Could someone please explain to me what the hell is wrong with Nintendo?

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WeepingAngels:
Their new management seems to be, well not too good.

New?
image

There is nothing *new* about Nintendo's management. They have put forward some of those practices since their NES days... only, most people didn't care at that point, because there was barely any competition, and kids don't care about "business practices", only when people grow up they start realizing they have issues. In fact, most of the things the OT complains about can be summed up as "they had policies in place since the late 80s, and didn't feel the need to change them at this point."

To answer the original points:
1- Lets be honest, ever since the N64 days, Nintendo's lineup has been dwarfed by their competition. Nintendo was very unfriendly to third party developers since the NES days (part of it motivated for monopoly reasons, part of it to avoid the overflow of numerous and poorly produced games that were the common denominator of the console bubble in the Atari days), and when they kept those policies for years too late it, they created an environment where third party developers would prefer to support the competition instead of having to deal with Nintendo's restrictions, even at the cost of losing market share. It became such a prevalent issue that, even at the N64 days, it was established that Nintendo games (or second party games) were the only games worth playing on Nintendo systems.

2- The NES classic was always meant to be a novelty item. Sure, they seriously (and intentionally) underestimated public demand, but it was not like Nintendo would start producing minis like they were a new console. Besides, they had a service almost ready for you to buy and play those old games and a brand new console that has less than a couple months. The last thing they want is, come holiday season, to be forced to support too many systems and give the audience too many options that would distract them from their shinny new console.

3- Nintendo has the idea that sales (as in saling for cheap) negatively affect the value of their properties. To them, the mere idea of Nintendo games in a bargain bin (both literally and figuratively) is akin to an insult. That is, again, rooted on the idea of preventing the situation that drove Atari to near bankruptcy and Atari games to be nearly worthless by not overflowing the market, but they were established in the 80s (when things like online sales, ebay or Internet didn't exist) and hasn't been revised since then. That is why you rarely see sales of (new copies of) old Nintendo games in sites like amazon, or games getting discounted in their digital stores even years after release. That is also why when Nintendo released mobile games, they make it at several times the price of regular mobile games.

4- Nintendo has the idea that scarcity helps regulate the market (see point 3), so they intentionally underproduce their products. In their eyes, it is better to have people looking for the switch, people that are unable to buy them (even if they might take their money elsewhere) and people that spread the gossip of "how rare and highly valued this new toy is", than having shelves full of unsold units on display in stores.

Randomosity:
I'd argue this... While I will say that BotW is one of the best launch titles in a very long time (Super Mario World takes the cake for the best launch title imo) I will say that the Xbox One had Killer Instinct for free as a launch title. I'd consider it a must play launch title.

Other than that, yeah I'd say launch line ups tend to be pretty weak sauce.

Maybe if you're a big fan of fighting games or the previous Killer Instinct, but it's definitely a lot more niche than a new Zelda game, as exemplified by the very fact that they were able to give it away for free.

hermes:
3- Nintendo has the idea that sales (as in saling for cheap) negatively affect the value of their properties. To them, the mere idea of Nintendo games in a bargain bin (both literally and figuratively) is akin to an insult. That is, again, rooted on the idea of preventing the situation that drove Atari to near bankruptcy and Atari games to be nearly worthless by not overflowing the market, but they were established in the 80s (when things like online sales, ebay or Internet didn't exist) and hasn't been revised since then. That is why you rarely see sales of (new copies of) old Nintendo games in sites like amazon, or games getting discounted in their digital stores even years after release. That is also why when Nintendo released mobile games, they make it at several times the price of regular mobile games.

Nintendo aren't alone in this. Apple has had the exact same philosophy ever since Steve Jobs became CEO again. iPhones, iPads, Macbooks and iPods are not the kind of things you see on sale very often Tesla also have a similar policy in that Musk places a lot of weight on the idea that everyone must pay the same amount for one of their cars; the people selling them aren't allowed to negotiate and cut deals like most car dealers. You'll also see it with films from Disney, which tend to be consistently expensive on Blu-ray, even when they're years old (that includes their franchises like The Avengers and Star Wars, as well as their western releases of Ghibli films).

In terms of console pricing, I don't think Nintendo can really afford to eat a loss on consoles the way their competitors can. Sony and Microsoft have the infrastructure and expertise needed to make powerful multi-media machines (both on the hardware and software side) and then make money dealing with other companies on services for those machines. Nintendo really just have the games and the consoles, so they need them to make profits.

I think this also kind of leads to them understocking. If they figure out what they need to sell and then stock enough to meet that, they'll be safe. Having them selling out costs less than producing too much stock, and they probably figure most people will buy later anyway when they come back in stock. That said, they've still clearly improved in this regard. The Switch has outsold the Wii on opening weekend and given that they both sold out, that obviously means there was more Switch stock to go around.

Johnny Novgorod:

Saelune:

Johnny Novgorod:

Ah ah ah, what did I just say?

Nintendo isnt perfect, but they are way better than Microsoft and Sony.

And all the naysayers and doom predictors are just as obnoxious as the Nintendo super fans (which I admit I am more similar to than not).

If people want to have a proper discussion on this and Nintendo in general, best not to start with excessive panic or "end of Nintendo" BS. They could survive on Pokemon alone.

I don't believe for a second that Nintendo is "ending" anywhere near soon. What I don't understand is why the fans mention this every time criticisms are brought up against them. Here we are talking about weak launch line-ups and discontinued products and every other shitty business decision Nintendo has taken as of late, and it feels that for lack of a good response people default to "pfff whatever, they're not going anywhere". Okay... nobody said they did? "They can afford sucking for sooooo long" is not a good compliment. I'm sure they can. And they will.

I think they will at least soon be ending as a console manufacturer and will soon move over to mobile devices.

darkrage6:

Johnny Novgorod:

Saelune:
Nintendo isnt perfect, but they are way better than Microsoft and Sony.

And all the naysayers and doom predictors are just as obnoxious as the Nintendo super fans (which I admit I am more similar to than not).

If people want to have a proper discussion on this and Nintendo in general, best not to start with excessive panic or "end of Nintendo" BS. They could survive on Pokemon alone.

I don't believe for a second that Nintendo is "ending" anywhere near soon. What I don't understand is why the fans mention this every time criticisms are brought up against them. Here we are talking about weak launch line-ups and discontinued products and every other shitty business decision Nintendo has taken as of late, and it feels that for lack of a good response people default to "pfff whatever, they're not going anywhere". Okay... nobody said they did? "They can afford sucking for sooooo long" is not a good compliment. I'm sure they can. And they will.

I think they will at least soon be ending as a console manufacturer and will soon move over to mobile devices.

Yeah, the Switch feels a lot like they're testing the waters for that.

Randomosity:

C14N:

Fonejackerjon:
1) They release a underpowered overpriced console with the worst launch line up ever only one single games worth playing.
2) They discontinue the insanely popular NES classic for no reason.
3) Charge ?35 for ultra street fighter which was ?9 on xbox 360 several years ago.
4) Deliberately under stock their product the Switch.

When did this fall from grace happen and why? please someone explain how the powerhouse that produced the Snes and N64 beasts became the lame ducks they are now...please someone explain?? Do Nintendo want to actually fail because I defy anyone with half a brain to think this isn't done on purpose for some reason? It just seems they dont care anymore relying on releasing the same crap over and over and showing no signs of breathing life into their products.

The fact that there is one game worth playing at launch means it had the strongest launch lineup of any console in years. Switch has one more must-play launch game than the PS4, Xbox One, PS3 or Xbox 360.

I'd argue this... While I will say that BotW is one of the best launch titles in a very long time (Super Mario World takes the cake for the best launch title imo) I will say that the Xbox One had Killer Instinct for free as a launch title. I'd consider it a must play launch title.

Other than that, yeah I'd say launch line ups tend to be pretty weak sauce.

Also, if we are going to count "games worth playing at launch" to titles that are available in the previous generation with only marginal improvements, the Wii had Marvel Ultimate Alliance; the PS2 had Tekken Tag; the PS3 had Call of Duty 3; the PS4 had Battlefield 4, Black Flag, DC Universe Online, Flower and Injustice; the Wii U had Batman Arkham City and Mass Effect 3; and the XBox One had those plus Killer Instict, Ryse and Ground Zero, among many others...

C14N:

hermes:
3- Nintendo has the idea that sales (as in saling for cheap) negatively affect the value of their properties. To them, the mere idea of Nintendo games in a bargain bin (both literally and figuratively) is akin to an insult. That is, again, rooted on the idea of preventing the situation that drove Atari to near bankruptcy and Atari games to be nearly worthless by not overflowing the market, but they were established in the 80s (when things like online sales, ebay or Internet didn't exist) and hasn't been revised since then. That is why you rarely see sales of (new copies of) old Nintendo games in sites like amazon, or games getting discounted in their digital stores even years after release. That is also why when Nintendo released mobile games, they make it at several times the price of regular mobile games.

Nintendo aren't alone in this. Apple has had the exact same philosophy ever since Steve Jobs became CEO again. iPhones, iPads, Macbooks and iPods are not the kind of things you see on sale very often Tesla also have a similar policy in that Musk places a lot of weight on the idea that everyone must pay the same amount for one of their cars; the people selling them aren't allowed to negotiate and cut deals like most car dealers. You'll also see it with films from Disney, which tend to be consistently expensive on Blu-ray, even when they're years old (that includes their franchises like The Avengers and Star Wars, as well as their western releases of Ghibli films).

In terms of console pricing, I don't think Nintendo can really afford to eat a loss on consoles the way their competitors can. Sony and Microsoft have the infrastructure and expertise needed to make powerful multi-media machines (both on the hardware and software side) and then make money dealing with other companies on services for those machines. Nintendo really just have the games and the consoles, so they need them to make profits.

I think this also kind of leads to them understocking. If they figure out what they need to sell and then stock enough to meet that, they'll be safe. Having them selling out costs less than producing too much stock, and they probably figure most people will buy later anyway when they come back in stock. That said, they've still clearly improved in this regard. The Switch has outsold the Wii on opening weekend and given that they both sold out, that obviously means there was more Switch stock to go around.

I never said they were alone, just alone among gaming hardware (and software) producers. I also found the fake scarcity of Apple products to be rather pathetic.

Also, Nintendo is on a better position to afford it than the others. While it is true they don't have the same raw capital as Microsoft, they are on par with Sony and, most importantly, are the only ones that, since a couple generations ago, were not producing their consoles at a lost. Unlike the competition, every console they sold is a net gain.

Breath of the Wild's critical and commercial success invalidates every argument against the Switch's existence.

What did the PS4 have at launch again? KNACK!!!! THE GREATEST GAM EVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

(The PS4s awesome now, I'm just saying that launch lineups mean basically nothing)

Cold Shiny:
Breath of the Wild's critical and commercial success invalidates every argument against the Switch's existence.

What did the PS4 have at launch again? KNACK!!!! THE GREATEST GAM EVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

(The PS4s awesome now, I'm just saying that launch lineups mean basically nothing)

It also had Killzone Shadows Fall.

Not the best game (not even the best in the series) but it did show what the PS4 was capable off. Well, until Horizon: Zero Dawn one upped that by the same developers.

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:
I'm not entirely sure the "Sony and Microsoft's systems had shitty launch lineups as well" argument really works outside of comparing the two. Both Sony and Microsoft have the support of nearly every other AAA publisher out there, even if the launch line up is week consumers at least know they just have to wait for the next big release from EA/Ubisoft/WB/whatever or whatever indie stuff gets on those consoles.
I just feel that a weak line up of Nintendo games has a little more impact when that's what mostly supports their system.

You can count on the Switch to have tons of exclusives that no competitor will have.

Why get a PS4 when you have an Xbox One? Why get an Xbox One when you have a PS4? And for you PC elitists, Why buy a console when its better on PC?! (Not my own view)

But Nintendo games? Only on Nintendo...outside of these mobile games that just make you want to play the real versions.

I don't really see how that disproves my point...
Microsoft and Sony's launch titles matter when comparing those too consoles against each other, but that's a different ball park then comparing those consoles line ups against Nintendo. Nintendo consoles thrive on their exclusives, and if that lineup isn't strong you'd think that'd reflect on the console.
I've said before, but if Nintendo somewhat played ball with third party developers they'd have the strongest lineup of all, their own titles and whatever products the other AAA's develop.
If all Sony and Microsoft could offer is "Uh, I guess we have Uncharted or Halo" it'd put them in a weaker position.

TrulyBritish:

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:
I'm not entirely sure the "Sony and Microsoft's systems had shitty launch lineups as well" argument really works outside of comparing the two. Both Sony and Microsoft have the support of nearly every other AAA publisher out there, even if the launch line up is week consumers at least know they just have to wait for the next big release from EA/Ubisoft/WB/whatever or whatever indie stuff gets on those consoles.
I just feel that a weak line up of Nintendo games has a little more impact when that's what mostly supports their system.

You can count on the Switch to have tons of exclusives that no competitor will have.

Why get a PS4 when you have an Xbox One? Why get an Xbox One when you have a PS4? And for you PC elitists, Why buy a console when its better on PC?! (Not my own view)

But Nintendo games? Only on Nintendo...outside of these mobile games that just make you want to play the real versions.

I don't really see how that disproves my point...
Microsoft and Sony's launch titles matter when comparing those too consoles against each other, but that's a different ball park then comparing those consoles line ups against Nintendo. Nintendo consoles thrive on their exclusives, and if that lineup isn't strong you'd think that'd reflect on the console.
I've said before, but if Nintendo somewhat played ball with third party developers they'd have the strongest lineup of all, their own titles and whatever products the other AAA's develop.
If all Sony and Microsoft could offer is "Uh, I guess we have Uncharted or Halo" it'd put them in a weaker position.

A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

hermes:

WeepingAngels:
Their new management seems to be, well not too good.

New?
image

There is nothing *new* about Nintendo's management.

New as in not Satoru Iwata. They literally have a new CEO. Unfortunately, this one isnt a game developer.

Saelune:
A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

TrulyBritish:

Saelune:
A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:

Saelune:
A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Hmm, well, agree to disagree and all that.

I don't understand people saying 'Switch has Breath of the Wild and that's a great launch title'. Well, Super Mario World wouldn't have sold near as many SNES's if it could also be played, nearly identical on the NES. What if Super Mario 64 could be played just as well on the SNES, would it still have been a great N64 launch title? If your best launch title isn't even an exclusive, that's not good. IMO.

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:

Saelune:
A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Saelune:

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:
The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:

TrulyBritish:

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

I always thought people would come around to appreciate the Gamepad but since the Switch has launched, the Gamepad bashing has become even worse. It's almost as if people don't want a tablet controller. Oh wait...

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:

BaldursGateTemple:

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

What is your definition of "failed"? Cause the Wii was a major success. The Wii U was not Wii levels success, but its not the bomb people make it out to be, and it was a solid system. And virtual boy huh? You mean that thing Nintendo was trying to do 20 years before everyone else?

The motion controls on Starfox Zero were fine. People just threw a fit cause of change, that thing that people criticize Nintendo for -not- doing. Damned if they do, right?

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:

BaldursGateTemple:

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

Motion controls failed? If only they showed up on the 3DS, Vita, Gamepad, Kinect, Move, PS4 Controller and the Switch has them too. No doubt I am leaving out many devices but I think I made my point. Motion controls have not failed.

Gamepad sadly failed to catch on and wish it had caught on. Since the DS, I have come to really enjoy the second screen. I can't speak about Virtual Boy, I know nothing about it at all.

The thing with the Kid Icarus game on the 3DS, the Starfox game on the Wii U and even Skyward Sword show the incompetent side of Nintendo that feels they need to force mediocre/bad controls on us to prove that their gimmick is great. It's only great when it is, not when many people can't even play it properly.

WeepingAngels:

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:
You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

Motion controls failed? If only they showed up on the 3DS, Vita, Gamepad, Kinect, Move, PS4 Controller and the Switch has them too. No doubt I am leaving out many devices but I think I made my point. Motion controls have not failed.

Gamepad sadly failed to catch on and wish it had caught on. Since the DS, I have come to really enjoy the second screen. I can't speak about Virtual Boy, I know nothing about it at all.

The thing with the Kid Icarus game on the 3DS, the Starfox game on the Wii U and even Skyward Sword show the incompetent side of Nintendo that feels they need to force mediocre/bad controls on us to prove that their gimmick is great. It's only great when it is not when many people can't even play it properly.

Hardly any games are being made, if any, are being used with move, hardly anyone uses the kinect. The Switch I'm not sure about. They haven't replaced and nor will ever replace conventional controls.

Saelune:

BaldursGateTemple:

Saelune:
You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

What is your definition of "failed"? Cause the Wii was a major success. The Wii U was not Wii levels success, but its not the bomb people make it out to be, and it was a solid system. And virtual boy huh? You mean that thing Nintendo was trying to do 20 years before everyone else?

The motion controls on Starfox Zero were fine. People just threw a fit cause of change, that thing that people criticize Nintendo for -not- doing. Damned if they do, right?

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

If the majority of people didn't like Starfox Zero then their creativity didn't exactly pay off. You have your own opinion on it and that's fine, but looking through a cock pit and having to look up at the TV screen back and forth does and will kill many people's enjoyment of the game. That isn't great design and their creativity didn't pay off in that aspect.

The Switch will end up becoming the Wii U version 2. It's hyped right now, but as time goes on third parties will abandon the system and the same thing that's happened for the past 4 generations will happen with Nintendo. Third place, like always. Their creativity doesn't do too much for them. They should just stick to their hand held devices and Pokemans.

BaldursGateTemple:

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

Something does not have to create a market sustained for multiple generations in order to be a success, and something is not a "freak accident" if it comes about as a direct result of people making the express decision to buy their product.

BaldursGateTemple:

WeepingAngels:

BaldursGateTemple:

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

Motion controls failed? If only they showed up on the 3DS, Vita, Gamepad, Kinect, Move, PS4 Controller and the Switch has them too. No doubt I am leaving out many devices but I think I made my point. Motion controls have not failed.

Gamepad sadly failed to catch on and wish it had caught on. Since the DS, I have come to really enjoy the second screen. I can't speak about Virtual Boy, I know nothing about it at all.

The thing with the Kid Icarus game on the 3DS, the Starfox game on the Wii U and even Skyward Sword show the incompetent side of Nintendo that feels they need to force mediocre/bad controls on us to prove that their gimmick is great. It's only great when it is not when many people can't even play it properly.

Hardly any games are being made, if any, are being used with move, hardly anyone uses the kinect. The Switch I'm not sure about. They haven't replaced and nor will ever replace conventional controls.

Motion controls don't need to replace traditional controls to not have failed. Also, maybe very few games are being made that focus on motion controls but most devices have them available and that tells me that they haven't yet failed. In fact, motion controls are at their best being used in a support role like aiming in Zelda games.

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

Wii Sports sold the Wii. Motion controls sold the Wii. It wasn't a freak accident, it was real people playing it at in store kiosks or at a friends house and enjoying it. Sadly, Wii Sports was about the best game for the casual crowd.

The Switch will end up becoming the Wii U version 2. It's hyped right now, but as time goes on third parties will abandon the system and the same thing that's happened for the past 4 generations will happen with Nintendo. Third place, like always. Their creativity doesn't do too much for them. They should just stick to their hand held devices and Pokemans.

The Switch is a handheld device. Everyone keeps telling me how the Switch is awesome primarily because they can play Zelda and Mario Kart on the go so in the minds of many Nintendo fans, the Switch only real value is that it's portable. Nevermind that most of those people will never take it out of their house, they could have done that with the Gamepad (and I do). Interestingly, it seems like many were unsatisfied with the last Pokemon games and I am not too confident in Game Freaks ability to make an HD Pokemon game.

Silvanus:

BaldursGateTemple:

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

Something does not have to create a market sustained for multiple generations in order to be a success, and something is not a "freak accident" if it comes about as a direct result of people making the express decision to buy their product.

You're pretty much wrong, friend.

WeepingAngels:

BaldursGateTemple:

WeepingAngels:

Motion controls failed? If only they showed up on the 3DS, Vita, Gamepad, Kinect, Move, PS4 Controller and the Switch has them too. No doubt I am leaving out many devices but I think I made my point. Motion controls have not failed.

Gamepad sadly failed to catch on and wish it had caught on. Since the DS, I have come to really enjoy the second screen. I can't speak about Virtual Boy, I know nothing about it at all.

The thing with the Kid Icarus game on the 3DS, the Starfox game on the Wii U and even Skyward Sword show the incompetent side of Nintendo that feels they need to force mediocre/bad controls on us to prove that their gimmick is great. It's only great when it is not when many people can't even play it properly.

Hardly any games are being made, if any, are being used with move, hardly anyone uses the kinect. The Switch I'm not sure about. They haven't replaced and nor will ever replace conventional controls.

Motion controls don't need to replace traditional controls to not have failed. Also, maybe very few games are being made that focus on motion controls but most devices have them available and that tells me that they haven't yet failed. In fact, motion controls are at their best being used in a support role like aiming in Zelda games.

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

Wii Sports sold the Wii. Motion controls sold the Wii. It wasn't a freak accident, it was real people playing it at in store kiosks or at a friends house and enjoying it. Sadly, Wii Sports was about the best game for the casual crowd.

The Switch will end up becoming the Wii U version 2. It's hyped right now, but as time goes on third parties will abandon the system and the same thing that's happened for the past 4 generations will happen with Nintendo. Third place, like always. Their creativity doesn't do too much for them. They should just stick to their hand held devices and Pokemans.

The Switch is a handheld device. Everyone keeps telling me how the Switch is awesome primarily because they can play Zelda and Mario Kart on the go so in the minds of many Nintendo fans, the Switch only real value is that it's portable. Nevermind that most of those people will never take it out of their house, they could have done that with the Gamepad (and I do). Interestingly, it seems like many were unsatisfied with the last Pokemon games and I am not too confident in Game Freaks ability to make an HD Pokemon game.

Once again, it was at a time when it was brand new and the casual market was taken by the mobile phone market yet. After mobile phone gaming hit the scene they dropped the big N like a bad habit. So yes, if the Wii wasn't a freak accident then the Wii-U would've done very well.

And how many people dropped Wii Sports after they realized it was nothing but a gimmick. I honestly don't see motion controls being used that often. It was suppose to be the standard for the Wii, but most people hated it and now it's either secondary or not even used hardly at all. Nintendrones will be Nintendrones I suppose.

The Switch is on it's hype train at the moment. The Wii U sold similarly in its first month as well. Third parties will drop the Switch and it will more than likely end up the same as the Wii U, or nearly the same more than likely. I doubt I'll be wrong.

BaldursGateTemple:

The Switch is on it's hype train at the moment. The Wii U sold similarly in its first month as well. Third parties will drop the Switch and it will more than likely end up the same as the Wii U, or nearly the same more than likely. I doubt I'll be wrong.

Actually the Wii U's numbers were about half the Switch's current sales. Like I said elsewhere, it seems these kinds of threads pop up after A) Nintendo has a Direct (which they did recently) or B) has a hot release coming up (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which is coming out next week and is adding another GOTY 2017 candidate to Nintendo's roster). I am not sorry that Nintendo is the least drama-ridden, most competently run company in an industry going through its awkward puberty and that the Switch is the hot item at the moment.

BaldursGateTemple:

You're pretty much wrong, friend.

A compelling argument-- I particularly enjoyed perusing the bibliography-- but I'm not quite convinced.

A product selling well is the direct result of people making the decision to buy that product. If those sales were not sustained over a long period, then you can make a case that that success was fleeting, or that the business model doesn't work over multiple generations for some reason. But it is, quite clearly, not an "accident", because Nintendo did not trip and accidentally design those motion controllers, and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

Aiddon:

BaldursGateTemple:

The Switch is on it's hype train at the moment. The Wii U sold similarly in its first month as well. Third parties will drop the Switch and it will more than likely end up the same as the Wii U, or nearly the same more than likely. I doubt I'll be wrong.

Actually the Wii U's numbers were about half the Switch's current sales. Like I said elsewhere, it seems these kinds of threads pop up after A) Nintendo has a Direct (which they did recently) or B) has a hot release coming up (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which is coming out next week and is adding another GOTY 2017 candidate to Nintendo's roster). I am not sorry that Nintendo is the least drama-ridden, most competently run company in an industry going through its awkward puberty and that the Switch is the hot item at the moment.

When Nintendo has a direct or has a big game coming people talk about Nintendo, no big shock there and some people may not be as positive as those on the juvenile hype train. We don't know if Switch will keep this momentum because the truth is that the lineup isn't all that great and it may be that those who bought one already are most of the people who ever will. How many new people will buy it for Mario or do those people already have one? Third party support has been teased so often on Nintendo consoles that we can't be sure until the games actually release. You know you'll get your promised first party games though, right? Even if they are pushed to the next console as well.

Silvanus:
and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

I can see someone explaining that to their wife. 'Honey, I didn't realize I had this until I got home and was unloading the groceries. I even put it in the deep freeze at first until I realized what it was. Anyway, water under the bridge, want to play Wii Sports?'

-watches the nintendo defense force rear up- Well, I'm just gonna... tip-toe around that particular shitstorm.

It's weird with Nintendo because it's just... on one hand, they always feel immensely arrogant with a lot of their business decisions, a kind of old-school arrogance born from being around since the fucking 1800s and being the company that pulled gaming back from the last crash; and yet, on the other hand, they feel like they're fucking terrified of taking risks, and have a weird tendency to play cards the rest of the industry already dealt five years ago as a result. With the former, you get shit like short-stocking their games/Amiibos, refusal to lower price on old games (Smash Bros for the Wii is still like, 100 bucks in Australia), charging high prices for 30-year old NES games and general 'go fuck yourself' attitude to handling their fans, but with the latter you get things like the slap-dash panic of shutting down the Wii U and rushing out of the Switch (I like the Switch but fuck me, was it rushed out), as well as introducing a shitty paid-for online subscription because 'everyone else is doing it'.

It gets frustrating because man, I love Nintendo consoles and games, been playing them for the last 25 years but fuck me does Nintendo not give a fuck about me.

WeepingAngels:

Silvanus:
and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

I can see someone explaining that to their wife. 'Honey, I didn't realize I had this until I got home and was unloading the groceries. I even put it in the deep freeze at first until I realized what it was. Anyway, water under the bridge, want to play Wii Sports?'

You kid, but that's basically what happened in my house - there's 5 Wii consoles in the building but we only remember buying 2 of them. The others just kind of... accrued. Like we'd just come home from shopping and 'hey, is that another Wii? When? Where? Why? Ah well just put it in the kitchen I can play some Xenoblade while I'm making Spaghetti'.

Wrex Brogan:
-watches the nintendo defense force rear up- Well, I'm just gonna... tip-toe around that particular shitstorm.

It's weird with Nintendo because it's just... on one hand, they always feel immensely arrogant with a lot of their business decisions, a kind of old-school arrogance born from being around since the fucking 1800s and being the company that pulled gaming back from the last crash; and yet, on the other hand, they feel like they're fucking terrified of taking risks, and have a weird tendency to play cards the rest of the industry already dealt five years ago as a result. With the former, you get shit like short-stocking their games/Amiibos, refusal to lower price on old games (Smash Bros for the Wii is still like, 100 bucks in Australia), charging high prices for 30-year old NES games and general 'go fuck yourself' attitude to handling their fans, but with the latter you get things like the slap-dash panic of shutting down the Wii U and rushing out of the Switch (I like the Switch but fuck me, was it rushed out), as well as introducing a shitty paid-for online subscription because 'everyone else is doing it'.

It gets frustrating because man, I love Nintendo consoles and games, been playing them for the last 25 years but fuck me does Nintendo not give a fuck about me.

Good post. It's true that for all the fans who defend Nintendo, Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about it's fans. I accepted that Nintendo didn't expect the Wii to take off and that why there were supply issues but they have done that over and over again since the Wii and now I think they do it because they don't want to take a risk and manufacture too many. I remember the Wii U being sold out everywhere right after launch too. I have a bad taste in my mouth about how they dropped the Wii U and how they don't want to give current Mario Kart 8 owners a discount on the Switch port and also how they won't patch the battle mode for Wii U version. Nintendo used to be known for quality hardware (Nintendium) but I guess that's all changed now too.

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