Trump represents Russia interests at G7 Threatens Allies

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PsychedelicDiamond:

Catnip1024:

erttheking:
So glad to know that Trump alienated our allies and tried to suck off a country that hasn't been doing anyone any favors lately for FUCKING NOTHING!

Ooh, I missed that.

So that's another argument for incompetence over conspiracy...

Nah, nothing that Trump does makes sense if you look at him as a politician, even a hopelessly crooked one. There are some awful politicians in this world. Putin is one of them but I'm fairly confident at the end of the day Putin doesn't actively try to hurt Russian interests. Same for Turkey. Erdogan, complete piece of shit, but I'm sure he actually thinks he does what is best for Turkey.

I actually really doubt that about Erdogan. He's no fool and probably knows that the mixture of Dictatorship and theocracy he's trying to establish in Turkey is the same mixture that's collapsing all over the middle east. He just doesn't mind this happening because HE will be the theocratic dictator and Turkey can go pay the price for that. I'm also pretty sure he knows there's no benefit for Turkey to alienate Europe.

Saelune:
He is an evil man, him being competently evil is not a good thing either.

Definitely not. However, one should never try to downplay the strengths of something just because you disagree with it. In the case of people like Putin, where underestimating his political acumen can be potentially fatal for the longterm prosperity of Western Democracy, it is especially important to take a sober look at who he actually is.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Trump's actions, on the other only make sense if you look at him as a saboteur deliberately trying to weaken the United States nationally and internationally. There's no way he thinks anything he does actually benefits America.

Or a rather bad businessman with a fancy for corruption who somehow believes it will help him out personally.

Or an idiot who can't think more than one step ahead, who thinks making foreign goods more expensive will help the US without any negative side-effects.

I mean, I feel an actual saboteur would be more careful to avoid talking up Russia. Unless we're saying he's an incompetent saboteur on top of everything else.

Hades:
I actually really doubt that about Erdogan. He's no fool and probably knows that the mixture of Dictatorship and theocracy he's trying to establish in Turkey is the same mixture that's collapsing all over the middle east. He just doesn't mind this happening because HE will be the theocratic dictator and Turkey can go pay the price for that. I'm also pretty sure he knows there's no benefit for Turkey to alienate Europe.

We're going off-topic here, but...

I'd argue that, much as I despise Erdogan, he has a better chance of sticking around compared to the countries overthrown in the Arab spring due to the cult of personality he's been developing. I mean, when you have German international football stars more-or-less pledging allegiance to a Turkish leader, you know somethings up.

Also look at the attempted coup a while back, where people came out and stood in front of tanks for the guy. This is not some general holding his population in check through fear.

Catnip1024:
Or a rather bad businessman with a fancy for corruption who somehow believes it will help him out personally.

Or an idiot who can't think more than one step ahead, who thinks making foreign goods more expensive will help the US without any negative side-effects.

Or Trump is fascinated by and admires Putin, because Putin is the sort of leader and sort of man Trump believes, or would wish, himself to be.

I suspect Trump fantasises about the strength and machismo; the overt domineering, the authoritarian control and freedom to act without moral, legal and democratic constraint. Putin is "his kind of guy" (partly out of delusion of course because Putin is genuinely ruthless and gritty, compared to Trump's feeble pussy-grabbing and draft-dodging.)

Agema:
Or Trump is fascinated by and admires Putin, because Putin is the sort of leader and sort of man Trump believes, or would wish, himself to be.

I suspect Trump fantasises about the strength and machismo; the overt domineering, the authoritarian control and freedom to act without moral, legal and democratic constraint. Putin is "his kind of guy" (partly out of delusion of course because Putin is genuinely ruthless and gritty, compared to Trump's feeble pussy-grabbing and draft-dodging.)

Yeah, you could go down that line either. All I'm saying is, if it turns out Trump has been actively colluding with Putin, I will be taken aback. Not only because it would require a degree of actual cunning beyond what I have come to expect from Trump, but also because Putin is generally smart enough to avoid employing idiots.

WolvDragon:

The only explanation I can offer that isnt "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!" conspiracies is that maybe Trump wants to have better relations with Russia?

So the only way he can have a better relation with Russia is to actively piss off our Allies, to the point where they're going to ignore and isolate us? It's one thing to want a better relation with Russia, it's an entirely different scenario to want a better relation with only Russia, damn everyone else.

There's also the problem of why he wants better relations with Russia; Russia doesn't really have a lot the US wants or needs, and the excuse of 'They're a nuclear power; being enemies with them is dangerous' goes out the window when he's actively pissing off other Nuclear Powers (France, Britain, even India) and he ended a Nuclear Agreement with Iran that would keep the Iranians from making Nukes for at least 10 years (Regardless of your feelings of the agreement over all, there is no way Iran could've made Nukes without breaking the Agreement themselves).

Mr.Mattress:

WolvDragon:

The only explanation I can offer that isnt "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!" conspiracies is that maybe Trump wants to have better relations with Russia?

So the only way he can have a better relation with Russia is to actively piss off our Allies, to the point where they're going to ignore and isolate us? It's one thing to want a better relation with Russia, it's an entirely different scenario to want a better relation with only Russia, damn everyone else.

There's also the problem of why he wants better relations with Russia; Russia doesn't really have a lot the US wants or needs, and the excuse of 'They're a nuclear power; being enemies with them is dangerous' goes out the window when he's actively pissing off other Nuclear Powers (France, Britain, even India) and he ended a Nuclear Agreement with Iran that would keep the Iranians from making Nukes for at least 10 years (Regardless of your feelings of the agreement over all, there is no way Iran could've made Nukes without breaking the Agreement themselves).

You can try to have better relations with Russia and not piss off our allies. Obama tried to have to good relations with Russia early in his term, and he didn't piss off our allies. And even then our allies aren't ruled by despots like Putin.

And so he broke of the nuclear deal, it just shows he's a bigger idiot surrounded by neocons who always wanted to invade Iran.

WolvDragon:

Mr.Mattress:

WolvDragon:

The only explanation I can offer that isnt "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!" conspiracies is that maybe Trump wants to have better relations with Russia?

So the only way he can have a better relation with Russia is to actively piss off our Allies, to the point where they're going to ignore and isolate us? It's one thing to want a better relation with Russia, it's an entirely different scenario to want a better relation with only Russia, damn everyone else.

There's also the problem of why he wants better relations with Russia; Russia doesn't really have a lot the US wants or needs, and the excuse of 'They're a nuclear power; being enemies with them is dangerous' goes out the window when he's actively pissing off other Nuclear Powers (France, Britain, even India) and he ended a Nuclear Agreement with Iran that would keep the Iranians from making Nukes for at least 10 years (Regardless of your feelings of the agreement over all, there is no way Iran could've made Nukes without breaking the Agreement themselves).

You can try to have better relations with Russia and not piss off our allies. Obama tried to have to good relations with Russia early in his term, and he didn't piss off our allies. And even then our allies aren't ruled by despots like Putin.

And so he broke of the nuclear deal, it just shows he's a bigger idiot surrounded by neocons who always wanted to invade Iran.

Yes. You can.

Trump has no interest in doing so. So it's a moot point.

WolvDragon:

Mr.Mattress:

WolvDragon:

The only explanation I can offer that isnt "RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!" conspiracies is that maybe Trump wants to have better relations with Russia?

So the only way he can have a better relation with Russia is to actively piss off our Allies, to the point where they're going to ignore and isolate us? It's one thing to want a better relation with Russia, it's an entirely different scenario to want a better relation with only Russia, damn everyone else.

There's also the problem of why he wants better relations with Russia; Russia doesn't really have a lot the US wants or needs, and the excuse of 'They're a nuclear power; being enemies with them is dangerous' goes out the window when he's actively pissing off other Nuclear Powers (France, Britain, even India) and he ended a Nuclear Agreement with Iran that would keep the Iranians from making Nukes for at least 10 years (Regardless of your feelings of the agreement over all, there is no way Iran could've made Nukes without breaking the Agreement themselves).

You can try to have better relations with Russia and not piss off our allies. Obama tried to have to good relations with Russia early in his term, and he didn't piss off our allies. And even then our allies aren't ruled by despots like Putin.

And so he broke of the nuclear deal, it just shows he's a bigger idiot surrounded by neocons who always wanted to invade Iran.

image

The patience of other world leaders who previously had tried to coddle the man-child president seems to have evaporated

According to the Post, Trump bullied the leaders of Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, and Canada over removing all tariffs and trade barriers on U.S. goods. Otherwise, Trump threatened, countries would lose key access to the U.S. market, potentially resulting in the loss of millions of jobs around the world, according to the newspaper.

Merkel also was pissed off at Trump for arriving late and interrupting a meeting on gender equality. According to BuzzFeed, citing media pool reports, Trump arrived 17 minutes late to the morning meeting, missing Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau?s opening remarks and causing a commotion in the conference room.

A Friday meeting between Trump and French President Emmanuel Macron was canceled because Trump was late.

https://splinternews.com/this-g-7-photo-of-trump-from-angela-merkel-says-everyth-1826699662

So it appears that Trump chose to piss off just about everyone by behaving like a baby at G7 and the US is now bickering with Allies.
I am sure Putin could not be more pleased.

Keeping in mind of course Putin's goal here is to divide the US, EU and other world leaders to reduce their ability to act to further increase their own position. Looks like that is going very well for him as of late.

~ Also keep in mind that the biggest barriers to US goods is that the US refuses to stop using toxic chemicals and pesticides that have been deemed unsafe for human or animal use in other nations and refuse to give the American people a living wage. The vast majority of barriers to US trade would come down if the US simply chose to protect and care for their own people.

It is unreasonable to expect other nations to allow goods in they believe will harm their people, or are a violation to their laws just as the US blocks Lead paint.

Saelune:
He looks like he just doesn't want to eat his veggies.

image

Kwak:

image

That was 100% my first thought before the editing occurred! Somebody made my imagination reality and they should be consulted for national security reasons obviously.

Lil devils x:

So it appears that Trump chose to piss off just about everyone by behaving like a baby at G7 and the US is now bickering with Allies.

Wow. That's some shitty diplomacy to not bother turning up on time to meetings at a major conference.

Apparently he can't go into a meeting with Kim Jong-Un looking weak. I can't help but feel you look pretty weak when you blow your relationships with your allies to hell and throw a tantrum.

>When they think the memes are on their side and realise they aren't

image

Zontar:
>When they think the memes are on their side and realise they aren't

image

You do realize that these are just making Trump look worse. His posturing is amateurish and unprofessional and makes him appear weak. In his attempt to appear not be weak, he made himself look ridiculously weak.
Kim Jong Un is probably looking at that photo and thinking " I am going to have it too easy with this Dotard".

Zontar:
When they think the memes are on their side and realise they aren't

When he's distracting from the fact that Trump is spitting on his country with "teh memes."

Zontar:
Snip

>When they think the memes are more important than reality

image

edit: Huh... just noticed the text on that avatar image. You're really doing a great job showing how wrong people's thoughts about the alt-right are mate.

Avnger:

Zontar:
Snip

>When they think the memes are more important than reality

image

I mean they guy loves Trump even though Trump declared his country a national security issue.

Zontar:
>When they think the memes are on their side and realise they aren't

I do actually find it very interesting how both "sides" are using the same image to send different messages to their base. Merkel's people posted the image first because they looked at it and saw the leaders of the free world united behind a table while Trump sits there with his arms crossed like a baby refusing to eat his greens. Trump's people are reposting the image because they look at it and see Trump standing firm in the face of pressure from the corrupt globalist establishment.

Me, I just see a guy with tanning-goggle lines around his eyes being being backed up by the guy who chases after the Hulk. That doesn't fill me with a sense of resolute authority, but Trump sits on every chair looking like he's taking a dump, so I guess the standards are low.

I find it more interesting that this picture was posted on the twitter account "bundeskanzlerin", meaning that Merkel did it or authorized it as political statement.

That is unusually direct from her and is an acknowledgement of the escalation of the conflicts.

WolvDragon:

CaitSeith:

WolvDragon:
snip

Leaving conspiracy aside, care to explain Trump's motives to bring Russia back to G7? (and don't spare the specifics)

maybe Trump wants to have better relations with Russia?

And how will that benefit the G7?

Adam Jensen:
Why are people still taking Zontar seriously enough to respond to his posts about politics?

Beats me. But it's almost fascinating how he admires Trump's petulance like if it wasn't a sign of pure pitifulness. It's like watching a moth trying to pass through a glass window until it passes out.

Catnip1024:

I mean, I feel an actual saboteur would be more careful to avoid talking up Russia. Unless we're saying he's an incompetent saboteur on top of everything else.

What's he need to be competent for? Not like he's gonna face any consequences anytime soon.

PsychedelicDiamond:

Catnip1024:

I mean, I feel an actual saboteur would be more careful to avoid talking up Russia. Unless we're saying he's an incompetent saboteur on top of everything else.

What's he need to be competent for? Not like he's gonna face any consequences anytime soon.

He's an egocentric businessman with a dynasty thing going on. Why throw it away over something so likely to explode in your face? Because immediate consequences or no, it would scupper the Trump "brand". More so than it is already.

Catnip1024:

PsychedelicDiamond:

Catnip1024:

I mean, I feel an actual saboteur would be more careful to avoid talking up Russia. Unless we're saying he's an incompetent saboteur on top of everything else.

What's he need to be competent for? Not like he's gonna face any consequences anytime soon.

He's an egocentric businessman with a dynasty thing going on. Why throw it away over something so likely to explode in your face? Because immediate consequences or no, it would scupper the Trump "brand". More so than it is already.

Trump doesn't seem to get the concept of there being consequences for his actions, that's why.

Because that photo is causing so much senseless noise, I'd like to add some more.

Oh and for the record:

As much as I hate Trump, let's please not act like Angie Merkel is a politician worthy of admiration.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Oh and for the record:

As much as I hate Trump, let's please not act like Angie Merkel is a politician worthy of admiration.

You are not the only one who feels that way. I lost respect with her after the handling of the New Years Eve assaults .

What exactly is new here , we see two stubborn but very passionate people looking at each other. Their eyes locked in a hidden meaning of love and angry passion. ...Sorry, I just realized Trump is looking at Macron,Dam you, Macron and those sexy eyes of yours.

In all seriousness, both sides will translate this photo the way they want. Merkel's will try to show how childish trump is by not wanting to play politics. Trump's side will show how the POTUS will not bow down to anyone except what interests America directly. Photos just work that way.

PsychedelicDiamond:
As much as I hate Trump, let's please not act like Angie Merkel is a politician worthy of admiration.

RobertEHouse:

You are not the only one who feels that way. I lost respect with her after the handling of the New Years Eve assaults.

I admire Merkel a huge amount, even if I don't always agree with her.

Put it this way: look at the world's supply of national leaders. How many of them are better than Merkel? I guess there are all sorts of specific political positions who wouldn't like her: an authoritarian might fancy one of the exciting range of dictators and quasi-dictators like Putin, or a hard lefty some sort of Evo Morales, xenophobes a Jaroslaw Kaczynski (okay, he's the eminence grise, not the actual leader), etc.

But as a fairly centreist Western democrat who takes politics seriously, they aren't what I want in a leader. Then you start asking whether we want incompetents like Theresa May, or aggressive blowhards like Donald Trump? Mediocrities, lightweights or yet-to-achieve-anythings like Trudeau or Macron?

She sure fucks up or handles some things badly occasionally, but who doesn't? She believes in and stands up for the right sorts of things, she's tough, highly smart and well-informed, and most importantly generally gets stuff done mostly successfully for the good of her country and her allies. All in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, considering the last decade and all its crises.

That's also why she keeps winning elections: she's really good at her job.

Agema:

PsychedelicDiamond:
As much as I hate Trump, let's please not act like Angie Merkel is a politician worthy of admiration.

RobertEHouse:

You are not the only one who feels that way. I lost respect with her after the handling of the New Years Eve assaults.

I admire Merkel a huge amount, even if I don't always agree with her.

Put it this way: look at the world's supply of national leaders. How many of them are better than Merkel? I guess there are all sorts of specific political positions who wouldn't like her: an authoritarian might fancy one of the exciting range of dictators and quasi-dictators like Putin, or a hard lefty some sort of Evo Morales, xenophobes a Jaroslaw Kaczynski (okay, he's the eminence grise, not the actual leader), etc.

But as a fairly centreist Western democrat who takes politics seriously, they aren't what I want in a leader. Then you start asking whether we want incompetents like Theresa May, or aggressive blowhards like Donald Trump? Mediocrities, lightweights or yet-to-achieve-anythings like Trudeau or Macron?

She sure fucks up or handles some things badly occasionally, but who doesn't? She believes in and stands up for the right sorts of things, she's tough, highly smart and well-informed, and most importantly generally gets stuff done mostly successfully for the good of her country and her allies. All in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, considering the last decade and all its crises.

That's also why she keeps winning elections: she's really good at her job.

I'd unironically take Trudeau over Merkel, tbh. Don't get me wrong, there's not much he's actually accomplished but at least he projects a certain image of what a modern western country should be. Merkel's just a dusty old relic who... well, you know, she gets the job done, overall, but what she mostly represents is a country going nowhere in terms of actual social progress.

I don't blame her for dismantling our welfare state, that was the guy who came before her, but she sure as hell didn't do anything to get it running again. I was unemployed for a while. Let me tell you, the way you're treated is a fucking travesty. What happened to Germany under Merkel? Nazis getting into parliament again. Ethnic tensions being higher than ever before. The divide between rich and poor growing larger while our economy is booming. In a lot of ways Germany is a worse place now than it was before her. Again, it's not all her fault but... you know, things are deeply wrong here. Things are deeply wrong everywhere these days, mind you but it's hard not to blame her at least a little bit for it.

Listen, I'm a filthy leftist to whom everyone to the right of Marx is a Nazi, as far as I'm concerned western civilization is running headfirst into a meatgrinder right now, I've given up on the future pretty much entirely but the sad thing is, everything that has happened and everything that's gonna happen could have been avoided, had we ever stopped for a moment and considered that maybe politicians like Merkel aren't doing a good enough job and that maybe we should expect more.

CaitSeith:
Because that photo is causing so much senseless noise, I'd like to add some more.

I've gotta say that's a lovely injection of pedantry, although I fear perhaps approaching the state of being pearls before swine.

PsychedelicDiamond:
I don't blame her for dismantling our welfare state, that was the guy who came before her, but she sure as hell didn't do anything to get it running again. I was unemployed for a while. Let me tell you, the way you're treated is a fucking travesty. What happened to Germany under Merkel? Nazis getting into parliament again. Ethnic tensions being higher than ever before. The divide between rich and poor growing larger while our economy is booming. In a lot of ways Germany is a worse place now than it was before her. Again, it's not all her fault but... you know, things are deeply wrong here. Things are deeply wrong everywhere these days, mind you but it's hard not to blame her at least a little bit for it.

I don't disagree, they're all valid complaints. But what's you're listing there happening in Germany is happening almost everywhere. And as bad as it may be in Germany, plenty of places are getting it considerably worse. These are generalised Western pressures, and my take is that Merkel and Germany are holding together better than many other places. I used to think of Merkel as quite a dull functionary type, but over elements of the Euro crisis and Russian aggression, I started to appreciate her as a strong, shrewd and committed defender of Europe and European values. A genuine heavyweight amongst so many lightweight, frivolous, vapid or dodgy politicians in Europe - Cameron, Sarkozy, Berlusconi, etc.

What I certainly agree with is about her looking dated; I totally get that. She has never, ever, struck me as a transformative leader suitable to usher in a country into a new way of thinking. But when stability and a firm pair of hands was needed, she was there. Change it is a-coming, though... and she won't, I think, be the person for the job.

Agema:
A genuine heavyweight amongst so many lightweight, frivolous, vapid or dodgy politicians in Europe - Cameron, Sarkozy, Berlusconi, VARADKAR

Missed one.

PsychedelicDiamond:

Agema:

PsychedelicDiamond:
As much as I hate Trump, let's please not act like Angie Merkel is a politician worthy of admiration.

RobertEHouse:

You are not the only one who feels that way. I lost respect with her after the handling of the New Years Eve assaults.

I admire Merkel a huge amount, even if I don't always agree with her.

Put it this way: look at the world's supply of national leaders. How many of them are better than Merkel? I guess there are all sorts of specific political positions who wouldn't like her: an authoritarian might fancy one of the exciting range of dictators and quasi-dictators like Putin, or a hard lefty some sort of Evo Morales, xenophobes a Jaroslaw Kaczynski (okay, he's the eminence grise, not the actual leader), etc.

But as a fairly centreist Western democrat who takes politics seriously, they aren't what I want in a leader. Then you start asking whether we want incompetents like Theresa May, or aggressive blowhards like Donald Trump? Mediocrities, lightweights or yet-to-achieve-anythings like Trudeau or Macron?

She sure fucks up or handles some things badly occasionally, but who doesn't? She believes in and stands up for the right sorts of things, she's tough, highly smart and well-informed, and most importantly generally gets stuff done mostly successfully for the good of her country and her allies. All in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, considering the last decade and all its crises.

That's also why she keeps winning elections: she's really good at her job.

I'd unironically take Trudeau over Merkel, tbh. Don't get me wrong, there's not much he's actually accomplished but at least he projects a certain image of what a modern western country should be. Merkel's just a dusty old relic who... well, you know, she gets the job done, overall, but what she mostly represents is a country going nowhere in terms of actual social progress.

I don't blame her for dismantling our welfare state, that was the guy who came before her, but she sure as hell didn't do anything to get it running again. I was unemployed for a while. Let me tell you, the way you're treated is a fucking travesty. What happened to Germany under Merkel? Nazis getting into parliament again. Ethnic tensions being higher than ever before. The divide between rich and poor growing larger while our economy is booming. In a lot of ways Germany is a worse place now than it was before her. Again, it's not all her fault but... you know, things are deeply wrong here. Things are deeply wrong everywhere these days, mind you but it's hard not to blame her at least a little bit for it.

Listen, I'm a filthy leftist to whom everyone to the right of Marx is a Nazi, as far as I'm concerned western civilization is running headfirst into a meatgrinder right now, I've given up on the future pretty much entirely but the sad thing is, everything that has happened and everything that's gonna happen could have been avoided, had we ever stopped for a moment and considered that maybe politicians like Merkel aren't doing a good enough job and that maybe we should expect more.

We should expect more, but that does not mean we need to let Trumps win because we don't think that our non-Trump option is good enough in the interim.

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