Do you agree support political correctness?
Yes
14.9% (21)
14.9% (21)
No
44% (62)
44% (62)
Sometimes
36.2% (51)
36.2% (51)
Other
5% (7)
5% (7)
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Poll: Political Correctness

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Father Time:

Realitycrash:
I like that no-one has still provided any clear definition of what 'Political Correctness' is.
No, no, it's far more fun to engage in shouting-matches and misunderstand each-over over basics.
Keep up the good work?

Maybe I should start with a suggested definition: Political Correctness is altering ones language, behavior, ways of expression, etc, on both individual or communal level, to avoid causing perceived harm on others, but individuals and communities.
Does that definition fit you?

Too vague. Telling a kid to stop hitting their sibling would be political correctness under that definition.

You mean the definition does not properly coincide with its mundane usage?
Alright.

"Political Correctness is altering ones language, behavior, ways of expression, etc, on both individual or communal level, to avoid causing perceived harm on others, both individuals and communities, as a response to fear of being labeled a rude/immoral/inconsiderate person or a person that shares certain beliefs or values which conflict with the current norms and are considered reprehensible".

Gethsemani:
Considering that I work in a psychiatric ward, I can safely tell you that I've seen cases of people ending up in our care because they aren't conforming to social expectations. The most notable case of this would be personality disorders (which aren't mental illness per se) but when DSM-V hits the public we can look forward to a diagnosis for not grieving the right way after significant trauma or loss, just to give one example.

Rubbish. There's a lot of that talk going around in circles of mental cases, I hear a lot of it too among the group of drug users I get to play guard for, but it's a well-deserved decision. Especially closed wards, someone needs to be stark raving mad before you can get them admitted to that, and that's often after years of a shitty life.

I've never ran across a single person placed in a mental hospital, or heard of someone sent to one, who could still take care of themselves.

And if there's one thing we shouldn't do, it's turning our backs on people living a life that's total shit due to an untreated/unsupported mental disorder 'because they're not a danger to others'. Seriously seen people cover their walls in their own shit. In cases like that there is a huge hidden societal cost if you just let people go about their business.

Blablahb:
Rubbish. There's a lot of that talk going around in circles of mental cases, I hear a lot of it too among the group of drug users I get to play guard for, but it's a well-deserved decision. Especially closed wards, someone needs to be stark raving mad before you can get them admitted to that, and that's often after years of a shitty life.

I've never ran across a single person placed in a mental hospital, or heard of someone sent to one, who could still take care of themselves.

And if there's one thing we shouldn't do, it's turning our backs on people living a life that's total shit due to an untreated/unsupported mental disorder 'because they're not a danger to others'. Seriously seen people cover their walls in their own shit. In cases like that there is a huge hidden societal cost if you just let people go about their business.

Did you enjoy tearing that strawman down? Yes? Good. Re-read my post and you'll see that nowhere did I suggest that everyone who gets admitted does so out of a failure to conform nor did I suggest that a failure to conform didn't come with a cost both to the individual and society. I am merely suggesting that the idea of what constitutes a problem that needs to be treated by psychiatric care is often in a gray area influenced by both a purely psychiatric and psychological component but also by a social component and the two latters in particular have historically been (and remain, occasionally) pretty sketchy.

I feel that we are going quite off-topic though, if anyone cares enough for this discussion I suggest they start a new thread.

Gethsemani:
Did you enjoy tearing that strawman down? Yes? Good. Re-read my post and you'll see that nowhere did I suggest that everyone who gets admitted does so out of a failure to conform nor did I suggest that a failure to conform didn't come with a cost both to the individual and society.

But you did say it happens (implying a lot) and that not conforming is a grounds for ending up there:

I've seen cases of people ending up in our care because they aren't conforming to social expectations.

And unless Sweden has the strangest admittance laws on planet earth, that's entirely untrue.

Father Time:

GunsmithKitten:

Fisher321:
When people get mad over someone saying "Merry Christmas".

Are you kidding me?

It is silly, but who's really getting mad over it?

NO ONE!

Even the most anti-Christian militant atheist doesn't get upset if someone says Merry Christmas.

There are probably a few out there who do, but they're such a small minority that it isn't worth noting. In truth, the people who really get upset are the Christians. Anytime someone doesn't say "Christmas" (usually "Happy Holidays"), they get offended and go rant/blog about the "War on Christmas", and how we're trying to take the holiday from them. We're not, of course, just some of us have recognised that Christmas isn't the only holiday at that time of year.

Helmholtz Watson:
You really think that is why people are put there, because they don't conform to what society deems as normal?

They certainly have done.

Homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1974. Before that, engaging in homosexual acts was grounds for being detained and undergoing mandatory treatments, including chemical castration and (at one point) physical castration.

Nymphomania (a Victorian, specifically female condition which has now been subsumed into the broader diagnosis of hypersexuality) could once be applied to women who were promiscuous, who masturbated or even who were sexually assaulted. It could result in detention and invasive treatments such as clitoridectomy.

Political abuse of psychiatry has also not been terribly uncommon in 20th century history. I'm unsure if it was ever actually used to imprison communists, but it has certainly been used against civil rights activists, for example.

Sorry, but I'm with Gethsemani on this one. Insane asylums were fundamentally a bad idea, and these are only some of the reasons why. You shouldn't lock someone up without their consent unless there is evidence they are an immanent threat to themselves or others, and then only for the duration during which they are assessed to be a risk. That is the only criteria on which it's acceptable to confine people who have committed no crime. Merely being psychotic or having a mental disorder is absolutely not grounds for detention and there's no real evidence that people in that position pose significantly greater risk than anyone else. Moreover, there's no evidence that detention ever helped or had a positive effect on these people.

If someone is referred for mental health treatment through the criminal justice system, then that's different. But the idea that we should simply lock people up for having mental health problems is ridiculous.

Helmholtz Watson:

You really think that is why people are put there, because they don't conform to what society deems as normal? I'm pretty sure it has more to do with people thinking that their neighbors dog talks to them and tells them to commit criminal acts[/url], then because they are just "odd".

I spent two six month stints in a psychiatric ward. I knew by name a girl who was in there because she refused to wear "girl's clothes" and one was in there because she was listening to "satanic music". Another was there because her parents were convinced that the boys she was dating were a "bad crowd".

You don't know beans about the mental health industry, it's pretty clear, if you think you have to be full on schitzophrenic to get commited against your will. If you've got insurance, or your parents do, they'll find you a bed and throw you in it.

Blablahb:

Gethsemani:
Considering that I work in a psychiatric ward, I can safely tell you that I've seen cases of people ending up in our care because they aren't conforming to social expectations. The most notable case of this would be personality disorders (which aren't mental illness per se) but when DSM-V hits the public we can look forward to a diagnosis for not grieving the right way after significant trauma or loss, just to give one example.

Rubbish. There's a lot of that talk going around in circles of mental cases, I hear a lot of it too among the group of drug users I get to play guard for, but it's a well-deserved decision. Especially closed wards, someone needs to be stark raving mad before you can get them admitted to that, and that's often after years of a shitty life.

I've never ran across a single person placed in a mental hospital, or heard of someone sent to one, who could still take care of themselves.

And if there's one thing we shouldn't do, it's turning our backs on people living a life that's total shit due to an untreated/unsupported mental disorder 'because they're not a danger to others'. Seriously seen people cover their walls in their own shit. In cases like that there is a huge hidden societal cost if you just let people go about their business.

To be fair, you're in a country that has a far better mentality and approach to medical care of most kinds, including mental health.

The US...we're slaves of the insurance vampires down here.

Blablahb:
And if there's one thing we shouldn't do, it's turning our backs on people living a life that's total shit due to an untreated/unsupported mental disorder 'because they're not a danger to others'.

You're acting as if there's a simple choice between detaining people simply for showing symptoms and not treating them at all. There is a very clear and obvious middle ground between those two points. You don't need to treat every mentally ill person under detention in a secure unit, neither has it ever been demonstrated to be productive or cost effective to do so.

Locking a patient (who was not otherwise a clear risk) up because they show symptoms of having a personality disorder would be no more ethical than locking someone up because they didn't cry at their mother's funeral. It's not beneficial in terms of treating them, the only benefit is to society which doesn't have to deal with a person behaving weirdly or antisocially.

Assassin Xaero:
Yep, the same one that says that we shouldn't put crazy people in mental help facilities because we don't want them to feel like they don't fit in with society, so they are out here running around, kill their mother, then shoot up a school.

I just noticed this pretty obvious reference and was amazed noone has commented on it.. Seriously, what the fuck.

Adam Lanza, according to an anonymous official, had been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome. Aspergers syndrome is not a mental illness, it's a developmental disorder. The two things are completely unrelated except in the sense that the social isolation brought on by Aspergers syndrome can lead to depression and other personality disorders. If Lanza had such a disorder, it was undiagnosed.

Putting people with Aspergers syndrome in "mental help" facilities, by which I presume you mean psychiatric hospitals, would do absolutely nothing to help them. Moreover, since people with the condition have never been demonstrated to be higher risk that the general population, it would be no more rational than locking up everyone who can't spell, or who isn't very good at basketball, or who can't do mental arithmetic.

evilthecat:

Assassin Xaero:
Yep, the same one that says that we shouldn't put crazy people in mental help facilities because we don't want them to feel like they don't fit in with society, so they are out here running around, kill their mother, then shoot up a school.

I just noticed this pretty obvious reference and was amazed noone has commented on it.. Seriously, what the fuck.

Adam Lanza, according to an anonymous official, had been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome. Aspergers syndrome is not a mental illness, it's a developmental disorder. The two things are completely unrelated except in the sense that the social isolation brought on by Aspergers syndrome can lead to depression and other personality disorders. If Lanza had such a disorder, it was undiagnosed.

Putting people with Aspergers syndrome in "mental help" facilities, by which I presume you mean psychiatric hospitals, would do absolutely nothing to help them. Moreover, since people with the condition have never been demonstrated to be higher risk that the general population, it would be no more rational than locking up everyone who can't spell, or who isn't very good at basketball, or who can't do mental arithmetic.

Actually, the current fad in psychiatry is to refer to the autism spectrum disorders as neuropsychiatric disorders and thus fall under our purvey somewhat. I think it is really important to emphasize the fact that psychiatry today ranges from personality disorders to autism spectrum disorders to depressions, anxiety and bipolarity to disorders involving hallucinations and psychosis.

It is quite important to realize that when discussing the broad term "psychiatry" we are hitting a very diverse group of care recipients and it is imperative that we don't equate psychiatry just with psychosis care. Blab is doing that, sadly, and that's supposedly also why he can't see the point you, me and Kitten are trying to make. Since I work mostly with affective disorders (depression, anxiety, bipolarity etc.), eating disorders an personality disorders I see a whole different kind of psychiatry then the image Blab and Xaero is trying to conjure up of "loonies" with homicidal intent.

No, practically never. Political correctness, for the most part, is a cultural and intellectual atrocity.

"Political correctness", implying that some line of thought is inherently correct. What garbage.

I think, by far, that the worst case of political correctness is the attacking of titles that have the "man" suffix; policeman, fireman, etc. Also, when they get angry at terms like "All men are created equal" Not only is it eye-rollingly ridiculous, but it ruins feminist credibility by making them look totally ignorant. When a grown person doesn't have even a simple enough understanding of their language to realize that "man" refers to the whole race(i.e. mankind), I cant take them or their cause seriously.

cthulhuspawn82:
When a grown person doesn't have even a simple enough understanding of their language to realize that "man" refers to the whole race(i.e. mankind), I cant take them or their cause seriously.

Not entirely true.

Historically, "all men are created equal" does not refer to the whole race at all. It refers to the unconsciously propagated notion that only men are political actors. That is why the legal enshrinement of "all men are created equal" did not grant women the franchise, it did not grant them equal rights over property or wages, it did not even grant them the same rights over their families, nor the same form of criminal responsibility.

I know this is difficult to understand or to grasp in our current age, but historically women were not seen as part of the human race in the same way as men. The inferiority of women was not something men maintained out of some kind of selfish desire to hog all the power, it was to its believers a simple fact, a natural law whose reflection in civil law was not even worthy of being questioned because it was completely self-evident. This wording, and its presumption to apply only to men, was not even seen as controversial by anyone until about half a century after the declaration of independence was signed.

I think you've missed the point of androcentrism. Everyone is capable of understanding that you can use the word "man" to mean "mankind". The problem is that its use in such a way reflects an archaic view of humanity in which men are at centre of the human race and women are thereby reduced to peripheral status. The issue here is not that people are going to assume you're only talking about men, but that you are taking men to be the "default" or normative form of human being, and because of that the chances are that you are only really thinking about men, even if you haven't specifically excluded women from the category under discussion.

It's extremely rare for anyone to ever use "man" as a genuinely gender-neutral term. It is at best a non-exclusive term.

Gethsemani:
snip

That's fair enough. I think you have a much better understanding of what the argument here is than I do, I was just annoyed by the idea that anyone would fail to recognize the need for a distinction in care and treatment between people with aspergers and psychotic patients.

Hammeroj:
No, practically never. Political correctness, for the most part, is a cultural and intellectual atrocity.

Yep, it's an atrocity that people would dare get offended if I called them racial slurs right? How DARE they! Why can't I be allowed to publically demean people without people getting on my case about it?! /sarcasm

GunsmithKitten:

Hammeroj:
No, practically never. Political correctness, for the most part, is a cultural and intellectual atrocity.

Yep, it's an atrocity that people would dare get offended if I called them racial slurs right? How DARE they! Why can't I be allowed to publically demean people without people getting on my case about it?! /sarcasm

and the employees who catch someone doing something wrong and getting FIRED for it because the person was of X race and the company does not want to risk being seen as racist?

some political correctness is fine, but as of right now all it does is screw over decent folks and force people to hate one another as it creates a dizzy amount of double standards. The people in the South dont have much political correctness and have the sensitivity of a brick, yet the different communities get along a hell of a lot better than the "enlightened" North which has extreme political correctless and values sensitivity at the cost of honesty, respect, and fairness (and the North is less diversified to boot, and a hell of a lot more racist).

smoothing out the rougher edges of society is fine, and there are some lines which should not be crossed in general. As of right now though, extreme political correctness is dividing up the country along racial/religious/cultural lines more so than any single event in our history

Ryotknife:
The people in the South dont have much political correctness and have the sensitivity of a brick, yet the different communities get along a hell of a lot better than the "enlightened" North which has extreme political correctless and values sensitivity at the cost of honesty, respect, and fairness (and the North is less diversified to boot, and a hell of a lot more racist).

You might want to rethink that one. The next town over had a sign until 1981 that read "Nigger, dont' let the sun set on you in <Name withheld>".

A relative of mine made a sport of going through black neighborhoods with his friends, baring a giant watermelon from the back of his truck yelling "Here nigger nigger nigger!"

My grandfather wouldn't shut up about "New York jews" running the world.

My boss doesn't blink an eye about "damn slopes" or "niggers" either.

And don't you even try to get me started on how gay people are talked about here.

I don't know if you're from the south, jack, but I am, and one of the few things that upsets me more than people thinking we're ALL like those idiots is people like you who somehow think you're on a pedestal above the yankees in terms of bigotry and intolerence. It's a pedestal we don't deserve to be on, same as them.

GunsmithKitten:

Ryotknife:
The people in the South dont have much political correctness and have the sensitivity of a brick, yet the different communities get along a hell of a lot better than the "enlightened" North which has extreme political correctless and values sensitivity at the cost of honesty, respect, and fairness (and the North is less diversified to boot, and a hell of a lot more racist).

You might want to rethink that one. The next town over had a sign until 1981 that read "Nigger, dont' let the sun set on you in <Name withheld>".

A relative of mine made a sport of going through black neighborhoods with his friends, baring a giant watermelon from the back of his truck yelling "Here nigger nigger nigger!"

My grandfather wouldn't shut up about "New York jews" running the world.

My boss doesn't blink an eye about "damn slopes" or "niggers" either.

And don't you even try to get me started on how gay people are talked about here.

I don't know if you're from the south, jack, but I am, and one of the few things that upsets me more than people thinking we're ALL like those idiots is people like you who somehow think you're on a pedestal above the yankees in terms of bigotry and intolerence. It's a pedestal we don't deserve to be on, same as them.

I AM a yankee. Lived in New York state for over 25 years.

I spent a year or two in Alabama, the heart of the redneck stereotype (also banjos). This was in the middle part of Alabama, where there generally isnt any signs of civilization for miles around. Lived in a small town where i was basically the only white person (or at least it felt that way). I felt more at home with them than at my actual home in white neighborhood. Nearly everyone was nice and respectful. They didnt look at me in a way that suggests if they let their guard down for one second that ill try to slap them back into chains like so many ive met. Even many of the really nice folks ive met up north are quick to use the race card, but the ones down South never used it on me. Sure, they would occassionaly make an off color joke at my expense, but it was all in good fun and it was never malicious or personal.

Compare this with NYS where generally the blacks and whites want NOTHING to do with one another, and nearly every interaction is....tense. People treat each other with suspicion and are very rarely openly honest with strangers. Hell, in the past 10 years I never talked to any of my neighbors (and not because i dont want to) in 4 different households in that time period. Meanwhile while I was down there i would regularly have long conversations with complete strangers out of the blue.

im not saying southerners are better than yankees, but they are less racist from what ive seen which is ironic considering that yankees used to pride themselves on it (woo we fought to end slavery, we must be an accepting people!). Although having an intelligent conversation down South was....hard to find. If i wanted to tick people off all i had to do was use large words in my speech. In fact the people whom i worked with down there regularly mentioned how they were going to implement a tax everytime i used a word greater than 7 letters. Obviously they were just kidding around and purposely acting like a stereotypical southerner.

Couldnt say i want to live in Alabama. Other than the decent folks....really had nothing that intices me. Internet was crap (and that is being nice), hate the weather, dont like Tornadoes/hurricanes, food is not very good and will likely give me a heart attack in a few years, and the wildlife scares me. Ill stick with the mean racist yankees. Although the super cheap gas was nice. 50 cents cheaper per gallon than NYS (freakin taxes)

Although I will say that the combination of Southern accent and ebonics is very difficult for me to understand sometimes. Either one alone can be difficult for a yankee to comprehend, both together and it is like trying to listen to a drunk Scot. An effort in futility.

Southerners kinda remind me of the British in some way. Sure they make jokes, but it is all (usually) in good fun. Although im sure both sides are reeling from disgust from being compared to one another.

I just see political correctness as politeness. Theres stuff I dont get like why calling a dwarf a midget is offensive, but hey live and learn.

adamsaccount:
I just see political correctness as politeness. Theres stuff I dont get like why calling a dwarf a midget is offensive, but hey live and learn.

The problem is that "midget" was very much taken up in the freakshow circuit. Thus, it references a history in which people with dwarfism were heavily exploited for entertainment purposes (as indeed they still are, but not quite as barefacedly).

Calling someone a "dwarf" is not offensive, since it references the medical term "dwarfism", but nonetheless some individuals may not like it (perhaps because they find it too clinical, or they feel it's dehumanizing). That's why we have alternative terms like "Little People".

It might seem kind of silly, but try and put yourself in the position of someone who has dwarfism and imagine how much it would determine and limit your life, your social interaction, a whole load of areas which other people can take for granted. Is it really surprising that those people might have strong emotional reactions to different terms?

I have a similar attitude to you, I think. I see it as a kind of politeness which you have to take seriously even if you don't understand it. I could never imagine telling someone that it doesn't matter, because if it matters to them then what I'd actually be saying there is that they don't matter, and that's kind of harsh.

Ah right, obviously no disrespect to little people intended. A story my cousin told me seems quite relevant to this topic. He was at work when he accidentally used the term "retard" in front of (not at) a collegue with cerebral palsy, but he realised he was safe because to be offended by that term she would have had to imply the she herself was retarded. I dont know what lesson this teaches but hell i thought it was quite funny.

Ryotknife:
snip

I won't discount your experience, it's your own and I believe it.

But you're still kidding yourself if you think that we've got this problem mended up or that off color good natured jokes are the rule of the day instead of still being the exception in many areas. You said yourself you stuck to a black neighborhood in Alabama; do you really think your experience would have been the same if you were in a trailer park deep in eastern Kentucky/northeast Tennesseee/southwest Virginia? Everything you described about NYS easily applies to any number of communities up here, especially deep up the coal roads.

Ryotknife:

GunsmithKitten:

Ryotknife:
The people in the South dont have much political correctness and have the sensitivity of a brick, yet the different communities get along a hell of a lot better than the "enlightened" North which has extreme political correctless and values sensitivity at the cost of honesty, respect, and fairness (and the North is less diversified to boot, and a hell of a lot more racist).

You might want to rethink that one. The next town over had a sign until 1981 that read "Nigger, dont' let the sun set on you in <Name withheld>".

A relative of mine made a sport of going through black neighborhoods with his friends, baring a giant watermelon from the back of his truck yelling "Here nigger nigger nigger!"

My grandfather wouldn't shut up about "New York jews" running the world.

My boss doesn't blink an eye about "damn slopes" or "niggers" either.

And don't you even try to get me started on how gay people are talked about here.

I don't know if you're from the south, jack, but I am, and one of the few things that upsets me more than people thinking we're ALL like those idiots is people like you who somehow think you're on a pedestal above the yankees in terms of bigotry and intolerence. It's a pedestal we don't deserve to be on, same as them.

I AM a yankee. Lived in New York state for over 25 years.

I spent a year or two in Alabama, the heart of the redneck stereotype (also banjos). This was in the middle part of Alabama, where there generally isnt any signs of civilization for miles around. Lived in a small town where i was basically the only white person (or at least it felt that way). I felt more at home with them than at my actual home in white neighborhood. Nearly everyone was nice and respectful. They didnt look at me in a way that suggests if they let their guard down for one second that ill try to slap them back into chains like so many ive met. Even many of the really nice folks ive met up north are quick to use the race card, but the ones down South never used it on me. Sure, they would occassionaly make an off color joke at my expense, but it was all in good fun and it was never malicious or personal.

Compare this with NYS where generally the blacks and whites want NOTHING to do with one another, and nearly every interaction is....tense. People treat each other with suspicion and are very rarely openly honest with strangers. Hell, in the past 10 years I never talked to any of my neighbors (and not because i dont want to) in 4 different households in that time period. Meanwhile while I was down there i would regularly have long conversations with complete strangers out of the blue.

im not saying southerners are better than yankees, but they are less racist from what ive seen which is ironic considering that yankees used to pride themselves on it (woo we fought to end slavery, we must be an accepting people!). Although having an intelligent conversation down South was....hard to find. If i wanted to tick people off all i had to do was use large words in my speech. In fact the people whom i worked with down there regularly mentioned how they were going to implement a tax everytime i used a word greater than 7 letters. Obviously they were just kidding around and purposely acting like a stereotypical southerner.

Couldnt say i want to live in Alabama. Other than the decent folks....really had nothing that intices me. Internet was crap (and that is being nice), hate the weather, dont like Tornadoes/hurricanes, food is not very good and will likely give me a heart attack in a few years, and the wildlife scares me. Ill stick with the mean racist yankees. Although the super cheap gas was nice. 50 cents cheaper per gallon than NYS (freakin taxes)

Although I will say that the combination of Southern accent and ebonics is very difficult for me to understand sometimes. Either one alone can be difficult for a yankee to comprehend, both together and it is like trying to listen to a drunk Scot. An effort in futility.

Southerners kinda remind me of the British in some way. Sure they make jokes, but it is all (usually) in good fun. Although im sure both sides are reeling from disgust from being compared to one another.

I am from Alabama, and have lived here for the last 17 years, and I can say that political correctness does exist here, especially in the education system. Especially the Montgomery county school system, where it is hammered into us fairly early on, almost comparable to the Germans and their guilt complex with the Nazis. Also this state is still extremely segregated geographically, and gerrymandered to hell and back but that is a diffrent gripe, and there are entire towns and regions known for being almost exclusivly black (like the Tuskegee/Notasulga area)
Edit: I keep remembering stuff. As for racism, still alive and well my good sir, as I get stares when I am with my GF (who is black, whereas I am white) and not a day goes by that I don't hear someone complaining about "those damn niggers/Koreans" (Montgomery has a sizable Korean population thanks to a Hyundai plant )

adamsaccount:
because to be offended by that term she would have had to imply the she herself was retarded.

You're not very good at figuring out social interaction, are you? Because for people who do actually get it, we know that just because we don't apply terms to ourselves does not mean that there are not other people who have the ability to have other opinions and apply those terms to us.

Dijkstra:

adamsaccount:
because to be offended by that term she would have had to imply the she herself was retarded.

You're not very good at figuring out social interaction, are you? Because for people who do actually get it, we know that just because we don't apply terms to ourselves does not mean that there are not other people who have the ability to have other opinions and apply those terms to us.

Well, what i meant more was that she couldnt get him in trouble with a complaint. Sorry if it sounded a bit cold, I get she could have been offended but didnt say anything, the point was more that he said something very un politally correct and got away with it on a techinicality. Honestly i would probably have deleted that story now if it hadnt got quoted. Im not trying to revel in her upset or anything.Well maybe we can learn one thing at least, clumsy fuckers like me got no business trying tell people about political correctness lol

edit: also to clarify he didnt call her retarded, just refered to some shit that had happened as such and got overheard by this girl.

GunsmithKitten:

Ryotknife:
snip

I won't discount your experience, it's your own and I believe it.

But you're still kidding yourself if you think that we've got this problem mended up or that off color good natured jokes are the rule of the day instead of still being the exception in many areas. You said yourself you stuck to a black neighborhood in Alabama; do you really think your experience would have been the same if you were in a trailer park deep in eastern Kentucky/northeast Tennesseee/southwest Virginia? Everything you described about NYS easily applies to any number of communities up here, especially deep up the coal roads.

never meant to imply mended, just better than my experience up North with my experience in the city of Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Watertown, and (the town of) Potsdam. Granted, we hide our racism a hell of a lot better, but is that really any better? For people to constantly present a false face to everyone they meet and showing their true colors behind closed doors?

Im sorry, ive seen what extreme political correctness has done to my state and the cesspool it has forced the state to become. So yes, I see what i saw down south where people were more respectful and honest and i became jealous, as it as a darn sight better than anything ive seen up north.

That is not to say that nothing good has come from political correctness. On the contary it has done a lot of good IN THE PAST, but its usefulness, at least to the degree in which we are implementing it, is at an end as it is causing more problems than it is fixing now. Political correctness is now one of the biggest CAUSES of division along different lines. We need to cool it a little bit and stop the extreme focus on groups.

What political correctness has done for division is honestly no different than what the media has done with its excessive fascination with shooters like the ones in Colorado or Connecticut. Their focus is in fact encouraging more people to think along those lines.

As a side note: a lot of the people i met down there spit a lot, and i find that disgusting.

Lunar Shadow:

Ryotknife:

GunsmithKitten:

You might want to rethink that one. The next town over had a sign until 1981 that read "Nigger, dont' let the sun set on you in <Name withheld>".

A relative of mine made a sport of going through black neighborhoods with his friends, baring a giant watermelon from the back of his truck yelling "Here nigger nigger nigger!"

My grandfather wouldn't shut up about "New York jews" running the world.

My boss doesn't blink an eye about "damn slopes" or "niggers" either.

And don't you even try to get me started on how gay people are talked about here.

I don't know if you're from the south, jack, but I am, and one of the few things that upsets me more than people thinking we're ALL like those idiots is people like you who somehow think you're on a pedestal above the yankees in terms of bigotry and intolerence. It's a pedestal we don't deserve to be on, same as them.

I AM a yankee. Lived in New York state for over 25 years.

I spent a year or two in Alabama, the heart of the redneck stereotype (also banjos). This was in the middle part of Alabama, where there generally isnt any signs of civilization for miles around. Lived in a small town where i was basically the only white person (or at least it felt that way). I felt more at home with them than at my actual home in white neighborhood. Nearly everyone was nice and respectful. They didnt look at me in a way that suggests if they let their guard down for one second that ill try to slap them back into chains like so many ive met. Even many of the really nice folks ive met up north are quick to use the race card, but the ones down South never used it on me. Sure, they would occassionaly make an off color joke at my expense, but it was all in good fun and it was never malicious or personal.

Compare this with NYS where generally the blacks and whites want NOTHING to do with one another, and nearly every interaction is....tense. People treat each other with suspicion and are very rarely openly honest with strangers. Hell, in the past 10 years I never talked to any of my neighbors (and not because i dont want to) in 4 different households in that time period. Meanwhile while I was down there i would regularly have long conversations with complete strangers out of the blue.

im not saying southerners are better than yankees, but they are less racist from what ive seen which is ironic considering that yankees used to pride themselves on it (woo we fought to end slavery, we must be an accepting people!). Although having an intelligent conversation down South was....hard to find. If i wanted to tick people off all i had to do was use large words in my speech. In fact the people whom i worked with down there regularly mentioned how they were going to implement a tax everytime i used a word greater than 7 letters. Obviously they were just kidding around and purposely acting like a stereotypical southerner.

Couldnt say i want to live in Alabama. Other than the decent folks....really had nothing that intices me. Internet was crap (and that is being nice), hate the weather, dont like Tornadoes/hurricanes, food is not very good and will likely give me a heart attack in a few years, and the wildlife scares me. Ill stick with the mean racist yankees. Although the super cheap gas was nice. 50 cents cheaper per gallon than NYS (freakin taxes)

Although I will say that the combination of Southern accent and ebonics is very difficult for me to understand sometimes. Either one alone can be difficult for a yankee to comprehend, both together and it is like trying to listen to a drunk Scot. An effort in futility.

Southerners kinda remind me of the British in some way. Sure they make jokes, but it is all (usually) in good fun. Although im sure both sides are reeling from disgust from being compared to one another.

I am from Alabama, and have lived here for the last 17 years, and I can say that political correctness does exist here, especially in the education system. Especially the Montgomery county school system, where it is hammered into us fairly early on, almost comparable to the Germans and their guilt complex with the Nazis. Also this state is still extremely segregated geographically, and gerrymandered to hell and back but that is a diffrent gripe, and there are entire towns and regions known for being almost exclusivly black (like the Tuskegee/Notasulga area)
Edit: I keep remembering stuff. As for racism, still alive and well my good sir, as I get stares when I am with my GF (who is black, whereas I am white) and not a day goes by that I don't hear someone complaining about "those damn niggers/Koreans" (Montgomery has a sizable Korean population thanks to a Hyundai plant )

wonderful, so in a generation or two alabamans will be like newyorkers. Sigh, and mankind continues to get worse.

As for the black/white thing, yea we have that here up north too. Also asian/black is frowned upon as well. in that regard the two sides are virtually equal.

not sure how prevalent this is (i only have two examples), but apparently asian/white is looked down upon from the asian point of view sometimes. I know a few people who are dating asian women who came off the boat so to speak, and the asian parents didnt approve of them dating white men. Although apparently dating a white person is preferable to dating a black person, which those parents REALLY hate their daughters to date.

I remember passing by that Hydunia plant on....I-65 (I stay on that from Louisville to Greenville basically). Looked pretty impressive. Certainly beats the massive timber industry in terms of interest. Never thought I would see so many pine trees down south.....

figured that was mostly a Northern tree.

Also for the love of god, stop trying to get me to eat grits.

Ryotknife:

Lunar Shadow:

Ryotknife:

I AM a yankee. Lived in New York state for over 25 years.

I spent a year or two in Alabama, the heart of the redneck stereotype (also banjos). This was in the middle part of Alabama, where there generally isnt any signs of civilization for miles around. Lived in a small town where i was basically the only white person (or at least it felt that way). I felt more at home with them than at my actual home in white neighborhood. Nearly everyone was nice and respectful. They didnt look at me in a way that suggests if they let their guard down for one second that ill try to slap them back into chains like so many ive met. Even many of the really nice folks ive met up north are quick to use the race card, but the ones down South never used it on me. Sure, they would occassionaly make an off color joke at my expense, but it was all in good fun and it was never malicious or personal.

Compare this with NYS where generally the blacks and whites want NOTHING to do with one another, and nearly every interaction is....tense. People treat each other with suspicion and are very rarely openly honest with strangers. Hell, in the past 10 years I never talked to any of my neighbors (and not because i dont want to) in 4 different households in that time period. Meanwhile while I was down there i would regularly have long conversations with complete strangers out of the blue.

im not saying southerners are better than yankees, but they are less racist from what ive seen which is ironic considering that yankees used to pride themselves on it (woo we fought to end slavery, we must be an accepting people!). Although having an intelligent conversation down South was....hard to find. If i wanted to tick people off all i had to do was use large words in my speech. In fact the people whom i worked with down there regularly mentioned how they were going to implement a tax everytime i used a word greater than 7 letters. Obviously they were just kidding around and purposely acting like a stereotypical southerner.

Couldnt say i want to live in Alabama. Other than the decent folks....really had nothing that intices me. Internet was crap (and that is being nice), hate the weather, dont like Tornadoes/hurricanes, food is not very good and will likely give me a heart attack in a few years, and the wildlife scares me. Ill stick with the mean racist yankees. Although the super cheap gas was nice. 50 cents cheaper per gallon than NYS (freakin taxes)

Although I will say that the combination of Southern accent and ebonics is very difficult for me to understand sometimes. Either one alone can be difficult for a yankee to comprehend, both together and it is like trying to listen to a drunk Scot. An effort in futility.

Southerners kinda remind me of the British in some way. Sure they make jokes, but it is all (usually) in good fun. Although im sure both sides are reeling from disgust from being compared to one another.

I am from Alabama, and have lived here for the last 17 years, and I can say that political correctness does exist here, especially in the education system. Especially the Montgomery county school system, where it is hammered into us fairly early on, almost comparable to the Germans and their guilt complex with the Nazis. Also this state is still extremely segregated geographically, and gerrymandered to hell and back but that is a diffrent gripe, and there are entire towns and regions known for being almost exclusivly black (like the Tuskegee/Notasulga area)
Edit: I keep remembering stuff. As for racism, still alive and well my good sir, as I get stares when I am with my GF (who is black, whereas I am white) and not a day goes by that I don't hear someone complaining about "those damn niggers/Koreans" (Montgomery has a sizable Korean population thanks to a Hyundai plant )

wonderful, so in a generation or two alabamans will be like newyorkers. Sigh, and mankind continues to get worse.

As for the black/white thing, yea we have that here up north too. Also asian/black is frowned upon as well. in that regard the two sides are virtually equal.

not sure how prevalent this is (i only have two examples), but apparently asian/white is looked down upon from the asian point of view sometimes. I know a few people who are dating asian women who came off the boat so to speak, and the asian parents didnt approve of them dating white men. Although apparently dating a white person is preferable to dating a black person, which those parents REALLY hate their daughters to date.

I remember passing by that Hydunia plant on....I-65 (I stay on that from Louisville to Greenville basically). Looked pretty impressive. Certainly beats the massive timber industry in terms of interest. Never thought I would see so many pine trees down south.....

figured that was mostly a Northern tree.

Also for the love of god, stop trying to get me to eat grits.

Dude, this is an IMPROVMENT, not us getting worse

(Double post)

WAYYY to broad of a term to be put so black and white without some parameters. I said sometimes because, while I will NEVER say caucasian or African American instead of white and black there are some times where I do things that could be considered PC. Hypothetically lets say that I was talking to someone who was mentally retarded about their condition, I wouldn't say that they were retarded because of how much people use the word as a negative thing. I'll say someone was retarded when I'm talking about a person who was retarded to someone else but I wont say someone is retarded to their face, not out of fear but because of how people use the word out of context. Call it what you like, that's me.

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