Let's Not Ban RapeLay

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT
 

TheDoctor455:
Umm...
I think I already said something like this last year when this came up, but...

Its not even for sale outside of Japan, no other country or organization has the right to tell Japan what it should and should not ban.

When this story broke ONE YEAR AGO, I remember reading a piece about it on a women's rights site. And as much as I support women's rights and well, everyone's rights for that matter... I have to disagree with the crux of their argument for banning games like Rapelay. Their argument was more or less as follows: Games like Rapelay normalize violence and will lead to increased sex crime rates.

Umm... first off... that sounds a bit like "everyone who reads porn will commit rape at some point" argument. Which turned out to be false by the way. It has been psychologically proven that most rapists aren't after the sex, they're after power.

Secondly, the game itself isn't normalizing violence. In truth, women's-rights-organization's-site-name-I-can't-remember, you are normalizing sexual violence by saying that any game is doing so. Here's why: By saying that all it takes for me, you, anybody to go out and commit rape or murder or whatever horrible crime, is one game, you are normalizing violence. By saying that, you are telling every rapist, murderer or any other kind of violent criminal, that it isn't really their fault, that every heinous act they've committed is because they were exposed to one random piece of media at some point in their lives.

So no, we shouldn't ban it. And neither should Japan, but that's their call.

Why would a women's right group get upset anyway didn't a woman do the voice of the woman in the game making this not a rape game at all............. (since she had knowledge of what would happen or did they put her up to the mic and tell her to moan for no reason or money)

Sevre90210:
As long as it's only for sale in Japan. This is hard to justify, but at least Japanese society can deal with games like this.

Imagine what would happen if this game came out in the West?

1)You're going to hear a massive uproar from the media, which is bad publicity for all video games since we aren't exactly the most beloved form of entertainment to exist.

2)Communities will speak out and start spewing their own ideological crap, suddenly religions gain opinions on rape games.

3)It's a slim chance that this game will ever cause anyone to actually go out and fulfill a fantasy, but by god if it happens, even if it's only once, it will be, not a scar, but a laceration on the face of the video game industry.

So yeah, we live in a civilisation with a very...open voice..,unless you want that voice to be heard, I think it's best to put rape games back in the cupboard out of reach, not of the ignorant hands of children, but the ignorant hands of adults.

They did Tsuki Possession, Virgin Roster, Sensei 2 All released by G-Collections yet not a sound from anyone since none are rated by ESRB and not many people know of them

dannymc18:

Anyway, yes, I say a line should be drawn, and it should be drawn long before this game. I'm sure if it was a child porn game no one would defend it, why should this be any different.

Sir not only would i defend it i would defend it to death. for i believe all censorship within the content of a game is wrong.

Silva:
Wait a second. At least in my country, the kid will still play the game. An adult, by enforcement if not by law, only has to be present while buying the game. That could be ANY adult, and whatever happens at home once the game is bought is likely to differ. So what you're saying is just not true for Australia, and last I checked the rules regarding MA15+ games were the same here as in America. Maybe you're right for Canada, though.

First of all, on what do you base the statement "the kid will play the game?" I'm quoting from consecutive government studies conclusively demonstrating that a consistent rating system, properly popularized and enforced, is an effective method of controlling access to games. Saying "they'll play them anyway" doesn't carry a lot of weight.

The biggest problem with Australia, which I assume is where you're from, isn't games like RapeLay but the lack of a functional rating system. And your suggestion that the state should have a greater say in the child-rearing process than the parent is more than a little disturbing.

BlueHighwind:
You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

So Cat Girl Alliance , which has a futanari girl wanting to turn a classmate into a sex slave and she use's you the main character to do so, has no value for playing...... What about the story, her motive, what happens at the end of the game. the art and writing mean nothing to you or do you just deny them.

Gamegodtre:

TheDoctor455:
Umm...
I think I already said something like this last year when this came up, but...

Its not even for sale outside of Japan, no other country or organization has the right to tell Japan what it should and should not ban.

When this story broke ONE YEAR AGO, I remember reading a piece about it on a women's rights site. And as much as I support women's rights and well, everyone's rights for that matter... I have to disagree with the crux of their argument for banning games like Rapelay. Their argument was more or less as follows: Games like Rapelay normalize violence and will lead to increased sex crime rates.

Umm... first off... that sounds a bit like "everyone who reads porn will commit rape at some point" argument. Which turned out to be false by the way. It has been psychologically proven that most rapists aren't after the sex, they're after power.

Secondly, the game itself isn't normalizing violence. In truth, women's-rights-organization's-site-name-I-can't-remember, you are normalizing sexual violence by saying that any game is doing so. Here's why: By saying that all it takes for me, you, anybody to go out and commit rape or murder or whatever horrible crime, is one game, you are normalizing violence. By saying that, you are telling every rapist, murderer or any other kind of violent criminal, that it isn't really their fault, that every heinous act they've committed is because they were exposed to one random piece of media at some point in their lives.

So no, we shouldn't ban it. And neither should Japan, but that's their call.

Why would a women's right group get upset anyway didn't a woman do the voice of the woman in the game making this not a rape game at all............. (since she had knowledge of what would happen or did they put her up to the mic and tell her to moan for no reason or money)

From what I remember of the article from that site, their complaint was something along the lines of "games like Rapelay devalue women by normalizing sexual violence against women".
Read my original post for why I don't agree with that.

Ok. It's mentioned at CNN second time, I think I must buy this game. Honestly, I've never liked such things but I think I should give it a try just to know what's it about. Well, now I have to find an online store that sells the damn thing...

I'm not offended by this game at all. It may make me feel sick to my stomach, but I don't feel insulted. Because it isn't rape; You can't rape virtual hentai girls programmed by some sleazy coder to carry out your fantasy. When I run over a hooker in Grand theft auto, it isn't murder. When I kick a chicken in fable, it isn't animal abuse. So why is this any different? I have been doing all kinds of illegal and immoral shit in video games for years and I have not been desensitized enough to actually harm an animal or run down a prostitute, I doubt a game like rapeplay has any different effect. It's just a fantasy, as perverted as it may be, and you shouldn't ban a game for letting weirdos indulge it. Besides, they obviously already had the fantasy in their heads to begin with, it's not like this game came around and dirty thoughts about rape magically entered everybody's minds. I'd rather these sickos carry out their fantasy on virtual girls than real live human beings, where it actually would be considered rape.

BlueHighwind:
How about "Jeffrey Dahmer" the video game?

Ever played Manhunt?

Father Time:

BlueHighwind:
You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

Hey nice bullshit argument let me try something

"Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to mow down innocent civilians with a machine gun or grenades.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that murder is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A murder video game can only make its players worse people in the long run."

Now if I didn't know any better I could've sworn this was an argument that came from Jack Thompson or Hillary Clinton or any of the other trash talking slime that want to ban games like Grand Theft Auto.

And what makes you think that murder is an acceptable thing to simulate in video games either? You all seem to take it for granted that this is all perfectly fine. It probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but does it have any good ones other than immediate gratification of baser impulses?

One can argue that "Grant Theft Auto"'s true purpose is actually to be lawless fantasy. The whole point of the game is to take what you want, do what you want, and be free of every legal authority our society imposes. Typically every person you meet in those games is just as correct and uncaring for the law as you are, if not more so. Nobody is ever portrayed as innocent in the world of GTA, its just scumbags killing scumbags. Notice by the way, that in not a single GTA will you ever find a single child on the streets. Imagine if they did? It isn't just murder for murder's own sake.

"RapeLay" is rape for rape's own sake. There is no justification other than "I'm a man, I want to have sex, and I don't care what the woman has to say. She's going to be slave just because I have a penis." In what universe are thoughts like these ever acceptable? This might come from a different culture, but even in Japan thoughts like this cannot be considered proper. I hate to imagine in what society rape is considered "perfectly fine".

By the way, just because you do not agree with Hilary Clinton or any other politician's views on violent video games, it doesn't make them "trash-talking slime". Most likely they truly believe that removing games like GTA will serve society and make it a better place. Is there something wrong with that motivation? Maybe you think that Clinton isn't being sincere in her activism, I don't know.

PS: Can you please not call my argument "bullshit"? I do not appreciate being insulted on this forum when all I wanted was to have a frank discussion over this issue.

John Funk:

rekabdarb:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

Reported rape, anyway.

Thats all we can go on. what you just said is the equivalent of saying while japan has one of the lowest murder rates recorded of any nation using this old chart(1998-2000):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
reported murders anyway. what are you a Fox News reporter.

Why are they against this one freaking game? there are hundreds of videos of anime on the web - I'm sure - depicting rape in a far worse fashion, so why is everyone obsessing about this 4 year old game?

It's like an army of people with rocket launchers are trying to shoot you, and you attack the man with a pitchfork. ('scuse my awful analagy).

I live in Japan and rape games are not that prevalent. Of course you will read all kinds of anecdotal reports but they are just as full of hyperbole as tales of underwear dispensers. If you go to where these things are sold, then you will find them in abundance. I have seen thousands of battery, cigarette and drink dispensers, but only ONE (count 'em) underwear dispenser, and it was next a 'certain kind of shop'.

In much the same way, rape games are 'a big industry for Japan' like .. well .. something quite exaggerated and not entirely true. Erotic and romance games are indeed a big industry but the hardcore variations make up for much less than outside sources like CNN would have you believe. I read the Japanese news and that is where I get this information, by the way.

The whole debarcle is Western scaremongering. It happened with anime - remember back when 'all anime' was apparently perverted and sick, and always exactly like Urotsukidoji? That's right - it never was. That idea was more a reflection of what Western audiences were attracted to. Anime output in Japan is still by far, most heavily founded on non-offensive products.

SO for adult games, Western audiences, perhaps fueled by fetishistic need for more 'weird Japanese stuff', appear to lack much interest in the harmless and actually entertaining, interactive novels and dating sims, and instead go for the minority of hardcore titles. It is very sad that a 'debate' is happening on this 'problem' when many of the participants lack the relevant facts.

And it makes me wonder if they know about all the nasty adult videos produced in Western countries, that feature misogyny as fetish. Should these be banned too? Sex therapists will tell you that rape and abuse fantasies do not imply a desire to rape or abuse in reality. This is the same way that the violent fantasies we dream (which are quite accepted in Western society) do not imply a real desire to do violence.

Rape and abuse in adult fantasies and entertainment reflect a desire to control or to be controlled. It isn't about 'hate' and maliciousness, or cruelty (though you can't account for all users and viewers) - it is fantasy that fills emotional needs and wants, and not physical, criminal ones.

Dark Angel Warlord:

Delock:
I'm violently anti-censorship due to the fact that I believe that people should have the freedom to express themselves however they please (so long as they aren't harming others... unless those people are into that sort of thing), so it's no surprise that I'm against banning Rapelay. Sure I'm not going to go buy it, but I believe that if a person who is mature enough to handle it wants to, then they should be allowed to. Hell, if you banned everything with rape in it, the Bible would be out of store instantly (you know that story about Joseph and the multicolored coat that has been made into several movies, some of which are for kids? Guess what, his sister was raped, making those brothers of his form a plan to kill the offender and his family when they asked for her to be married to him knowing that she couldn't refuse now. Their method? Agree if his family were circumsized. They did that, and the brother rode through and killed them as they tried to recover. Yeah, and you teach kids the story that comes after that without any problems) as would several other classic pieces of literature. And then we know this wouldn't end. Next would be any games with too much violence (with a definition of too much becoming more and more broadly).

yeah but the bible is not videogames plus it was written thousands of years ago and who knows who editted what over the years and put in what they wanted in

we are talking about RAPE
would u like to know some sicko is playing a virutal game where he downloads a photo of your mom or sister or girlfriend onto the game and can virual rape her and terrorize her>?? thats sick and twisted

i'd say thank you for not doing it to her in real life

Dark Angel Warlord:

Altorin:

Dark Angel Warlord:

Delock:
I'm violently anti-censorship due to the fact that I believe that people should have the freedom to express themselves however they please (so long as they aren't harming others... unless those people are into that sort of thing), so it's no surprise that I'm against banning Rapelay. Sure I'm not going to go buy it, but I believe that if a person who is mature enough to handle it wants to, then they should be allowed to. Hell, if you banned everything with rape in it, the Bible would be out of store instantly (you know that story about Joseph and the multicolored coat that has been made into several movies, some of which are for kids? Guess what, his sister was raped, making those brothers of his form a plan to kill the offender and his family when they asked for her to be married to him knowing that she couldn't refuse now. Their method? Agree if his family were circumsized. They did that, and the brother rode through and killed them as they tried to recover. Yeah, and you teach kids the story that comes after that without any problems) as would several other classic pieces of literature. And then we know this wouldn't end. Next would be any games with too much violence (with a definition of too much becoming more and more broadly).

yeah but the bible is not videogames plus it was written thousands of years ago and who knows who editted what over the years and put in what they wanted in

we are talking about RAPE
would u like to know some sicko is playing a virutal game where he downloads a photo of your mom or sister or girlfriend onto the game and can virual rape her and terrorize her>?? thats sick and twisted

as long as he's not ACTUALLY raping people, I say let him do what he wants.

yeah but what if someone plays rape videogame then goes out and rapes someone and does what he does to them in the game

like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

sir you stated that you play Violent games so whats stopping you from snapping and killing a person, by gun, sword, or fist. the same thing that stops them, so until you snap please don't use that as a excuse, and please don't snap just to prove a point.

Gamegodtre:

i'd say thank you for not doing it to her in real life

And I'd ask him how he'd feel if someone played a game where he or she downloaded a photo of his mum or sisterin the game and virtually murdered her.

Yes, as he said, we are 'talking about RAPE', but I think it is important to re-evaluate our own accepted and PERVASIVE gaming genres (not fringe ones from outside, like Rapelay), and how desensitised we have become to their content.

Dark Angel Warlord:
yeah but all it takes is one bible thumping congressman or woman or senator to scream loud enough and u will see censorship looke what games like mortal kombat did for videogames now they are rated but are they enforced yeah right ive seen 10 year olds buy violent videogames and the shop keeper dont care its all about the green backs

Dark Angel Warlord:
I WANT TO ASK THIS DONT FLAME ME OKAY
But if it was a rape a child game would there even be any arguement or discussing in favor of why this game should be allowed?

cuz im telling you rape games are the begining we will see child molesting games next

when we do we draw the line?

As a Otaku i must say the following.
ok first qoute:
the adult games can't even be sold in any normal store were kids can get into. Since all normal stores Ban A rated games
Second Quote:
I know of a few of them made before 2003 your acting as if this is new, its not. All Otaku know of them

to ban something just on your Prejudice and hatred for the subject matter alone is plain retarded and should not be accepted, since if you ban rape games i say ban the books movies and other mediums of the sort.

Also to speak of another countrys culture as if you should dictate what they should do is insane, no artist let alone Otaku would or could sit by while you badmouth his freedom of expression and the right to choice what he or she wants to watch or play.

On a side note:
all of Japans porn is already censored in the form of mosaic censoring.

on another side note:
sorry if this seems like im picking on you but i'm willing to bet you have never even played any game that has been released in the US that's A rated or Adult only rated this isn't the first rape game and to be frank its a very bad one, Virgin Roster is a more abhorrent (scene wise) one then this but its not in 3d and actually has a decent story going for it(although it never explains your characters reason (at least i don't remember there being one i played this 3 years ago and wasn't going to go through the 8+hours to beat it again with all the endings)it doesn't make a flaw in the story) and has been released in the US were it never even made the news.

Final Side Notes:
Some Quotes

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.
Abraham Lincoln

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom.
Clarence Darrow

Dark Angel Warlord:

Andy Chalk:

Dark Angel Warlord:
like example
someone is stalking jennifer
he cant have her he dont have courage to ask her out
so he photographs her and downloads her image to the game where he rapes her in the game
then he snaps one day and cant tell fantasy from reality and goes and rapes jennifer in real life

So you're saying that rape-themed games are worse than rape-themed books and rape-themed movies?

movies are rated and 90% of the time they are enforced games are not

and movies are not interactive

trust me all it will take is a few bible thumping congress or sentors and u will see censorship like u wouldnt belive

just a side note were is your evidence outside of your own opinion?

I agree 100% with this article. I was just having this discussion myself yesterday on another forum, and I was one of the few people in the "Yes, this game is all kinds of messed up to be sure, but that doesn't give you the right to ban it." camp. Obviously, not too many people liked me for that one (a few people posted the same thoughts as I did, but to most I was an evil bastard).

But yeah, it's very nice to see that there are more than just 2-3 people out there that can understand "I think this game is disgusting and I wouldn't play it, but it shouldn't be banned" without ignoring the entire first part and calling you a rape supporter.

So, a game that's been out for four years without making a splash is prompting an immense rage from the papers. The absurdly low rape conviction rate isn't. One is very unlikely to do anything, the other is a matter of tens of thousands of lives ruined yearly. Priorities, anyone?

I'll disagree with folks a bit. I am not for banning anything, but I am for restrictions. Software being one of the easiest items to get access to beyond the age restriction. I think we are on a bit of a slippery slope when it comes to how far we can go. Personally, I don't see why people would want to play the game or any game like it. Maybe there are some seriously frustrated people out there. I don't have any good answers, but the gaming company got so much free publicity, they are laughing all the way to the Bank.. I think controversial items do a lot better if you ignore them.

I think the concept of the game is sick and twisted, but unfortunately I'd have to defend the creators' right to make it, and ADULTS rights to play it.

I don't care how "silly" people say that game, itself, is, kids shouldn't be playing it, no matter how "adult" they might think they are.

So no, no banning.

Ironically I read somewhere that japan has some of the lowest rape rates in the world....

UberNoodle:
I live in Japan and rape games are not that prevalent. Of course you will read all kinds of anecdotal reports but they are just as full of hyperbole as tales of underwear dispensers. If you go to where these things are sold, then you will find them in abundance. I have seen thousands of battery, cigarette and drink dispensers, but only ONE (count 'em) underwear dispenser, and it was next a 'certain kind of shop'.

In much the same way, rape games are 'a big industry for Japan' like .. well .. something quite exaggerated and not entirely true. Erotic and romance games are indeed a big industry but the hardcore variations make up for much less than outside sources like CNN would have you believe. I read the Japanese news and that is where I get this information, by the way.

The whole debarcle is Western scaremongering. It happened with anime - remember back when 'all anime' was apparently perverted and sick, and always exactly like Urotsukidoji? That's right - it never was. That idea was more a reflection of what Western audiences were attracted to. Anime output in Japan is still by far, most heavily founded on non-offensive products.

SO for adult games, Western audiences, perhaps fueled by fetishistic need for more 'weird Japanese stuff', appear to lack much interest in the harmless and actually entertaining, interactive novels and dating sims, and instead go for the minority of hardcore titles. It is very sad that a 'debate' is happening on this 'problem' when many of the participants lack the relevant facts.

And it makes me wonder if they know about all the nasty adult videos produced in Western countries, that feature misogyny as fetish. Should these be banned too? Sex therapists will tell you that rape and abuse fantasies do not imply a desire to rape or abuse in reality. This is the same way that the violent fantasies we dream (which are quite accepted in Western society) do not imply a real desire to do violence.

Rape and abuse in adult fantasies and entertainment reflect a desire to control or to be controlled. It isn't about 'hate' and maliciousness, or cruelty (though you can't account for all users and viewers) - it is fantasy that fills emotional needs and wants, and not physical, criminal ones.

Entire thing here QFT. I also live in Japan and not once have I seen an underwear dispenser either. Although these types of games are legal in Japan, that does not mean that they're common, or popular, or even that most people don't have a problem with the content. I can't think of one Japanese person I know who would even think of playing Rapelay at all, much less buying it. When it comes to anime, the average perception I get around here is that it's a kids' thing, and you actually have to search for a while to find an anime that isn't directed at children or families. Most of the popular mainstream anime in America (the ones that used to run on Adult Swim, et al.) are seen as being for tweens and teenagers here. This includes Bleach, Shin-chan, FMA, and so on. The only one I have found any reference to at all over here that would be aimed at adults is Evangelion, which is still really popular here, and the only anime aimed at adults that people seem to know here, and it's probably mainly because there's a hugely popular Evangelion pachi-slot game. Manga aimed at adults, and by that I mean mature themes and not sexual content, is much easier to find, and that is in fact pretty common at least where I live out in the Japanese boonies. If people want "Adult Content", you have to go to an adult bookstore to get it, just like in the West.

In fact, get this: it's actually probably harder to buy a 18+ rated video game in Japan than it is in America. The video game stores I go to usually have 18+ rated games (for violence, like MadWorld, Assassin's Creed, and so on) under lock and key so kids can't even look at the box, and certainly can't buy the game. At one store, if I didn't look real closely, I wouldn't have noticed that they even sold those games there.

Seriously, when will people learn that all of Japan is not like Akihabara?

I agree.. A quote I have used often..

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it".

If we ban a game because it contains rape, then lets ban all the games that involve murder, reckless driving, animal cruelty (pokemon), illegal wars, speeding, etc.

Can't say I'd want to play a rape game, not while the internet is full of free porn, but I don't see why it should be censored on the grounds of its portraying something against the law.

BlueHighwind:

Father Time:

BlueHighwind:
You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

Hey nice bullshit argument let me try something

"Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to mow down innocent civilians with a machine gun or grenades.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that murder is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A murder video game can only make its players worse people in the long run."

Now if I didn't know any better I could've sworn this was an argument that came from Jack Thompson or Hillary Clinton or any of the other trash talking slime that want to ban games like Grand Theft Auto.

And what makes you think that murder is an acceptable thing to simulate in video games either?

Acceptable by who's standards? Well let's see I think anything is acceptable in a video game as long it doesn't violate copyright or something like that because video games aren't real. Murder meanwhile has been in our entertainment for eons, going back to Shakespeare and even further back to Ancient Greek plays.

BlueHighwind:

You all seem to take it for granted that this is all perfectly fine. It probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but does it have any good ones other than immediate gratification of baser impulses?

Why does it need to have good effects why can't it be neutral. Although if it has no adverse effects what the hell do you care?

BlueHighwind:

One can argue that "Grant Theft Auto"'s true purpose is actually to be lawless fantasy. The whole point of the game is to take what you want, do what you want, and be free of every legal authority our society imposes.

Except for the cops, the FBI and the army.

BlueHighwind:

Typically every person you meet in those games is just as correct and uncaring for the law as you are, if not more so. Nobody is ever portrayed as innocent in the world of GTA, its just scumbags killing scumbags.

All the civilians are innocent.

BlueHighwind:

"RapeLay" is rape for rape's own sake. There is no justification other than "I'm a man, I want to have sex, and I don't care what the woman has to say. She's going to be slave just because I have a penis." In what universe are thoughts like these ever acceptable?

Hopefully in every universe because those thoughts are far far less disgusting or dangerous than the concept of thought crime.

BlueHighwind:

This might come from a different culture, but even in Japan thoughts like this cannot be considered proper. I hate to imagine in what society rape is considered "perfectly fine".

Not in most places but there's a big difference between daydreaming about your boss being seriously hurt and actually doing something.

BlueHighwind:

By the way, just because you do not agree with Hilary Clinton or any other politician's views on violent video games, it doesn't make them "trash-talking slime". Most likely they truly believe that removing games like GTA will serve society and make it a better place. Is there something wrong with that motivation? Maybe you think that Clinton isn't being sincere in her activism, I don't know.

Ok that was hyperbole but she said we need to treat video games the same way we treat alcohol so she's either insane or a vote whore.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-july-19-2005/black---back-in-black---pet-causes

(around 1:12)

BlueHighwind:

Father Time:

BlueHighwind:
You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

Hey nice bullshit argument let me try something

"Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to mow down innocent civilians with a machine gun or grenades.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that murder is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A murder video game can only make its players worse people in the long run."

Now if I didn't know any better I could've sworn this was an argument that came from Jack Thompson or Hillary Clinton or any of the other trash talking slime that want to ban games like Grand Theft Auto.

And what makes you think that murder is an acceptable thing to simulate in video games either? You all seem to take it for granted that this is all perfectly fine. It probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but does it have any good ones other than immediate gratification of baser impulses?

One can argue that "Grant Theft Auto"'s true purpose is actually to be lawless fantasy. The whole point of the game is to take what you want, do what you want, and be free of every legal authority our society imposes. Typically every person you meet in those games is just as correct and uncaring for the law as you are, if not more so. Nobody is ever portrayed as innocent in the world of GTA, its just scumbags killing scumbags. Notice by the way, that in not a single GTA will you ever find a single child on the streets. Imagine if they did? It isn't just murder for murder's own sake.

"RapeLay" is rape for rape's own sake. There is no justification other than "I'm a man, I want to have sex, and I don't care what the woman has to say. She's going to be slave just because I have a penis." In what universe are thoughts like these ever acceptable? This might come from a different culture, but even in Japan thoughts like this cannot be considered proper. I hate to imagine in what society rape is considered "perfectly fine".

By the way, just because you do not agree with Hilary Clinton or any other politician's views on violent video games, it doesn't make them "trash-talking slime". Most likely they truly believe that removing games like GTA will serve society and make it a better place. Is there something wrong with that motivation? Maybe you think that Clinton isn't being sincere in her activism, I don't know.

PS: Can you please not call my argument "bullshit"? I do not appreciate being insulted on this forum when all I wanted was to have a frank discussion over this issue.

The moral implications of rapelay are irrelevant.

Sure, its sick and twisted. But its an adult game and adults should be allowed to chose for themselves what kind of games they want to buy. The government should not chose for me. Children should not (and if properly parented will not) play these games. I can parent my kids, don't need the governments help there either.

Besides that, you want to bad these games because they "might" have an adverse effect on people? You wanna ban drugs, alcohol, smoking, driving, walking thru town after hours, exercise, sugary snack foods, kitchen knives, sharp sticks? All those things "might" cause harm to someone, does the government decide to wrap everything in bubble wrap or do we act like responsible people and make mature choices about the content we do or do not want to indulge in?

Well?

Gamegodtre:

John Funk:

rekabdarb:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

Reported rape, anyway.

Thats all we can go on. what you just said is the equivalent of saying while japan has one of the lowest murder rates recorded of any nation using this old chart(1998-2000):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
reported murders anyway. what are you a Fox News reporter.

What? Are you actually serious?

They're not the same thing at all. For one, rape is a crime you can ONLY know about if it's reported - if someone is dead, it tends to be found out very, very quickly. Furthermore, there's no *shame* associated with murder like there is rape, particularly when it involves a very patriarchal society where honor and saving face are a huge part of the culture.

Murder doesn't HAVE to be reported. Rape does.

JaredXE:
I am a strict constitutionalist, with a heavy emphasis on the First Amendment. I don't believe ANY form of speech or non-violent expression(and a rape GAME is not violent) should be banned or censored. It's all about personal responsibility folks. If everyone had it, then we wouldn't be discussing this, but because some people can't wrap their minds around the concept, we get 'scandals' like this.

Utter bullshit.

EDIT: DOH! First amendment, not second. I r a idjit.

I totally agree with this post. The game was put out for adults to play not kids the internet is a wide open expanse now where you can find anything. Simply banning one thing we consider bad will not keep it out of hands of people, in fact it makes most people want to play it more to see what it is about. For us to ban this game we should ban all GTA's, Saints Row, 50 Cent, most movies out now, television, books, access to internet, hell they could even ban Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 cause of the airport stage when you are with Makarov. All the things stated above in some way or another can have what they are complaining about if they are really so scared of it they might as well ban the porn market altogether.

Another thing to look at is who was the main group fighting against this game. Are the people opposing this game even from the country it was developed in? I am not saying that these people are wrong only that this game was never intended to be sold on store shelves anywhere except for Japan, yet we see little to no complaints or riots against this game from them. The group that is strongly opposing it is located in the US where the game was not supposed to end up. We must sit and look at this is this wrong because we do not have the same culture as Japan or simply because we are seeking something to appose.

This might just seem I am grasping for straws but can they not find anything to talk about there is so much going on in the world today to talk about yet the media only seems to focus on something that is not actually causing problems for anyone. I am not defending this game only simply stating to ban this we really have to take a step back and ask if we ban this should we start banning similar items. Our media and the people around us should not control the populous rather the people should control the media and the opinions of what is right or what is wrong.

Oh in response to this guys quote we must really look to see who is at fault if we are going to place any. As a worker in a Video Game store I commonly see parents who buy their 10 year old's games like GTA or Call of Duty. I always ask who it is for and tell them why it is bad even going so far as to point out the esrb rating on the back of the box telling the rating and why it is that rating. Yet when they go home and the kid plays it in front of the parent they come back a complain to me about me selling the game, the only thing I can think to say is I told you why it is this rating. No matter what the reason for the kids who do the wrong thing or people who break the law people refuse to look at themselves and say this is my fault. People are to quick to blame something for the wrong reason rather than trying to correct themselves who originally allowed the problem or the incident to happen. Not saying that everyone is like this I have met people who know they shouldn't let their kids or family play these games or see those movies or watch those tv shows the step in and prevent it from happening thus taking the initiative.

Sorry for the long rant if anyone wants to discuss further continue to post.

"The government does not control the people the people control the government."

Funny isn't it violence is A-Okay but anything sexual is bad (in games not the real world)...I don't think either in video games (or any other media) is going to have any effect on a mentally healthy individual. Obviously people with mental health issues are a separate problem.

John Funk:

Gamegodtre:

John Funk:

rekabdarb:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

Reported rape, anyway.

Thats all we can go on. what you just said is the equivalent of saying while japan has one of the lowest murder rates recorded of any nation using this old chart(1998-2000):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
reported murders anyway. what are you a Fox News reporter.

What? Are you actually serious?

They're not the same thing at all. For one, rape is a crime you can ONLY know about if it's reported - if someone is dead, it tends to be found out very, very quickly. Furthermore, there's no *shame* associated with murder like there is rape, particularly when it involves a very patriarchal society where honor and saving face are a huge part of the culture.

Murder doesn't HAVE to be reported. Rape does.

i think you missed my point entirely(also murders can be covered up, or in mass numbers under determined but im getting way off point)(also "Murder doesn't HAVE to be reported" is kinda wrong as well or there would be no official murders by the police but i digress)
i'm saying we only have the reported numbers to go on here not imaginary figures that can be made up by anyone(i mean who are you Stephen Colbert who has made up words on his show like Truthiness). yes my example was a bit much, but to say, and claim, that the amount of unreported rape is even substantial, you would need to have some evidence on hand that could back up your assertion.

Definitely not the way to say a certain game is bad.

Gamegodtre:

John Funk:

Gamegodtre:

John Funk:

rekabdarb:

sinclose:

John Funk:

sinclose:
Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

Reported rape, anyway.

Thats all we can go on. what you just said is the equivalent of saying while japan has one of the lowest murder rates recorded of any nation using this old chart(1998-2000):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
reported murders anyway. what are you a Fox News reporter.

What? Are you actually serious?

They're not the same thing at all. For one, rape is a crime you can ONLY know about if it's reported - if someone is dead, it tends to be found out very, very quickly. Furthermore, there's no *shame* associated with murder like there is rape, particularly when it involves a very patriarchal society where honor and saving face are a huge part of the culture.

Murder doesn't HAVE to be reported. Rape does.

i think you missed my point entirely(also murders can be covered up, or in mass numbers under determined but im getting way off point)(also "Murder doesn't HAVE to be reported" is kinda wrong as well or there would be no official murders by the police but i digress)
i'm saying we only have the reported numbers to go on here not imaginary figures that can be made up by anyone(i mean who are you Stephen Colbert who has made up words on his show like Truthiness). yes my example was a bit much, but to say, and claim, that the amount of unreported rape is even substantial, you would need to have some evidence on hand that could back up your assertion.

hate to tell you Funk (I'm aware I didn't quote funk, read on), the guy's got at least a premise of a valid point.

Furburt:
Has anyone here ever played Rapelay?

I have. My and mah buddies decided it would be good for a laugh to download it and play it. And it was, that game is impossible to take seriously. Not to mention that the graphics are so basic that the...organs clip through each other in the most ludicrous of ways, it's not even that graphic, nowhere near how bad the media portrays it. Obviously, it's still horrible in places, but it's hardly the bringer of the end times.

And yes, I think it shouldn't be banned. As long as they have proper safeguards so they can't get into childrens hands (although they'd probably find it as amusing as I did) then any consenting adult should be allowed to buy it, should they so wish. Freedom to choose, and all that.

That way, we can gloss over what is really at its heart quite a poor, silly game and promote the good ones.

Organs clipping through each other?

Are you saying that they actually rendered the organs inside of the bodies in that game? What the hell is the point of that? Is there ever a time when you get to see a woman's exposed liver in the game or something?

EDIT: Oh, you mean the, in the, nvm, lol

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here