's all Reds vs Blues, one less Red is good no matter how it happens.

It has nothing to do with better community and has everything to do with design. Kill Stealing in Tribes doesn't matter because you don't gain power for doing so, while in CoD you get more powerful for more kills. If you get killed in a Moba game the enemy gets more powerful, argo someone with 90 deaths is definitely the sole reason your team lost and you gain power for killing.

Once again, Tribes doesn't have a better community because people don't think its Kill Stealing, its just that Kill Stealing has no effect on anything. If anything, I find Tribes community more infuriating then any other community or game I've played in a while.

For me, there are several reasons why I don't mind KSing in that game. For one thing, even if you get an assist, you still get a fair sum of xp and a little badge on your belt for the assist. That cushions the blow and when a skirmish can change with one lucky shot, help is welcome. Another thing is that the game isn't focused on kills unless your referring to TDM which, in my opinion, is not as popular or competitive as CTF. There are other objectives such as flags, generators, turrets, etc that people are paying more attention to whereas kills are more of the icing on the cake. I do HATE it when I'm playing a pathfinder, flying at the flag at 280 kph and a derpy raider or heavy walks up and picks the flag despite my numerous claims to the flag. That is infuriating.

Well, it entirely depends on the context of the kill. In CoD, a great deal of emphasis is placed by a lot of the players on scoring kills, and from what I know about the game having not actually played it, people tend to focus on K/D ratios above all. Their objective is to maximise their K/D, so anyone who gets in the way of that really pisses them off.

For Tribes, there's much more focus on points rather than just kills, which you'll get for loads of things. I've managed to top scoreboards by placing my focus exclusively on capping and going fast, which I'm informed one has got to do, so I really don't care if people take my kills off me, and with the amount of points that can be awarded for destroying secondary objectives, that's probably why nobody else seems to care. Their objective is points, not kills.

As for LoL, I almost exclusively play support (6 deaths to 34 assists ftw), so I know about the damage that killstealing can do. A kill grants a large (ish) amount of gold and experience to the killer, and around half the reward to all assistants, depending on how much they did to help. When some members of the team rely heavily on gold and/or experience to succeed, whilst others (like me) don't really benefit as much, it's quite understandable that people would be annoyed when you score a kill in their place.

It really depends on the game you're playing. For example, I have found absolutely nobody yell at me for kill stealing while playing Last Stand in Dawn of War Retribution. Because there, it's pretty much encouraged. Higher level players on the team take the brunt of the punishment by leaping in and smashing the mobs, allowing the lower level players to mop up and gather more experience than they would with a low level team.

All people who complain about KSing are pretty much retarded. I say this because they are playing a game, where killing the enemy team is how you win, and they are mad that you killed the enemy team. You should say Damn straight and leave it at that. The kill has been taken.

Ya I actually noticed that in Tribes too, but I think it has to do with how everything is scored. In CoD and in LoL, kills can make a big difference. In CoD getting a kill means you're one step closer to that game breaking killstreak, while in LoL, a kill means both a level and gold advantage which often leads to an easier game for you. In LoL I don't think killstealing is as prevelant at higher levels, cause you will get the assist points, plus the main benefit is that person is out of the game for the time until they respawn, but I'll admit to getting angry if I finish a person off and am about to kill them and someone wastes their ult to take the kill from across the map when there was no chance they would get away.

In tribes its a lot different. A kill is not even worth that much, and there is a stigma against what I think is called "deuling in the midfield", since those people are generally seen to be no or little help to a team. If I'm having a good game (INF player), I'll usually place in the top 5 of my team, but I almost never have the most kills. I get a lot of points from assists and gen destruction.

Zhukov:
It's not kill-stealing, it's kill-helping.

Pretty much this, assist accolades encourage players to help each other out and do better for the sake of the team as a whole. I'm just really happy that they've added accolades for upgrading base structures now, makes being a tech that much sweeter to play.

Just because you got there first doesn't mean you "own" the kill. Whenever someone "steals" my kill, I just think to myself "fair play, they beat me to it" and move on.

Sorry, but I'm not the biggest fan of railing a guy until he's 95% dead, only for some jackass to come derping in and put one bullet into the guy, and getting the kill, which then results in me getting lowered "assist" points.

I don't care if the score you get is based on the amount damage done e.g. BF3/ME3, though.

NightHawk21:
In LoL I don't think killstealing is as prevelant at higher levels, cause you will get the assist points, plus the main benefit is that person is out of the game for the time until they respawn, but I'll admit to getting angry if I finish a person off and am about to kill them and someone wastes their ult to take the kill from across the map when there was no chance they would get away.

I never understood why people get mad at kill stealing in LoL, it happens to me quite often but I don't freak out about it. I still get a boost in exp/gold for the assist, I get the 'takedown' stat for an assist and it removes the player from the game for several seconds allowing me to get even further of an exp/gold advantage, maybe players are looking to flex their e-peens at the end of the round (OMG I killed 20 people that game! look at how good I am everybody!) but when my goal is to kill a player I want to make sure they go down, I'm not going to ease off at the end just to save your feelings.

To be fair This is almost always coming from bad players though, I played a game yesterday where the malphite was halfway across the map and was killed by an enemy, our gangplank used his ult to take out the enemy. The Malph whined about 'kill-stealing' but shut up pretty quick when it was pointed out he didn't get an assist for the kill (because he was dead)

And most players are way too focused on kills in that game anyway, If you kill someone but give up a death you have done absolutely nothing and could have very well hurt your team more than helped. Everytime someone tower dives to kill a low-hp enemy insted of taking out the tower I cringe a bit. (I've met players who are proud of their 14/17/0 score)

Seriously people take down towers, games aren't won on kills alone.

OT: most of the time I don't mind it because if there is a reward for killing them (exp, gold) it's almost always shared with those that help. If it's a killsteal in an FPS then maybe you should be better at the game and not allow anyone to steal your kills.

endtherapture:

DasDestroyer:

It's not Zeus, it's the people playing him. Some people use his ult the second they see their teammates almost kill an enemy, some people wait until an enemy gets away with low hp before ulting.

Wait til they get away before hitting with his ult, or just do it right at the beginning of a team fight - that's how I play Zeus - preferably at the start in case Zeus can't stay alive long enough to use his ultimate.

AI Zeus is honest to god the most fucking annoying character in a game ever though.

AI Zeus isn't as bad as a well-fed Zeus. Lvl 3 ult + agh's + refresher = insta-death to everyone under 1200 hp. Good thing tinker can't rearm refresher orb, because then that number would go up to 1800 :D

Edit: While we're on the topic of dota killsteals, here's one of my first and best killsteals:

artichunter:
KS? Kill secured! ;-)

no such thing as kill stealing in my eyes :D

That's what me and my friends say as well when we play LoL. Or when we play with random people in pvp and they go like: "Sorry, KS." We say: "No problem, he's dead anyways. Kill Secured =)."

After reading the first 6 or 7 posts here I realized I have other things to do, so I'm just going to throw this idea out real quick and you can all run go tear it to shreds as you please.

Why not simply give the point to whoever did the MOST damage to the target, rather than the MOST RECENT damage to the target. Does this not practically eliminate the possibility to "kill steal" in the first place?

I mean I guess if you've sunk 7 or 8 minutes of a 20 minute round doggedly hunting a guy with a pistol and done 49% damage and then some 13 year old snipes his ass for 51% damage you're going to feel a bit cheated, but it does still seem like a better situation that what games use now.

DasDestroyer:

endtherapture:

DasDestroyer:

It's not Zeus, it's the people playing him. Some people use his ult the second they see their teammates almost kill an enemy, some people wait until an enemy gets away with low hp before ulting.

Wait til they get away before hitting with his ult, or just do it right at the beginning of a team fight - that's how I play Zeus - preferably at the start in case Zeus can't stay alive long enough to use his ultimate.

AI Zeus is honest to god the most fucking annoying character in a game ever though.

AI Zeus isn't as bad as a well-fed Zeus. Lvl 3 ult + agh's + refresher = insta-death to everyone under 1200 hp. Good thing tinker can't rearm refresher orb, because then that number would go up to 1800 :D

Edit: While we're on the topic of dota killsteals, here's one of my first and best killsteals:

Now that's what I call a killsteal!

Killsteals in Dota are so annoying especially when you're trying to build an expensive item.

Well I haven't played Tribes but in CoD and LoL the mechanics are different and getting a kill nets you more bonuses. Kill streaks and more Gold. So it breeds a different mentality. Personally, I don't care but I can understand people who do get annoyed.

Any player in a team game needs to understand that there is not thing as kill stealing. The whole concept of kill stealing means that you are trying to be a lone-wolf type super player or something which is not something you should aim at in a team game. Kill Stealing is really just Kill Securing with someone whining because they did most the work, it's not like they won't get something out of it.

therandombear:

artichunter:
KS? Kill secured! ;-)

no such thing as kill stealing in my eyes :D

That's what me and my friends say as well when we play LoL. Or when we play with random people in pvp and they go like: "Sorry, KS." We say: "No problem, he's dead anyways. Kill Secured =)."

I like this mentality. In Tribes, I really have no idea if Ill get a kill or die trying, so its a nice to have someone help me out.

The Unworthy Gentleman:

Mr Pantomime:
Does this example show that the Tribes Ascend community are just better people than COD and LOL communities, or is it the game's mechanics and scoring system which cause people to act nicer.

I've never had a guy give me a bollocking for 'kill stealing,' nobody on Call of Duty has ever done that to me. I think you're actually just giving everyone in Call of Duty and League of Legends a hard time for the actions of random individuals, though I can't speak too much for the LoL community.

The Call of Duty community is just more isolated and individual focused, there's rarely any actual assholes, it's just blown out of proportion how bad it is.

I agree that Call of Duty does get a bad rap, but a majority of players in LOL will get really offensive if you're new and don't know how to play. Its a big problem in the community.

If Cod players aren't playing as a team, I can see why they'd be annoyed when they're denied a kill. Its not in a context of making the team win, but more about winning yourself.

Competitive scoring in co-op where a single attack can net you all the reward of another player's work is, quite simply, bad design. It's also the norm. Good to see Tribes being an individual still.

Any time a game gets a ridiculously huge following, the community and fanbase is going to turn to muck. It's not a jab at the fans, it's just pure numbers.

As for "kill-stealing", I've personally never had an issue with it. Like I said, larger the fanbase, the more often people will bitch about other people who have wronged them in pew pew town.

A kill-steal can be argued for when each kill counts for individuals, not for teams. Of course the whole kill-steal ordeal is made pointless when you put in assists. Now something that really grinds my gears is how the capture-the-flag mode works in some games. Assists are really needed in that. I hate how the point goes to the guy who caps it, not the person who moved the most with it.

If I'm being shot and there's a down on the floor infront of me, you can be damn sure I'm picking him up for a meat shield.
The win is more important than k:d by a long shot.

Generally I welcome the help. You are attacking someone whose trying to kill you so an extra hand is usually welcome. However, if I'm dominating someone so hard that I am staring over their broken body ready for the fulfilling killing blow and someone takes it.

Yeah that pisses me off.

MrHero17:
Well in LoL and other Mobas whoever gets the kill gets more gold so obvious your Ad is going to be annoyed if the support has 5 kills while he has 5 assist. Better that someone get the kill than no one though.

That's partially true... there are circumstances where it's better to give the kill to the support, as usually the support is behind everyone else, which means they'll gain more of a benefit if they got the kill.

Also, supports can use kills just as well as the damage dealers. Support items are awesomely useful.

OT: I honestly don't care about kill steals, I don't play Call of Duty however if a team mate KS's me in League of Legends or DotA 2 the most i'll do is jokingly say "OMFG KS NOOB QQ QQ QQ". I still get assist gold and the opponent still loses gold (in DotA 2).

However when a team mate waits for you to die, THEN takes the kill... that's a different story (especially when they lose you the game because of it)

Apple and Oranges my friend. In tribes it doesn't matter who gets the kill. In LoL it can cost you the game.

It's generally a dick move but not always though. There are plenty of times where ego and entitlement comes into play (on both sides mind you)

Bah, people who complain about Kill stealing in a team based game shouldn't play team based games. So I think Tribes has a generally nicer community, seeing people don't care as much about kdr etc.

Angry Juju:

MrHero17:
Well in LoL and other Mobas whoever gets the kill gets more gold so obvious your Ad is going to be annoyed if the support has 5 kills while he has 5 assist. Better that someone get the kill than no one though.

That's partially true... there are circumstances where it's better to give the kill to the support, as usually the support is behind everyone else, which means they'll gain more of a benefit if they got the kill.

Also, supports can use kills just as well as the damage dealers. Support items are awesomely useful.

OT: I honestly don't care about kill steals, I don't play Call of Duty however if a team mate KS's me in League of Legends or DotA 2 the most i'll do is jokingly say "OMFG KS NOOB QQ QQ QQ". I still get assist gold and the opponent still loses gold (in DotA 2).

However when a team mate waits for you to die, THEN takes the kill... that's a different story (especially when they lose you the game because of it)

A support only needs assists and "gold per minute" items to keep up.

RustlessPotato:
Bah, people who complain about Kill stealing in a team based game shouldn't play team based games. So I think Tribes has a generally nicer community, seeing people don't care as much about kdr etc.

It's hard to keep up with kdr ratio when they don't post the deaths on the scoreboard

I've been playing Mass Effect 3's multiplayer quite a bit recently, and it's kind of hard to hold a grudge for kill stealing on it unless someone's just trying to piss you off, considering you get pretty much the same rewards throughout the team as long as you win. The gameplay really breeds camaraderie and forgiveness, but it does really suffer from a lack of ways to communicate, so my teammates don't often understand that when I fire my blades into something, it explodes a couple seconds later, so I often get my targets sniped right before their giblets fly everywhere.

The only time KS bother me is in LoL where one character will clearly benefit more from the the kill compared to the person who took the kill. I accept sometimes damage can be spikey/unpredictable or an enemy may be close to escaping and some-one takes the kill out of desperation as a perfectly understandable reasons for a KS. My problem basically occurs when the target will clearly die to a more valuable champion but instead some-one takes it despite the fact they already have the assist tagged on it. End of the day some champions can work fine off base values and more simple items while carries need to accumilate gold, so purposely KS from them (especially if it persists) may only serve to shoot the team in the foot.

Btw this isn't a personal grudge, quite the oposite I mostly play supports so I'm making an active effort to not KS and get my lane partner as fed as possible. Of course it doesn't always work out that I get no kills, but I don't go out of my way to land the last hit.

Berenzen:

RustlessPotato:
Bah, people who complain about Kill stealing in a team based game shouldn't play team based games. So I think Tribes has a generally nicer community, seeing people don't care as much about kdr etc.

It's hard to keep up with kdr ratio when they don't post the deaths on the scoreboard

That is true. I haven't played it yet, but a friend of mine has and he said it was more team based. I don't really know if it's true, but generally i think people shouldn't complain about things like "kill steal" in a team based game :p

You can't steal a kill, it just doesn't make sense to me. You're killing for your team, and if the game doesn't encourage that mindset, then it's the fault of the game.

^ What he said. There's no such thing as kill stealing.

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