The R Word

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itsthesheppy:

Fluoxetine:

anthony87:

....provide it here maybe?

I'm on probation already and every time I provide an opinion contrary to the popular one I get reported.

You might want to work on your delivery? Or perhaps you should consider the opinions you have on things, and why the things you say might negatively affect people?

If those were the rules, "The R Word" article would never be posted as it is a request to limit free speech. But nobody considers that because my view is the minority and thus does not count.

Fluoxetine:

itsthesheppy:

Fluoxetine:

I'm on probation already and every time I provide an opinion contrary to the popular one I get reported.

You might want to work on your delivery? Or perhaps you should consider the opinions you have on things, and why the things you say might negatively affect people?

If those were the rules, "The R Word" article would never be posted as it is a request to limit free speech. But nobody considers that because my view is the minority and thus does not count.

He's not forcing anybody to not say anything. He's saying that you should think before you speak because you could *be hurting someone* with your words.

Buuuut I don't think you really get that, seeing as how you've said that an article about a man baring his soul about one of the most excruciating things that can happen to a human being is a "terrible article with dangerous ramifications."

That may be one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard somebody say.

Fluoxetine:

itsthesheppy:

Fluoxetine:

I'm on probation already and every time I provide an opinion contrary to the popular one I get reported.

You might want to work on your delivery? Or perhaps you should consider the opinions you have on things, and why the things you say might negatively affect people?

If those were the rules, "The R Word" article would never be posted as it is a request to limit free speech. But nobody considers that because my view is the minority and thus does not count.

It does no such thing. It asks people to think before speaking. It's attempting to educate people about something they quite possibly have no real context for. It is, at its most basic, asking for a modicum of considering for your fellow humans.

None of that comes anywhere near limiting free speech. You're still free to say whatever you like.

It means a lot to me seeing this article on a gaming website. Thanks for writing such a profound article Anonymous!

Iron Lightning:

Okay, so let me get this straight. It's not okay to use the word "rape" because it might trigger violent flashbacks. It is, however, okay to use works like "murder," "genocide," "assault," "kill," etc. which also might trigger violent flashbacks because society apparently doesn't trivialize those things. Wait a minute, wouldn't society, as you claim, treating murder as much more serious than rape mean that victims of murder (i.e. those people who have been harshly impacted by close love dieing) should react more harshly to murder than victims of rape should react to rape? You know what else is really trivialized by society? Woman on man violence. That can also cause traumatic flashbacks. I guess we should ban women from saying that they "dominated" anyone because that might cause traumatic flashbacks.

Man, I just don't see how this logic makes any sense.

I'll try to explain this in a way that has already has been explained already in comments posted.

I'll give you the pass to say anything you want online. If you want to insult someone, go ahead, say you 'raped' them. Or 'murder' them. Or committed 'genocide' in some shape or fashion. But in return, you better damn well be AWARE of what the other person may be thinking, and be prepared to face, to fully empathize with the pain (fuck the offense) those words may cause. If I were to use those words online in an insulting fashion, I'm ready to bow my head in apology, or anything that can even remotely soothe that person's trauma, especially when we're talking about games we both should be enjoying. Anything less, and you're no better than disease-ridden fecal matter. As much as I am misanthropic and disappointed with today's society (not like I'm faultless either but), I don't wish to push people away with 'mere' words.

Verbal language, like all communication, is always about how the receiving party perceives it, much more so than what the communicator is expressing. If we didn't think about the words we hear, what would the point of speech be, then? So you can't simply lump the mention of, the word 'rape' with other atrocities humans inflict on each other(I mean, you can, but you only distort understanding of what rape is by starting to question it alongside other topics). I'll press that, in a comment section for an article about rape, we keep it focused.

Iron Lightning:

itsthesheppy:

All I will say that it is poor form to tell someone else that the way they cope is inferior because it is different from yours. I feel for what's happened to you and I fully recognize that I could never truly understand it, but attacking someone who has just painfully revealed something tragic about themselves in an appeal for a community that is more inclusive is bad form.

Cope? I'm not coping. I'm fine, I'm cured insofar as it possible to be. Coping is what people who can't get over it do. Mr. Anonymous is not over it. If he ever wants to get over it then he simply has to face his fears. That's not just my experience. It's the prevailing psychological theory.

So, it's bad form to tell a person that they need to stop living in fear. It's bad form to tell a person that they need to get over being a victim.

Then it must be good form to reinforce the person through hollow sympathy and leave him so terrified that the mere mention of rape turns the person into a quivering mess. Yep, that's really nice.

So you're not coping. But you're nowhere near understanding what the article portrays about the author. Great job. [1]

I, and betting that so many others, do not see that the author is living in fear. There's more evidence that, being that s/he can write a 3 page article coherently on the subject, has actually mastered his/her fear of that situation.

I think you just have the tense wrong. 'Lived in fear', not 'Living in fear'.

OP, you give heart to this website. I am grateful for the experience you've shared with us all. I can only hope I can take the fullness of it with me in life.

[1] I'm aware I'm being a bit harsh and condescending here, but that's just the way I'm trying to reach you. I hope you can understand.

This piece was a great read. A lot to take in mind you. Though I've always been an empathetic person, or at least strived to see the world in other peoples eyes, I would be a fool to think I can understand something without experience. There were lessons learned today.

That said, I can't help but notice something particularly typical about the comments that follow. It seems that no matter how hard someone tries, people will always miss the point.

When someone points to the moon, there will always be people who stare at the finger.

Thank you very much for writing this, sir. I'm sorry that it was so hard for you, but I'm grateful that you did it.

Shjade:
snip

Your example doesn't hold up. A more appropriate example would be I have a license to go hunting that there are animal rights activist that are offended by my activity. They have a right to be offended, but it doesn't stop me from being allowed to hunt.

itsthesheppy:

No. I mean the text you quoted me as saying, I didn't type.

...oh. Apologies.

itsthesheppy:

If you don't care enough about trauma victims to do your part to make the community safer for them, and for everyone, then I'll thank you to at the very least not stand in the way of people who are trying.

I won't get in your way as long as you don't try to push your agenda on me

Some random zippy thoughts

When things enter into the realm of fiction they become a spices if not world. Rape,violence,sex,ect,ect,ect. All are modes of transportation to take a story from one event to another. However they are used always let who/what/when/where be the debate. Also using words incorrectly (ie retard,rape,ect) is what humans do.

They take hard to inane volatile concepts and make fun of it. Life is harsher than any of us, to make us try and not mis use some words as so we can have an appearance of respect or notion as to the real meaning of the word in use which at the middle point of conversation both sides are taking things out of context.(IE neither understanding the other side more than moronic morality police or inane sht talking punk or silly idiotic humor ).

Its nonsensical and smacks of fake and false and illusionary make believe happy time. At a point and time one dose have to grow some thick skin or people in general will grow more to take the most inane things all the more personally which dose none of us any good. It's a word, we are the ones that give them power, they have many meanings and innuendos per individual and many many more variants strewn across the world. Your good intentions to clean up humanities vocabulary might well be all and fine but it's a very asinine task if you ask me.

edit

Oh and can we get the crime of rape to be equal to that of murder so we can cull them from the prison rosters....

edit
IMO this its more situational based meaning that people must take time be careful/respectful around the traumatized person, this is not going to happen by white washing the issue and saying that all poor/inane usages of the trigger words are the problem IMO.

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

If you don't care enough about trauma victims to do your part to make the community safer for them, and for everyone, then I'll thank you to at the very least not stand in the way of people who are trying.

I won't get in your way as long as you don't try to push your agenda on me

If by 'push agenda' you mean 'ask you not to use offensive language' then I make no promises.

JerrytheBullfrog:

He's not forcing anybody to not say anything. He's saying that you should think before you speak because you could *be hurting someone* with your words.

Buuuut I don't think you really get that, seeing as how you've said that an article about a man baring his soul about one of the most excruciating things that can happen to a human being is a "terrible article with dangerous ramifications."

That may be one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard somebody say.

It's not worth it, mate. In his mind, he's bravely defending his rights and the concept of free speech on the barricades, while we, the majority, tries to silence him and general righteousness, repressing the minority und so weiter...

Some people seem to think basic consideration for other people is too much of a prize to pay.

Helmholtz Watson:
I won't get in your way as long as you don't try to push your agenda on me

Again, behaving like a considering, respectful adult is hardly an agenda.

In response to the question: how am I supposed to know there is a rape victim in the room if I am not told?

Count people in earshot. Ten or more? Safe to assume there is a rape victim in the room. Way easier just to pick a different word.

CosmicCommander:
I was deeply moved by this, truly.

When I finished reading and reflected, though, I thought of that legendary line from Shakespeare "What's in a name?" Sure, you touched on the point that the definition of words change over time, but the fact of the matter is is that the word "rape" isn't used in malice or cruelty or intentionally used to cause upset. The only reason it causes upset is that those who immediately correlate the word with their own horrific experiences -- like yourself. Indeed, I'd say that although some gamers could use some soap in their mouths, conflating words (abstract concepts, on their own) with experiences may very well lead to difficulty in any element of life.

Trivialising rape is bad, of course. But using the word rape in a completely different context as many gamers do shouldn't attract as much upset. I remember something Charlie Chaplain once said: "Laughter is the tonic, the relief, the surcease for pain." If we let concepts and ideas hurt us so, we truly give in to them. We must laugh at them, ultimately. In a sense, gamers have come to embody this; in the face of every atrocity and tragedy, the general reaction is to laugh at it in some new and creative way in defiance of sadness and shock.

My interpretation, anyway. I know, I'm a psuedo-intellectual fuck.

I would say why it's still bad to use rape in a manner even without malice becomes more clear when you ask yourself, "When experiencing something, which comes first, the thought, or the feeling?". It kinda seems like a 'chicken or the egg' argument, but I think myself that the feeling comes first, so those affected by trauma of, say, rape, are going to feel the hell first, then be able to think about it.

CaptainKarma:

In this case, it's because you may trigger violent and distressing flashbacks, as well as it being shockingly tactless, and trivialising violent acts.

So instead of having fun, I should be walking on egg shells for other people? No thanks.

CaptainKarma:

And don't try and make comparisons with murder or genocide. Yes, they're horrible, and its tactless to use those words, but society is pretty open about them being bad. Rape is still trivialised, people are either not believed, treated as if they were asking for it, victim blamed, told to just get over it etc. It's not about the word, its about the way society treats the thing.

And this has what to do with what I should or shouldn't say on Xbox live?

Creatural:

Then why would a rape survivor have any less of a right to play a game and not hear horrible things reminding them of a horrible thing in their past?

They have every right to mute people they don't want to listen to.

Creatural:

And before you bring it up, we're talking about the word rape here as it's the word being used. Starving, genocide, and murder aren't typically used in these situations and I think you're aware of that. I don't think it's right either to bring up those words for people who have suffered traumas relating to their own pasts, before you bring that up as well.

Nonsense, those words are used like that. Go look at my previous post about Project Gotham racing and Midnight Club.

Creatural:
Someone who's been abused and sexually assaulted, hearing a rape joke is more likely to be hurt than when hearing a abuse joke since they know that the person they're hearing these things from is going to treat one of these things far more seriously in real life and they don't have a guarantee they won't rape someone given the chance as society treats that far less seriously than they should.

Appealing to emotion fallacy. Give my a reason that I shouldn't be allowed to say the word rape that doesn't include appealing to emotion.

Muspelheim:

Again, behaving like a considering, respectful adult is hardly an agenda.

Telling me how I have to behave on Xbox live because you don't like it and it goes against your ideas, is an agenda that I don't have to agree with or abide by.

EDIT:

itsthesheppy:

Helmholtz Watson:

itsthesheppy:

If you don't care enough about trauma victims to do your part to make the community safer for them, and for everyone, then I'll thank you to at the very least not stand in the way of people who are trying.

I won't get in your way as long as you don't try to push your agenda on me

If by 'push agenda' you mean 'ask you not to use offensive language' then I make no promises.

Then I can't promise that I won't get in your way.

Helmholtz Watson:
Appealing to emotion fallacy. Give my a reason that I shouldn't be allowed to say the word rape that doesn't include appealing to emotion.

There's no answer I can give you that does not concern emotion, but impossible scenarios easily, even definitely sprout from other, earlier impossible scenarios. While you'd have reason to use the word rape how you'd like if no emotion involved, emotion is always involved with people. Just think for a bit why you continue to post here.

For those of you claiming that the word rape should be allowed as slang because "it doesn't carry that meaning for everyone" or that victims should "get over it," I have to ask ... why? Is it such a difficult task that you be asked to avoid careless expressions like"fag" or "rape" because it may spare someone else's feelings? Does you not being able to use those words somehow cause you harm or hurt your ability to communicate? Why should it ever be acceptable for people to cast aside all thoughts of others just for the lazy luxury of using the first word that comes to mind? There are people in the world who've dealt with serious hardship, hardship which hopefully most of you will never have to endure. If you do, however, I for one hope others will act with less callousness and more care regarding your sensitivities than you've been willing to afford those whose feelings you're so readily dismissing at present.

I'm very thankful to you, anonymous author, for sharing this. I strive to speak in ways that provoke people to thoughtfulness, not to instinctive reactions of fear and pain. I have, of course, violated that self-imposed rule hundreds of times. But I'm trying to improve, and your candor helps me move in that direction. Thank you thank you thank you. And stay strong; even with that limp, you are strong!!

Anonymous:

Actually, I have family members who are victims of genocide. I don't mean "they are part of an ethnic group that had genocide perpetrated against them," I mean they themselves were beaten, starved, chased from their homes by soldiers, and saw their houses destroyed. For whatever reason, they don't respond to those words in the way rape victims often respond to slang uses of the word "rape." (Even though many of them have post-traumatic stress disorder.) Having said that, I know a lot of Jews who don't appreciate Holocaust jokes, so -- no, I don't think joking about genocide is somehow "okay" either.

The point was that I find it odd that rape is treated delicately, but should people use words like genocide, murder or kill, little is said about it.

Anonymous:

I'm not forcing anyone stop using the word "rape," I just want people to understand that it can be hurtful, and make a conscious decision about whether or not using the word is worth the damage it can cause. Some people will be okay with it, some won't, but as it stands many people haven't considered why others would be hurt by the term.

As long as you give people the choice and are not trying to force them to agree with you, you and I have no issues.

I am male, and not a rape victim, but I react EXTREMELY negatively when I see rape taken lightly/taken as acceptable entertainment. Even as I type this I have to restrain myself from directing exceptionally harsh language at those who would (conceptually, not specifically from this thread) disagree. My close friends know not to talk about it around me. They don't really get why I react the way I do to it, and I don't either. But I absolutely vehemently WILL NOT stand for it. It isn't something to joke about, it ISN'T a 'feminist issue' (in regards to which I agree with the author's view of what constitutes 'feminist issues'). It is about something that is utterly reprehensible and inexcusable, something that causes serious problems for the people who live through it, something that absolutely should not be taken lightly or for sport. I cannot thank the author enough for writing this. For those who have been victims of rape, and do use the word casually, I would advise them against using it such, as a rule. Just because it isn't a trigger for them doesn't mean they get a free pass there.

[The following added via Edit]
When people make jokes or try to justify rape porn as acceptable, or things like that, or (like in the author's example) CHEER for a character to be raped, I want those people to hurt. I want them to hurt as much as anyone who has ever been a victim of rape to hurt. Irrational, but me.

That being said, the only place I disagreed with the author was in regards to overcoming it. Not something to take lightly or shrug off, definitely, but I do absolutely believe it can be overcome.

Ipsen:

Helmholtz Watson:
Appealing to emotion fallacy. Give my a reason that I shouldn't be allowed to say the word rape that doesn't include appealing to emotion.

There's no answer I can give you that does not concern emotion, but impossible scenarios easily, even definitely sprout from other, earlier impossible scenarios. While you'd have reason to use the word rape how you'd like if no emotion involved, emotion is always involved with people. Just think for a bit why you continue to post here.

I have and I will ignore logical fallacies like appealing to emotion.

Mike Kayatta:
For those of you claiming that the word rape should be allowed as slang because "it doesn't carry that meaning for everyone" or that victims should "get over it," I have to ask ... why? Is it such a difficult task that you be asked to avoid careless expressions like"fag" or "rape" because it may spare someone else's feelings?

Your appeal to emotiont fallacy aside, why should we have to censor ourselves? Why can't a person just mute us if they don't like what we have to say?

Mike Kayatta:
Does you not being able to use those words somehow cause you harm or hurt your ability to communicate? Why should it ever be acceptable for people to cast aside all thoughts of others just for the lazy luxury of using the first word that comes to mind? There are people in the world who've dealt with serious hardship, hardship which hopefully most of you will never have to endure. If you do, however, I for one hope others will act with less callousness and more care regarding your sensitivities than you've been to those whose feelings you're so readily dismissing at present.

Your just blatantly appealing to emotion now.

Helmholtz Watson:

Ipsen:

Helmholtz Watson:
Appealing to emotion fallacy. Give my a reason that I shouldn't be allowed to say the word rape that doesn't include appealing to emotion.

There's no answer I can give you that does not concern emotion, but impossible scenarios easily, even definitely sprout from other, earlier impossible scenarios. While you'd have reason to use the word rape how you'd like if no emotion involved, emotion is always involved with people. Just think for a bit why you continue to post here.

I have and I will ignore logical fallacies like appealing to emotion.

Mike Kayatta:
For those of you claiming that the word rape should be allowed as slang because "it doesn't carry that meaning for everyone" or that victims should "get over it," I have to ask ... why? Is it such a difficult task that you be asked to avoid careless expressions like"fag" or "rape" because it may spare someone else's feelings?

Your appeal to emotion fallacy aside, why should we have to censor ourselves? Why can't a person just mute us if they don't like what we have to say?

Mike Kayatta:
Does you not being able to use those words somehow cause you harm or hurt your ability to communicate? Why should it ever be acceptable for people to cast aside all thoughts of others just for the lazy luxury of using the first word that comes to mind? There are people in the world who've dealt with serious hardship, hardship which hopefully most of you will never have to endure. If you do, however, I for one hope others will act with less callousness and more care regarding your sensitivities than you've been to those whose feelings you're so readily dismissing at present.

Your just tenably appealing to emotion now.

It's not a fallacious appeal to emotion. It's an extremely simple point. Why do you need to use this word? What do you actually gain in comparison to what he and similar people actually lose? Period.

I completely agree. Anyone who claims to be a supporter of feminism or men's rights yet argues superiority or more rights over the oppisite gender are not furthering their respective causes. They're just being sexist.

Helmholtz Watson:

CaptainKarma:

In this case, it's because you may trigger violent and distressing flashbacks, as well as it being shockingly tactless, and trivialising violent acts.

So instead of having fun, I should be walking on egg shells for other people? No thanks.

CaptainKarma:

And don't try and make comparisons with murder or genocide. Yes, they're horrible, and its tactless to use those words, but society is pretty open about them being bad. Rape is still trivialised, people are either not believed, treated as if they were asking for it, victim blamed, told to just get over it etc. It's not about the word, its about the way society treats the thing.

And this has what to do with what I should or shouldn't say on Xbox live?

Creatural:

Then why would a rape survivor have any less of a right to play a game and not hear horrible things reminding them of a horrible thing in their past?

They have every right to mute people they don't want to listen to.

Creatural:

And before you bring it up, we're talking about the word rape here as it's the word being used. Starving, genocide, and murder aren't typically used in these situations and I think you're aware of that. I don't think it's right either to bring up those words for people who have suffered traumas relating to their own pasts, before you bring that up as well.

Nonsense, those words are used like that. Go look at my previous post about Project Gotham racing and Midnight Club.

Creatural:
Someone who's been abused and sexually assaulted, hearing a rape joke is more likely to be hurt than when hearing a abuse joke since they know that the person they're hearing these things from is going to treat one of these things far more seriously in real life and they don't have a guarantee they won't rape someone given the chance as society treats that far less seriously than they should.

Appealing to emotion fallacy. Give my a reason that I shouldn't be allowed to say the word rape that doesn't include appealing to emotion.

Typical ≠ never used. Learn to read what I've written in response to you or don't bother making a response at all.

And okay, here we go, if you want to look at why you shouldn't make rape jokes to strangers without using emotions it's very simple. It can trigger them. Triggers can make people stop processing things well and they won't make logical decisions. Triggers can make people so unproductive that they can do none of the tasks that their society needs them to complete. Triggers can also make some people violent and physically harm other people in society.

I would argue though that as this is a discussion about people using the word rape in an emotional way to begin with, a joke which is inherently about emotions (it's about making you feel elated after all if a joke's "good") is what we're discussing. We're discussing the way people use rape in a kind of joking or victorious way in games. The victorious expression is also about emotion as it's expressing a feeling of triumph.

There is no way this argument isn't about emotion. If your argument is that emotions shouldn't come in to play here that won't make sense since jokes and victory expression are inherently emotional things and taking away emotion from this does no one any good. It defeats the purpose of these things entirely.

Prove to me how a joke isn't about emotion (which includes relieving stress, an emotion, and bringing happiness, an emotion) or how a victory cry isn't filled with emotion and we can argue about how neither of them should be treated emotionally.

Also, an emotional fallacy is a fallacy wherein I'd appeal to your emotions. I didn't. I gave you information on how most other people feel, based on statistics that I remember and personal experience, that doesn't automatically mean I'm appealing to your emotions. I'm not trying to make you cry. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just telling you how some people have felt. Don't use emotional fallacy when you don't know what it means.

Furthermore, if we're going to argue about emotions here, why do you want to use the word rape? Does it make you feel good? Do you like that word? What reason is there for you to use it other than an emotional attachment to it? It's just a word after all, and it doesn't even accurately describe what you're doing when you win a game against someone, so why use it?

I'm using the general you in that last part.

Helmholtz Watson:
Telling me how I have to behave on Xbox live because you don't like it and it goes against your ideas, is an agenda that I don't have to agree with or abide by.

It isn't my ideas. It's what responsible, considerate adults are supposed to do; consider what words they let leave their mouths. Civility. I guarantee you, your world or your gaming experience will be in no way diminished because you consider what you say and what it may do to other players.

No, I can't really tell you how to behave on Xbox live. However, you will be judged by your behaviour, like everywhere else.

EDIT: I'm genuinly curious now. What exactly is it that you lose if you choose to not use certain words carelessly? There must be other, better ones, and you don't run the risk of being hurtful to some other person.

Firstly, to the OP: I had a bad experience once where I stubbornly refused to use a safe word during sex. That brief window of time where I was utterly helpless and unable to stop what was going on gave me a tiny little window into what it might be like to be raped. So, from that meager perspective that in no way compares to yours (I like to think it makes my sympathy stronger), I hope you continue to improve in whatever way constitutes improvement, and I appreciate you stepping out and giving me better understanding into traumatic experiences.

That said, I feel like the people who are arguing one way or another just don't get it either way, or are so wrapped up with proving the other side "wrong" that they are refusing to truly consider things.

I'll tell you guys a story. In high school I was in the drama club. One day after school myself and two of my friends were sitting on the stage making awful jokes about just about everything. We got around to epilepsy, and before we knew it a teacher marched into the theater and told us to get our butts to her classroom. Unbeknownst to us her daughter had been listening to us in the back of the theater. We didn't know her very well, but guess what? Yup, she had epilepsy.

It didn't bother me that the teacher wanted to punish us, because yes we were being inappropriate and crass and saying things in school that you aren't allowed to. What bothered me was that the only thing she wanted to punish us for was our comments (and er. . .caricatures) of epilepsy. We had no way of knowing that her daughter had epilepsy, or even that she was watching us. Yet the teacher, blinded by her own motherly instinct to protect her daughter from hurt, inadvertantly gave us the message that all the other crude comments we were making were okay, but epilepsy was one holy subject that should never be made light of.

Here is my thing: if you are going to be sympathetic or empathetic, be that way about everything, and understand the venues. With close friends, I can be crass and rude. The second I see something is up (the way they talk, body language, etc) I stop. I won't press into it, but I can see that something is wrong and so I change the subject.

With strangers, I do my damndest to avoid the most common controversial things in order to not hurt a stranger, unless the venue calls for it (a discussion about it or whatever). Do I slip up? Of course, I'm human. But the point is, I have enough respect and concern for my fellow humans to put in the effort. Do I still use some words that could be considered hurtful? Yes. I use 'retarded' pretty frequently. Would I stop using it in the presence of someone who might find it hurtful? Absolutely.

Now, the difference between some of these words is the amount of personal involvement. The word 'genocide' is nothing more than a sort of statistic to most of us who have the luxury of playing video games, so it's less likely to have people defending it. Is it awful? Yes. Are you going to cause someone emotional or psychological pain/suffering by using it? Probably not. Does that make it okay to use in a casual, offhand manner as though people dying horribly is okay? No.

But in a lot of ways we are still children when it comes to horrible acts. Rape is a little more understandable, because for most of us we have had some sort of emotional hurt and have the brainpower to realize just how much more painful that would be over something that didn't wreck you. Sometimes in our inability to understand something we tend to make light of it because it is strange and foreign to us and that's what we tend to do. To me, that's in some way normal. However, even if you don't understand why something might be especially painful to someone, the polite thing -- the thing that imo makes humanity worth something -- is to try to act in a way that will no longer cause that person distress.

And the argument here inevitably becomes one of morals. If you are not in a headspace to care about other people, then you aren't. I've met some people like that, over the years. They are not people I care to be around. But, it is not my place to condemn them. In my mind, there's no telling what happened to them to make them that way, and in more cases than not it's something I pity them for. However, will that stop me from trying to ask them to behave differently so as to not cause harm (even if it seems stupid to them)? Nope.

Now, with all of that said, rape in my mind deserves a little more solemnity than words like 'murder' or 'genocide' in most first world cultures when dealing with your fellows simply due to the fact that you're far more likely to run into someone whose life has totally been screwed due to it. It's really damn unlikely you're going to cause pain to someone who experienced the trauma of seeing a close one murdered (as to me that's the only way the word is comparable to rape within the context of the discussion) or genocide. Does that mean I think people should go about using any of those words as though they are not each terrible things? No. But it does mean that I think using the word 'rape' indiscriminately as some sort of power word, while being cognizant of and understanding the pain it causes others, to show your domination over someone else is immature as all get out and a sign of someone who does not, in the end, care much for his or her fellows and not someone I would ever want to have anything to do with.

Also, as someone else said, saying 'I murdered you' in a video game is usually demonstrative of what is actually going on in the video game. Now if we want to talk about how murder/killing in video games is harmful or whatever, I think a new thread is needed for that.

Aaaand that's my soapbox for the year.

edit - one quick thing: saying 'I want to murder your mother' or 'I want to commit genocide upon you and your people' is as offensive as lightly using the word 'rape,' in my mind.

Well done. Well done. clap clap clap

Muspelheim:

Helmholtz Watson:
Telling me how I have to behave on Xbox live because you don't like it and it goes against your ideas, is an agenda that I don't have to agree with or abide by.

It isn't my ideas. It's what responsible, considerate adults are supposed to do; consider what words they let leave their mouths. Civility. I guarantee you, your world or your gaming experience will be in no way diminished because you consider what you say and what it may do to other players.

No, I can't really tell you how to behave on Xbox live. However, you will be judged by your behaviour, like everywhere else.

EDIT: I'm genuinly curious now. What exactly is it that you lose if you choose to not use certain words carelessly? There must be other, better ones, and you don't run the risk of being hurtful to some other person.

*lurk lurk lurk* Ok I bite...... how many traumatizing trigger words are going to have to be removed from common use before humanity realizes that was never the problem to begin with.

This stuff(I go beyond rape to anything else that might cause a break down or hurt feelings) is situational and dependent upon the individual traumatized, IE there are to many random factors for humans to up and change to say other wise is rather disingenuous....

That was an amazing article. I gained a lot of insight, and never really knew about the 'limp' analogy.

Bravo.

As an aside, though, I'm truly curious about how this relates to torture. Why is sexual assault seen as so much worse than true torture, which can have the exact same results yet is present in great amounts in many triple-A games?

Why is torture seen as a 'challenge to overcome' while rape (correctly) is not?

Take a look at this, and you'll see what I mean:

Christopher Hitchens had panic attacks lasting the rest of his life from thirty seconds of water-boarding, so just imagine the life-lasting effects that days or weeks of true torture would have. I assure you, it would be very much similar to a rape victim's suffering.

So while I may not stop my colloquial usage of rape immediately, I will definitely try to lower my use of it, though I wish that people would make the same connection with torture as is made with rape, and have yet to see a reason to distinguish between the two.

Both DO have their use in story-telling, and both are horrible events that can ruin or damage a person irreparably.

Fluoxetine:

anthony87:

Fluoxetine:
A terrible article with dangerous ramifications, and I demand an opportunity to provide a counterpoint even though I know I will not be allowed one.

....provide it here maybe?

I'm on probation already and every time I provide an opinion contrary to the popular one I get reported.

Perhaps it is how you express your opinion... I mean, TERRIBLE article with no objective explanation and then saying it's our fault because we have a different opinion. Huh.
Maybe you should listen to the latest escapist podcast.

ZippyDSMlee:

*lurk lurk lurk* Ok I bite...... how many traumatizing trigger words are going to have to be removed from common use before humanity realizes that was never the problem to begin with.

This stuff(I go beyond rape to anything else that might cause a break down or hurt feelings) is situational and dependent upon the individual traumatized, IE there are to many random factors for humans to up and change to say other wise is rather disingenuous....

ARGH. What gets me about these arguments is that it totally ignores a few things.

First of all, the main thing is: should we even care about hurting others in a significant way?

If the answer is yes, then you have a responsibility to limit you usage of words to ones you, to the best of your knowledge, think will not cause hurt to others. Or, if you're unwilling to do that, to thoroughly and sincerely apologize to anyone who is brave enough to come up to you and tell you that you caused them pain. But the point is, if you do truly care about hurting others and causing that pain, then you would do your best to not use words that you think are offensive or might be to one of the strangers out there (no, I'm not saying cut out every single word in your vocabulary, but the chances of someone being hurt by 'fag' are a lot higher than someone being hurt by 'blue.' We're intelligent creatures. We can understand the difference between what is typically hurtful versus what is not). Will you still probably offend someone sometime? Yeah. And, if it is something you deem to be probably offensive or hurtful, you'd apologize. (someone getting hurt because they've dealt with mental afflictions all their life and you're making fun of that is different from someone getting hurt because you insulted their favorite actress)

If the answer is no then there is absolutely no point in even debating word usage because the basic thing that would make a discussion worth having is not there.

ZippyDSMlee:

*lurk lurk lurk* Ok I bite...... how many traumatizing trigger words are going to have to be removed from common use before humanity realizes that was never the problem to begin with.

This stuff(I go beyond rape to anything else that might cause a break down or hurt feelings) is situational and dependent upon the individual traumatized, IE there are to many random factors for humans to up and change to say other wise is rather disingenuous....

Well, first of all... Do we really, really need words like rape, fag, nigger and so on to make an internet discussion worth having? Sure, they're terms and words, too, but... They're sensitive for a reason.

I do see your point, however. Many different words can be that one trigger that catalysts such a reaction. Sometimes, you simply couldn't possibly know, if it's a completly regular word, like attic. However, some words are more commonly a catalyst than others, and a carelessly tossed "rape" is one of those who are fairly likely to be that.
Again, I don't think it should be entirely removed from our vocabulary. The word itself aren't very likely to cause a flashback or anxiety. It's about the context.

Like if a player say "Ha! I raped you, noob!" after beating them at some moment in a game. It's when rape is used in that manner that it becomes a problem, like a very careless term of domination. It's -that- behaviour that just isn't very kind, and it's not a difficult task to simply choose a less loaded term.

Edit:

chadachada123:

As an aside, though, I'm truly curious about how this relates to torture. Why is sexual assault seen as so much worse than true torture, which can have the exact same results yet is present in great amounts in many triple-A games?

Why is torture seen as a 'challenge to overcome' while rape (correctly) is not?

That -is- a very good point, actually, and I'd really wish developers would stop doing that, amongst other things... It just doesn't feel right. I feel that it's one thing shooting an enemy entity that has a fair chance to fight back, and another thing to do horrible things to them when they're restrained and can't defend themselves. It just makes me want to quit, or skip that section.

The absolute stubbornness of some of these self proclaimed white knights is crazy. I think they're just thriving on the internet attention. Anyways this article was great and there is nothing to say that anyone else hasn't already stated. Great writing anonymous.

littlewisp:

ZippyDSMlee:

*lurk lurk lurk* Ok I bite...... how many traumatizing trigger words are going to have to be removed from common use before humanity realizes that was never the problem to begin with.

This stuff(I go beyond rape to anything else that might cause a break down or hurt feelings) is situational and dependent upon the individual traumatized, IE there are to many random factors for humans to up and change to say other wise is rather disingenuous....

ARGH. What gets me about these arguments is that it totally ignores a few things.

First of all, the main thing is: should we even care about hurting others in a significant way?

If the answer is yes, then you have a responsibility to limit you usage of words to ones you, to the best of your knowledge, think will not cause hurt to others. Or, if you're unwilling to do that, to thoroughly and sincerely apologize to anyone who is brave enough to come up to you and tell you that you caused them pain. But the point is, if you do truly care about hurting others and causing that pain, then you would do your best to not use words that you think are offensive or might be to one of the strangers out there (no, I'm not saying cut out every single word in your vocabulary, but the chances of someone being hurt by 'fag' are a lot higher than someone being hurt by 'blue.' We're intelligent creatures. We can understand the difference between what is typically hurtful versus what is not). Will you still probably offend someone sometime? Yeah. And, if it is something you deem to be probably offensive or hurtful, you'd apologize. (someone getting hurt because they've dealt with mental afflictions all their life and you're making fun of that is different from someone getting hurt because you insulted their favorite actress)

If the answer is no then there is absolutely no point in even debating word usage because the basic thing that would make a discussion worth having is not there.

We should be reasonable to each other and not play on each others weaknesses.

And I hate arguments such as your. It effects so few and its so hard to effect effective change its just silly to think such good ideas will ever work.

It goes back again to situational scenarios everyone deals with different ones differently, the most you can hope for is for humans to be respectful of others.

This means that poor use of word meanings would hopefully be lessened around people you do not know or in public.

oh....damnit I think I just argued your point.........damnit why do I have to be a long winded bastard ><

Well this is a tricky one...

First of all, Mr Anonymous, I thank you for writing the article when it has clearly been difficult for you. And I would like to fully agree with you in trying to avoid "trigger words" as they can cause traumatic flashbacks to victims.

However the reason I cannot fully agree is due to the fear, however foolish/irrational it may admittedly seem, is that there are that many potential triggers words (not all obviously to the level of rape) that it is nigh on impossible to predict what a trigger word for somebody may be, and that this may lead to a slippery slope of nobody talking at all for fear of offending someone. Let's move on however as I myself have admitted that the thought of that scenario is rather foolish.

Anyway, your article has definitely moved me, and I will definitely make an attempt to make sure I, and others, at least think, or 'check our surroundings' at least before using obviously potential trigger words.

...and group hug, everyone.

image

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