Zero Punctuation: Quantum Conundrum

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trollpwner:
Well, let me just get this straight, lest I be accused of straw-manning by someone who was insecure enough to interpret "gaming today has a lot of problems" as "I hate P.C. gaming and blame it for everything".

Your point wasn't presented in a way I could understand and I had difficulty comprehending its meaning. I'm sorry.

trollpwner:
Let me just double-check and, yep, you're flicking back to the old P.C. elitist strongholds: "Console controls are evil because they have fewer buttons and are less responsive than a mouse" and "consoles have less processing power so they kill any game made for them".

I didn't say that console controls are evil, just that they are severely limited in their usage when compared to a keyboard and mouse.

As for the console, the processing power is a hindrance in certain cases and those hindrances have to be accommodated for. This may not be an issue for someone playing a straight single-player FPS, but a game like BF3 suffers; the maps are smaller and the multiplayer count is cut by two-thirds.

trollpwner:
Well, might as well dive straight in. So, the whole "if you don't have access to the whole F-number-series buttons set, your game is worthless". What? Gaming panels aren't about how many bells and whistles they have, it's about how well they get your commands into the game. And to my mind, when you require a keyboard, that is *require*, not are helped by, then something's wrong. Remember Deus Ex? How fiddling around with 5 different augmentation buttons and 2 different inventory slots when you wanted to run into frantic combat was incredibly complicated and distracted just as much from the game as having to, say, go into a limited menu and open them all there? It doesn't matter how many buttons your game uses, so long as it uses them well. If it uses 1 button and is fun, that's a sucess. If it uses a gamepad, and has to have a few combo button presses for more elaborate moves, that's a success. If it uses a kerboard an requires 50 horrible, finger-twisting button presses to step forward, that's a failure. Seriously, it doesn't matter how much "depth" you can hammer into a 90-button layout, if the game's not fun, why bother?

The option for people who were keyboard challenged was to pause the game, activate the augmentation, and then proceed into the fray like you would have to in the PS2 version. While convenient, I find that this breaks flow.

I also found the F keys extremely useful and easy to remember after using them for a bit. Also, I don't remember inventory "slots". I do remember that you could assign an item from your inventory cubes to a number key (just below the F keys) for quick access. Both were present on the UI in big bold letters. In the PS2 version, the inventory system looked eerily like the one in Invisible War, and without the number key access.

It sucked.

trollpwner:
Oh, and the whole "consoles have less processing power" chestnut. I left that 'till last because it's refreshingly easy. You know what I'm going to do now to chill out? On my I7 with 6GB of ram and my 1GB or GDDR5? I'm going to play tetris. Mutha-fuckin'-tetris. A game that will literally run on my calculator. And you know what? I'm going to enjoy it. Because it's not about processing power, it's all about what you do with it. And before the inevitable cry of luddite hits my ears, I'll say this: I'll give gaming companies more processing power when they deserve it. If gaming companies weren't, say, pissing huge amounts of their budgets down the drain on marketing and making short, shallow and shit games with the leeway current graphics allow, I'd be all over a new console generation/expanding the role of the P.C.. But until then, fuck it. It's now what you've got, it's how you use it.

So rememember: it's all about the game, not the hardware and a good game is where you use what you've got. Also, tetris.

You appear to have changed the argument and your stance.

My post, which I will save you the trouble of digging back:

CrossLOPER:
Developers seem to think that graphics options are a thing of the past. I hate to say it, but because of this, being able to modify games through ini files and editors is kind of necessary. There isn't a game I've played on the PC that didn't need to have its affinity or priority modified through batch programming or some shit.

I blame consoles, as usual.

Also, did the escapist decide to allow yahtzee do his thing this time? They should do that more often.

I argued that if a developer was going to release something for the PC, a mutable unit, they should take the time to add options to accommodate for different spex. This would include those who may not have a computer that can run every game on ultra settings with a huge resolution with 60fps.

Your next assertion from this section is puzzling. If you believe that the games being released today are not good enough to make a solid investment in a platform, why would you purchase something so limited in its scope like a console? To buy one or three games? Again, it would be wiser to invest in something that can be easily modifiable and have as many uses as possible. Again, a good PC need not hit the wallet hard. Look again at the falcon guide.

http://www.se7ensins.com/forums/threads/the-falcon-computer-build-guide.498772/

If you choose wisely and sacrifice HD space, settle for 2GB RAM, and get an OK case, you can easily get a modifiable PC that can run Skyrim just fine on mid settings for about 600-700USD. Most standard usage laptops cost about 300-500USD. A console costs about 250-300USD. Neither is modifiable, at least not in any major way. The two deals assume that the person is generally stationary and does not need a laptop. If they did, depending on their requirements, they could fetch a used one for about 100-200USD. In the worst cases, the PC-laptop combo is about 1100USD, breaking into the thousands territory. The console-laptop deal is about 800USD. There are many factors involved and I can't hope to cover most of the scenarios, but you can apply your own and see what happens.

Keep in mind what happens in ten years; everything that is new and shiny today will be obsolete in ten years and will have to be replaced if one is interested in new releases. What happens to the machines? My Sega Genesis is not seeing much action, while my old PCs have been redistributed to my family members.

I was hoping for a full review to give SB:Heavy Armor the thrashing it deserves but I guess when a games is practically unplayable really what more can you say?

And then every brony went out and bought the game to hear John De Lancie speak some more. =P

Excellent review as always Yahtzee. Just a shame you didn't mention De Lancie's Discord role, although to be fair he is more famous for Q.

CheckD3:
Best things in life come unexpected and without anything to compare it too. That's why Rick Astley will ever be known for only one song and most people won't even know who he is half the time.

Grenge Di Origin:
Inexplicably and undeservedly popular things in life come unexpected and without anything to compare it too. That's why Carly Rae Jepsen will ever be known for only one song and most people won't even know who she is half the time.

:)

Too bad the charm of John De Lancie didn't transfer over to Assassins Creed.

CONGRATULATIONS YAHTZEE FOR DOING A REVIEW FOR EVERY LETTER OF THE ALPHABET! YAAAAAAAAY!
*Celebrate*

let us egg the cunty cottage!

Triforceformer:

Racecarlock:
When yahtzee said he didn't like it I nearly got lockjaw. I guess I'm avoiding this game, then. It looked like the exact thing he would like, too. Then again, yahtzee is the toughest critic in the world, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. I was not expecting him to hate it though. I mean, wow. The gameplay videos looked so good too.

And this is what's wrong with Yahtzee's fanboys. All it takes is for him to express his disapproval towards a game and every facet of YOUR opinion goes out the window. You're doing the exact thing he blasted against in the Mailbox Showdown. You wait for a simple "Yay" or "Nay" and toss out every bit of free will you have if it conflicts with your ideas.

I find Yahtzee's taste in games to be similar to my own. If he dislikes a game, I'm probably going to dislike it. If he likes a game, I'm probably going to like it. If I know he dislikes a particular genre that I'm OK with, I'll ignore his opinion on that genre.

That's exactly what Racecarlock is saying: "I thought Yahtzee would like this, because this is the kind of game he likes. Since he doesn't like it, it must be pretty bad, therefore I'm probably not going to like it, and I'm not going to spend money THAT I CANNOT EVER GET BACK to find out."

Evil Smurf:
let us egg the cunty cottage!

Here is the original post, responding to another:

/*

Quote:
Originally Posted by **** View Post
Since the dawn of the 3D gaming era, PC gamers have been provided the capacity to change, tweak and meddle with graphical settings through simple menus.

Long time PC gamers from around the globe.
*/

/*
TBH, you're not a long time PC gamer if you can't edit a config file nor if you believe that the 'dawn of the 3d gaming era' used menus to change settings - so please change that to reflect the truth :)

The game uses the unreal 3 engine, most of the things in your list (FOV, Vsync and so on) can be changed by editing the config file for the game.

Many of other things really aren't serious are they? This is no graphic and cpu hungry title at all. With the best will in the world, if you don't have a computer that can play this title smoothly on the defaults, you must have a computer from the dawn of 3d gaming :)

PC gamers need a gaming PC. Not a triple-SLI, nitrogen cooled, plutonium powered Pineapple systems 74, but at the least a reasonably fast dual core and reasonable fast graphics card.

The game runs fine without needing lowered resolutions and so on on the recommended hardware. There's a bit of level loading and exit / entry doors to each puzzle, but it's nothing gameplay breaking (and it's far less significant than Portal 2's constant level loading interruptions)

That's all this game needs. But, with the best will in the world, if your computer cannot play this title, I cannot see how you can be a PC gamer? I can't imagine what games you can be playing.

As for the fov and vsync and so on, google should help you find details of changing UT3 config settings - generally speaking the defaults are in E:\Steam\steamapps\common\Quantum Conundrum\Engine\Config (where E: is the drive you have steam installed on) although UT3 games install configs in C:\Users\blah\Documents\My Games\UnrealEngine3 too, where blah is your user account - that said, there are a few of them detailed already in other threads in this forum, perhaps others will appear.
*/

All the user was stating was that a person who styles themselves as a PC gamer should have a reasonably powerful computer to run modern PC games. Again, editing an ini or config file is no big deal. Open up an ini file. If the developer did not have marshmallows between their ears, they added notes that clearly state how and what to alter. Even if they didn't, you can probably guess and five minutes of googling won't kill you.

Anyway, I'm sure Yahtzee was just going for a laugh, but the guy is getting flack back at the forums that I feel he does not totally deserve.

I'm curious now. What are the spex for this game?

Minimum:
OS:Windows 7 SP1
Processor:Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz / AMD Athlon x2 64 3800+
Memory:2 GB RAM
Graphics:GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB / ATI Radeon HD 2900 512 MB
Hard Drive:1.75 GB HD space
Sound:DirectX9 compatible sound card

Recommended:
OS:Windows 7 SP1
Processor:Intel Core 2 Duo 3 GHz E8400
Memory:2 GB RAM
Graphics:nVidia GeForce 9500 GT / ATI Radeon HD 2900
Hard Drive:1.75 GB HD space
Sound:DirectX9 compatible sound card

This game can run on the modern PC equivalent of a toaster; this technology is over four years old, and that is assuming you want to run it on max settings. I am puzzled as to why it only works with windows 7, which is a significant issue here as that cuts out half the market share. I suppose that is why it is so cheap. This is a reasonable complaint.

RvLeshrac:

I find Yahtzee's taste in games to be similar to my own. If he dislikes a game, I'm probably going to dislike it. If he likes a game, I'm probably going to like it. If I know he dislikes a particular genre that I'm OK with, I'll ignore his opinion on that genre.

That's exactly what Racecarlock is saying: "I thought Yahtzee would like this, because this is the kind of game he likes. Since he doesn't like it, it must be pretty bad, therefore I'm probably not going to like it, and I'm not going to spend money THAT I CANNOT EVER GET BACK to find out."

It's still not a good reason to dismiss the game. Remember that even Yahtzee has stated that his reviews are not really reviews and that it would not be funny if he just reviewed stuff he likes.

Also, there's youtube videos and a demo. I generally check those out first.

Honestly, that guy *does* sound like a cunt. I would insult and mock him as well.

I was personally hoping he'd review Amazing Spider-Man. I realize movie games really aren't his thing but he said before that Spider-Man 2 was "fucking awesome" and I'm quite interested to see what his say on the new game.

I feel that just because some peoples discussion can really be capsized by saying 'Yahtzee thought it was good, then I must also'. I personally don't play all the games that come out because I don't have that much of a disposable income. If we all think genuinely, we can actually live life not seeking an agreement with someone who can't see you (not yet at least). I have nothing against watching these videos (in fact I encourage it),but slander is not needed, because even if you hate Yahtzee's guts giving him hate comments just isn't gonna make you stand out any more. It actually counts as a view for him. So he wins no matter what.

I like Yahtzee's work because its an unwind from a week of work. I do a similar thing and I say that he deserves respect for what he does. Yahtzee has allot of torque under the hood. I need to say that he is by far one of the best reviewer/analizer I've seen very funny, and very handy with the programs he uses.

Yahtzee awesome work let your exploits be seen.

gamegod25:
I was hoping for a full review to give SB:Heavy Armor the thrashing it deserves but I guess when a games is practically unplayable really what more can you say?

Not getting reviewed is more than it deserves.

Despite being negative, it still made me interested in checking out the game.

Other reviewers, take note. This is how it's done.

ADDLibrarian:
CONGRATULATIONS YAHTZEE FOR DOING A REVIEW FOR EVERY LETTER OF THE ALPHABET! YAAAAAAAAY!
*Celebrate*

Holy crap I think you're right. Awesome.

Jandau:
Suprisingly enough, a ZP review that's actually accurate. It's a charming game with some nice elements, but the platforming is annoying to all hell, the physics are mildly erratic and the whole thing is repetitive and same-y. I respect what the game is trying to do and I wish more games would try similar things, but that doesn't mean it's particularly good.

Yeah, agreed. They tried to make a joke about why the environments were "samey" by creating Dolly, the replicating machine, but after a while, it fell flat. Also the jokes where the uncle specifically complained that everything looked the same. That said, it was better than nothing at all, I suppose.

The first-person platforming nearly had my head exploding. Most aggravating thing in a game. Doesn't help that I'm primarily a console user. Finally gave up on the slow-mo crawl across rows of flying furniture and grabbed Motion in Joy to turn my PS3 controller into an emulated Xbox controller to use on Steam. *facepalms* But even then, the weird angles of the moving platforms themselves combined with the lack of feet meant I'd die in half or more of the levels.

Most of the puzzles were decent, though few if any were head-scratchers the way Portal 2 could be. Often when I had a problem with the puzzle, it was simply that I'd gotten the angle of a throw wrong. Even managed to grab some collectibles in totally bizarre and much harder ways than the creators intended.

CrossLOPER:
The fact that console developers aim to make consoles more PC like with multiple usage (I personally think this is a mistake). You can argue that "it is cheaper", but what are you buying? I flashy unmodifiable computer with limited usage. It's like a mac, except even more useless. You can't modify it and if a part fails, you have to ship off the entire thing, not matter how minor this issue is because consoles are not designed to be easily repaired.

I also challenge your assertion that PCs are the cause of shitty gameplay and story. Dead Space 3 money issues are the result of the monkey management at EA where making a buck has become the primary objective. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make money, but you should focus on making a good product, not squeezing IP for all it is worth with DLC and shit. Also, the limits of the consoles control make for massive limitations in gameplay. I hated what happened to The Witcher 2. The inventory was nice and neat in the first game and I could use that mouse to move around and prioritize my attacks. Instead, I have to rely on auto aim and mash the left mouse button until everything dies and my inventory is just a giant list of stuff. Why? Because it was easier to program this on the XBOX360.

Oh, and if you have a lame computer, you can always lower the settings to what they would be on a console.

The Mac comparison is apt, but I'm going to beat a dead horse and add my two cents. The console vs. PC debate is closer to the iPhone vs. Android debate. Each user of each OS loves it for entirely opposing reasons. Apple has a closed system which makes it simple and easy to use. You don't have to "make it work." Android is highly modifiable meaning you can almost get it to do whatever you want. I'm a PS3-lover and I avoid Apple like the plague. I'll gladly spend several weeks making a new Android phone work however I want, customizing it to the nth degree, but when it comes to games, I just want the game to play from the second I unwrap the plastic.

Some of the later arguments in this thread, mostly concerning money, kind of miss the point. What you see as a waste of money because of more expensive games, we console owners see as an investment in time. We don't *have* to patch a game, and often on the PS3, there isn't much in the way of installation. But a new PC game can often mean hours of tinkering to find what setting has thrown off your system. And when it comes to games, I just don't feel like it. I'd rather pop it in and press play, maybe watch The Daily Show if it requires an installation.

Plus, what we lose in games, we save on hardware costs. Four years after buying my PS3, and the only thing I've had to replace was the hard drive, and that was optional. My desktop PC on the other hand? Multiple incarnations over the years. Always having to upgrade or add components to run the latest games. My PS3 simply runs them, no modification necessary, no additional costs down the line. It's fixed-cost vs. variable-cost.

But mostly it's iPhone vs. Android.

CrossLOPER:
WORDS

Yes, but he's not just saying "This setting is retarded" or whatever entertaining bullshit, he's saying "The game mechanics are fundamentally broken."

I laughed way harder than I should have at the end...

Captcha: mum's the word
Okay, Captcha's never made sense but this is just ridiculous.

Nice one here. This is the Yahtzee we come here to see.

Kross:

Mydnyght:
All I got out of that video is this:
Yahtzee doesn't give half a fuck that he finally reviewed a game whose title starts with Q and that the Zero Punctuation Alphabet is now complete.

Almost, 'X' is technically "XBLA Double Bill" rather then an individual game. :D

Actually I was thinking of X-Blades, but that too was on a technicality.
It was Graham Stark reviewing it before Yahtzee ejected him to review HALO Wars.
Presumably for April Fool's '09.

Hey, folks. I won an argument with Count von Cunt over his post on the Steam Forums, please quit bad mouthing him now.

Pescetarian:
Hey, folks. I won an argument with Count von Cunt over his post on the Steam Forums, please quit bad mouthing him now.

I always thought Count von Cunt seemed like a nice guy. :(

Harsh but fair. And I'm happy I'm not a cunt. PC elitists are douchebags.

On Steel Battalion I wonder if they patch normal controls in. Kinect is just not working in anything, really. It's Microsoft selling another crappy thing to silly americans by getting a couple of offensively rich black people to advertise it. Check their conferences, pattern is there.

uneek:
Despite being negative, it still made me interested in checking out the game.

Other reviewers, take note. This is how it's done.

This. I mean after looking into it, I don't think I'm going to buy it, but still. At the very least this video raised a few eyebrows that were nestling comfortably at standard level.

TheKasp:

General Vagueness:

I'd say someone reviewing PC games in this day and age should wait a week to 10 days for any early, important patches.

On the other hand, it's a valid point. At this day and age they should have had those options right from the start because I actually disliked the missing of them a bum! I mean a lot.

Also, his reason for not waiting for the patch is good too. He has deadlines and a rather strict list of titles he has to get through, he can't just switch around.

I wasn't suggesting he switch the schedule around, I was suggesting he make the schedule in a way where he won't review games that just got released in the first place if he's going to hold things that get patched against them.

Calling someone a elitist simply by the fact that he knows what he is doing is really stupid.

It is not the guy's fault that you all are not able to really work with your PC's.

Is a architect a elitist because he can plan a house better than you, is a mechanic a elitist because he knows how to fix a car and you not ?

The only problem here is that you guys are to lazy to do some of tje actuall work yourself.
You are used to it that someone will spend hour and maybe days on the problem and then just telling you how to solve it.

How about some autonomy on your part ?

I blame companys like Apple and the consoles in gerneral for that, by simplyfying everything and now nobody knows of the real capabilitys and options of the hard- and software.

Wow, mr Ben Croshaw is really cheap! He somehow can get a DS, a PSP, a 3DS, a PS3, a Xbox 360, a Wii, and all the newest games, but he can't get a laptop that isn't beyond 2006! Even iPhones can handle it now.

Then he has the balls to whine, like it was the game's fault! Well, I couldn't play Portal or half-life 2 because the graphics was too high, so I guess it's okay for me to whine about how awful Valve is. "Portal sucks because I couldn't play it!"

Triforceformer:

Racecarlock:
When yahtzee said he didn't like it I nearly got lockjaw. I guess I'm avoiding this game, then. It looked like the exact thing he would like, too. Then again, yahtzee is the toughest critic in the world, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. I was not expecting him to hate it though. I mean, wow. The gameplay videos looked so good too.

And this is what's wrong with Yahtzee's fanboys. All it takes is for him to express his disapproval towards a game and every facet of YOUR opinion goes out the window. You're doing the exact thing he blasted against in the Mailbox Showdown. You wait for a simple "Yay" or "Nay" and toss out every bit of free will you have if it conflicts with your ideas.

Yeah, some of these posts are kind of disappointing. Yahtzee has his own tastes and inclinations, and the problems he had with the game may not necessarily apply to you. Personally, I didn't take much issue with the first person platforming, and the chasm puzzle he talks about, while difficult, can be solved more than one way.

If you have any interest in Quantum Conundrum, you should at least try the demo to make your own judgement as to whether or not you'd enjoy it.

Somebloke:
Motion blur and depth of field, both. *shudder*
(EDIT: No idea whether QC does the latter - just a general comment.)

DoF and motion blur can be fine when used properly, and by 'properly' I mean subtly. VERY subtly. DoF in particular can add tremendous depth to a scene, but it has to be really, really gently done.

The current favored use of both are cranked up so high it's like smearing Vaseline on your screen, and it's very annoying. Remember when lens flare was the 'in thing', ten or so years ago? Where you could barely see what was going on because of the horrible flare-ring sprites covering the entire screen? Ugh! Same deal: "Ooohhh, look at our sparkly effect we've spent weeks implementing and, just to make sure you don't miss it and can truly appreciate how amazing we are, we've cranked it up to full. Enjoy!"

Over-done motion blur was bad enough when it was simple full screen, but this horrible new pixel-based motion blur, as seen in all Unreal games and titles like The Club is just eye-poppingly bad. It looks terrible and very artificial, IMO.

DiamanteGeeza:

Somebloke:
Motion blur and depth of field, both. *shudder*
(EDIT: No idea whether QC does the latter - just a general comment.)

DoF and motion blur can be fine when used properly, and by 'properly' I mean subtly. VERY subtly. DoF in particular can add tremendous depth to a scene, but it has to be really, really gently done.

The current favored use of both are cranked up so high it's like smearing Vaseline on your screen, and it's very annoying. Remember when lens flare was the 'in thing', ten or so years ago? Where you could barely see what was going on because of the horrible flare-ring sprites covering the entire screen? Ugh! Same deal: "Ooohhh, look at our sparkly effect we've spent weeks implementing and, just to make sure you don't miss it and can truly appreciate how amazing we are, we've cranked it up to full. Enjoy!"

Over-done motion blur was bad enough when it was simple full screen, but this horrible new pixel-based motion blur, as seen in all Unreal games and titles like The Club is just eye-poppingly bad. It looks terrible and very artificial, IMO.

I see what you are saying and there is truth to it - especially when you see wierd effects, where objects are smeared individually, prior to compositing, and display sharp edges (keeping their regular outline) between blurred background and blurred foreground.

I'd say, however, that it's a matter of application: Depth of field is great for cutscenes, the shallower the better, even. It is not so much about getting a sense of depth, as it is making the object in focus pop, literally as well as figuratively.
In gameplay, though, I would like to decide what I am looking at, even if I don't have whatever that may be within my crosshairs.
Who knows; Maybe one day we'll see the effect successfully coupled with precision eye-tracking - that might work - they might even be able to work the LOD systems into that...

As for Motion blur; That is something that exists to compensate for a low frame rate - 24fps for film, traditionally -- in that case produced by choosing film with a suitably long exposure time.
We have come to subconsiously expect the look that that combination of aspects produces (along with aforemented shallow focal range), from professional movies, so the effect certainly does have its place, where the designer makes an artistic choice to emulate a cinematic experience. I could recommend the game "Stacking", which employs both beautifully, to convey both a sense of old-timey cinema and the miniature scale of the scenery.

Cinematography itself, incidently, is moving to 48fps.
Films will look the smoother for it, but there may well be some initial complaints about them looking home-video-ish, if not handled properly.

For general gameplay; If producing the motion blur uses as much processing as just rendering and displaying that extra intermediate full frame, in its crisp glory (and the effect is often produced exactly by rendering extra frames and blending them, sometimes resulting in "ghost images", rather than a "streak"), I think I'd rather have the real frame.

Sorry about the verbosity, but I thought your post deserved the attention.

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