No Right Answer: Best Animation Style Ever

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I'm surprised Dan didn't get another point at the end there when talking about how eastern animation does deal with some very adult issues sometimes, and I don't mean just sex.

Good episode, guys.

Dan, one word: Baccano!

Where the hell did Dan's first point come from? All he said was he watched Akira, and it turned out his description fitted Akira. That's hardly reinforcing his point that ALL anime have that plot.

Also I think his analogy at the end about Arabs and terrorists could be interpreted in an offensive way.

You'll try anime that're suggested with an open mind huh? Very well then, I put forth Welcome to the NHK, a personal favorite, onto the chopping block. It's a very good commentary on the negative sides of being a geek as well as being a nice character study of people crazy enough to attempt suicide or stay in their homes for four years straight.

I would also like to recommend Bartender. Essentially, a nice mature series of stories (Count of Monte Cristo mature, not South Park mature) about real people and their real problems (much better than it initially sounds).

Even though I love my anime, and can't get enough of it. The west has My Little Pony: Friendship is magic...That's kind of hard to top. Even though I'm willing to admit that it's used as a marketing tool to make us buy there toys, it's still a good show.
Also I think you should try out Neon Genesis Evangelion. Either the season or movies, though the movies try to mash a lot of the story into one small hour space, it's still good.
And if you have the time, My favorites include Chaos;Head, Higurashi no naku koro ni, Gantz, and Elfen Laid.

Wow, you can almost hear the elitists coming out of the woodwork.

I've always wondered; does Anime mean any animation from Japan, or does it mean a style of animation that originated in Japan?

Because were it the former, a Japanese animator could create a Western-style animation and call it Anime.
And conversely, were it the latter a Westerner could use the "Japanese" style of animation and call it Anime.

minuialear:

canadamus_prime:
The big "rain drop" as you call it is supposed to be a sweat drop and it usually signifies exasperation. You'd have to be an idiot not to be able to figure that out, esp. considering when it appears the character usually has an exasperated and/or annoyed expression on their face to go with it.

Imma just say:

He could also be referring to the Eva-like devices girls wear on their heads sometimes in mecha/sci-fi shows, or the similarly-shaped hair clips girls sometimes wear that are of ridiculous size.

Plus, assuming he is referring specifically to sweatdrops: considering sweatdrops are pretty isolated to anime, someone wouldn't necessarily be an "idiot" if they saw it once or twice and didn't get what it was, exactly. It's lot like real people have massive perspiration fits whenever they're annoyed (well, most of us don't). It's something you learn the significance of as you become more acclimated to the style.

And even if it wasn't, it doesn't help anyone to act so pompous just because someone didn't get a trope from a niche art style that you know more about.

Forgive me for coming across as pompous, but it just seemed extremely obvious. I mean surely even if one is not familiar with that style, it shouldn't be hard to figure out what the sweat drop is supposed to signify given the facial expression of the character at the time. And depending on the tone of the show in question, it should also be rather apparent that it's meant to exaggerate the emotion being expressed. It's the same as when characters cry geysers (or waterfalls, or even bubbles in some cases [don't understand that one}), it's exaggerated for comedic effect.

Dan, if you want to see the best anime has to offer, then do as Chris suggested, watch Hayao Miyazaki. Castle in the Sky and Spirited Away are my recommendations....... yes you are going to have the ridiculous fan service anime too, but western animation had to deal with stripperella and Drawn Together, so yeah, there is going to be tasteless crass shows on either side. and as far as your Pixar argument, goes..... The guy in charge of that studio loves Miyazaki's work so much, that on the aforementioned films he has put a personalized message just before the movie plays if you get the dubbed DVDs. So if your primary argument for western animation loves Miyazaki's eastern animation then you owe Miyazaki's Studio Ghibli a shot.

Extragorey:
I've always wondered; does Anime mean any animation from Japan, or does it mean a style of animation that originated in Japan? (and thus Westerners could, for example, use the same style of animation and call it Anime)

There was this show called Avatar: The Last Airbender. Over it's three year run ( and to some extent still today) this issue was ferociously debated. The show is done in an anime style, and yet a couple of white Americans made it (btw to my earlier post about Miyazaki, Appa was based on the catbus, which is friggin awesome) In the end no ones mind was really changed, some say you can be a westerner and make anime others claim that if you are not Japanese you are SOL.

Here's a list of Anime that suck yet people will tell you it's the best thing ever:

Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Bleach
Naruto
Steins;Gate (This one I might concede, but I'm 4 episodes in and it sucks so far)
Dragon Ball, Z, GT

Anime that I actually think is worthwhile:

Angel Beats
Paranoia Agent
Paprika
Princess Mononoke
Fullmetal Alchemist
Code Geass
Spirited Away
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time

I just thought of the ultimate west vs east animation question.......

Catbus vs Magic School Bus........ which is cooler?

I don't think I have an answer.

Huh. Somehow I was expecting the team to come down on anime's side today, but I think this was a legit debate.

Also, one needs to note that a bunch of the 'western' animation gets done in the east. Venture Brothers, last I checked, is made in Korea. And is awesome. Anyway: I'm with Dan. I have seen way more anime that makes me want to throw a brick at the tv than any other kind. It's not all bad, but there is an incredible amount of samey stuff out there. Western animation seems, at least from my experiences of it, to have much more variation.

Kitsuna10060:
@Dan: Elfen Lied, partly cause its good, partly cause there's non of the sweat drops and such you hate, and partly cause its short clocking in at 13 eps or so.

I'll admit that it's a good series, but American's First Anime it is not, what with... Well, the entire damn thing. Honestly if he's gonna go with something violent, I'd be more likely to suggest Afro Samurai, although that's almost cheating, considering the heavy Western influences.

Firefilm:

Congratulations, Soviet Heavy, you won this week's secret contest. For standing up against the hate and reminding them that this is a comedy show, and for pointing out that I had a disclaimer at the end. Your prize is an extra week of life. When you are in your 80's, you can thank us!

You kind of had to see the hate coming. The only fan base more rabid than that of the anime clan is that of the Nintendo clan. Mighty will be the clashes of hate when their fandom is called into question.

It's true though. There is significantly more amount of crap anime than there is Western animation... so much so that I can't honestly say if there's any anime I've enjoyed in the past two or three years. But that may be because I grew out of their young male target audience.

Wolf's Rain is worth a look though. Weird premise, but beautifully told. It's about a pack of stray wolves coming together to find paradise at the end of the world. It gets weirder from there, but the emotional punch it has is impressive. And it has a rocking intro.

If you're looking for the best example of 'the hero's quest', look no further than Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagaan. One of the weirdest shows you will watch, but the scale alone will blow you away. It literally starts off in a cramped tunnel, and ramps up in tension and drama to far beyond your imagination. Might be a little too bizarre in terms of style for you to get into though. But that was probably the last anime to give me shivers.

And.. er... can I get an extra week of life too? I don't really want it, but just imagine what that'll sell for on ebay.

IT's actually tough recommending something to somebody who isn't interested in the genre. Cowboy Bebop is really the best recommendation I can think of. It's narrative style isn't grounded in strictly eastern sensibilities so it's easy to watch for a first timer. On top of that, Cowboy Bebop the cream of the crop in terms of visual quality and style aswell as soundtrack, script and editting.

So, yeah. Cowboy Bebop is definitely the best suggestion. A close second for me would be Monster, a classic and very accessible for western viewers.

Once you were actually more immersed in the genre, I would recommend FLCL. FLCL is practically the Star Wars of anime. It's a flawless 6 episode masterpiece that captures one of the most groundshaking stories in history.

Anime used to be good, you know, when it was actually well animated.

When we still had people like Katsuhiro Otomo, Koji Morimoto, and Yoshiaki Kawajiri. Seriously, what the fuck are these guys doing? Now Satoshi Kon is dead and Hayao Miyazaki is getting too old to work the way he used to.

But in all honesty, both Western and Japanese (traditional) animation suck now thanks to the digital age.

Really Internets? You recommended Trigun and Cowboy Bebob to Dan? *Face Palm* There is nothing wrong with those anime in terms of story, characters and "progression". BUT Cowboy Bebob and Trigun are both hard to follow unless you already loved anime.

Dan is looking for interesting anime that does not follow closely to the anime cliche.

I recommend 2 first.

Golden Boy and Great Teacher Onizuka (aka GTO) in English Sub.

These are pretty early anime that were dubbed poorly when they reached US soil like speed racer. Golden Boy is a per episode story like the Simpsons, but great stories. GTO is a great progression anime that gives you the idea of what to expect at 2 episodes.

"If" Dan got any interest in anime after those 2, THAN I would recommend Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. English is good, but English Subs are better. This is an anime with the Robot Trope, but those robots take back seat to the characters.

p.s. Can anyone else name anime that don't fall under the cliche of being long, conviluted, or difficult to get into unless you already love anime?

So another spirited debate. Really like this show. Nice to see Dan again. What about a Kyle vs Dan showdown? Incidentally, was someone going to cosplay Fred Flintstone shortly after filming? :)What was going on with Chris' shirt(s)?

I'd also suggest the anime Gungrave, especially if you end up liking Trigun. It has less of the comedy as Trigun, but it's just as interesting and deep.

Arif_Sohaib:
I am surprized that no one mentioned Avatar The Last Airbender, the perfect blend of East and West in animation and much better version of the Harry Potter concept.

I was going to bring that up too (*points to avatar*). It's really a testament to why both styles of animation are valid, since it takes the best of both and combines them seamlessly into a whole that is better than the sum of its parts.

Negatempest:
Really Internets? You recommended Trigun and Cowboy Bebob to Dan? *Face Palm* There is nothing wrong with those anime in terms of story, characters and "progression". BUT Cowboy Bebob and Trigun are both hard to follow unless you already loved anime.

Dan is looking for interesting anime that does not follow closely to the anime cliche.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop is actually quite easy to follow. There is a big arc for the whole series (Spike's past, Vicious, etc), but most of it is really surprisingly episodic. For every episode not directly related to the over-arching plot, the only thing you need to know is that they're bounty hunters; for the episodes that ARE related to the main plot, they really aren't that hard to follow.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop does fulfill that requirement. I see no reason it should not be used as an introductory anime.

Casual Shinji:
Anime used to be good, you know, when it was actually well animated.

When we still had people like Katsuhiro Otomo, Koji Morimoto, and Yoshiaki Kawajiri. Seriously, what the fuck are these guys doing? Now Satoshi Kon is dead and Hayao Miyazaki is getting too old to work the way he used to.

But in all honesty, both Western and Japanese (traditional) animation suck now thanks to the digital age.

I think the major problem is visual homogenization, and a lack of depth. This goes for both western and eastern animation.

Take a look at 80's and 90's anime. Look at the detailing. Sure, stuff like Berserk animated like a lethargic snail, but the detailing in the backgrounds was immense. Stuff like that just isn't made anymore.

Compare to modern anime, and you see the inverse. Everything almost feels too flat, with two tone cell shading making up the majority of visual styles.

Same goes for western. Again, Batman TAS had a visual depth, whereas shows like Adventure Time or MLP are flat flat flat.

Its clear Dan has no idea what hes talking about....hes being extremely biased.

Daystar Clarion:

GamemasterAnthony:
Suggestion: Ghost in the Shell

Both of the movies AND the "Stand Alone Complex" series.

This MAY make you change your mind about anime, Dan.

I second this.

Ghost in the Shell has very few of the tropes that are in conventional anime.

It's still has robots, but hey, it's the future, and the'ye not as ridiculous as the crap from Gundam.

True. I personally love the movies and the shows. It's one of the few 'modern' animes I can stand to watch. (For the record, I used to love anime. now I prefer western animation. primarily due to Pixar.(yes it counts))

However, Ghost in the Shell still has a fair bit of the usual anime tropes. The 'admittedly-not-quite-so-wacky' AI robots, complete with God-awful high-pitched womens voices acting goofy and child-like. The scantly clad, very large breasted women with big-hips and tiny waists. Lengthy scenes involving the characters literally sitting around, not moving, talking about something for long stretches, usually speaking in contemplative metaphors. Etc, etc.

Still, it's FAR less than most and, despite the blatant presence of some, it's still one of the better written anime stories out there. It often makes me think the writers are avid fans of Asimov.

Some people probably mention that animation style is something completely different than what was discussed and if we want to discuss that we would need to go back before the animation, and back to beginnings of both European and Japanese visual art, and it's a bigger journey.

Lots of people will argue about the development and writing and other stuff, but since it's all about cultural differences I'd say that it depends on personal taste and view of beauty and such.

The best way to do that episode was to pin point the best and the worst, I guess and Dan had it covered.

Soviet Heavy:

Casual Shinji:
Anime used to be good, you know, when it was actually well animated.

When we still had people like Katsuhiro Otomo, Koji Morimoto, and Yoshiaki Kawajiri. Seriously, what the fuck are these guys doing? Now Satoshi Kon is dead and Hayao Miyazaki is getting too old to work the way he used to.

But in all honesty, both Western and Japanese (traditional) animation suck now thanks to the digital age.

I think the major problem is visual homogenization, and a lack of depth. This goes for both western and eastern animation.

Take a look at 80's and 90's anime. Look at the detailing. Sure, stuff like Berserk animated like a lethargic snail, but the detailing in the backgrounds was immense. Stuff like that just isn't made anymore.

Compare to modern anime, and you see the inverse. Everything almost feels too flat, with two tone cell shading making up the majority of visual styles.

Same goes for western. Again, Batman TAS had a visual depth, whereas shows like Adventure Time or MLP are flat flat flat.

I've never seen the new MLP, but from what I have seen it's clearly flash animated, so no wonder it looks flat as hell.

As for the lack of depth of even current hand drawn animation, it might also have to do with the fact that it's no longer drawn on cells. Those old cartoons had a certain grit to them because they were all hand painted cells. Now, because everything is done digitally it feels way too clean and seems to lack texture.
This is why shows today with a very limited budget appear so flat and sterile as opposed to shows with similar budgets from 20 years ago.

To take your example of Berserk; I saw the first 10 minutes of the new Berserk movie and was appalled by how clean, sterile, and lifeless it looked thanks to all the digimation. I was never a fan of the original anime series, but at least that breathed some of the atmosphere of a gothic dark fantasy, not a cutscene from Valkyria Chronicles.

I don't know if I'll really add more to this than has already been said, but seeing as I'm an American who was raised on Western Animation and now support Eastern Animation more, I feel as if I have something to say on this.

I was happy to see two things listed previously in this thread, Perfect Blue and Ghost in the Shell. While I'm sure most people are at least fundamentally aware of Ghost, it's up in the air how many people know anything about Perfect Blue. (If you're not, please check it out on Wikipedia)

The main problem to start with this debate is that you're in short comparing a deeper cultural divide than you'd think. First, we have to acknowledge that the level of target for Western Animation is vastly different due to greater cultural handicaps than that of Japan. When Princess Mononoke was being released in the States, there was a bit of controversy as to whether or not it was proper for Disney to hold the rights to it due to the violence level in the movie. This is part of the base cultural divide between the East and the West. While there is some "innocence" to children in Asia, the driving force of Eastern Animation comes from Japan where the "sheltering" of children isn't as deep as it is here in the States at least.

What this really drives at is why Western Animation as a whole seems to constantly yield similar titles. As commented in the video, Disney is primarily known for Princess movies. Even looking back on my childhood, the only movies I felt really stood out or captured my imagination weren't from Disney because I was a boy. Instead, I remember fondly things like An American Tale : Fievel Goes West, The Secret of Nimh, and Titan AE (though released in my teens.) At best, for relation to myself, Disney had The Sword in the Stone and television shows such as Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers, Tail Spin, or Gummy Bears. But looking into my teens, Western Animation seemingly lost all appeal or connection to me.

Instead, it was at this point where Eastern Animation took up the mantel starting with a friend letting me borrow Akira and Ninja Scroll. Soon afterward I got hooked on the epic feel of the space soap which was Gundam 0079 and small titles like Pet Shop of Horrors or those now obscure US Manga and Urban Vision title releases such as Psycho Diver or Twilight of the Dark Masters.

Heck, I remember Sputnik7.com when they had their license to stream US Manga titles like Wings of the Royal Space Force: The Wings of HonnĂȘamise or Mad Bull 34.

Now, I know this is me sort of droning on about my experiences, but I'm trying to establish a timeline. For most people, I assume, the connection to a certain animation style seemingly comes from the disconnection of another, and I believe that is why this topic is inherently flawed from the begging. It is reasonable to say that with what we have widely available, Western Animation is probably better for a domestic market in the West currently for the ages of 3-10 years of age. However, even at the ages of 5-8 you enter a world of Pokemon, Yugioh, Digimon, and a slew of others which have equal appeal to children. But when it comes to the teen market upwards to any adult level, Easter Animation meets what the West by and large refuses to try.

Now, most of the void in the market comes from the still long standing opinion that Animation is for children, with the exception of children movies laced with humor only the parents are supposed to understand thus allowing them to not want to drink bleach by having to sit through them with their children. It's taken over 60 years for Comic books to finally start getting real credit as a legitimate art form in more ways than one, and I assume it will still be years off for the West to fully acknowledge the potential of Animation as a true entertainment medium.

Going back to the beginning, Perfect Blue is a bold example of this line of thinking and recognition that the West has yet to fully adopt. Blue is a title which explores vanity, obsession, sexual expression, rape, murder, the effects of modern media and entertainment, and our inner psychological flaws we each do well to keep hidden from others. Now, it doesn't overly drown you in all of theses, but there is enough there to get you thinking and all done on a fair budget to bring a very powerful book to life.

I guess in the end, it isn't so much that I choose Eastern Animation to be the better of Western; It is that I choose the artistic freedoms and acceptance of the East over the West as a good fit for my personal diversity of taste when it comes to entertainment.

JoaoJatoba:
Why people suggest old animes? Beebop? Trigun? All from the last millennium. Try Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood (way better than the first release), Another (horror story), GANTZ, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0. There is sooooo much more...

Anime are more like movies than cartoon, because you have tons of "american pie" comedies, but also deeper ones like Inception. The thing is you must know which is which, and that's the hard part. The themes in eastern animations are more restricted it seems (comedy, basically).

The industry of anime in japan is not at all like cartoon industry in the US. There, they are more like Hollywood..

And newbies, stay away from the series with 500 episodes. The pace is so slow. Try smaller anime, with 13 or 26 episodes.

While I could say there is a "good" reason why they do it, it would all be opinion and conjecture.

In reality, the more likely is that Cowboy Bebop stands as one of the more heavily rated anime world wide. It is also really easy to compare it to something more familiar in the west. "Hey, did you like Firefly? Then you'll probably really enjoy this." This line of suggestion has actually worked every time for me when suggesting Bebop to someone as an intro.

You have to step back and look at what you're trying to suggest and see if it really stacks up as being "good" (by the sense of overall appeal) or "good" by the sense of it hits things that only satisfy you. Frankly, I think that Gantz is a very awful title. I think Gantz gets hurt more when you actually learn anything about the creation of the show and how directions were made. I think the rape in first two Eps is a turn off for many people. Further more, I've known people who were on the fence with Anime and felt that Giant Armor with 10 year old boy voice was "dumb." (Direct quote)

Now I'm not saying that you or anyone else is wrong or bad for liking Gantz or not easily seeing the conflict with FMA, but I am trying to point out that there is a reason on the top 100's, many of the animes you see get voted above them are there for these reasons; they have a much more broad appeal.

As a parting notion, I'll give one last example. I love Bebop, Trigun, and Outlaw Star. My best friend loves Bebop, Trigun, and HATES Outlaw star.... why? Because Outlaw start has Aliens and it just rubbed him the wrong way in the context of things. It really is the little things man.

"Which doesn't mean your favorite is bad - SHUT UP!"

How did this not get quote of the week? =(

I like some of anime's animation style, but I don't care for many of the stories much. At least the ones I've been exposed to. And I've had friends who sing their praises so much that I get annoyed by it.
I do like western style animation, except on the odd occasion when it tries to mimic anime. Sometimes it feels like some of anime's funny moments are forced in a feel "unnatural". However, I do like when it's done as a parody, since those can be funny.

Avatar Roku:

Arif_Sohaib:
I am surprized that no one mentioned Avatar The Last Airbender, the perfect blend of East and West in animation and much better version of the Harry Potter concept.

I was going to bring that up too (*points to avatar*). It's really a testament to why both styles of animation are valid, since it takes the best of both and combines them seamlessly into a whole that is better than the sum of its parts.

Negatempest:
Really Internets? You recommended Trigun and Cowboy Bebob to Dan? *Face Palm* There is nothing wrong with those anime in terms of story, characters and "progression". BUT Cowboy Bebob and Trigun are both hard to follow unless you already loved anime.

Dan is looking for interesting anime that does not follow closely to the anime cliche.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop is actually quite easy to follow. There is a big arc for the whole series (Spike's past, Vicious, etc), but most of it is really surprisingly episodic. For every episode not directly related to the over-arching plot, the only thing you need to know is that they're bounty hunters; for the episodes that ARE related to the main plot, they really aren't that hard to follow.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop does fulfill that requirement. I see no reason it should not be used as an introductory anime.

Watch the 1st episode of Cowboy Bebob again.

Nexxis:
I like some of anime's animation style, but I don't care for many of the stories much. At least the ones I've been exposed to. And I've had friends who sing their praises so much that I get annoyed by it.
I do like western style animation, except on the odd occasion when it tries to mimic anime. Sometimes it feels like some of anime's funny moments are forced in a feel "unnatural". However, I do like when it's done as a parody, since those can be funny.

If you have some interest in anime, I could point you out what anime are actually worth watching for a beginner. Kinda curious more on what was recommended to you.

There are anime that are easy to follow if you already like anime.
Then there are anime that are easy to follow if you don't have a huge interest in anime. In terms of understanding what the Director/author was trying to do without feeling let down.

Kitsuna10060:
snip

Looks like someone doesn't enjoy science fiction.

Also how can you stand Vampire Hunter D?

Negatempest:

Avatar Roku:

Arif_Sohaib:
I am surprized that no one mentioned Avatar The Last Airbender, the perfect blend of East and West in animation and much better version of the Harry Potter concept.

I was going to bring that up too (*points to avatar*). It's really a testament to why both styles of animation are valid, since it takes the best of both and combines them seamlessly into a whole that is better than the sum of its parts.

Negatempest:
Really Internets? You recommended Trigun and Cowboy Bebob to Dan? *Face Palm* There is nothing wrong with those anime in terms of story, characters and "progression". BUT Cowboy Bebob and Trigun are both hard to follow unless you already loved anime.

Dan is looking for interesting anime that does not follow closely to the anime cliche.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop is actually quite easy to follow. There is a big arc for the whole series (Spike's past, Vicious, etc), but most of it is really surprisingly episodic. For every episode not directly related to the over-arching plot, the only thing you need to know is that they're bounty hunters; for the episodes that ARE related to the main plot, they really aren't that hard to follow.

I would argue that Cowboy Bebop does fulfill that requirement. I see no reason it should not be used as an introductory anime.

Watch the 1st episode of Cowboy Bebob again.

I don't think that the fact that they don't tell us everything immediately necessarily makes it that hard to follow. I mean, it's not as if only anime does that, I think that viewers like Dan would be able piece together the essentials and wait to figure out the rest.

The problems you cited are not problems typical of anime, and so I do not think this is inherently a bad intro anime. Hell, between it's episodic nature and focus on Jazz, this may be one of the most western animes I've seen (though there are also themes, such as the whole Yakuza thing, that are VERY Japanese, so it's an interesting specimen)

So Dan won because he's only seen parts of two anime's + Akira and got a bad impression, so that's worthy of points? Most of his arguments aren't really true, only subjectively true from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

The very idea that he says "they're all the same" shows he really isn't fit to criticize anime. His stereotype doesn't even fit a large minority from what I've seen. Let's list the anime's I've seen and I'll put an X next to ones might in some vague sense fit his stereotype

Dragonball Z
Samurai Champloo
Ghost in the Shell
Full Metal Alchemist X
Naruto
Mushi-Shi
Sacred Blacksmith
Claymore X
Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom X

You could maybe argue Ghost in the Shell, but most of the bad guys lie outside the Government and the Government Section 9 agency is where the good-guys are. I think I'm being overly generous with Claymore and Phantom, as neither bad guy group is a government and the experiment itself isn't really the driving force of the plot.

Hell, Full Metal Alchemist only partly fulfills his stereotype.

I think American, or "Western" animation has some real promise. Things like Avatar are great evidence of this, but it has a lot of catching up to do. Animation has been central to the Japanese culture whereas for us, animation is only recently becoming acceptable for adults to consume. The stigma still exists that animation is simply "cartoons" and are for young kids.

I don't know about you, I wouldn't want my 6 year old seeing an entire town have their souls ripped out to form a blood red stone, or the Major blowing out some guys brain.

shameduser:

Kitsuna10060:
snip

Looks like someone doesn't enjoy science fiction.

Also how can you stand Vampire Hunter D?

well i'm not a big fan of Sci-fi but there is some i enjoy.

rather easily? its not a bad movie (the first one) least it made sense the whole way through, unlike Akira -.- I'd have suggested Outlaw Star if i didn't think it was thing kinda 'normal anime tropes' he dislikes, not that he gave us any thing to go by anyway ...

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