Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

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Tanakh:
And you can play Mass Effect 1 thinking Shepard is indded Zerg opperative planted by Kerrigan in order to prove this weak alien races before the invasion, that doesn't make it cannon. In the cannon of the previous ME Shepard was a male/female baddass human operative that kicked reapers asses and did straight/lesbian stuff in his freetime, now it's straight/lesbian/gay, thats a addition retcon.

Sure, you can argument that he was always gay, but we had no hints to that, ever, so now he being gay is retcon as much as if he suddenly tunrs a zerg opperative or that a new Starwars writer makes Chewbacca vegan. Not that there's something inherently bad about that, and sure, you retcon is not terrible in a proyect that involved hundreds of creatives over 6-7 years, still it's not something I like and yeah, i want PERFECT writing and hindsight!!!

But if I made a gay Shepard in ME1 he wouldn't do the "straight stuff", there is an option to not romance anyone. Which is something a lot of people seem to be forgetting.

It's like in real life, if someone who is gay is surrounded by people who are straight, he won't have sex with them. If he later finds someone gay to be in a relationship with that isn't a retcon.

Shepard wasn't straight before there just wasn't any other gay people around.

MegaSuperUberMe:
Well, I am bi and i have a problem with Shepard wanting space dick all of a sudden, without any indication that he wanted space dick before. Don't get me wrong, i DON'T have a problem with him wanting to ride Krogans all night long, I have a problem with how it is presented. I want a little coming out sub plot, where people you know react differently, some accept you and some don't. You are a hero, a role model and known thru all the fking galaxy and i would really like to see this aspect explored. Plus, what about Shepard him/her self? Coming out was one of the hardest things i ever done, it had such an emotional impact on me and everybody around me! This magic cock magnetism with Shepard is just insulting to me

Hmm interesting point. But I kind of like the fact that in video games, whenever I indulge in some man-on-man or woman-on-woman action none of the characters in the game question it. Like they literally do not care about sexuality, because it's just not important in the universe of which the game is set - an ideal reality I suppose. For example, I always liked it in Fable 3 when you get married and all the NPCs do is say how happy they are irrespective of the gender of your chosen spouse. I might make my Shepard go gay, I might not. But I would only want my crew mates to react in a way which was character based, not sexuality based (i.e. Kaiden: "So Shepard, I hear you've ditched Liara for Garrus? Why?! Liara and you were a good match and Garrus is a monotonous turd"). If anything, I would be more interested to see objections to multi-species sex in Mass Effect if they were to ever go down that route.

My only problem is that the gay Shepard is handled so ham handedly. If you want to know how to write a good gay character in a game look at Nathan Drake, Kanji from Persona 4 and Arcade Gannon from Fallout: New Vegas.

Also I laughed hard at Jims rant on Paedophilia =/= Homosexuality.

But to be honest my gripes with Mass Effect 3 come from the blatant ripping off of the endings of Deus Ex and pulling it off really poorly (Oh yeah, spoilers).

good on you jim! nothing wrong with being gay, nor is there any reason to take issue with "gay" options in mass effect 3. be who you are and fuck the rest!

I dont have a problem if they stick gay options in the game but I have two small issues with how that could play out:

1. Does that mean that you can have a romantic relationship with any character making all the male squad mates gay and all the female ones straight (or vice versa for femshep). Would it not be better to set their sexual preference meaning that if you pick a male or female shep some romance options are locked off for you?

2. If you choose to play paragon those dialogue options lead to romantic relationships, so I play that way meaning every crew mate on the ship is going to try and bed me?? I am not cool with that it will seem really stupid and unbelievable.

Solution that may suit everyone: Sexual preference is a parameter you set at the start of the game so the available romance options are adjusted accordingly?

"I knew ignorant morons from the 50's equated homosexuality with pedophilia, but I had no idea it still went on today . . ."

Well said, sir!

I stopped caring about the arguments when 'canonical Shepard' was used. Seriously. The fuck.

The idea that a game that can progress in any hundreds of way has only one right character sexual orientation is absurd.

I have no problem with same sex romance in Bioware games. I applaude Bioware for them and for the inclusivity of their games on any level (like female PCs and female oriented marketing).

I admit to have some problem withe the whole concept of the necessity of romance in Bioware games, to the point where a significant part of their fanbase play Bioware's games ONLY for the romances. To the point where a Bioware game without romances is considered substandard no matter what. For example, in DA2 case it would have been better to invest on other more substantial matters, considering the result (for exampe, more varied environments). But I'm talking of all romances, not just same-sex ones.

But at the end of the day romances are optional content and there is no one forcing me to play them. So, I simply share MC Avelone position on the issue: CRPG could even be done without romances. For many folks on Bio boards that's blasphemy.

Having said all of that, I have one minor issue about same sex romance. Maybe I'm just homophobic as Sterling like to point out but I do not like the fact that in the race to cut corners, Bioware is turning every romancable NPC in to some sort of bi-sexual. I mean, you can have a bi-sexual in the romance cast. You can have a couple of bi-sexual. But not all charachters being bisexual so they are sure to please everyone while cutting corners.

It just does not make a lot of sense in my view and it has shown a lot of problem in a game like DA2. I would prefer each NPC having his own personality and sexuality. Each charachter should look like a real person and not just like a sex-doll in the hand of the player (being straight or gay).

As always, love the video. Considering that Bioware was supposed to have gay romances in Mass Effect to begin with, I'm glad they finally stepped up to the bloody plate in ME3. I wish they'd done it in the first place.

Zachary Amaranth:
I'm expecting the same excuses to come up anyway. And especially the people who blew through several of them, changing their story to conveniently dodge the real issue.

Also, Freddie Mercury is a great example. He slept with a lot of girls in his life but was gay. I guess him sleeping with men doesn't mesh with the canon Freddie, but whatever.

"But their beauty and their style went kind of smooth after a while
Take me to them dirty ladies every time" -Fat Bottomed Girls

Every time, Freddie Mercury can't be gay and that proves it :P

Hixy:

2. If you choose to play paragon those dialogue options lead to romantic relationships, so I play that way meaning every crew mate on the ship is going to try and bed me?? I am not cool with that it will seem really stupid and unbelievable.

If you read the options instead of just chosing the upper right corner you won't have this problem, it's usually fairly obvious which choice leads to a romance.

Callate:
It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common.

Right, like how it isn't all that common for one person to stand up against the Geth army to defend the galaxy. You're right, those things are so super-rare, I don't know why they even put them in games: it just breaks immersion for me completely.

MatParker116:
It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:

Really have no idea why it was cut.

Might sound like a conspiracy theory but I think it had to do with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". When those games were out, DADT was is effect, but it has been repealed so they are doing it now, I guess. I mean in the first ME you had 9 planets, in ME2 their was only 8 planets (Keeping up with current trends?).

I've got one problem with Bioware including gay romance options in ME3 that DOESN'T stem from homophobia: It's that they waited until ME3 to include them.

Tanakh:

sindremaster:
How can gay Shepard be retconning when you create your own Shepard? If I went and played Mass Effect 1 right now I could make a gay Shepard if I wanted.

And you can play Mass Effect 1 thinking Shepard is indded Zerg opperative planted by Kerrigan in order to prove this weak alien races before the invasion, that doesn't make it cannon. In the cannon of the previous ME Shepard was a male/female baddass human operative that kicked reapers asses and did straight/lesbian stuff in his freetime, now it's straight/lesbian/gay, thats a addition retcon.

Sure, you can argument that he was always gay, but we had no hints to that, ever , so now he being gay is retcon as much as if he suddenly tunrs a zerg opperative or that a new Starwars writer makes Chewbacca vegan. Not that there's something inherently bad about that, and sure, you retcon is not terrible in a proyect that involved hundreds of creatives over 6-7 years, still it's not something I like and yeah, i want PERFECT writing and hindsight!!!

firstly, there is NO CANON SHEPARD your Shepard is only canon in YOUR game, it doesnt matter what other Shepards do your shepard does whatever you want him to do. it isnt a retcon if the character's entire existance and choices depend on player choice. if the player chooses for Shepard to be gay, then Shepard IS gay, it isnt a retcon, if you say that he/she isnt, then you know what, you are also correct, with YOUR Shepard

secondly, refering to the bold, you are implying that a gay person always appears to be gay, like he/she can't help but show it, that isn't true, i've met plenty of straight people whom i thought were gay, and gay people whom i thought were straight, all through school people made fun of me for being gay, problem is, i'm perfecly straight, you can't guess anything about sexuality by "hints" or any kind of tendecies they previously exhibited

good god! did you even watch the video this thread is about?!
i'm basically repeating what Jim already said
watch it again, see if you understand then

Jim I salute you, with my cock!

Man, I've had a bad few days but that video made my whole week.

...

I was so waiting for him to stick that in his mouth LOL XD

Funnier than that I think some people are fearful of playing the game through making their choices as they would and then going to bed with the same sex character as if this game defines them or sheds some form of light on the idea that they might be gay. Which is honestly pretty laughable given the idea that all games are pure fantasy and anyone put into a real video game situation would act very differently then the way they play it.

DVS BSTrD:
I've got one problem with Bioware including gay romance options in ME3 that DOESN'T stem from homophobia: It's that they waited until ME3 to include them.

There's a rumour that this guy.

image

Didn't want his face associated with homosexuality.

Sounds like bollocks to me though, I mean, why would he suddenly change his mind?

evilthecat:
snip

If it wouldn't make my boyfriend jealous, I'd tell you that I love you. (whispers: I love you)

Jinxey:
The only thing that bugs me about is that it makes the NPCs in mass effect, a series praised for it's writing, nothing more than wish fulfillment vessels to the player.

This is a tricky situation because video games are supposed to either be empowered or in control of their world. But, as an example, I actually didn't know you could sleep with Ashley in ME1 and I thought it was because of her religious convictions. This didn't bug me, it earned Bioware kudos from me for writing a good and believable character (I didn't sleep with anyone because Liara wasn't my type).

Now Jacob has had a relationship with Miranda, it's brought up early on in ME2. I never got any gay vibes of Jacob in ME2. But if the player wills it, he can make Jacob gay. If the player doesn't go down the gay route in ME3 Jacob will be heterosexual, if the player goes down the gay route in ME3 Jacob will be homosexual.

This might sound stupid but it bugs me that NPCs are not being written as characters with their own motives, beliefs, etc. and instead are around simply to adapt to what the player wants out of them. I think overall that makes a less compelling story, although a much more compelling power fantasy fulfillment simulator.

How many people do you know who would honestly switch their sexuality at the drop of the hat? or go both ways? I know bi-sexuals exist, but almost everyone in a Bioware game seems to be that way and I think the bi-sexual example is being used as a cover for what I view as poor character development.

I would prefer some more concrete sexuality. Some characters that are purely gay, purely homosexual and then some benders. I think it would ultimately lead to stronger characters as their motives are based on their wants instead of mine (as the player).

Bingo. Biowares whole "everybody's bi" just makes for poor storytelling. But bioware would never put in a story option that ended up with "woah woah woah, I'm flattered, but the idea of your dick and mine interacting makes me queasy". Cause as we all know, everyone in the future is bi, all inclusive and tolerant. Including all alien species. No, they'd get called homophobes and lose precious audience. Which is why they dance on this line. They are cowards. They want the "oh look at us, we're inclusive" label without having to commit. By being able to say, if you don't want it, you don't have to have it that way.

I have to agree 100% with Jim on this one that a large percentage of the game community needs to GROW UP, GET SOME PERSPECTIVE, AND GET OVER ITSELF!. I swear it feels like these particular gamers are some of the most ignorant, immature, backwards thinking, sorry-assed excuses for human beings in existence with their only redeeming quality, if you can call it that, being their general self-centered, self-absorbed conceit.

sindremaster:

Hixy:

2. If you choose to play paragon those dialogue options lead to romantic relationships, so I play that way meaning every crew mate on the ship is going to try and bed me?? I am not cool with that it will seem really stupid and unbelievable.

If you read the options instead of just chosing the upper right corner you won't have this problem, it's usually fairly obvious which choice leads to a romance.

Yeah ok I accept that you can choose the neutral option but the fact you have to be careful what options you pick when speaking to some team mates is going to be quite annoying. I know that can be the case with speaking with opposite sex team mates aswell but you can always just end the conversation and when you pursue one specifically the others stop as I remember. I dont want to be walking around the ship talking to the crew and having them all showing romance options it will set in my mind that all the male crewmembers are gay (cause I have male shep) and all the females are straight and that is just outright dumb and is going to make things seem odd. Still think there should be an option at the start, straight, gay, bi . . tick the box.

The last video was too subtle for people?

I find that hard to believe.....if I hadn't looked at the comments from last week's video, and the shit storm that I totally missed, and I do enjoy a good shit storm. Didn't know that pedophilia equaled homosexuality, but then again I don't live in bizarro land, or the 50s.

Also, I'm not buying that whole argument of it being handled poorly seeing as the game comes out tomorrow, and unless you're a reviewer or from the future, I seriously doubt anyone knows that for a fact.

I salute you Jim!

I'm straight and I want gay relationships in my game! Well, I won't be seeing my male Shep doing it, but I will create a female Shepard somewhere down the line...
P.S. And it would be fun if some of my crew were gay, that way I would have to play both sexes in order to bed all the women. And besides, having a whole crew of bisexual people is statistically improbable.

Did Jim just remember that he was trying to make a satire the last 10 sec. in this vid.?

DVS BSTrD:
I've got one problem with Bioware including gay romance options in ME3 that DOESN'T stem from homophobia: It's that they waited until ME3 to include them.

Very much agreed. I have the same problem with it - and frankly, I hope that if/when they do another series, they don't pull this nonsense.

Gods save The Jim!

In both dragonages my character systematically fucked everyone for trophies and settled in with the gay elf.
Probably because it reflects my own life somewhat and roleplay is always influenced by experience, for me. So if/when I pick up ME3 you can bet your ass I'll have Shepeard bang every sentient thing that moves.

Thank God for you Jim, Thank God for you.

Also, I can see you're enjoying Saints Row 3 and I'm not exactly talking about the game itself.

Sadly Jim, sarcasm needs to be spelled out on the internet as for every person saying something tougne and cheek, someone else said it seriously.

You missed the "think of the children playing this game" excuse I've seen recently. You know, the children playing a M rated game full of violence that can't be sold to someone under 17. Funny how we're not afraid of all the shooting kid may be exposed to.

The rest: duh. There is no canon Sheppard. In fact Bioware's gone to great lengths to avoid creating one in the books and comics in it's limited expanded universe. It's 200 years in the future so any of our current perceptions of gay people, their choices and actions are probably not culturaly in line (just imagine judging gay people with the perceptionsof 30 years ago). And aside from it being a choice, unless Garrius throws you down, I think you've always had a final choice to make before sex happened in all these bioware games, so you can bail at the last minute.

The only reasonalbe rationalle is that these are fanservicey relationships meant to titilate and fully make sheppard feel like an avatar, not real characters with lives of their own. Heck, they just stand around in their private cornor of the normandy until you talk to them making them very inorganic as characters, but rather props for your enjoyment. but that's a problem that extends to the straight relationships as well, so it's invalid.

Flight:

DVS BSTrD:
I've got one problem with Bioware including gay romance options in ME3 that DOESN'T stem from homophobia: It's that they waited until ME3 to include them.

Very much agreed. I have the same problem with it - and frankly, I hope that if/when they do another series, they don't pull this nonsense.

This.

I never understood why the option wasn't there in Mass Effect, especially since it was in Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2, I'm glad to have the options open, the more choice in character the development the better it is for role-playing.

Role-playing in my RPG? Do want.

jboking:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

Define what it is that makes homosexuality a mental illness. Define why, if homosexuality is a mental illness, heterosexuality can't be seen as a mental illness as well.

Heterosexuality makes babies. Homosexuality doesn't.

Frankly it IS, from an evolutionary point of view, wrong. Thats not wrong in a moral sense, but wrong in a continuation of the species sense.

I can fully understand why some consider it a mental illness, arguably an inherited or developed one.

My argument would be, so what? If it makes someone happy and does not inflict harm on them or others then whats the problem?

You just told the whining little maggots to "grow up" while holding a 5-foot long dildo-on-a-stick.

I think you have just surpassed the Darth-Vader-riding-T-Rex level of awesome, you big, beautiful, British bastard.

drisky:

"But their beauty and their style went kind of smooth after a while
Take me to them dirty ladies every time" -Fat Bottomed Girls

Every time, Freddie Mercury can't be gay and that proves it :P

Errr...Freddie didn't write that one, though. It was written by ostensibly straight guitarist Brian May Yeah, that proves it. The lyrics don't lie!

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

You're right. We need to behave more like animals. They are so pure and virtuous.

Should we also pick up forcibly copulating with females? Cause animals do that too. Oh, and how about fighting with and possibly killing rival males, over that female we will forcibly copulate with. How about then killing the babies of that rival male that we just killed that were born of that forcibly copulated female that we will now forcibly copulate with. Oh, and speaking of babies. How about we just let parents abandon or kill their babies because they no longer feel like having them because they are a burden. Animals do that too.

I could go on about all the virtuous behaviors that are COMPLETELY NATURAL in animals. But I think I made my point.

Eh, I still have a problem with the gay parts of ME3. Not because I dislike gay people or even the gay options themselves, I just dislike them because the fan base has been so annoying in its insistence for them that my inner troll has been awoken and now all I want is to see their dreams broken before me so that I can partake of the delicious nectar of their tears.

Plus I don't like that having gay options means that the team members are all going to be Shepard-sexual, just seems like lazy writing and I expect better from Bioware.

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