I wish I was a gay man...(updated on Page 4)

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I think I can explain why you have this opinion of gay relationships.
In most media, homosexuality and gay people where either potrayed as extremly sexually active with no emotional conection to their partner or as really tight and loving couples (this mostly right after tv started acknowledging us as people and not something of the devil).
But with the loving gay couples there where always a subtext because of a lack of knowledge or acceptence. The subtext where often that (especially with gay men) they where not attrackted to eachother but they fell in love for other reasons. so then it seemed like their love was stronger since it overcame their "straight-ness".

That's at least a theory.
(BTW I'm a Bi man)

I certainly hope you're joking. Gay men are men, as much as any other man. Gay men can have relationship problems, heterosexual men can have relationship problems. Gay men aren't some idealised angel descended from trashy romance novel.

lulz, methinks OP has read a bit too much yaoi.

I think that any relationship heterosexual or homosexual between any combinations of genders can be as loving as any other relationship. I think it's pretty foolish to think that if you're gay you will basically be guaranteed an amazing relationship. I know several gay people both men and women who have had 'meh' relationships that didn't work or last.

imahobbit4062:
You sound like a 17 year old girl to me, no offence, but as I read your post all I'm thinking of is a teenage girl crying "forever alone!" on her Facebook status.

That's pretty condescending, seems a little unfair, don't you think?

Well I have always wondered what it would be like to be a gay woman so maybe we could work out some kind of body swap deal !
How about it?I would be more than happy to help!

This is what we in the gay community call a fag hag! Congratulations on romanticising to the point of absurdity! Here's a biscuit!

Valis88:
but it seems to me like gay man, and gay male relationships are always so strong, and so loving. Every time you see them in movies and games they always seem so true, and so much more real thin the overplayed hetro relationships. They seem to have more of a connection, and a closeness.

No more so than any heterosexual relationship.

Gay men are people, which means some of them will have strong, loving, lifelong relationships, and others will not. Same as the rest of us.

I'm lazy, so I've not checked this, but as I recall, Male-Male civil partnerships in the UK have roughly the same rate of divorce as heterosexual marriages (I believe the rate of female-female divorce was similar as well) - If someone wants to google that motherfucker for me, then go ahead and correct me.

All relationships, whether hetero- or homosexual or CONTEXTUAL!
It is about the people involved, it doesn't matter what their orientation is.
If you genuinely believe that male homosexual relationships are juster better than all others, and you are basing this on purely second-hand experience (representation in fiction and in the media) then I'm afraid you are romanticising to the point of absurdity. I would take a step back and really evaluate the situation; not to offend, but it strikes me that you are lacking in emotional maturity.

I think you need to experience these things more. Go out and meet male gay couples. REAL gay couples. See that they are just as brilliant, troubled, passionate, loving, bitter, jealous and resentful as any other couple in the world.

Here's my experience: I've only every had 2 boyfriend, The first one was a flop because the man was genuinely ashamed of who he was. He was embarrassed to be seen in public with me so I ended it. The second was a different matter, I thought he was "the one". I gave my virginity to this guy, I thought I was in love foreve. Them one day a friend of mine sent me a picture he took of my boyfriend kissing another man. I was betrayed.

So to make a long story short, same-sex relationships can be just as messed up as hetero relationships.

my own misgivings (i think is the word i want) about my gender aside.

love has nothing to do with being gay or straight, near as i can tell, its more to do with luck then anything else

Valis88:
Snip

Some of my best friends are gay, and let me tell you something...they wade through the same shit that everyone else does. EVERY relationship (gay, straight, whatever) is going to have roadblocks and pitfalls. Please don't get the idea that gay relationships are somehow "easier" or "more loving" than straight ones. No matter what the gender of the participants, the relationship can be good as gold or an abusive hell. The trick is that the good relationships don't let the shit drag them down.

I think its more a matter of you being dissatisfied with your own state of relationships so far. If you were happy with what was going on in your own life you wouldn't be looking elsewhere for answers to help you. Its the whole "the grass is greener on the other side" issue, and everyone knows the truth of just what it is really like on the other side. In this case, you are romanticizing the relationships of gay men. Trust me, honey, the reality is just as great/awkward/painful/joyous/stressful/heart-breaking/amazing as any other relationship.

Its like sitting inside of a lonely, cold house on a hard chair by the window and looking outside at the sun and flowers and your happy neighbors and wishing that was you out there enjoying life as well. Thing is, there isn't anything really magical happening outside with your neighbors: they still fight, he still farts in bed, and the kids drive her nuts. What is different is your perception of what is going on because your cold, lonely house (you) is making you view the world differently.

It boils down to you being happy with yourself as a person and finding out why your personal relationships aren't satisfying to you. I'm going to suggest you see a counselor for those answers. While coming onto this forum may have been a first step, there is a depth of work required to get you from A to B that just isn't going to happen here.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Nothing's stopping anyone from living however they wish within the funds available to them, and the limits of law. If you want a "gay lifestyle" (...whatever that is, I'm guessing the flamboyant media stereotype here), then all that needs to be done is to live it out. Sex with people of one's own gender optional. Though surely you don't really believe that a particularly sexuality is a free ride to authentic happiness and true love?!

Otherwise, lots of Yaoi stuff to dive into. If you can't join them, read lots of fiction about them beating each other senseless through rough sexual violence which everyone enjoys in the end. That's the one and only eternal truth of another fictitious take on gay relationships, one which has as little to do with reality as have the fluffy "happily ever after"-fantasies you've apparently bought into body and soul.

I'm kind of in the same boat, I'm not one of those "I'm a man on the outside but inside I'm all woman" kind of people but I'd LOVE to be a woman, I think I would be prefer it.

I doubt that it's any better or worse than any other relationship. It's still a joining between two people, regardless of what parts they have. There's going to be conflicting opinions, problems, suspicions, all that stuff that's part of a relationship.

Other people have already covered the over-romanticising of gay relationships and the potential ways of working out if this is gender dysphoria or not, so I'll just focus on the "feeling unwomanly" parts of your post.

It doesn't have to be this way, maybe you're just not hanging out with the right people? Speaking purely from personal experience, I'm bisexual but in a long-term relationship with a man, have very "male" hobbies and (tend to) get on better with guys. I have absolutely no intention of ever having children and have never felt a "maternal instinct" in my life. I lift heavy weights in the gym and am happiest with my body when it's nice and muscular. My friends constantly make jokes about how manly I am, and how I'm more masculine than any of them (incidentally, I'm not actually all that butch despite all this. Maybe this just says more about my male friends :P ) My mum and sister are vocal about their desire for me to be more "ladylike," and my dad jokes that I have the interests of a 12 year old boy.

I am also perfectly happy being a woman, thank you very much.

You don't have to feel uncomfortable in your gender just because you don't fit its stereotype. If you're actually trans, then that's fine too of course. But either way I think you should try getting to like yourself a bit more before you do anything more.

Being a gay male doesn't warrant anything but the fact that you like are attracted to other men. It doesnt warrant more close or healthy relationships, or anything else for that matter. It just means you like men.

Oh my days. Just wait till the Escapist feminist front gets here.

You really fucked up the wording in that first post, OP.

Mr Somewhere:
I certainly hope you're joking. Gay men are men, as much as any other man. Gay men can have relationship problems, heterosexual men can have relationship problems. Gay men aren't some idealised angel descended from trashy romance novel.

Too many Bioware games and too many erotic novels give people false ideas of how relationships are and how love really pans out.

Sheesh. I sometimes wish I was a straight woman. Slut around for a couple of years, hook up with some rich guy, pop out a few babies and then enjoy retirement. Sounds so lovely.

This is new, but don't assume because a couple is gay that there love is more "pure" then others. I know many gay men and I have dated a guy myself. The only difference is the looks you'll get in the streets. Gay people have breaks ups just as much, they fall in love as any lover would and there is very little difference in the relationship other then what happens in the bedroom.

Nimcha:
Sheesh. I sometimes wish I was a straight woman. Slut around for a couple of years, hook up with some rich guy, pop out a few babies and then enjoy retirement. Sounds so lovely.

I don't think I'd toss in the babies part, but I'd definitely be a whore. I'd be so heavily into DP it would be ridiculous. I already have the sugar daddy thing arranged, so I'm good on that end.

Valis88:
Hear me out on this.

I'm a straight woman, in her mid 30's and often it feels like I've been thrown into the wrong body, and that I'm pretty much doomed to heterosexuality.

Perhaps I'm being overly nieve, perhaps I'm being overly romantic about this, but it seems to me like gay man, and gay male relationships are always so strong, and so loving. Every time you see them in movies and games they always seem so true, and so much more real thin the overplayed hetro relationships. They seem to have more of a connection, and a closeness.

It looks lie it's real 'true love'.

I have no desire to produce offspring, I don't really want to be a 'wife', and my love for male things (like games and action moves) seemed to have put me out of the running for any normal male affections, and really I often recoil at 'typical' hetro romances in books and media.

What is wrong with me? Is their something wrong with me? Are my assumptions about gay male love correct?

I just feel so itchy, and so...ugh...in the skin that I am in...i wish I could change it. I wish I could be 'better'.

Personally, I think you might be over-romancing things.
I know several gay men, and they are just like the rest of us.
Some are loving, caring like you see in some movies.

Others are backstabbing bitches like you see in other movies.
They're relations are just as varied as the "normal" heterosexual ones.
Because, in the end, the only thing that separates "us" from "The gays" is our choice in gender. For EVERY SINGLE OTHER PART gay men are just like us.

Way to stereotype gay people, gay couples have their problems too. It's not all perfect, like most couples are.

Valis88:
Perhaps I'm being overly nieve, perhaps I'm being overly romantic about this, but it seems to me like gay man, and gay male relationships are always so strong, and so loving.

This is where I'd recommend looking up the term "cruising".

Don't listen to films and games, the vast majority of them don't have a clue. You may as well be reading slash fiction. The real joy, the real advantages of an openly gay lifestyle isn't suddenly having access to a special form of love. It's being free to choose to live your life away from all the bizarre and stupid baggage which comes with heterosexuality, to decide for yourself what love means to you and precisely how to live and express it.

And you know what. As a straight person, you can do that anyway. It's not closed off to you. You just need to be brave enough to know what you want and pursue it, you might face persecution, but you'd probably face more if you were gay anyway.

In short, there's nothing which gay guys have access to which you don't, in fact there's plenty of things which you can do in life completely freely, which you could never have a chance of being accepted for if you were a gay man.

Valis88:
snip

I hope this isn't against forum rules, but I'm going to deliberately doublepost so that you get this bit in your inbox, because.. well.. take it from someone who recognizes a lot of the feelings you're going through, this is important.

I think I said this to you in a previous post, but if you feel you hate yourself and can't be happy then that's down to you, and you need to take those issues seriously and work to get through them, and the first port of call should be getting some professional help, because everyone here is just a pleb on a forum and there's only so much we can say.

Being a gay man wouldn't solve your problem (unless your problem is not getting enough casual sex). Learn to love yourself for who you are, understand that you're already equipped to seek out exactly the life you want, and just take a moment to appreciate how many miserable, desperate gay men struggling to come out of the closet right now, looking at their lives and anticipating only loneliness, misery, disease and an early death from HIV or drug addiction, would kill for the chance you have. They're wrong to feel like that, but so are you.

If something is stopping you from getting to the life you want and the relationships you want to be in, it's not as simple as just not being the right type of person. It doesn't matter what type of person you are, your life is still too precious to waste on self loathing.

Just go and see someone about it and resolve to help yourself get through these feelings. Take the first step, and know that there's a light at the end. There's no point suffering in silence and projecting a fantasy life onto other people to give yourself an excuse to feel bad. I can't promise easy. It will take time and effort and discipline, but you won't know how good things can be until you start taking steps to make them better. Don't rush yourself, don't feel guilty or mourn the time you've lost in self-loathing, just resolve to make yourself better, to stop looking for perfection and to realize that you are good enough to have a shot at happiness, because that's all anyone gets whether they're gay, straight or can only get aroused by fish

Apparently, you have the same system we do, so the best thing to do is to contact your doctor and to be honest to him or her about how you feel. It's very important that you do this as soon as possible and don't put it off. Your doctor will not laugh at you or dismiss your feelings, and they may well be able to offer you some help if it turns out you are suffering from a mood disorder, because I could be wrong, but you definitely remind me of myself at a very bad time in my life.

Good luck.

Gay relationships are good. It's only the rise of religion in Europe and the Middle East that ever said otherwise. And that was 2000 - 1500 years ago...

Before Christianity and Islam, Everybody under the sun was going at it with anybody they fucking wanted. The Greeks, Romans, Gauls, Egyptians, Persians, Mesopotamians, Chinese, Nubian's, Assyrian's you name it.

The only thing holding you back, is an idea brought about 2000 years ago. Buck that idea, because it's freaking wrong. Be who you wanna be, don't do what the media, popular opinion, or an imaginary space zombie tell you to.

Thank you everyone, I have so much to think about now, and so many things to consider.

I will seek professorial help, and also take a gard look at my life...it's probably high time that I did so.

Thank you, all of you.

Valis88:
Thank you everyone, I have so much to think about now, and so many things to consider.

I will seek professorial help, and also take a gard look at my life...it's probably high time that I did so.

Thank you, all of you.

Good luck to you. My magic 8 ball predicts a happy future for you once you do what you need to do.

Thats not a good thing. Not the wanting to be a gay man, but thinking that is the only way you can find closeness. You have to remember that love is not an easy thing to find and many people confuse infatuation for love. It can be found regardless of your sex and orientation, but you do need to work at it. There are bad relationships everywhere, regardless of what orientation they are. But love doesn't come easy, so don't give up, you can find it

It's natural enough to romanticize something that's outside of your possible experiences. At least you didn't demonize it.

But yeah, no relationship can measure up to movies and story books... hetero, homo or more complicated, writers set the emotional content bar higher than real life will ever reach.

Valis88:
I have no desire to produce offspring, I don't really want to be a 'wife', and my love for male things (like games and action moves) seemed to have put me out of the running for any normal male affections, and really I often recoil at 'typical' hetro romances in books and media.

What is wrong with me? Is their something wrong with me? Are my assumptions about gay male love correct?

Is something wrong then?

I don't really think such a thing as 'male' or 'female' activities exists. That's something that's been determined mostly culturally and maybe a select few biologically. Quite frankly not wanting to reduce yourself to being only a 'wife' and giving up all else makes sense, to be honest that sounds like a dull and horrid existance to me. I'm surprised anyone ever wants that. Pretty much all the housekeeping falls to me in our relationship but I'd never ever want that to become my sole activity, no way.

The other way around, I teach kickboxing classes. About half and maybe a little over half of the pupils are women. One of them, although mostly in someone else's class in which I train myself has been jokingly had her middle name declared to be 'fanatic', because, well, you probably don't want to step into the ring with her.

While I think that being persecuted and a minority makes homosexual relationships more intense, it's mostly due to it being a minority. People really go through something figuring out their homosexual identity, so they are more in touch with it. Shallow relationships likewise aren't tied to a specific sexuality, but the result of what people are themselves. What I've seen mostly is that apathy and unwillingness to confront problems is what leads to dead marriages and shallow relationships. People have this stereotypical image taught by the churches in their head, and as long as you conform to that, it's okay. But it's not.

I've had some time to think,and I wanted to add a bit of elaboration as well on my...well this urge I have to be....I'm not even sure now...

This is going to sound the the dumbest thing in the world but, the LGBTQ and all within, they all have flags, they all have colours that represent their sexuality. Being straight, it has no flag, no unity, perhaps I recoil from it because it gets tagged with 'hetronormative' and I despise that...designation.

I guess, when I look deep inside, I feel this longing to 'belong' to something. To 'be' something, because as I am I don't see myself as 'anything'...or at least anything that's good to belong to.

Perhaps that's why I romanticize it so much?

I almost get what you are saying but as a Bay Area resident with quite a few gay friends I think you are definitely over romanticising it. Feeling a need to belong is normal, but being part of a crowd for the right reasons is important. I understand the need for the LGBT community to announce their pride and to wave flags because so many in our society still wishes to see them crapped on for no good reason. It's part of their struggle and a reminder of that. My aunt liked to do things for attention and shock, for a time she only dated inter-ratially because it angered my grandfather, but she wasted a lot of time in relationships she didn't want to be in and lost out on a lot of guys who would have cared for her once she realized that wasn't where here attraction really was and she was just trying to get a rise out of the family.

I don;t know how old you are, but you sound pretty young. There's nothing wrong with being "normal" just like there's nothing wrong with being "homosexual". You say you are attracted to guys and I'm sure you can find a great guy who shares many of your ideals, though I'd strongly suggest talking to a professional about the esteem issues you are definately showing long before looking at a relationship. I'd also recomend finding a CAUSE to be passionate about and turn your attention there for pride, but trying to become something that it doesn't sound like you really are is only going to end badly.

I just popped in to say this is, quite possibly, the strangest thread i've read in a long time.

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