Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened

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Kahunaburger:
Ahahahaha really? And some people still take EC seriously and like cite them as evidence and stuff. What.

Swear to god. I was squirming in palpable discomfort the entire way through. He affected this somber, breathy tone for the entire pointless, rambling anecdote too, like he was telling us where he stacked the bodies.

I don't even MIND Extra Credits but I've had a really hard time taking them seriously since that.

But anyway, I'm derailing my own thread. Even though I apparently re-posted the topic like a total dildo.

Brad Calkins:
No, I'm not, but I would like to know, what about "A Voice For Men" makes it a bad source?

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

(wipes tears from eyes)

Seriously though, I'm terribly sorry.

BloatedGuppy:

Kahunaburger:
Ahahahaha really? And some people still take EC seriously and like cite them as evidence and stuff. What.

Swear to god. I was squirming in palpable discomfort the entire way through. He affected this somber, breathy tone for the entire pointless, rambling anecdote too, like he was telling us where he stacked the bodies.

I don't even MIND Extra Credits but I've had a really hard time taking them seriously since that.

But anyway, I'm derailing my own thread. Even though I apparently re-posted the topic like a total dildo.

They should have just found a different writer for that episode, frankly. Part 1 was great, Part 2 was ruined. The very fact that the subject WAS too close to home meant that he shouldn't have continued.
Alas!

Sorry, let's continue >_<

So is she being harmed in some way other than being insulted/threatened? The news article here said that people were flagging her videos as terrorism and trying to get her Kickstarter project thrown out, which seems like, you know, things that Kickstarter and Youtube will laugh at and deny.

Brad Calkins:
Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do. The "misogyny" in these games begins and ends there, and besides, often the men wear outfits just as impractical. I swear to god some of these guys actually wear RUBBER PANTS!

Pretty much this.

What does she need that much fucking money for? For a free video she did BEFORE?

If you have the ability to make videos like that before, you don't need any money now. In fact, some of her points are blatantly retarded in her previous videos. It does nothing of value. If I didn't know any better, she is trying to pull another kickstarter scam.

Asking for money to do a blog is the worst idea since America sprayed school kids with DDT in the 30s. Even without the misogyny, she would have been laughed at for even suggesting it.

Ragsnstitches:
Here's a question for you smash. If someone you knew was exposed to severe gender based abuse in school or at work, but you only heard about it well after the fact, would you just let it slide because there isn't anything you can do about it?

It depends. Did the harassment take place online or in the real? Am I close to the person, as in can I cheer him or her up? What does "Let it slide" even mean?

"Hurr ur just letting this slide Smash" - fine, here, I'm not letting it slide. I'm trying my hardest. Oh look, nothing changed.

Ragsnstitches:
Would you be comfortable if the people who abused this person were able to get off scot-free regardless of how bad it gets or how often it happens?

Heh, that got a chuckle out of me. I'm uncomfortable with a lot of things, ranging from poverty to modern human mentality to discrimination. To answer your question, no, I am not, and I'm not comfortable with this whole situation either, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

Ragsnstitches:

This is all directed at 1 person... just 1 person who wants to voice her concerns. If we all shared your logic, she would have to deal with this on her own. Thats more then anyone can bear without support from others around them.

You may want to examine my logic again - I don't think you read my posts properly.

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

It's a damn wide sight more critical and intelligent than half the shit people like you have put together in this thread, I can tell you that.

But hey, you can keep telling me that I should be analyzing the situation properly and thinking about solutions, while you do fuck all in that direction yourself, instead opting to patronize people who aren't jumping on the rage bandwagon.

I'd be more than willing to take on someone like you in a debate about the subject, but till now, you're all to busy screaming "YOU SHOULD CARE BECAUSE FUCKING SEXISM AND GAMERS BEING SEXIST AND OH GAWD WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" to actually make any proper points of your own.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ragsnstitches:
Here's a question for you smash. If someone you knew was exposed to severe gender based abuse in school or at work, but you only heard about it well after the fact, would you just let it slide because there isn't anything you can do about it?

It depends. Did the harassment take place online or in the real? Am I close to the person, as in can I cheer him or her up? What does "Let it slide" even mean?

"Hurr ur just letting this slide Smash" - fine, here, I'm not letting it slide. I'm trying my hardest. Oh look, nothing changed.

Ragsnstitches:
Would you be comfortable if the people who abused this person were able to get off scot-free regardless of how bad it gets or how often it happens?

Heh, that got a chuckle out of me. I'm uncomfortable with a lot of things, ranging from poverty to modern human mentality to discrimination. To answer your question, no, I am not, and I'm not comfortable with this whole situation either, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

Ragsnstitches:

This is all directed at 1 person... just 1 person who wants to voice her concerns. If we all shared your logic, she would have to deal with this on her own. Thats more then anyone can bear without support from others around them.

You may want to examine my logic again - I don't think you read my posts properly.

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

It's a damn wide sight more critical and intelligent than half the shit people like you have put together in this thread, I can tell you that.

But hey, you can keep telling me that I should be analyzing the situation properly and thinking about solutions, while you do fuck all in that direction yourself, instead opting to patronize people who aren't jumping on the rage bandwagon.

I'd be more than willing to take on someone like you in a debate about the subject, but till now, you're all to busy screaming "YOU SHOULD CARE BECAUSE FUCKING SEXISM AND GAMERS BEING SEXIST AND OH GAWD WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" to actually make any proper points of your own.

I hate when people break up posts like that... pet peeve.

I specifically stated AT work or IN school. I also said after the fact, where the damage is already done. As for how close you are, that was left for you to infer... you seem to deliberately avoid the most plausible scenario in which a person would be given a hypothetical scenario with emotionally gauging undertones (i.e it should be personal).

Let it slide is an Idiom that means "to let past actions be forgiven".

Heh, that got a chuckle out of me. I'm uncomfortable with a lot of things, ranging from poverty to modern human mentality to discrimination. To answer your question, no, I am not, and I'm not comfortable with this whole situation either, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

I'm just drawing attention to this. I'll get back to it in a moment.

Upon re-examining earlier posts I have composited a series of quotes that I felt best established my view of your logic.

And just in case it was forgotten, I said:

Ragsnstitches:
If we all shared your logic, she would have to deal with this on her own.

A running theme in your posts seems to be "It's not my Problem". Either that or "what can you do?"

And to be honest, I kind of agree. It isn't my problem, though I attempt to take on the proble but I'm completely stumped about what I can do. But it frustrates me to see it happen, especially when its as concentrated as this particular subject, so I vocalise my disdain for it. Just like what you do, you who vocalises his disdain about people who vocalise their disdain but don't act on it.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

It's a damn wide sight more critical and intelligent than half the shit people like you have put together in this thread, I can tell you that.

But hey, you can keep telling me that I should be analyzing the situation properly and thinking about solutions, while you do fuck all in that direction yourself, instead opting to patronize people who aren't jumping on the rage bandwagon.

I'd be more than willing to take on someone like you in a debate about the subject, but till now, you're all to busy screaming "YOU SHOULD CARE BECAUSE FUCKING SEXISM AND GAMERS BEING SEXIST AND OH GAWD WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" to actually make any proper points of your own.

Here is were I take a umbrage to your posting on this subject.

You fired first... the theme of the topic was "Look at these assholes, don't they make you angry GRRRR" proceeded by "Yes, RABBLE RAGE!"

Then you saunter along and go "it's just internet rage guys, why you lot taking it so seriously" and then derail the theme by railing on the womans objectives in the video, rather then the assholes who assaults her. Oh yes, you don't condone what they do, but you will gladly fight anyone who gets angry by it.

Then as the topic progressed you still made comments (completely off topic comments), only to met by a frenzy of people who took your loosely grounded and frivolous presence as being, perhaps wrongly, unsympathetic. Remember that quote I drew attention to above and said I would get back to it? Yeah, here is the problem with what you said:

Heh, that got a chuckle out of me. I'm uncomfortable with a lot of things, ranging from poverty to modern human mentality to discrimination. To answer your question, no, I am not, and I'm not comfortable with this whole situation either, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

Despite the fact the general feelings of this topic are "Jesus this is offensive, *insert rant*" you somehow feel that the very core to this topic is Irrelevant when directed at you.

But then, in response to me, where you seem to take a huge degree of offence from my own barbed language (despite stating people should give less fucks about internet assaults), you state that you would be more willing to debate the topic if everyone stopped being knee-jerk reactionaries (you said it less tactfully though).

Again, you fired first, you went off topic on many occasions, your opinion seems to run along the lines of "If I can't do anything about it anyway, I won't talk about it either" and then claim that the opposition to your viewpoint is not worth discussing with because they don't accept your complacent attitude. Oh wait sorry, it's because we're too busy screaming "YOU SHOULD CARE BECAUSE FUCKING SEXISM AND GAMERS BEING SEXIST AND OH GAWD WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN" to make proper points of our own.

On a final note, I find it funny that despite your "get over it" bravado, you didn't take having your logic and competency on the subject called into question and added quite a bit of venom in your last post as a result.

I also can't help but notice you don't like being ganged up on... feeling a bit victimised are we? I wonder how that feels.

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

He's analysing the how's and whys of "Why should I give a shit and how much emotional attention should I give to this topic" and the answer is, despite the ranting and raving that the internet spawns as usual, is none.

You can't do anything about this, people are dickheads and anonymity grants this a whole new level. THIS IS NOT NEW NOR UNFORESEEABLE. This is not a shallow mindset, this is a reasonable and realistic mindset.

It goes beyond "I should feel bad about this because I'm expected to", which, honestly, describes like 60% of this website. Let's get up in arms because we feel we should! Yeah! Can we do anything? No! But let's feel better about ourselves anyway!

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Well, go ahead. Talk and think of something. We are all waiting.

So I'm supposed to carry an entire discussion by talking to an empty room?

Warning - Godwins law coming in.

Then I'm not reading past this point.

Maybe you should spend more time answering that perfectly reasonable question and less time screaming at rational people.

Yes, I just said I'm rational compared to you right now. Me. Now imagine what you must look like.

You say you're rational, but everyone thinks they're rational. Doesn't mean shit.

As to answering the question would require me to have discussions about the idea with various people. And if you're not interested in being one of them, then fuck off. Also, how about standing up to people who are demonstrably wrong like this piece of work:

Brad Calkins:
Frankly, if history is any indication, the whole projects stupid. They're just going to spend all that money complaining about what these characters are wearing, rather than look at literally anything else, they always do.

Brad Calkins:
No, I'm not, but I would like to know, what about "A Voice For Men" makes it a bad source?

I know at some point, some moron will say something about the freedom of speech. But the freedom from speech is not freedom from consequence. If you let assholes be assholes, they'll just get worse.

Oh that's right. You won't because this is the internet and nothing about it matters. So much so, that you just can't wait to tell us all about it and how we're foolish we all are for not agreeing with you.

Freezy_Breezy:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snippy snip snip

Although I'm veering off topic like a llama in a punctured hot air balloon, I just wanted to say, I've noticed your posts in a number of threads (obviously) and you really are very good at defying the bland, reactionary bullshit this site loves to produce. Thank you for promoting actual critical thinking and not running around bleating like you're a llama in a hot air balloon.

Alright, I'm done

I just want to second this opinion. You are one of the commenters that keeps me coming back to this forum, both for the reason cited by Freezy, and the fact that the mildly sardonic manner you do it in is #winning.

Freezy_Breezy:

It goes beyond "I should feel bad about this because I'm expected to", which, honestly, describes like 60% of this website. Let's get up in arms because we feel we should! Yeah! Can we do anything? No! But let's feel better about ourselves anyway!

Well, that's a bit rude. If I can persuade at least one person somehow, then mission accomplished.
That's mostly everyone's logic.

Besides. People CAN do something about it. People can donate to the kickstarter fund. That's something.

Freezy_Breezy:

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

He's analysing the how's and whys of "Why should I give a shit and how much emotional attention should I give to this topic" and the answer is, despite the ranting and raving that the internet spawns as usual, is none.

You can't do anything about this, people are dickheads and anonymity grants this a whole new level. THIS IS NOT NEW NOR UNFORESEEABLE. This is not a shallow mindset, this is a reasonable and realistic mindset.

It goes beyond "I should feel bad about this because I'm expected to", which, honestly, describes like 60% of this website. Let's get up in arms because we feel we should! Yeah! Can we do anything? No! But let's feel better about ourselves anyway!

I just wanted to second this. Nobosy on this site seems to ever think in any way besides "that is so horrible and that is bad". Rarely have I seen people talk about solutions, or causes or anything else besides that what happened was bad and then move on. At least Smash said something.

What do I think sends huge hate mobs off like this? Well I have a story. I'm sure many of you can relate to it in some way, whether that be directly or from hearing other similar stories. So when I was littler, about Fourth Grade all the kids ran around calling each other faggots and cunts. Obviously homophobic and partially sexist but plenty of us didn't even know or could conceive of the concept of sexuality or gender discrimination. We had simply picked up the language when we were little and used it for the sole reason we knew they were bad words. Then of course we grew up and realised that we couldn't run around calling people faggotcunts anymore but most people I know fought it. Despite the obvious hate behind the words most arguments are merely "but that wasn't the context we were using them in" etc. And to be fair it wasn't, I doubt any of us had purposely homophobic or sexist intentions, though that didn't make it any more acceptable. The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't the fact that you're trying to make people less bigoted that sets them off, rather that you're trying to change them at all. people appreciate a status quote, and it's uncomfortable to get rid of it when it's been around for so long.

Freezy_Breezy:

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

He's analysing the how's and whys of "Why should I give a shit and how much emotional attention should I give to this topic" and the answer is, despite the ranting and raving that the internet spawns as usual, is none.

You can't do anything about this, people are dickheads and anonymity grants this a whole new level. THIS IS NOT NEW NOR UNFORESEEABLE. This is not a shallow mindset, this is a reasonable and realistic mindset.

It goes beyond "I should feel bad about this because I'm expected to", which, honestly, describes like 60% of this website. Let's get up in arms because we feel we should! Yeah! Can we do anything? No! But let's feel better about ourselves anyway!

Considering that viewpoint (not caring and why bother) is relevant to absolutely every topic I can conceivable imagine, it's hard to respect it as anything other then posting for the sake of posting. If you fall into that mindset, how about not posting ever, since what's the point in caring if posting doesn't amount to anything substantial.

Its also NOT critical analyses.

Critical: inclined to find fault or to judge with severity (He judges with severity a subject not on discussion)

Analyse: Detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation. (if anything he complete ignores the elements of the subject and decides they are beneath him, starting his own discussion).

At the very most he offers a cursory opinion on the subject, before he starts to target a different aspect of the post (the Kickstarter at the centre of this mess). Only to be dragged back into the discussion at hand by people who were not fond of his fleeting interest in the subject.

As for not caring?
Ignoring his post just a above mine (which is just above yours) where he states the subject DOES get to him but because he can't do anything why should he bother, he was fairly invested on railing on the Kickstarter project, criticising it and its goals (and the Authors intents) based off of nothing BUT the kickstarter page, despite it not being relative to the topic at hand (topic was about the assholes spreading unintentionally ironic sexist abuse and deliberately trying sabotage her project. Also the RPS link the OP posted).

So while you might be able to say you don't care, he certainly does... just that he doesn't think he can do anything... oh and also doesn't like people who just vent their frustration apparently.

Awareness is it's own result, people.

Apathy is death!

Its a predictable response to a predictable rant. She choose to be a feminist link bait troll, that is what she is, and it is a very successful model, look at jezebel. Take outrageous stances, cry hysteria, generate rage, benefit from rage, as no publicity is bad publicity.

You could expect the same if some loser guy decided to do some socialogical study/attack on twilight as being filled with sexism against men.

jon4laker's made 12 VIDEOS on YouTube comparing Xbox360 vs PS3, and many went 10+ mins. HIS WORK in breaking down the hardware was insightful.

She's going to cover two decades of games? They encompass nearly every artistic genre.

This is like covering 'books' (in general) for the last fifteen years.
Will she cover female characters from Japanese games? How about the US? UK? Western vs Eastern? RPG vs FPS? MMO's?
THIS IS A WORLDWIDE MEDIUM OF ENTERTAINMENT.

Ragsnstitches:
snip

Heh, that was long and detailed. A deep look and my posts and thoughts. Interesting.

Still no arguments on the actual subject at hand though, which is also interesting.

I'll get to this later and pick it apart in all it's glory, but right now I need some sleep. One more thing though -

Ragsnstitches:
I also can't help but notice you don't like being ganged up on... feeling a bit victimised are we? I wonder how that feels.

Oh Rag. I have an inkling you know the feeling better than I do.

DrVornoff:
So I'm supposed to carry an entire discussion by talking to an empty room?

No, I'm here, reading. Talk to me.

DrVornoff:
Then I'm not reading past this point.

Apparently you did....

DrVornoff:
You say you're rational, but everyone thinks they're rational. Doesn't mean shit.

Inclined to agree actually, in hindsight that was a stupid thing to say - I think all of us are being ANYTHING but rational here, me included.

DrVornoff:
I know at some point, some moron will say something about the freedom of speech. But the freedom from speech is not freedom from consequence. If you let assholes be assholes, they'll just get worse.

Oh that's right. You won't because this is the internet and nothing about it matters. So much so, that you just can't wait to tell us all about it and how we're foolish we all are for not agreeing with you.

What I'm asking for here is an idea, a spark, something that could solve the problem of massive harassment on the internet. Until now I haven't heard one, and I haven't been able to think of one either.

I try not to worry about things I can't change, however devastating they may be - some may frown upon that but I think it's quite reasonable. This Kickstarter sexism thing is one thing I can't do anything about. The only thing I can do is not comment on that video or leave something positive if I feel so inclined, which is something I've already done. (Maybe not positive, but you know.)

So for what feels like the 10th time, why don't we all stop screaming about the terror of it all and just think about the causes and solutions. Don't want to do it? Fine. Want to rage needlessly instead? Fine. But don't act all surprised and offended when you make an aggressive post and get an aggressive reply. I certainly don't.

DrVornoff:
then fuck off.

lol

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
What I'm asking for here is an idea, a spark, something that could solve the problem of massive harassment on the internet. Until now I haven't heard one, and I haven't been able to think of one either.

Pfft. I suggested killing the guilty parties and you SCOFFED and told me I was being unreasonable.

Unreasonable!

ME!

Know what concerns me? That people keep attributing misogynistic behavior to video gamers like we have a monopoly on it. It is hardly something unique to the gaming culture, in fact, I'd say it's is FAR more prevalent a theme in the vast majority of national cultures, especially major religious cultures, than in video games.

Beyond that, why the hell are we blaming gaming culture for this? Of the millions of people who play video games, a few thousand act like pigs, and yet we all get blamed for it? Not to mention I'd bet good money that the vast majority of the people who are sending her threats don't play games at all, they're too busy building bombs in their shacks and prepping for the fall of civilization cause all the gays and women aren't staying in the closet/kitchen like God wanted them to.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I try not to worry about things I can't change, however devastating they may be

But by coming into this thread and giving people like me grief for getting angry, that's not what you're doing. If you were truly secure in that idea, why did you feel the need to talk smack on people?

Dealing with harassment online is difficult because there's no way to punch anyone, we all know this. And the most obvious solutions that leap to my mind, like using locating someone's email address and opening them up to responses from the people they harass might give me a weak schadenfreude, but then I'd feel like an asshole too.

I do believe there's a way we can curtail this, but at the moment I'm short on ideas. And I'm hoping that finding someone else to talk with will get the ball rolling. But I can't be expected to hold up the conversation by myself.

wetnap:
Its a predictable response to a predictable rant. She choose to be a feminist link bait troll, that is what she is, and it is a very successful model, look at jezebel. Take outrageous stances, cry hysteria, generate rage, benefit from rage, as no publicity is bad publicity.

You could expect the same if some loser guy decided to do some socialogical study/attack on twilight as being filled with sexism against men.

I shouldn't even bother replying to an argument as shallow as this...
But I get the impression you haven't watched anything of hers.

Her Kickstarter request video was noticeably modeled after her other videos. Same tone of voice and all. It was all done in the same style... She simply wants it to look nicer.

(Again, in my opinion, she doesn't need 100,000 dollars to do this... But I find the goal she's going for perfectly acceptable).

She's not trolling >_>

him over there:

Freezy_Breezy:

Ragsnstitches:
This isn't critical thinking. He isn't analysing the hows and whys of the things that are happening, he's saying "yeah shits bad, but what can I do about it" and then burying his head so he doesn't have to feel bad about it. That's a pretty shallow mindset, hardly worthy of such praise.

Just because it resonates with your own opinion doesn't mean it runs any deeper or reaches broader subjects.

He's analysing the how's and whys of "Why should I give a shit and how much emotional attention should I give to this topic" and the answer is, despite the ranting and raving that the internet spawns as usual, is none.

You can't do anything about this, people are dickheads and anonymity grants this a whole new level. THIS IS NOT NEW NOR UNFORESEEABLE. This is not a shallow mindset, this is a reasonable and realistic mindset.

It goes beyond "I should feel bad about this because I'm expected to", which, honestly, describes like 60% of this website. Let's get up in arms because we feel we should! Yeah! Can we do anything? No! But let's feel better about ourselves anyway!

I just wanted to second this. Nobosy on this site seems to ever think in any way besides "that is so horrible and that is bad". Rarely have I seen people talk about solutions, or causes or anything else besides that what happened was bad and then move on. At least Smash said something.

What do I think sends huge hate mobs off like this? Well I have a story. I'm sure many of you can relate to it in some way, whether that be directly or from hearing other similar stories. So when I was littler, about Fourth Grade all the kids ran around calling each other faggots and cunts. Obviously homophobic and partially sexist but plenty of us didn't even know or could conceive of the concept of sexuality or gender discrimination. We had simply picked up the language when we were little and used it for the sole reason we knew they were bad words. Then of course we grew up and realised that we couldn't run around calling people faggotcunts anymore but most people I know fought it. Despite the obvious hate behind the words most arguments are merely "but that wasn't the context we were using them in" etc. And to be fair it wasn't, I doubt any of us had purposely homophobic or sexist intentions, though that didn't make it any more acceptable. The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't the fact that you're trying to make people less bigoted that sets them off, rather that you're trying to change them at all. people appreciate a status quote, and it's uncomfortable to get rid of it when it's been around for so long.

"Despite the obvious hate behind the words most arguments are merely "but that wasn't the context we were using them in" etc. And to be fair it wasn't, I doubt any of us had purposely homophobic or sexist intentions, though that didn't make it any more acceptable."

You know, you might be right... I wonder if I apply this reasoning to any other potential daily confrontation, would it makes things better?

Running down a street and its not an emergency I'm just a bit impatient. I bump into someone, knocking them down. I didn't mean to knock them down, the running was intended to get me somewhere faster not to bowl over passer-bys. I don't bother apologising or help them out as obviously I didn't do anything wrong, they're just being unreasonable when they give me dirty looks and shout after me calling be an ignorant brute. I also don't slow down as the well being of everyone around me is not my responsibility.

Wow, the release of that burden makes me feel so much better.

So I just broke a window after kicking a ball. I was kicking it off a wall and I didn't mean for it to go through the window. Because obviously I didn't mean it, I won't tell the owners of the damaged window, apologise about it and offer to pay it off in some way or form. Whats more, I won't take a break from kicking the ball around (don't ask how I got it back) or kick it an area less susceptible to damage, as the property around me isn't my responsibility.

That certainly makes me feel better, especially the fact I don't have the angry person who owns the window.

So I was chatting with my friends when, in jest, I said something along the lines of "your mom has aids" to one of them. Everything went awkwardly silent, until another one of the group came over and planted his fist in my Face. Whats his problem? So what if his sister has HIV, I obviously didn't mean offend him, it was obviously a crude joke that wasn't completely out of nowhere, directed at the other friend who doesn't have a terminally ill family member. I didn't deserve to have my nose rearranged because he takes such things to heart. I also won't keep check of what I say, because other peoples feelings are not my responsibility.

Wait... wait a minute! This makes me sound like an asshole.

Ragsnstitches:
snap

Did you thoroughly read my post? I specifically said that type of argument didn't fly, I even said that that didn't make it any more acceptable. It was merely what people immediately jumped to when confronted with their problematic language. My point was that people didn't want to keep the ability to call each other faggots or cunts because they're homophobic or sexist but rather because people hate having the status quote disrupted.

him over there:
My point was that people didn't want to keep the ability to call each other faggots or cunts because they're homophobic or sexist but rather because people hate having the status quote disrupted.

I think he's suggesting that's not a particularly interesting or sympathetic defense.

BloatedGuppy:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
What I'm asking for here is an idea, a spark, something that could solve the problem of massive harassment on the internet. Until now I haven't heard one, and I haven't been able to think of one either.

Pfft. I suggested killing the guilty parties and you SCOFFED and told me I was being unreasonable.

Unreasonable!

ME!

Well, now that you say it again... :P

We need Daystar, I need permission to use my death squads to torture youtube account holders with terrible music and videos. (Semi-obscure forum banter reference.)

DrVornoff:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I try not to worry about things I can't change, however devastating they may be

But by coming into this thread and giving people like me grief for getting angry, that's not what you're doing. If you were truly secure in that idea, why did you feel the need to talk smack on people?

Dealing with harassment online is difficult because there's no way to punch anyone, we all know this. And the most obvious solutions that leap to my mind, like using locating someone's email address and opening them up to responses from the people they harass might give me a weak schadenfreude, but then I'd feel like an asshole too.

I do believe there's a way we can curtail this, but at the moment I'm short on ideas. And I'm hoping that finding someone else to talk with will get the ball rolling. But I can't be expected to hold up the conversation by myself.

Kinda goes back to giving less of a shit, doesn't it? If people would just let stupid people make their stupid movies we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. That was my original point - not only should people stop raging about people throwing insults around, the people throwing insults around should also stop raging.

But in all seriousness, that's just not gonna happen. We all love a nasty flame war, this thread is evidence of that. I think the roots of this whole thing go back to sexism and all that.

You've got misguided "feminists" who think everything and anything is out there to insult and degrade women, then you've got misguided males who think everything and anything is out there to throw them down into the depths of hell, where they will live as slaves of women till the end of days. It's a recipe for disaster.

What we really need is some "real" feminists to come forward. Women who have been fighting for equality over the years without feeling the need to make bullshit statistics or claims, or make documentaries which aim to manipulate instead of provoke thought.

I think really the problem is, girls are taught how oh so oppressed they are and have always been in school from day one, which obviously isn't nice and leads to the kind of feminazi you see to many of today. Then you've got the boys sitting on the other side of the classroom thinking "Hey, what the fuck is this all about? I didn't do anything! Why are all these girls looking at me like I'm the devil?". I know that's what the 5 or so schools I visited were like.

What you're left with is this weird, skewed version of equality where everyone feels threatened. And then men flock to a common cause when an easy target presents itself. She's accusing men of doing something wrong, she's focusing on only that, she's one of those GURL GAMERS, her channel is called FeministFrequency. Boom - disaster.

I just realized I'm drifting WAY to far off topic again, so I'm gonna stop here. I still think this is the root of the problem.

BloatedGuppy:

him over there:
My point was that people didn't want to keep the ability to call each other faggots or cunts because they're homophobic or sexist but rather because people hate having the status quote disrupted.

I think he's suggesting that's not a particularly interesting or sympathetic defense.

Oh, that wasn't a defense so much as me trying to establish a cause for these fucking online hate mobs. I wasn't saying that to defend them, rather explain them.

Zydrate:
She's not trolling >_>

I think she certainly knew what was coming her way. Maybe she got more than she bargained for. But I find it hard to believe she was brewing that shitstorm without realizing what was in the pot.

Not saying she had it coming, but I dunno... Maybe there was a little baiting thrown into the mix there.

What we really need is some "real" feminists to come forward. Women who have been fighting for equality over the years without feeling the need to make bullshit statistics or claims, or make documentaries which aim to manipulate instead of provoke thought.

*raises hand?*

Mostly keeping on the down-low. There's no talking to any of these people anyway. Fun fact I've discovered about the internet: I have not ONCE ever seen ANYONE say, "You know what? You're right."

It's always like "Fair point, but..." At best.

Zydrate:
It's always like "Fair point, but..."

Fair point, but people have a hard time reaching consensus, especially when you take opinion polarization into account.

BloatedGuppy:
opinion polarization

Not familiar with the term.
Elaborate?

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
What we really need is some "real" feminists to come forward.

Trouble is, they do. And they inevitably get screamed down by the same insecure, emasculated little boys you describe. The kind who are so scared of women that they feel the need to verbally harass them online, though not in person because then the big scary cops would come by and get all Politically Correct on their asses.

I really do believe that modern culture has this weird fear of femininity. And men have forgotten how to be men.

I must say, I disapprove of her video in which she had a segment about Legos. She stated that the male firemen would come to put out the fire. Well, yes. I'd like to see YOU (referring to her) lift a grown man out of a burning building. Granted, some women can. But it's just not in the cards for every woman.

In the same way, there are also some male bakers. But the fact that one gender dominates a role is to be expected. It just can't be that there is an equal amount of male and females in every career. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's alright for a career or indeed a game to have a 10-man crew be 9 men and 1 woman, but...

EDIT: Why does she need money, exactly? I know she's funding a series, but what is the money going to do for her?

meepop:
I must say, I disapprove of her video in which she had a segment about Legos.

Really? I found her Legoes videos to be some of the best she had. They were strangely even... She was merely asking for the more gender-neutral stuff.

I have a Lego table and a small built base under siege... RIGHT BEHIND ME.
I like Legoes. But the stories I write about them are consistently violent because that's the only thing for sale. I'd love to have some non-pink Cafe's in my stories so my heroes can finally take a goddamn break.

I'm 23, by the way. I feel the need to note that >_>

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Ragsnstitches:
snip

Heh, that was long and detailed. A deep look and my posts and thoughts. Interesting.

Still no arguments on the actual subject at hand though, which is also interesting.

I'll get to this later and pick it apart in all it's glory, but right now I need some sleep. One more thing though -

Ragsnstitches:
I also can't help but notice you don't like being ganged up on... feeling a bit victimised are we? I wonder how that feels.

Oh Rag. I have an inkling you know the feeling better than I do.

1st off, that jab sailed right over me. Citation might be needed.

Okay, I'll bite. Let's discuss the topic at hand, but before we go into it, lets make sure we are at least on the same page and know what this topic is.

My view of the topic at hand (the one Bloatedguppy started): In the broadest sense this topic is about Sexism (Duh), in particular the kind we see on the internet. We can both generally agree that what was shown in the OP was both grossly offensive but completely typical. However, there is also a belligerent element particular to this topic (the kickstarter) that I find unbearable. There is a concious and co-ordinated (relatively) effort to sabotage her project. It will likely fail but that isn't the point...

This goes BEYOND stating opinions. This is an attempt at imposing ones will over another. These people don't like what they see and instead of boycotting or criticising the project, they attack her and the project directly. That is inexcusable.

Sexism be damned, my issue here is how malicious the whole thing is. I have my own view on sexism and I deal with in my own way, but this worries me and I can't just "let it slide". I also can't bury my head in the sand and hope it goes away. This is also NOT the only place I'm discussing this issue. I've chimed in on this topic elsewhere, including with real people who MIGHT actually be able to offer a solution or at least spread the word to people who might.

Okay? I think we can take the next step.

My reasoning for partaking in these discussions (and getting involved with this kickstarter) is that I don't believe wilful ignorance will makes things better but will actually get WORSE.

So my stance is this: Show no quarter. These people can't have a cushion of complacency and indifference to fall onto. Especially not on the scale we see here... I agree it will never go away, but the least we can do is make it abundantly clear that they aren't welcome and if possible, force them back into the recesses of the various offensive chan sites and its ilk, where they can fester and circle jerk over their painfully low wit until the end of days.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I try not to worry about things I can't change, however devastating they may be - some may frown upon that but I think it's quite reasonable.

Yet you will be argumentative towards people who do? So you don't care about the issues facing the world/internet/forum whatever, just the people talking about them?

Let me try that again... You try not to worry about things that you can't change BUT will argue the reasons for caring about things that people want to argue about?

image

This seems Vaguely antagonistic.

meepop:
EDIT: Why does she need money, exactly? I know she's funding a series, but what is the money going to do for her?

Better recording equipment? Better editing software? Computer upgrades to make the production process easier?

I'm honestly surprised so many people are asking this.

Ragsnstitches:
This goes BEYOND stating opinions. This is an attempt at imposing ones will over another. These people don't like what they see and instead of boycotting or criticising the project, they attack her and the project directly. That is inexcusable.

See, this is what I was getting at before. It's not that these fucking creepazoids are misogynists that pisses me off so much. It's how they act on those feelings. It's completely unacceptable in a civilized society to behave this way.

DrVornoff:

meepop:
EDIT: Why does she need money, exactly? I know she's funding a series, but what is the money going to do for her?

Better recording equipment? Better editing software? Computer upgrades to make the production process easier?

I'm honestly surprised so many people are asking this.

I think the thing that will really grind people is that she needs to play games in order to analyse them. So yeah, costs include games to play...

I can see where some reactions can come from. If I was to fund her, it would be with the lowest possible amount because I want her to do this, but I don't want to pay for a gaming binge...

This is a weird one really.

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