Psuedo trans persecution

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Given that we are having the usual arguments about race, and every so often have one about transgender people, why not combine the two and argue about transethnic people?

In case you haven't heard of this (I myself was in this happy state until about 15 minutes ago), these people (such as this charming individual) who believe that they are a different ethnic group than the one they were born as. Additionally, they are apparently equally oppressed as transgender people, despite the lack of hate crimes and general prejudice against them.

Alternatively, we have lots of arguments about weight on the forum, what about transfat people? No, not people made from unsaturated fat with trans-isomer (E-isomer) fatty acid(s), thin people who are fat "on the inside". Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath".[1]

For some reason these people don't get the attention that transgender issues do, and that's deeply, deeply unfair.

...

Now, my first response to this was along the lines of "WTF, is wrong with you? Um...nothing is wrong with you, that's what's wrong with you!"

TBH, this isn't much different from the "fursecution" outrage stuff, pretending that being harsh to furries (which not nice) is a hate crime.

But, WTF? Is being persecuted such a wonderful thing that everyone has to give it a try, and needs to make something up to be pretend to be persecuted over? The trans community gets lots of actual persecution, pretending you're just like them is mindnumbinfly ignorant at best.

[1] Admittedly, this sounds a lot like a serious neurological problem, which is a legitimate concern, but I don't mean those people

I've read a book from a Dutch neuroscientist about the brain. He described that your brain has a idea of how your body should look like. Sometimes this 'mental image' is disturbed, 'broken', and people don't 'want' their arm or leg anymore, or don't want their penis, or want to be female while they're male.

So, some of those people have a leg they don't want. It's a completely healthy and functional leg, but they just don't want it anymore due to that 'broken body image'. Most of them want to amputate their leg, and like 99,9% of the people whose leg gets amputated are happier than before.

If someone genuinely wants to change gender/race, let them. It's deeply ingrained in their brain, doesn't harm them, doesn't harm me.

Edit: Found it!

Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID), formerly known as Amputee Identity Disorder, is a psychological disorder wherein sufferers feel they would be happier living as an amputee. It is typically accompanied by the desire to amputate one or more healthy limbs to achieve that end.
One theory states that the origin of BIID is that it is a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe). According to this theory, the brain mapping does not incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form.

However, BIID does not simply involve amputation. It involves any wish to significantly alter body integrity. Some people suffer from the desire to become paralyzed, blind, deaf, use orthopaedic appliances such as leg-braces, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

I just found out about a half hour ago that I know one of these people, and I'm still fucking freaked out by it.

My take: No, no, no, NO JFC GODDAMN NO.

Transabled... I'd love to whack these people with a baseball bat a few times and see if they like being in the kind of pain I'm in from CP and fibro every day. I bet none of these "transabled" people would last ten minutes in the body of an actual disabled person.

(And I really think the tumblr community that's enabling these kids to think this way is unhealthy, to say the least. I get adolescent angst, I mean, we've all been there. Thinking you're something else, you've got to be different in some way. But this is actively hurtful to people who go through ableism and racism every day, and it's really messing with the separation of reality and fantasy. What ever happened to just being garden-variety obsessed with something you're into?)

"Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath"." These people do not deserve disability benefits like handicap parking because they aren't actually disabled, they just think they are.

I find the whole concept of these transethnic people to be strange, it's one of those completely illogical things with no clear cut answer.

Xan Krieger:
"Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath"." These people do not deserve disability benefits like handicap parking because they aren't actually disabled, they just think they are.

Read my post please. Don't you think Body Integrity Identity Disorder is a disability?

Danyal:
I've read a book from a Dutch neuroscientist about the brain. He described that your brain has a idea of how your body should look like. Sometimes this 'mental image' is disturbed, 'broken', and people don't 'want' their arm or leg anymore, or don't want their penis, or want to be female while they're male.

I have a passing familiarity with that, yes.

Now, if someone is legitimately suffering from a condition like that, that's fair enough.

However, I don't think that's the same as considering themselves disabled, or wishing they were.

thaluikhain:
However, I don't think that's the same as considering themselves disabled, or wishing they were.

Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID), formerly known as Amputee Identity Disorder, is a psychological disorder wherein sufferers feel they would be happier living as an amputee. It is typically accompanied by the desire to amputate one or more healthy limbs to achieve that end.

I don't know whether they consider themselves disabled already, but BIID certainly is wishing to be disabled.

And... 'a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function' sounds like a disability to me.

thaluikhain:
Now, if someone is legitimately suffering from a condition like that, that's fair enough.

I don't think people consistently and persistently wish to be disabled just for fun and giggles.

Danyal:
I don't think people consistently and persistently wish to be disabled just for fun and giggles.

Consistently and persistently, no.

thaluikhain:

Danyal:
I don't think people consistently and persistently wish to be disabled just for fun and giggles.

Consistently and persistently, no.

Right.

Danyal, there's a difference between the mental illness you're talking about and the desire for angsty teens to feel special by co-opting social justice language about actual oppressions, and wishing they were something else. This age's version of the same kind of thing that made kids be goth back when I was a teenager, the always-present sense of alienation a lot of kids feel and most grow out of as they get older. They see people with genuine oppression being given a lot of attention and care on Tumblr, and they want some attention for themselves. Having read some of their writing, I'd be very, very surprised if many or any of them have the illness you're talking about.

(I wanted to be a small-breasted, tall, long raven-haired, green eyed mage when I was a kid. It didn't mean that I actually *was* one, or that my brain was trying to tell me my body wasn't actually mine.)

Polarity27:
Right.

Danyal, there's a difference between the mental illness you're talking about and the desire for angsty teens to feel special by co-opting social justice language about actual oppressions, and wishing they were something else. This age's version of the same kind of thing that made kids be goth back when I was a teenager, the always-present sense of alienation a lot of kids feel and most grow out of as they get older. They see people with genuine oppression being given a lot of attention and care on Tumblr, and they want some attention for themselves. Having read some of their writing, I'd be very, very surprised if many or any of them have the illness you're talking about.

(I wanted to be a small-breasted, tall, long raven-haired, green eyed mage when I was a kid. It didn't mean that I actually *was* one, or that my brain was trying to tell me my body wasn't actually mine.)

Right.

I have zero experience with the thing you're talking about.

If an adult wants to be disabled, consistently and persistently, complaining about a specific part of his body for years, and he wants an amputation, then, 'BIID'.

Danyal:
If an adult wants to be disabled, consistently and persistently, complaining about a specific part of his body for years, and he wants an amputation, then, 'BIID'.

"If".

Yes, if that person has an actual problem, they have an actual problem. If they don't, they should not expect too much sympathy, nor should they expect people to be too happy with them comparing themselves with people who do.

It's like "fursecution", or people not liking weeaboos or bronies. Yeah, you wish they'd stop hassling the things you like, fair enough. Claiming it's a serious problem, the same as racism or something, is bullshit.

thaluikhain:

Danyal:
If an adult wants to be disabled, consistently and persistently, complaining about a specific part of his body for years, and he wants an amputation, then, 'BIID'.

"If".

Yes, if that person has an actual problem, they have an actual problem. If they don't, they should not expect too much sympathy, nor should they expect people to be too happy with them comparing themselves with people who do.

It's like "fursecution", or people not liking weeaboos or bronies. Yeah, you wish they'd stop hassling the things you like, fair enough. Claiming it's a serious problem, the same as racism or something, is bullshit.

As far as I know, 'furryness' is not a serious, medical disorder. BIID is. And I think 'bigotry against BIID' is a worse problem than racism. Of course, racism is a 'bigger' problem because BIID is quite uncommon, but I'd prefer being born as a racial minority over being born with BIID.

Danyal:
As far as I know, 'furryness' is not a serious, medical disorder. BIID is. And I think 'bigotry against BIID' is a worse problem than racism. Of course, racism is a 'bigger' problem because BIID is quite uncommon, but I'd prefer being born as a racial minority over being born with BIID.

...

Ok, in case you've missed it the five times it's been said already in this thread, this is not about people who have an actual problem.

This is about people who don't, but demand people treat them as if they do.

thaluikhain:
Ok, in case you've missed it the five times it's been said already in this thread, this is not about people who have an actual problem.

This is about people who don't, but demand people treat them as if they do.

Ahum, I'm sorry, but you might put that in the OP.

thaluikhain:
Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath".

That's a legitimate concern. I couldn't smell that this thread existed solely to make fun of *strange people with strange desires*.

Danyal:
As far as I know, 'furryness' is not a serious, medical disorder. BIID is.

You sure?

Quoting this article now:

But a small minority take it further still - believing they are animals trapped in human bodies, or consider themselves to be part animal. A study by Ms Gerbasi at one furry convention found about a quarter of the participants did not consider themselves 100% human.

She is currently researching this in relation to gender identity disorder, when people feel they are the wrong sex and trapped in the wrong body. She says currently unpublished data supports the hypothesis that there are similarities. She is calling it species identity disorder.

Thing is, I don't think we know nearly enough as we want to about how these kinds of disorders arise, how severe they can be and what (if at all) grounding they have in neuro-psychology.

Generally, though, I agree with Polarity on this issue: it's important to separate using a group identifier as a mechanism for escapism and an actual Neuropathological disorder. What the above should have shown is that it's far from easy to separate those two in some cases - especially since I'd think that the actual set of people who display this "transethnicism" or other deviancies like BIID is extremely small meaning research into the area is limited.

This smallness of possible samples is quite possibly also the reason why we can dismiss such claims immediately as insane. Essentially, it's the question where personal insanity begins and (intrinsically being a group phenomenon) the disorder ends.

thaluikhain:
Given that we are having the usual arguments about race, and every so often have one about transgender people, why not combine the two and argue about transethnic people?[...] Alternatively, we have lots of arguments about weight on the forum, what about transfat people? No, not people made from unsaturated fat with trans-isomer (E-isomer) fatty acid(s), thin people who are fat "on the inside". Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath".

Ye gads. I've seen my share of internet weirdoes before, but rarely do you see people go to such lengths to rationalise and justify their entirely concocted fictitious dream-world.

I suppose a lot of this bizarre behaviour could be chalked up to a victim/persecution complex, and as Polarity righly pointed out, there's a measure of power and fraternity to be found in a problem shared. Even if that problem only exists in the minds of the deluded.

On a personal note, I'd venture that contemporary society actually, on some levels, values being an underdog or minority and affords this status a measure of prestige. Being able to claim victim status is comforting; it puts you in the moral high ground, it requires no further action on your part, any whining you care to do on the subject can be explained as "awareness raising", any criticism you recieve in return can be dismissed as proof positive of the cruel majority[1] being either ignorant of your plight or active agents in perpetuating it. There is a certain mindset of people who find more satisfaction in picking at scabs than letting them heal, and you find these people over-represented in the political Left. If being part of the Majority is synonymous with being complicit with, and benefitting from, whatever socially-repugnant policies are currently being enacted (war, social injustices, institutionalised racism and sexism, you name it) then naturally it's more desirable to identify yourself as a Minority.

"You're talking from a position of privilege, man! You don't understand! None of us wants to be disadvantaged!" - so why do these vocal minorities wear their victim-status like a badge of honour, wield it like a cudgel to bludgeon their opposition with, and let it define them as people? Victim-status may not be desirable in itself, but I'd wager it's comforting. It gives identity, it comes with a ready-made support network, it lets you identify effortlessly with people who have shared experiences. It even lets you[2] feel justifiably angry about your predicament, and conveniently provides you with bogeyman to vent your frustrations at. Even I (straight white cisgendered male with a silver spoon up his ass, pass the ivory back-scratcher, Jeeves) can see how that could be cathartic. Horribly unproductive and even self-destructive, but cathartic nonetheless.

Possibly related:

The woman who wasn't there: a woman who claimed to be a 9/11 survivor

Why would somebody pretend to have cancer?

Wikipedia: Munchausen syndrome

[1] The 1%, The Patriarchy, Big Government, Big Pharma, The Illuminati, The Jews... etc
[2] All my instances of "you" are general. That's a bad habit I should really stop doing

Dajosch:

Danyal:
As far as I know, 'furryness' is not a serious, medical disorder. BIID is.

You sure?

Quoting this article now:

I'm positive furryism is a genuine medical disorder.

One which can only be cured with a liberal application of fire.

Dajosch:

But a small minority take it further still - believing they are animals trapped in human bodies, or consider themselves to be part animal.

Thing is, I don't think we know nearly enough as we want to about how these kinds of disorders arise, how severe they can be and what (if at all) grounding they have in neuro-psychology.

Okay, I didn't know that. But still.
People who want to loose a limb suffer from a genuine medical disorder - except for a few who fake it.
'Furries' just have a strange hobby - except for a few who have genuine medical disorder.

Batou667:
If being part of the Majority is synonymous with being complicit with, and benefitting from, whatever socially-repugnant policies are currently being enacted (war, social injustices, institutionalised racism and sexism, you name it) then naturally it's more desirable to identify yourself as a Minority.

That's a point, didn't think of that. You have lots of people saying they can't be prejudiced in regards to X, because they are on the sharp end of prejudice in regards to Y.

If you're not on the sharp end of Y, best make up a Z, even if it involved being a dragon.

Danyal:

'Furries' just have a strange hobby - except for a few who have genuine medical disorder.

I agree with you here - however, I think the whole issue is a bit more complicated than that since the definition of what a furry actually is, is...fuzzy at best. I'll just point to another post of mine in which I highlighted that extensively[1].

EDIT: somehow missed the important second part of the quote here...edited a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[1] This was also posted in a thread that tried to tackle this whole Species Disorder Thingy with Furries - it's also where I got that article from

The obvious flaw in all of this nonsense is that there is a biological factor in how one feels about one's gender identity- In other words, hormones play a role and it is not exclusively "in the mind". There is no established biological component for how one feels about one's race (or species). Yes, biology can make you black, but there is no biological component to how you feel about being black. That is purely cultural/psychological.

Now if we ever reach the point where our society is so technologically advanced that low-cost, non-risk cosmetic surgery is widely available, I support people turning themselves into whatever they want to be. Want to be a flying 3-assed badger? Knock yourself out. But until that point it's probably going to be more cost-effective to take a moment for introspection and figure out why you're so insecure that you feel it's appropriate to co-opt real problems real people have just so you can get some attention.

I actually used to date someone who while not quite claiming to be trans-ethnic, really got herself worked up about the fact that she wasn't Asian. She was gorgeous, fun, on a great career path, and had a dashing boyfriend who was most enthusiastic about pleasing her if you catch the drift. But it seems she got it into her head that because she was white, she was uninteresting. I remember one instance we were at some department store and an Asian woman was shopping for clothes in the same section as her and it actually seemed to hurt her- she was visibly frustrated by merely encountering this woman. As you can probably predict, deep insecurities were eventually revealed and the relationship went south rather quickly. She ended up breaking things off to be with the first Asian man she could find, a rather dubious character who she let do a lot of hurtful things to her so she could live out her fantasy. I've since lost track of her though occasionally I hear rumors of what she's up to, and it sounds like she's gotten her life more or less on track. Needless to say, I feel like I dodged a bullet.

...aren't a lot of the people who denounce this the same who acknowledge "emotional harm" as something relevant? Well, who are you then to deny them their subjective experience of alienation and persecution?!

I mean, sure, there isn't anything in objective reality that is trampling on their rights, but they might just commit suicide over such harsh words questioning and ridiculing their identity: Something which you, with all your privilege of a mainstream/acknowledged minority identity, will never understand. Certainly hatespeech protection is needed here, can't just protect choice minorities with enough political leverage to get in the law books can we now?

...

Ah, nothing like constructing a high horse out of thin air and what various delusional weirdos - who for once aren't even religious - might feel like latching onto for identity, and ride it into the sunset. I call it Sunspot!

On a more serious note, that's just an example of yet another reason why hatespeech legislation need to go. Protecting certain groups, while ignoring others to which equal emotion and identity might be bound, is discriminatory and violates equality before the law. But who would ever consider these people worthy of protection?

Also, as a mermaid who just got out of an abusive relationship with an octopus, I'd like to say that some of us have real problems here.

thaluikhain:
Given that we are having the usual arguments about race, and every so often have one about transgender people, why not combine the two and argue about transethnic people?

In case you haven't heard of this (I myself was in this happy state until about 15 minutes ago), these people (such as this charming individual) who believe that they are a different ethnic group than the one they were born as. Additionally, they are apparently equally oppressed as transgender people, despite the lack of hate crimes and general prejudice against them.

thaluikhain:

Alternatively, we have lots of arguments about weight on the forum, what about transfat people? No, not people made from unsaturated fat with trans-isomer (E-isomer) fatty acid(s), thin people who are fat "on the inside". Or trans disabled, people who are blind or paraplegic, "underneath".[1]

For some reason these people don't get the attention that transgender issues do, and that's deeply, deeply unfair.

I guess I have to question the sincerity of these people, because I find it hard to believe. That said, it provided a good laugh.

[1] Admittedly, this sounds a lot like a serious neurological problem, which is a legitimate concern, but I don't mean those people

Katatori-kun:
The obvious flaw in all of this nonsense is that there is a biological factor in how one feels about one's gender identity- In other words, hormones play a role and it is not exclusively "in the mind". There is no established biological component for how one feels about one's race (or species). Yes, biology can make you black, but there is no biological component to how you feel about being black. That is purely cultural/psychological.

Now if we ever reach the point where our society is so technologically advanced that low-cost, non-risk cosmetic surgery is widely available, I support people turning themselves into whatever they want to be. Want to be a flying 3-assed badger? Knock yourself out. But until that point it's probably going to be more cost-effective to take a moment for introspection and figure out why you're so insecure that you feel it's appropriate to co-opt real problems real people have just so you can get some attention.

I actually used to date someone who while not quite claiming to be trans-ethnic, really got herself worked up about the fact that she wasn't Asian. She was gorgeous, fun, on a great career path, and had a dashing boyfriend who was most enthusiastic about pleasing her if you catch the drift. But it seems she got it into her head that because she was white, she was uninteresting. I remember one instance we were at some department store and an Asian woman was shopping for clothes in the same section as her and it actually seemed to hurt her- she was visibly frustrated by merely encountering this woman. As you can probably predict, deep insecurities were eventually revealed and the relationship went south rather quickly. She ended up breaking things off to be with the first Asian man she could find, a rather dubious character who she let do a lot of hurtful things to her so she could live out her fantasy. I've since lost track of her though occasionally I hear rumors of what she's up to, and it sounds like she's gotten her life more or less on track. Needless to say, I feel like I dodged a bullet.

regarding the bolded part- Hi my name's Melanie ;)

I have never known anyone who has wanted to be something they are not, except maybe taller, shorter (me), thinner, different hair color (me again)... since trans(gender) people don't WANT to be something else, they ARE. It is interesting though... about this girl who desperately wanted to be asian. I had never heard of that. Wanting to be disabled, or blind... very curious indeed.

Beautiful Tragedy:
I have never known anyone who has wanted to be something they are not, except maybe taller, shorter (me), thinner, different hair color (me again)... since trans(gender) people don't WANT to be something else, they ARE. It is interesting though... about this girl who desperately wanted to be asian. I had never heard of that. Wanting to be disabled, or blind... very curious indeed.

Well said. You bring up what is the key distinction here. It's not what you want to be, it's what you are. This woman I was dating wasn't "Asian on the inside." I think she just attached a lot of notions (notions that existed more in her head than reality I think) to what it meant to be an Asian woman, and wanted those notions attached to her to make up for her own insecurities. And I saw this sort of thing a lot when I was younger and had more contact with furries and "otherkin". It's a desire for attention. A desire to be different, to be special. And unfortunately it seems a frustration that arises out of the belief that one can't be special in the body they came with.

Come to think of it, it kind of reminds me of people who get super into tattoos and body-piercing. Not that everyone who gets into tattoos and body-piercing is insecure: loads of people get piercings and tattoos for aesthetic reasons. But one occasionally hears people suggest that their piercings and tattoos in and of themselves make them better people, more adventurous and exciting than "normal" people.

I'm actually transethnic. I only know of one other transethnic, and neither of us think we are oppressed, or at least not to nearly the same level as transgendered people. We'd like our identity to be seen as valid and to not be made fun of for it, but that's it. I don't even transethnicity and transexuality even have much in common other then the very bare basics. Incidentally, I am also otherkin and genderqueer, but that's...well, incidental. And also the case months before I discovered Tumblr.

I would suggest reading this http://swanblood.tumblr.com/tagged/transethnic

As for the transabled, I try not to say anything about them. I put them down in one post and a good friend of mine who isn't transabled got pissed at me. She mentioned it was a real illness, and to be honest, I'm too lazy and uncaring to look into it. Thus, my opinion of the transabled is the same as the opinion of whoever I am talking to.

Polarity27:
I just found out about a half hour ago that I know one of these people, and I'm still fucking freaked out by it.

Sorry about that. Are we cool?

TheDarkEricDraven:
I'm actually transethnic. I only know of one other transethnic, and neither of us think we are oppressed, or at least not to nearly the same level as transgendered people. We'd like our identity to be seen as valid and to not be made fun of for it, but that's it. I don't even transethnicity and transexuality even have much in common other then the very bare basics. Incidentally, I am also otherkin and genderqueer, but that's...well, incidental. And also the case months before I discovered Tumblr.

I would suggest reading this http://swanblood.tumblr.com/tagged/transethnic

As for the transabled, I try not to say anything about them. I put them down in one post and a good friend of mine who isn't transabled got pissed at me. She mentioned it was a real illness, and to be honest, I'm too lazy and uncaring to look into it. Thus, my opinion of the transabled is the same as the opinion of whoever I am talking to.

Polarity27:
I just found out about a half hour ago that I know one of these people, and I'm still fucking freaked out by it.

Sorry about that. Are we cool?

What ethnicity are you and what is the one that you identify as?

Helmholtz Watson:
What ethnicity are you and what is the one that you identify as?

White. Japanese. Cliche? Yes! Especially since I am a teenager. But in three years I'm still gonna be transethnic and you guys are gonna be like "Shit, he's legit after all, I guess this wasn't crazy teenager bullshit."

TheDarkEricDraven:

Helmholtz Watson:
What ethnicity are you and what is the one that you identify as?

White. Japanese. Cliche? Yes! Especially since I am a teenager. But in three years I'm still gonna be transethnic and you guys are gonna be like "Shit, he's legit after all, I guess this wasn't crazy teenager bullshit."

The way you typed it is a little confusing, so you are White and want to be Japanese? Do you mind me asking why you feel like you should be Japanese?

Helmholtz Watson:
The way you typed it is a little confusing, so you are White and want to be Japanese? Do you mind me asking why you feel like you should be Japanese?

Yeah, I guess, that sums it up, though I wouldn't say I "want" to be Japanese. To answer why is really beyond the scope of this thread, but you can PM me about it if you want.

TheDarkEricDraven:

Helmholtz Watson:
The way you typed it is a little confusing, so you are White and want to be Japanese? Do you mind me asking why you feel like you should be Japanese?

Yeah, I guess, that sums it up, though I wouldn't say I "want" to be Japanese. To answer why is really beyond the scope of this thread, but you can PM me about it if you want.

I'd say it's well within the scope of the thread, considering that's the topic we're discussing.

How do people react to this when you tell them (assuming you tell them)?

Gold:

I'd say it's well within the scope of the thread, considering that's the topic we're discussing.

I guess. Most of the time I talk about it's with anon's on tumblr or good friends, so I'm hesitant to do so in a community where my credibility already hangs by a thread. No pun intended. If people really care, I'll explain, but it's late now and I'm about to go to bed. And I'm in a bad mood over unrelated matters. So yeah, I'm gonna go to sleep, then I'll write something up when I can think clearer.

Gold:

How do people react to this when you tell them (assuming you tell them)?

It depends who they are. Most of the people who aren't either Tumblr trolls or Polarity are cool with it, like the Japanese girl I linked to in my first post. I asked her about it and she linked me to what she wrote. My other friends are also alright with it.

I would say that exactly because it "sounds so dumb", these things might actually have psychological or neurological causes that the person him-/herself has no conscious control over. If someone really wanted to fake a condition or illness, there are plenty more believable and socially accepted things they could go for.

Besides, when so much about us is decided by factors we have basically no control over, like genetics, pre-natal influences in the womb, environmental factors and so on, it shouldn't really come as a surprise that some people end up getting a shitty deal in terms of how they are wired neurologically or end up being psychologically, at least in terms of whether they end up with something that is accepted in their society or not.

On a related by-note, when we're first talking about these kind of things. When I look at "myself" in the mirror or on photographs, I don't really recognize myself. I mean, I get that the person I am looking at must be "me", but my head tells me I'm looking at some stranger. It honestly horrifies me a bit, because it makes me feel like I'm stuck in a body that doesn't really belong to me.

TheDarkEricDraven:
I'm actually transethnic. ... Incidentally, I am also otherkin and genderqueer, but that's...well, incidental. And also the case months before I discovered Tumblr.

Sorry, pal, you're just plain wrong. You're young, you've got an imagination, and sometimes fantasy is more alluring than drab daily life, I understand that. By my maths you're 15, right? I remember being college age too, plenty of my peers experimented with their sexuality and esoteric religions and "radki" and LARP and all manner of other fringe shit that they're faintly embarrased about now they're in their mid-20s, working office jobs and having kids.

I would suggest reading this http://swanblood.tumblr.com/tagged/transethnic

Tried reading it. Even the header had enough doublespeak in it to make my head hurt. Anyway, the basic jist seemed to be "respect what other people think, because in their minds it's real and if you don't you're a closed-minded bigot" which doesn't strike me as a very robust argument.

Not everything in life is relative, so an appeal to relativism isn't always apt. Life is a combination of absolutes, bell-curves and gradients.

Yeah! Let's hate transethnic people. Death to Michael Jackson! Oh, wait...

Danyal:
I've read a book from a Dutch neuroscientist about the brain. He described that your brain has a idea of how your body should look like. Sometimes this 'mental image' is disturbed, 'broken', and people don't 'want' their arm or leg anymore, or don't want their penis, or want to be female while they're male

While Swaab writes a good book, I don't think you quoted the gender bit right. It's been a while after reading it, but I don't Swaab says that about gender. Body identity and gender identity disorders are two separate conditions too. Plus there's the argument that body integrity disorder is harmfull, and a gender one is not. Could be some people with BID also think they should be the opposing gender and the two overlap a little in symptoms, but it's still different.

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