On Kinect and PlayStation Move

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MikeTheElf:
4. Find a psychology textbook and look at human perception, unless you're one of those people who denounce psychology as a pseudoscience, that's scientific proof. Unlike what you think, there is backing to my arguments, and I request that you kindly quit denoucning me as a troll. I used the magpie as my example because it was the first animal which came to mind that epitomises what I was describing.

3. Just because you read books doesn't make you literate.
a)I could have a library filled with children's books. Tt's still a massive library.
b)Some people don't learn from reading. A few of my friends read more books than most people and still don't grasp fully the written English language; they consistently mistake homophones, construct sentences incorrectly, etc.. If you consider anything less than basic mastery 'literacy,' then our subjective definitions again clash.
c)Some people like reading, even if the books are crap. My mom reads gratuitous amounts of romance novels, and lately hasn't read anything considered meritous. My mom has an extensive library of romance novels, but does that make her the most learned person in her house?

2. My point was that casual gamers don't necessarily care about how a game plays, and if it's considered a good game or not. More oft than not, casual gamers formulate their own opinions on certain video games, and play them regardless of popular belief. If you walk into a video game store, and want to buy a bunch of games, do you pick from the 'good' games which are still priced at slightly less than when first released, or do you pick a dozen 'not-so-good' games from the shelf if it'll run you the same amount as getting the one good game and take up 12x more of your time? Ultimately, casual gamers opinions fluctuate wildly, which is what I was getting at.

As for my use of the word 'biggest,' I justify it with market data stating that the Wii vastly outsold PS3 and 360 combined. It's a gimmick machine. Again, I'm not going to bother looking for the data, you can go look it up if you really don't trust me, which I imagine you don't. If you'll trust my memory, the Wii had somewhere around 12m sales worldwide whereas 360 and PS3 combined was under 7m.

1. Fine, you caught me. I didn't go to college for a bullshit degree which I need to extrapolate data from charts (a skill learned in primary school), and apply it to human behaviour (a skill learned in an introductory Psychology course, which I've taken).

4. i'm not denouncing psychology in any way. i was brought up with it as both my parents are clinical psychologists. and no, that's still not what is considered to be scientific proof by neither the scientific community / academics nor the legal system in any country. if you cannot present hard evidence for your claim, your claim is void. there is no backing to these arguments, because you haven't provided hard evidence.

3. it doesn't matter what kind of books they are. if you have a library of children's books, then you are, by use, literate in children's literature. if you have a library of games, then you are, by use, literate in games.

and here again you use a weak argumentation. how do you know how many books people on average read? even if you went around and asked, you'd still not get a statistically accurate answer, because your local demographic is too small. so our definitions do not clash, but again you try to bullshit your way through by undermining my point. to your question: it makes her the most learned person on romance novels. read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy (see, that's hard evidence right there)

2. here you use subjectivity again. casual players do not care if a game is good or not? do any players? do all players? how do you know? i think all player eventually start formulating opinions on games, much as every person starts formulating opinions as they mature; whether or not the games are popular and whether or not the players are casual. but still, you do not have a demographic that supports your claim, so there's still no hold to this argument.

don't call it the biggest then, just say it sold the most.

1. so you think your introductory psychology class is going to tell you something about market statistics and predictions? yeah, good luck with that.

don't denounce something you could learn from. you didn't go to college to get a business degree, but i doubt you have any degree what so ever (it shows on your writing and argumentation). i don't have a degree in business myself, but i can see the usefulness of people that do have one (i'm a B.Sc. in computer science myself).

either way, point 1 is irrelevant since you concede the point. i'm just waiting for you to concede the rest.

MikeTheElf:
As I've stated: they just need to grab attention long enough for the target audience to purchase them; it doesn't have to be a successful object. Case and point: Laserdisc. For those of you who don't know what it is, I'll save you a wikipedia trip. It's the first attempt at DVD. It's a disc the size of a record, and it too flopped horrendously. Because of its shiny appearance, schools across America purchased them left and right, because of its array of educational videos.

1- VHS outsold DVD because no one had DVD players, due to their expense. Same thing with Bluray. As soon as the technology becomes cheaper, people jump on it.

2- The Wii is the best-selling console because it is a gimmick.

3- You pointed out that both Wii and 360 use DVD. Despite the fact that only one current-gen console uses Bluray, I consider Bluray a success, because it hasn't died out yet. HDDVD was jumped over (similar to Laserdisc), and now everything will be released on DVD and Bluray, until DVD cycles out.

4- What sort of television do you think most people play video games on? I'm using a craptastic CRT circa 1995, and it is absolutely horrendous for gaming. The resolution on it is so ridiculously bad for current-gen games. You know why? Because current-gen games are designed to be graphical (except for those for the Wii). I can't figure out what is going on in half of my PS2 games, let alone Assassin's Creed (Hell, Lego Harry Potter is difficult to figure out; that's how bad my television set is). Most 'gamers' use HDMI output, massive Plasma, LCD or LED LCD sets, etc..

You're shifting the goalposts. New and shiny either works or it doesn't. You can't retroactively justify how it works sometimes despite cost and not others, especially in the same market.

1- False. DVD technology had come down to affordable before they killed the format, and the format continued to dominate

2- That goalpost shifting I mentioned prior. The Wii disproves the notion of new and shiny, so you try and force another solution.

3- That's a pretty low bar for success, especially when BD alone can barely beat a dead format. A format that's been dead for nearly a decade now, I must add. Laserdisc, of course, lasted longer than BD has been a format, so it's patently absurd to mark one as a success for simply not dying when panning the other one as being "passed over." I'm not even talking niche markets, where LD survived well into the 90s. Hell, wikipedia cites them as being released alongside DVD as late as 2001. You brought it up, not me. You also oversimplified the use of LD in schools, but that's not really pertinent.

4- I used a CRT until a year ago. Either you're exaggerating or...No, that's pretty much the only answer I can see here.

"Case in point," by the way. Again, neither here nor there. I mean, what are you even arguing now? You've offered like two dozen exceptions to your own rules, shift the goalposts when your own concepts don't suit you, and to what end, really?

The whole motion control thing is all just a gimmick. The companies don't care about creating an optimal experience. They just care about making a profit. But, this whole thing will probably pass after a couple years. U sgamers just have to wait it out. Until they move onto real virtual reality. Where we can put on the equipment and jstomp koopas through the eyes of Mario. That'll be the day.

Alright, I know it's a little late for me to say this but I don't buy Yahtzee's real opinion on motion controls one bit. Big surprise considering how much I bitch about him on this site but let me explain....

First of all, this is the first time I've ever heard Yahtzee explain his hatred of motion controls in a mature fashion. A step in the right direction maybe but it's too late for that since he already rubbed the wrong way the previous twenty times he's been immature about it. That's why I don't find Yahtzee creditable. Perhaps if he had wrote this article prior to his MadWorld review, I would've believed him but instead he slung it around in 6 or 7 reviews as a rapid-fire attack on the console and that gave me the impression that he was another fanboy dressing up his opinion as a smear campaign. And that's a good way to loose credibility as a critic: sinking to fanboy levels.

Second, I get the impression that Yahtzee's completely obsessed with immersion to the most unhealthy of degrees. I can see immersion helping with some genres of games, FPS, stealth based, and survival horror for example, but how the hell are you supposed to make an action game or fighting game immersive?

Finally the whole "motion controls aren't immersive" excuse. I'll take that as a confession that Yahtzee's never played Metroid Prime 3 or Fragile because those are definately two examples of games I've played that debunk that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excited for Move or Kinect either but I'm not buying into Yahtzee's whole act of them dragging down the industry either. Stereoscopic 3-D is more of gimmick than motion controls anyway.

But even with that said, Yahtzee is also missing the boat when it comes to the 3DS. Of course Nintendo can't advertise the big 3-D part of the handheld, why do you think it was much more important to pimp out it's game library & other feautures. It's getting a new Kid Icarus as well as Metal Gear Solid and Saint's Row. That's more than enough to warrant a purchase from me. Plus if the 3-D really bothers me that much, I can turn it off. It's not like the thing FORCES you to use it's gimmick.

EDIT: Oh I find it to be real load of bullshit that Yahtzee refers to himself as a "philosopher" to the medium. I don't see a video game equivalent of Confusious or anyone like that, I see a bitter jackass with an immersion fetish who can't work something as simple as a damn Wiimote and cries about hardware issues that don't exist. I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this but the day I call Yahtzee a philosopher is the day I call Seltzer and Friedberg film makers.

I'm on the fence with the whole thing. On one hand, the Wii does prove that motion controls can work (and yes, Mr. Chroshaw, it does work, no matter how much yours hates you), while on the other, more personally fueled hand, I think that motion controls and regular handheld controllers should be kept seperate if the game simply calls for the ladder more. Simply put, it's one of those "wait and see" type deals for me.

You really don't get it, do you? :P
Kinect is not ment to replace gamepads. Kinect is ment to give you a DIFFERENT gaming experience than you always had. And it does deliver that.
Did you actually play it?
It's tons of fun once you get rid of your cynical view of life. Yea, you jump a lot and move your body like a little kid, but that is what fun about it.
You could also say, "Gamepads can't replace the keyboard and mouse". And you don't have a keyboard and a mouse in consoles.
Does that mean gamepads are better than a keyboard and a mouse? Does keyboards and a mouse better than gamepads?

Their are actually 2 different approaches to direct connection to video games 3 if you're smart about it. and becoming a "plug head" is the least fun. my alternative that is far less painful than a socket installed in you're brain is full body suit built out of nano-machines that feel every bit of motion you make and can display images and surround sound on a mask you ware. you would also be in a room or puddle of nanobots that allow you to run and jump without hitting walls you still get the direct connection of thought to action plus no chance of getting fat from sitting on you're ass all day and doing nothing but live in cyber space I'll laugh when you some of the first to upload you're self Yahtzee

Really interesting point about the waving-about-remote things, or whatever they are called. I was kinda hoping that they would be advancing technology, but probably not it would seem. Glad I didn't get involved with them.

For some reason I am also I am delighted to hear Yahtzee is a fan of Mark Kermode's podcasts. Even though I don't go to the cinema anymore it is still interesting and amusing for me to hear his views.

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