JonTron insults Platstation Now, Tumblr has a shit fit *UPDATE*

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Ratty:
JonTron thinks being offended is dumb and tantamount to censorship from people who are just too sensitive and "PC".
Unless of course he's the one who is offended.
image

The hypocrisy is palpable. As PsychadelicEyeball put it on twitter "JonTron sure knows how to dig a grave. I went from thinking the response to his tweets was being too excessive to totally warranted."

jon's comment was directed at an inanimate object, russian guyovich's comment was directed at jon himself, theres the difference

if someone insulted you, feeling offended is perfectly normal, and its the fault of the person who insulted you, when someone didnt insult you, or your family, or your culture, or your god or your race, etc and you STILL feel offended, thats your fault, you are actively LOOKING to feel insulted

context and intent, jon was talking about a service from a game console, he wasnt calling that service mentally disabled, he was calling it stupid, tough even "stupid" can be considered a slur, more on that later

like the way some atheists find it insulting when people pray for the well being of others, should be ban praying as well?

should we ban words like "crazy" or "derp" or "stupid" or "freak"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations

ayvee:

Savagezion:
snip.

Yeah no.

Are we really at a point where intentionally offending people is something that we're going to heroize? I mean it's one thing if you just don't care, but to think that by invoking slurs against marginalized groups you're doing a favor to them?

The only "thinking" a homosexual is going to have in response to a homophobic slur is how messed up things still are for us. And so on.

First, I am not heroizing anything. I am stating that if someone saves a word for people to use to offend them with, and someone uses that word - it isn't the fault of the person who used the word. If the word faggot offends someone, perhaps they should consider thinking about why. Is someone that says "fucking faggot" any worse than someone who says "fucking homosexual"? If I call someone a dummy head in a nasty tone is it really any different calling them fucking stupid in a nasty tone? Words only have the power you lend them. If you lend power to slurs, you are to blame if you get hurt by them.

Kids can understand this very logic with "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will NEVER hurt me." Nowadays, we got grown people saying 'words hurt'. I say they can hurt if you let them. Intention matters more than the word itself. There is no such thing as a 'bad word' as words are neutral. If a word expresses an idea or emotion, then it is a 'good word' by definition. Feel free to make what you will of the person behind the words but the word is just a word.

I think JonTron shouldn't have responded and just kept on going without acknowledgement it.
It would have blown over, but him responding is what triggered this whole thing.

While I understand why people would get offended by use of the word, I still stand by people's right to say whatever they wish.

I mean retard means slow (like 'fire retardant'), retarded while yes is often used to mean an insult to those with mental illness.
I can take it as meaning, a slow or out of date mindset. Sony's pricing model for PS Now is just that. Out of date.

I dunno, I see why people get annoyed, but really I think it's much ado about nothing.

Just tumblr being tumblr, it's retarded. His big mistake was throwing the SJWs the bone of paying attention to their puerile manufactured offense and trying to argue; just tell 'em to do one and get on with not kowtowing to the whim of every deluded 18 year old who thinks far left wing posturing equates to being "right".

GundamSentinel:

Scrumpmonkey:
"On second thought lets not go to Twitter, tis a silly place"

This right here. Twitter is just about the least useful place to have a discussion about anything. Personally, I have no problem with people calling things retarded, and I doubt many actually retarded people have either. Hell, I have a brother who would probably be classified as retarded, not like he cares...

Also: what's a JonTron and why should we care what he/she/it thinks?

JonTron is a YouTube personality which a bit of a brash public image. I only heard of him after the "Game Jam" debacle and from that he actually seemed like a pretty nice dude in real life. I think his media persona is slightly amped up so people cling more to that.

I think you could class much of what is posted on Twitter as pretty retarded, the place is full of meaningless noise. I'm from the 'new generation' who is supposed to be vapidly obsessed with social media and i just find there is very little of meaning on there. Discussion is truncated by design.

I agree people go FAR out of their way to get offended by the word though; people like to feel good about themselves and standing up for a group you have little or no knowledge of or contact with who you see as under attack gives people a brief moral ego boost. I think what winds people up when they do this is they are doing it online where it can't really have any impact and is mostly done semi-anonymously. If you go out of your way to tell people off for saying something is 'retarded' and they are not directly attacking disabled people then you are a moralistic fuck-hole who is being arrogant and winding people up. Needlessly 'correcting' people and acting superior is dickish in any context. Don't do it.

An example. A lot of people have been getting wound up recently about the use of the word 'tranny'. Now this would seem to be more of an American thing. Here in the UK the word IS merely an abbreviation in most cases that many older transsexuals still self identify with. We still have what are widely referred to as "Tranny Bars" and have done for decades.

I've seen people on YouTube be forced by their community to make groveling apologies for using the word. I saw people in threads recently complaining about their level of offense over a passing pun Yhatzee made. All i can say is this; being hypersensitive and having a persecution complex is the fasted way to get everyone's back up. Not everyone has the same stance as you. Not everyone uses words culturally like you do. Not everyone has the same sense of humor.

THINK before you needlessly weigh into something and tell people they are wrong. Because you where offended on someone elses behalf in some way does not give you the automatic right to constantly antagonize people. It comes off as passive-aggressive self aggrandizing.

Are you commenting on something because you think it would genuinely hurt someone or are you being the know-it-all school prefect pointing out the letter of your self-styled politically correct code? Because if you do just want to be officious then you deserve to be told to fuck right off.

Savagezion:

ayvee:

Savagezion:
snip.

Yeah no.

Are we really at a point where intentionally offending people is something that we're going to heroize? I mean it's one thing if you just don't care, but to think that by invoking slurs against marginalized groups you're doing a favor to them?

The only "thinking" a homosexual is going to have in response to a homophobic slur is how messed up things still are for us. And so on.

First, I am not heroizing anything. I am stating that if someone saves a word for people to use to offend them with, and someone uses that word - it isn't the fault of the person who used the word. If the word faggot offends someone, perhaps they should consider thinking about why. Is someone that says "fucking faggot" any worse than someone who says "fucking homosexual"? If I call someone a dummy head in a nasty tone is it really any different calling them fucking stupid in a nasty tone? Words only have the power you lend them. If you lend power to slurs, you are to blame if you get hurt by them.

Kids can understand this very logic with "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will NEVER hurt me." Nowadays, we got grown people saying 'words hurt'. I say they can hurt if you let them. Intention matters more than the word itself. There is no such thing as a 'bad word' as words are neutral. If a word expresses an idea or emotion, then it is a 'good word' by definition. Feel free to make what you will of the person behind the words but the word is just a word.

You're taking responsibility for the use of words away from the people using them and trying to hold up offending people as necessarily good for the people being offended. I don't know how you define heroizing, but.

I'm not straight, and I promise you that I have considerably more insight into what it's like to be called a "fucking faggot" than some self-righteous comedian. There are no more angles to this word that I need to consider. An emotion (or an idea, for that matter) is not inherently good. You're contradicting yourself if you say words can't be bad because they're neutral, but they can be good if they make you feel something. And no kidding intention matters. Intention can be a huge part of how you're marginalizing someone. If someone calls me a "fucking faggot" they're probably not trying to get on my good side. But yes, I should just be thankful that they decided to grace me with the chance to have this deep faggot-inspired insight into the human condition. How thoughtful of them.

Savagezion:
Kids can understand this very logic with "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will NEVER hurt me."

Kids know this is horseshit.

A kid told me recently that "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can make me think I deserved it."

How messed up is that?

I think Rick and Morty had the best thing to say on this issue:

Saltyk:

Zachary Amaranth:

Saltyk:
As someone who spent a few years in Severely Learning Disabled classes, took years to learn to tie my shoes, and even had difficulty telling the difference between "d" and "b", the Tumblr response is retarded.

Is it your testimony that you speak for all people with disabilities?

If not, saying "it's not an offensive word" is absurd. Not to mention kind of callous.

Spare me. Words are not offensive. You choose to be offended by them.

And I have far more knowledge of what it is to be mentally handicapped than most people. Even those who have handicapped family. Handicapped people don't want you to look down on them. Or protect them. They want you to respect them, just like any other person. And you feigning outrage over someone using retarded as an "insult" is not respecting them. You're making the insult offensive to you, not the handicapped.

So move on to something else that "offends" you.

Well said sir.

Had that same issue with "d"s and "b"s myself and took fucking ages to learn how to tie my shoes. Now I'm one of the most literate people in my social circle.

'Retarded' is just a word.

lacktheknack:

Savagezion:
[quote="ayvee" post="9.857138.21239743"]Kids can understand this very logic with "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will NEVER hurt me."

Kids know this is horseshit.

A kid told me recently that "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can make me think I deserved it."

How messed up is that?

Wow, that is really deep and thought provoking...and sadly very true. I'm going to have to remember that one!

As to the topic i'm baffled...i call all sorts of things retarded and nobody gives me any grief over it. But them i'm not a sad pathetic bastard that uses twitter to try and pretend that people ACTUALLY give a shit about me...i have friends that show they do and that is more than enough to keep me happy!

Elijin:

I imagine tumbr thinks its more self aware and critical thinking too.

I see a lot of negative generalisations thrown around by people who have seen this or that, but almost every actual tumblr user I've encountered on The Escapist says the same thing: You get out of it what you choose to, as its a system which displays content entirely based on what you choose to follow.

I use Tumblr, as do a bunch of my friends (Which is more or less why I use it.) All I see are art blogs, videogame gifs, tattoo enthusiasts and the odd TV and movie joke.

If you go there looking for negative examples, you'll find negative examples. It doesn't mean that's all it is, or it's pervasive across the website.

My friend convinced me to make a tumblr account around early 2010, but I never used it until late 2012 and stopped mid 2013.
But my friend never stopped. Now I love my friend and always will, but he has lost all ability to to understand jokes. He's also become obsessed with female characters in fiction especially (in my opinion) the horrible ones. It's not like he's blogging about social justice, there might be a few reblogs here and there. There's just something about the atmosphere. It amplifies our desire to be the victim to be in the right and just. I'm Christian so I mean no great offense, but Christianity uses the same principle. The more you oppress a Christian the more resolute they become, for if god is with us who can oppose? It breeds extremism, and that's the environment tumblr encourages.

basically,
Tumblr fucked up my friend and he's no fun now
Also, probably same mentality as religious extremists

Casual Shinji:

Lunar Templar:
That PS Now thing is retarded, and people really should be giving more of a shit about real world issues then weather or not some one on the internet shares your stance on 'which gaming platform is best'

Well, then that means no arguement or criticism is ever validated in the face of real world horror. I suppose that means the Jimquistion should pack up, since who cares about issues in the gaming industry when people are dying in third-world countries and warzones.

Considering that one is an industry the world could survive with out and did for century's and the other is an on going racial/religious war that's be raging for even longer.

Yeah, what EA and Ubisoft are doing to fuck us over DOESN'T mean jack shit in comparison.

But the point, which I'm not surprised you missed, is the total lack of priority for what is and is not worthy of attention and 'outrage' on the internet is FUBAR.

What EA and Ubisoft are doing to fuck, IS, worthy of note, and people getting bent out of shape about because that isn't 'just a video game industry issue' its a consumer rights issue, and consumer rights need to be defended. There for, actually worth of note.

People being murdered for no other reason then what ever non existent 'supreme being' they think exists, doesn't match up exactly with the next groups non existent 'supreme being', IS a problem worthy of discussion, and worthy of outrage.

Some semi 'famous' fat guy with a dumb hat and a bird using the word 'retard', for any reason, is not worthy of note even in the slightest, especially since I doubt even a quarter of the people that get offended by its use actually care about who the word may or may not be hurting.

TLDR; Get your priority's straight and learn what is actually worth getting bent out of shape about. Cause this isn't one of those things.

Lunar Templar:

Casual Shinji:
Well, then that means no arguement or criticism is ever validated in the face of real world horror. I suppose that means the Jimquistion should pack up, since who cares about issues in the gaming industry when people are dying in third-world countries and warzones.

Considering that one is an industry the world could survive with out and did for century's and the other is an on going racial/religious war that's be raging for even longer.

Yeah, what EA and Ubisoft are doing to fuck us over DOESN'T mean jack shit in comparison.

But the point, which I'm not surprised you missed, is the total lack of priority for what is and is not worthy of attention and 'outrage' on the internet is FUBAR.

Only when the priority suits the person in question, in this case JonTron. You think he was wondering whether or not making a post on twitter complaining about Playstation Now was worth it considering the bad things that happen in the world? No, he only pulled that when the crowd turned on him. He hid behind an undeniable injustice (which had nothing to do with the current topic) to shush any criticism. That's like someone pulling out a dead relative when they're being criticized for acting like a dick. "Don't you feel guilty now!?"

Ratty:

Alek_the_Great:
There's a difference between being offended over a word that isn't even used in reference towards you or someone you know and being offended over a comment directed solely towards you or your character that has obvious negative connotations. Saying "getting offended over a word is stupid" is not the same as saying "you can never be offended over anything ever".

But he didn't say "getting offended at a word" he said "I think being offended by something is a stupid concept". He said "something" not "a word". Big difference. He was being dismissive to all people who might be offended about anything, about the concept of being offended.

The_Kodu:
Honestly here it's a case of contextual use.

It wasn't used as an insult yet someone was offended on another persons behalf because of the word being mentioned and took it as an insult against someone.

Then Jon did insult said person almost as a joke to say is this why you're offended.

Yeah but like I said, he made a broad statement about being offended in general. Not about being offended at the use of certain words.

The_Kodu:
As for this. The girl in question was considering what Jon Tron did a personal comment about the how disposable her and her family were that their potential deaths could be used in such a callus way.

Did Jon target her family and say he didn't care or did he use a generalised example of a horrific event to claim maybe I'm not the biggest evil around guys.

I mean this is Jon Tron. The guy who went to Disneyland with friends to avoid any more shouting and blame throwing from the Game jam event. That should tell you how little he likes ending up on situations of conflict, sure it happens to him but it doesn't mean he seeks it out just that his expression of his feelings can sometimes be a bit blunt.

It's a pretty tasteless time and way to bring up the tragic death of children. How about if he's really concerned about the slaughter in Gaza HE does something about it. Find a charity to help the Palestinian civilians and do a fundraiser. The way he framed it he used these deaths to take pressure off of himself, it was all about him.

My take is that Jon isn't making it about him but asking why people are making it about him and putting such effort and energy into fighting the perceived injustice he's comitted while incidents like Gaza are happening and their energy energy could be far better spent.

He's pointing out that there are far better monsters to tackle rather than dress him up as one.

JonTron is right. The entire blow up was utterly stupid.

The_Kodu:

Ratty:

Alek_the_Great:
There's a difference between being offended over a word that isn't even used in reference towards you or someone you know and being offended over a comment directed solely towards you or your character that has obvious negative connotations. Saying "getting offended over a word is stupid" is not the same as saying "you can never be offended over anything ever".

But he didn't say "getting offended at a word" he said "I think being offended by something is a stupid concept". He said "something" not "a word". Big difference. He was being dismissive to all people who might be offended about anything, about the concept of being offended.

The_Kodu:
Honestly here it's a case of contextual use.

It wasn't used as an insult yet someone was offended on another persons behalf because of the word being mentioned and took it as an insult against someone.

Then Jon did insult said person almost as a joke to say is this why you're offended.

Yeah but like I said, he made a broad statement about being offended in general. Not about being offended at the use of certain words.

The_Kodu:
As for this. The girl in question was considering what Jon Tron did a personal comment about the how disposable her and her family were that their potential deaths could be used in such a callus way.

Did Jon target her family and say he didn't care or did he use a generalised example of a horrific event to claim maybe I'm not the biggest evil around guys.

I mean this is Jon Tron. The guy who went to Disneyland with friends to avoid any more shouting and blame throwing from the Game jam event. That should tell you how little he likes ending up on situations of conflict, sure it happens to him but it doesn't mean he seeks it out just that his expression of his feelings can sometimes be a bit blunt.

It's a pretty tasteless time and way to bring up the tragic death of children. How about if he's really concerned about the slaughter in Gaza HE does something about it. Find a charity to help the Palestinian civilians and do a fundraiser. The way he framed it he used these deaths to take pressure off of himself, it was all about him.

My take is that Jon isn't making it about him but asking why people are making it about him and putting such effort and energy into fighting the perceived injustice he's comitted while incidents like Gaza are happening and their energy energy could be far better spent.

He's pointing out that there are far better monsters to tackle rather than dress him up as one.

Potentially, but there's another level. The old meme of "first world problems" was meant as an insult to people that had their head so far up their privileged ass they couldn't see that a minor flaw in their life was still pretty good by comparison. Pointing out worse problems is an insult by implying you are similarly narcissistic and selfish. Other people go through life in much harsher conditions and much more adversity, yet you shut down because you heard a word you don't like. It's not just to say you have a paper cut and this guy as a missing limb, he goes first level of triage, but to try and spell out that one is not really a problem, while the other is, and that if you really understood real hardship, you might not even see what you're complaining about as a complaint.

Some of what he said is in bad taste, but it's a good reminder that not only are you lucky if hearing the word retarded as an insult is the worst thing that's happened to you today, but it doesn't say much good about you if you can't deal with it to the point of needing people to watch their words for your benefit.

Well, he dug a hole for himself. He called something retarded and someone politely asked him to stop. Now, instead of apologizing and/or saying it wasn't directed at mentally handicapped people and letting the point stick (Frankly, I think PS Now is pretty dumb), he decided to derail his own point with childish insults.

And I also saw him and his fans use the terms "PC" and "Social censorship", as if trying to paint him as the victim and further derail the "discussion".

Casual Shinji:

Lunar Templar:

Casual Shinji:
Well, then that means no arguement or criticism is ever validated in the face of real world horror. I suppose that means the Jimquistion should pack up, since who cares about issues in the gaming industry when people are dying in third-world countries and warzones.

Considering that one is an industry the world could survive with out and did for century's and the other is an on going racial/religious war that's be raging for even longer.

Yeah, what EA and Ubisoft are doing to fuck us over DOESN'T mean jack shit in comparison.

But the point, which I'm not surprised you missed, is the total lack of priority for what is and is not worthy of attention and 'outrage' on the internet is FUBAR.

Only when the priority suits the person in question, in this case JonTron. You think he was wondering whether or not making a post on twitter complaining about Playstation Now was worth it considering the bad things that happen in the world? No, he only pulled that when the crowd turned on him. He hid behind an undeniable injustice (which had nothing to do with the current topic) to shush any criticism. That's like someone pulling out a dead relative when they're being criticized for acting like a dick. "Don't you feel guilty now!?"

So.

It doesn't make this nontroversy any less of of a waste of every ones time and energy. People are dicks all the time, more so on the internet where they can be a dick an not get punched in the teeth, as so many desperately deserve, getting pissy about it isn't going to change that. It's only going to encourage a large chunk of them.

The best thing every one could have done was to just ignore it and move on, instead of wasting every ones time with ANOTHER fake 'crisis'

TheMigrantSoldier:

And I also saw him and his fans use the terms "PC" and "Social censorship", as if trying to paint him as the victim and further derail the "discussion".

Who cares who the victim is? It is overzealous political correctness trying to police people's words.

Also you used dumb, so I think you should apologize for any person who may have been offended by that.

(That last part was ironic).

Lovely Mixture:

TheMigrantSoldier:

And I also saw him and his fans use the terms "PC" and "Social censorship", as if trying to paint him as the victim and further derail the "discussion".

Who cares who the victim is? It is overzealous political correctness trying to police people's words.

Also you used dumb, so I think you should apologize for any person who may have been offended by that.

(That last part was ironic).

You misunderstood me. I'm not offended that Jon used that word to describe an inanimate object (I literally just said the same thing to myself when I found out about it), I'm just pointing out that someone politely asked him to stop and he childishly took his anger out on the reply with those defending him over the first reply in question with things along the "PC White Knights trying to censor him".

I also doubt the defense would have been as strong if his opposition wasn't from Tumblr.

Tumblr would have a shitfit if someone cured all diseases and call them cancer/AIDS murderers... just because gotta oppose yo!

In a matter such as this one it is usually best to just not get involved and bring new air to the ashes so to speak. That said I shall offer my opinion on the matter. But rather then spend a lot of time constructing an essay sized response I'll stick to some specific points on the matter.

1) The usage of words such as 'retarded' as a means for emphasis.

Ok so this one is the easiest one to tackle. Due to the way in which contemporary society has developed people need to be more mindful when using specific terms for emphasis which can be misconstrued as a strike against a specific groups. Regardless of whether they relate to ethnic, cultural, political, LGBT or people with either mental or physical disabilities; tact needs to be used when using such terms. However...

2) This situation could have also be handled in a much more discrete manner.

While Ben Huber was well within his rights to call out JonTron on his usage of the word retarded, he did it in the most public way imaginable when a PM could've been much more direct and discrete. Letting the individual know that he had made an error without putting them on a spot. It's possible that this was unintentional but Huber did put Jon on the spot in this situation, which certainly would not have helped in preventing this situation from blowing out of proportion.

3) Tumblr members while well meaning do often go about the wrong way of tackling such issues, and have turned an inclusive community into an exclusive one.

Tumblr has often received a lot of mixed reactions over this issue, and while I believe that this an issue that only applies to a vocal minority of users on said site, there is no doubt that there is a small community of people on Tumblr primed to react strongly to situations such as this one. There is a reason why many people are both equally respect and afraid of Tumblr. On one hand yes there are some people on the site who genuinely wish to promote certain ideas and make the world a more inclusive place, and said users have my respect. But on the otherhand there are also users who use identity as a form of elitism and will attack others percieved part of the problem. Nevertheless a reaction from Tumblr in some form was inevitable.

4) Using an extreme example for validating your argument.

Once again tact is key. While I can sort of understand JonTrons point that some people will often make a stink over seemingly trivial issues, while ignoring a seemingly bigger problem. Using the example of Gaza to validate his use of the term retarded, on the basis that it was trivial in comparison, was not warranted. Yes what is going on over there is truly horrible, but using that to legitimise ignorance is not cool. Furthermore when using the term trivial, he only thought of matters that he himself viewed to be trivial and failed to consider that the use of the term of 'retarded' was equally as trivial to others, and that may have offended him. He tried to dance around the issue and it back fired.

TL:DR

Solution -> Think before you post. Just because you believe something is trivial does not mean that everyone else views it the same way.

TheMigrantSoldier:
I'm just pointing out that someone politely asked him to stop and he childishly took his anger out on the reply with those defending him over the first reply in question with things along the "PC White Knights trying to censor him".

I don't understand why people are taking his response as childish anger. It comes off as a joke to me.

"I forgot you were retarded"

I think it is PC White Knights trying to police people's words. PBGamer commented on the whole thing by making fun of the term "ableist" and then people started policing him, acting as if he would be just as "bad" as Jontron if he didn't condemn it.

People are looking to be offended here. Jontron has said stuff far worse in the past, and yet just because he made a small response to one person, people are freaking out.

TheMigrantSoldier:

I also doubt the defense would have been as strong if his opposition wasn't from Tumblr.

Tumblr among other oversensitive types are the ones reacting to it. If anything, if they hadn't reacted at all, this whole thing would have been forgotten.

As for me, I would defend it regardless of who the opposition was from..

TheMigrantSoldier:
Well, he dug a hole for himself. He called something retarded and someone politely asked him to stop. Now, instead of apologizing and/or saying it wasn't directed at mentally handicapped people and letting the point stick (Frankly, I think PS Now is pretty dumb), he decided to derail his own point with childish insults.

And I also saw him and his fans use the terms "PC" and "Social censorship", as if trying to paint him as the victim and further derail the "discussion".

How dare you say his point should STICK.
I find that offensive how dare you say a point should stick. A point could branch, I find your language highly offensive and demand an apology for it.

So do you feel you should apologise to because I've been offended by a silly phrase ?
Sure I'm doing it deliberately and telling you I'm being offended for the sake of it by the phrase.
But if I hadn't told you this, would you want to apologise simply because someone felt offended by you ?

Sorry but if you feel offended by something it's up to you to take action not up to the person who offended you without the intent of doing so, to then change to make sure you're not offended ever by them.

If someone means to offend you by throwing insults then sure be offended and either insult back or ask them to change. But when the intent wasn't to offend then taking it as a personal offence suggests you have issues to work out yourself if you're being offended on some-one else's behalf.

Lovely Mixture:

TheMigrantSoldier:
I'm just pointing out that someone politely asked him to stop and he childishly took his anger out on the reply with those defending him over the first reply in question with things along the "PC White Knights trying to censor him".

I don't understand why people are taking his response as childish anger. It comes off as a joke to me.

"I forgot you were retarded"

I think it is PC White Knights trying to police people's words. PBGamer commented on the whole thing by making fun of the term "ableist" and then people started policing him, acting as if he would be just as "bad" as Jontron if he didn't condemn it.

People are looking to be offended here. Jontron has said stuff far worse in the past, and yet just because he made a small response to one person, people are freaking out.

TheMigrantSoldier:

I also doubt the defense would have been as strong if his opposition wasn't from Tumblr.

Tumblr among other oversensitive types are the ones reacting to it. If anything, if they hadn't reacted at all, this whole thing would have been forgotten.

As for me, I would defend it regardless of who the opposition was from..

Jokes are conveyed properly with body language and tone. You don't get that with online text. Calling someone who you've never met "retarded" over Twitter isn't what I'd call fun and games. It came off as venting, to me.

As with Tumblr, I haven't really seen much from them, to be honest. I've heard that they have a nasty vocal minority bu I'll just take words for words. The PC white knights you mentioned are the bogeymen I was referring to. The guy Jon insulted (from my point of view) insisted that he was just asking for it to stop and the rationale behind it. A fan's response? "PC Police!"

I agree with the sentiment that getting riled up over a mean thing said over the internet isn't the most productive use of time.

The_Kodu:
How dare you say his point should STICK.
I find that offensive how dare you say a point should stick. A point could branch, I find your language highly offensive and demand an apology for it.

You're welcome to represent my post in whatever way you feel like, I guess.

On the word itself

"Retarded" is a terrible, terrible word to use. It really is. Since using the word "offended" has now become an open invitation for everyone to disregard your argument (for some reason) I won't use it.

So if you don't care about offending anyone (in which case congrats! you are the coolest kid on the whole playground) then don't use the word retarded or retard in the colloquial sense because if you do you are a dick. Simple as that. You will come off as a dick. In the cosmic, objective sense, you will be a dick. In the fundamental arithmetic that makes up the universe, you will be recorded as a dick for now and forever. Don't do it. Do not. Don't be a dick. It accomplishes nothing.

Of course I used to use the word. Back when I was a dick. Well, more of a dick. I used it a fair bit. Then someone explained to me how harmful that word can be (just like many other words that we no longer use casually due to historical and cultural context) and I stopped using it. Many of you won't use racial, homophobic or anti-semitic slurs because you've been brainwashed by societal cues (and rightly so!) not to. However you refuse to voluntarily stop using harmful words when marginalized people explain how they are just as bad as all the other harmful words we don't use. Cool stuff, way to go.

It's traumatically hilarious to me that the word "Offensive" is actually more taboo among some of you fucks out there than words like retarded. It's ridiculous to me that there are some words I can't type here because I would likely receive a warning for it, and "retard" isn't one of them.

Most of all it's just completely baffling to me that some people, like JonTron and some people in this thread, can't see why using the experiences of a marginalized group of very real living human beings as an all-purpose slur is a bad fucking thing. I don't understand how the discussion has gone on this long. Once something akin to that sentence has been relayed to you, either stop using it or embrace the life of the gratuitously dickish dickhead because that's what you are, have fun.

On JonTron's use of Gaza

This dude is a hack, though, seriously. And I do not appreciate how the OP summarized the events in the tl;dr. As has been said, even if you use the word retard in a liberal, derogatory sense (and are thus a douche, see above) there is no need to attack someone who has a different view on the word.

Anyway, JonTron says "I have been called things I didn't even know were things". So instead of being like
"I was made aware of some problems that I might be unknowingly a part of. Oh boy a chance for me to help make some good social change without anyone being wrong or feeling bad!"
he goes for the whole
"I'm being ACCUSED of some problems that don't apply to my life, therefore they don't exist. People who don't like the use of SLURS are clearly fucking MONSTERS who should be stopped."
route.

I mean that's not even a big exaggeration. He jokes that tumblr should be declared a national emergency, and what's the context? Some people don't like his rampant ableism. Wow, what is the world coming to. [[[ HEAVY SARCASM IMPLIED ]]]

Okay so moving on. The most despicable thing he does IS where he brings up recent world tragedies to deflect from his own wrongdoing. First off, he did not apologize for this. You all might think he did, because he did a good impression of someone saying sorry, but he actually claimed that "the point didn't land", subtly placing the blame on us for not grasping the intricacies of his commentary on recent events.

So that incredibly insensitive comment that he did NOT APOLOGIZE FOR, is about how we should stop wasting our time pointing out slurs and go solve the world's problems. Um. Okay Jon, why don't you stop saying slurs and focus on the real problems?

But really. The whole "focus on the real problems" argument is the chunkiest kind of word vomit. It's there to both shame the opposition for not, I dunno, solving world hunger and to make any crimes of the defendant seem dismissable. A guilt trip and a distraction at once.
I really wish this was an acceptable thing all the time, because I could just go around and slap people in the face or take their money and just reference the latest global tragedy and be absolved instantly.

Also, he fucking implied that the people who called him out for saying "retarded" don't care about these problems??? Based on what. The recent horrors in Palestine are on everyone's mind, does he think he's a saint for having glanced at a headline in the last week?

TL;DR

Using the word Retarded derogatorily doesn't mean you are a bad person. I know I just said you are like an uberdouche if you use it about five times, but really that was an exaggeration. The point is: If you apologize, if you stop saying it, if you use one of the several billion other words, slang or random syllables available to you to the same effect, then you're clearly not a dick.

But if you decide, "Nope! There's no POSSIBLE WAY that using this slur isn't the one true righteous path!" then I'm sorry. You're a dick. JonTron is, as it stands, a huge dicklord.

I'm very much one whom believe in the idea of sticks and stones.

Especially when that applies to just seeing the word, and not even being the subject of it.

Frankly, if you get offended by just seeing or hearing certain words, then, really, that's kinda odd, don't you think?

I mean, they're just sounds you know. Rarely do they have much meaning.

I don't have a problem with people using whatever words they want to describe something, there are billions of humans with functional brains and mouths, it's expected that words will come out, i can't be suprised or offended when it happens.

I don't like game streaming services for a different reason, i like in the UK and don't have the internet speed for it, not to mention i'm very sensitive to input lag and there's always going to be some with this kind of service.

The Lunatic:
Frankly, if you get offended by just seeing or hearing certain words, then, really, that's kinda odd, don't you think?

I mean, they're just sounds you know. Rarely do they have much meaning.

Incorrect. Words do not rarely have meaning. In fact, literally every single word, all of them, 100.00% of words that exist, have meaning. They all literally mean something. That is actually what words are for. To carry meaning.

Sometimes that meaning can be harmful when considered in social context and used derogatorily.

The more you know.

I don't think he did anything wrong, even in his referencing what has been going in Gaza, in fact I am glad he brought a little attention to it. Long live JonTron!

Thespian:

The Lunatic:
Frankly, if you get offended by just seeing or hearing certain words, then, really, that's kinda odd, don't you think?

I mean, they're just sounds you know. Rarely do they have much meaning.

Incorrect. Words do not rarely have meaning. In fact, literally every single word, all of them, 100.00% of words that exist, have meaning. They all literally mean something. That is actually what words are for. To carry meaning.

Sometimes that meaning can be harmful when considered in social context and used derogatorily.

The more you know.

Well, not to me then.

Words are pretty interchangeable.

If he used "Really dumb" rather than "retarded", is that not the same implication?

"Idiotic", again, does that not mean roughly the same as "Retarded"?

Why exactly is "The R Word" somehow more offensive than many other words which mean the exact same thing?

Well, I believe "mental retardation" is universally considered as a negative thing. So using "retarded" to describe something negatively would seem entirely correct, and 100 % in line with how the affliction is universally regarded.

That some people then believe that the affliction equals the group of persons suffering from it, and ever so valiantly step up to defend this personal understanding of theirs, regardless of the intent or context of the statement attacked, is really their own problem. One unworthy of much attention.

I have a close relative who has a mental disability but when people use retarded as an insult I just ignore it and move on.

So I'm just gonna do the same thing for this whole situation. Love Jontron's videos though I guess this has lowered my opinion of him slightly (not because he used the word, more that he was being a bit of an asshole to certain people).

Thespian:
On the word itself

"Retarded" is a terrible, terrible word to use. It really is. Since using the word "offended" has now become an open invitation for everyone to disregard your argument (for some reason) I won't use it.

So if you don't care about offending anyone (in which case congrats! you are the coolest kid on the whole playground) then don't use the word retarded or retard in the colloquial sense because if you do you are a dick. Simple as that. You will come off as a dick. In the cosmic, objective sense, you will be a dick. In the fundamental arithmetic that makes up the universe, you will be recorded as a dick for now and forever. Don't do it. Do not. Don't be a dick. It accomplishes nothing.

Of course I used to use the word. Back when I was a dick. Well, more of a dick. I used it a fair bit. Then someone explained to me how harmful that word can be (just like many other words that we no longer use casually due to historical and cultural context) and I stopped using it. Many of you won't use racial, homophobic or anti-semitic slurs because you've been brainwashed by societal cues (and rightly so!) not to. However you refuse to voluntarily stop using harmful words when marginalized people explain how they are just as bad as all the other harmful words we don't use. Cool stuff, way to go.

It's traumatically hilarious to me that the word "Offensive" is actually more taboo among some of you fucks out there than words like retarded. It's ridiculous to me that there are some words I can't type here because I would likely receive a warning for it, and "retard" isn't one of them.

Most of all it's just completely baffling to me that some people, like JonTron and some people in this thread, can't see why using the experiences of a marginalized group of very real living human beings as an all-purpose slur is a bad fucking thing. I don't understand how the discussion has gone on this long. Once something akin to that sentence has been relayed to you, either stop using it or embrace the life of the gratuitously dickish dickhead because that's what you are, have fun.

On JonTron's use of Gaza

This dude is a hack, though, seriously. And I do not appreciate how the OP summarized the events in the tl;dr. As has been said, even if you use the word retard in a liberal, derogatory sense (and are thus a douche, see above) there is no need to attack someone who has a different view on the word.

Anyway, JonTron says "I have been called things I didn't even know were things". So instead of being like
"I was made aware of some problems that I might be unknowingly a part of. Oh boy a chance for me to help make some good social change without anyone being wrong or feeling bad!"
he goes for the whole
"I'm being ACCUSED of some problems that don't apply to my life, therefore they don't exist. People who don't like the use of SLURS are clearly fucking MONSTERS who should be stopped."
route.

I mean that's not even a big exaggeration. He jokes that tumblr should be declared a national emergency, and what's the context? Some people don't like his rampant ableism. Wow, what is the world coming to. [[[ HEAVY SARCASM IMPLIED ]]]

Okay so moving on. The most despicable thing he does IS where he brings up recent world tragedies to deflect from his own wrongdoing. First off, he did not apologize for this. You all might think he did, because he did a good impression of someone saying sorry, but he actually claimed that "the point didn't land", subtly placing the blame on us for not grasping the intricacies of his commentary on recent events.

So that incredibly insensitive comment that he did NOT APOLOGIZE FOR, is about how we should stop wasting our time pointing out slurs and go solve the world's problems. Um. Okay Jon, why don't you stop saying slurs and focus on the real problems?

But really. The whole "focus on the real problems" argument is the chunkiest kind of word vomit. It's there to both shame the opposition for not, I dunno, solving world hunger and to make any crimes of the defendant seem dismissable. A guilt trip and a distraction at once.
I really wish this was an acceptable thing all the time, because I could just go around and slap people in the face or take their money and just reference the latest global tragedy and be absolved instantly.

Also, he fucking implied that the people who called him out for saying "retarded" don't care about these problems??? Based on what. The recent horrors in Palestine are on everyone's mind, does he think he's a saint for having glanced at a headline in the last week?

TL;DR

Using the word Retarded derogatorily doesn't mean you are a bad person. I know I just said you are like an uberdouche if you use it about five times, but really that was an exaggeration. The point is: If you apologize, if you stop saying it, if you use one of the several billion other words, slang or random syllables available to you to the same effect, then you're clearly not a dick.

But if you decide, "Nope! There's no POSSIBLE WAY that using this slur isn't the one true righteous path!" then I'm sorry. You're a dick. JonTron is, as it stands, a huge dicklord.

I never read through the forums on The Escapist because they almost always make me mad at how people are consistently so narrow minded, insensitive, mean, and petty. I don't think I've ever even commented in the forums before, but I'm making an exception because this forum caught my eye and I started reading through the entire thing and reached this post. Honestly, it is just shocking to me that so many people haven't been able to see the main missteps here that Jon made and while also failing to realize that words have power. Luckily, I reached Thespian's comment, which neatly sums up most of the reasons why Jon's response was inappropriate:

A.) Using a word that has a long history of being closely associated with a certain group of people is an awful thing to do.

B.) Claiming that "people have life worse somewhere else" isn't an argument for why people shouldn't pay attention to your social transgressions.

I would also like to add a third reason his response fell flat:

C.) Comedy is subjective, but when joking about a sensitive subject, you have to have an actual, constructed joke for you to say it was all "part of the act." Someone in the thread posted an image of Louis C. K. with a caption about comedy forcing an offended person to think. I'd like to think that most of the jokes that Louis C. K. offends people with have something behind them for offended people to think about. Responding to someone who politely informs you that a group of people might be offended by a certain word, by in turn using that word directly as an insult to that person is not a joke. Now, some people might find the sudden turn around of the word in question somehow inherently funny (I am not one of them), but then that just makes it one of the lowest, crudest, and downright meanest forms of comedy, one that directly strikes at someone whose only "crime" was saying "Hey, this word is considered offensive in many circles. Consider that if you use it in the future."

Finally, to those of you who might say that people shouldn't be mad about "retarded" because it is synonymous with stupid (I saw someone say something along those lines earlier in the thread): The word has been around for over 200 years, but was only recently resurrected in the last thirty years or so as a colloquial term for people of inferior mental capabilities. Due to the long history of the term "mental retardation," retarded became applied more and more to be used specifically as a way to single out people with mental disabilities. This continued to the point that the Special Olympics started the Spread the Word to End the Word campaign back in 2004. Why did they start the campaign? read their definition of the word:

"The R-word, retard(ed), was used in the past to describe a person with an intellectual or developmental disability. Since then, it has morphed into a slang word to mean things like "stupid" or "idiotic." Many people think it is socially acceptable to use the r-word in this way but the truth is, it hurts and dehumanizes those with an intellectual disability and their family and friends. The Spread the Word to End the Word movement was created to end the pejorative use of the R-word and promote dignity and respect for people with intellectual disabilities. Join the movement by pledging to end the r-word at r-word.org and vote this definition to the top.

Example:

Person 1: I'm so retarded; I forgot to get milk at the grocery store.

Person 2: Hey, I would appreciate it if you didn't use that word around me anymore. When you use "retarded" as a synonym for "stupid" or "idiotic," you are saying that all people with intellectual disabilities are stupid, and that's definitely not true."

Even if you don't approve of racism, appropriating racist terms kinda makes you seem racist to everyone else. Even if you don't approve of bashing someone for their sexual orientation, using the term "gay" as an insult dehumanizes people who aren't straight. And even if you would never directly harass someone who deals with mental disabilities, using the word retarded in a derogatory manner reinforces the idea that people of different mental abilities are somehow worth less than anyone else.

TL;DR

I was saddened to see how misunderstood this issue is, but glad I read through the forum and found Thespian's bit of sanity. Bottom line: Don't be a dick if for no other reason than because you probably wouldn't want someone to be a dick to you.

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