Jimquisition: Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb

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I was alone, in my flat, and I still stood up and clapped loudly for a full minute after you said that infamous catchphrase.

It was that. fucking. good.

Thank god for you, Jim.

Holy Shit Jim! That was amazing. You summed it all up perfectly. You even brought up great arguments I haven't heard from anyone here yet. With all you've mentioned I really doubt they'd go in that direction now, that's assuming their brains are in their skulls.

Thank God for you indeed. This is easily my favourite episode.

Good arguments as usual, but also an amazingly executed finale. I could tell from the last minute that it was going to end in an awesome way!

You know the way the industry acts they must really buy into the argument that video gaming is addictive since there is no other explanation for the way they act about what is a luxury item.

The ending of the vid was true brilliance Jim keep up the good work.

What I am getting here is an attitude indicative of much of our latter day elite. 'Deal with it' has been not just a phrase thrown at consumers, but voters too. You don't like the stuff that we are doing to you and your loved ones? Deal with it.
It represents just what our modern day lords and masters actually think of us. They are so arrogant, so smug, so safe in the invulnerability of their positions, that they feel they can get away with anything. Alas, in this post 1789 world, things aren't quite so simple. As Jim Sterling explained, if you screw up in business, if you become too complacent and take your customers for granted. Then, you exulted position will not last for very long.
The notions of hubris and nemesis have been around for as long as recorded history. Watching it happen in real life does tend to bring a smile to ones face. Nothing keeps you and your fellow man honest than watching those with too much pride crash and burn.

Hey Jim! Great news! People are still whiteknighting in defense of Microsoft's decision!

You know who I want to fucking murder right now? (not you, Jim)

I'm still expecting Microsoft to pull a "LOL, just kidding!" campaign and say they were joking the whole time, and the NextBox won't have any of these DRM practices. If that is the case, they are not going to get the attention and reaction they're hoping for.

I mean, surely to christ they're not that stupid. Surely. The whole stupidity of doing this makes me find it really hard to believe, but lately I've seen some really stupid things in this industry.

I'm actually looking forward to their announcement, to watch as all the gamers boo them loudly off the stage, with maybe a little violence and blood shed. It will be a sight to behold.

The last 40 second of this video are flat out epic.

You have the written transcript of this episode somewhere Jim? :)

This is for me a PR stunt by Microsoft. Think about! Their hardware is already inferior to the PS4, stated by AMD representative, which is the company behind Microsoft new Xbox. The new thing does not have a name other than Xbox 720. They don't want another debacle like three red ring of malfunction.

There is no such thing as bad publicity, there is however no publicity at all.

Nailed it, Jim. That dumb cunt at Microsoft (I'm allowed to say "cunt", I live in Australia, I get the same exception as Yahtzee) is telling us to "deal with it" in the sense of "shut up and buy it". But if that's how he's going to be, we're going to "deal with it" by simply not buying the fucking console.

This is why major companies need to screen their representatives Twitters to make sure they're not retards before letting them do anything.

"A man chooses. A slave tweets his support for every choice". Those are beautiful words Jim :.) Thank God for you!

QUINTIX:
I'll disagree with Kevin Dent here too https://kevin-dent.squarespace.com/blog/2013/4/5/in-the-world-2929
however, I will agree with him & Manveer Heir that the Orth is not deserving the bile he's receiving.

From my bigoted perspective, this vitriol filled reaction to perceived threats (especially anti-feminist ones) is to be expected from our latchkey generation with many of its "young men" staying teenage boys into perpetuity.

The internet gives a voice to people of many ages who want to express threats of violence and hatred. It is presumptuous to single out Generation X (the latchkey generation) for its vitriol given that the entire concept of generations (as a sociological phenomenon) deliberately generalises those people that it describes.

I've always been annoyed by DRM schemes but it wasn't until recently that I took games that I was extremely excited to play and refused them, because of the DRM.

First was Crysis with its SecuROM fiasco, and more recently Diablo 3 and SimCity.

I wonder if the publishers realize just how much effort it takes to make a massive game fan like me turn down an exciting new title. I've gladly spent hundreds on elaborate collector's editions in the past, and even my dedication can not withstand these nonsense DRM schemes.

Now that I've started to train myself to turn down games based on their publishers, and look to the indie scene for fun (at great effort) I'm not going to forget it soon. The (bad) habit of consuming only well known AAA games isn't something that can be un-broken once it's gone.

And this is from a huge game enthusiast here! For lesser fans of the medium, this boat sailed long ago. The mass exodus is underway.

Yes, yes, and double yes! Always online DRM is probably THE reason why I'm not getting the next Xbox, if it really turns out that way.

the future is always on-line!

Microsoft is preparing for the future. Everything will be online within the next 5 years. With the turning out of more powerful phones -- and that, as we speak, already have the capacity to enable Wifi hotspots -- we will see so much more online software saturating the market. We live and breathe our world through an online connection. Every service is promoted for being faster! Carriers constantly battle it out over network coverage and speed; and people choose the carriers not only out of pricing, but because they believe (or hear from others) that its a consistent, solid bars network.

My brother, a Marine at Pensacola (Florida), Skypes with me whenever he is on. If I wasn't always online, I would not know when he is calling to Skype.

image

I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents -- it's their word processor, and that they can access from anywhere.

It's always dangerous to underestimate the future.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know just how much bandwidth the XBox 360 uses when you're logged into an XBox Live-attached account, but the game you're playing isn't online? As an example - Skyrim?

Captcha: "think hard". Telepathic captchas can't be legal, can they?

Great episode Jim and I fully agree with your points.

Having an always on DRM for a console is by far the most stupid thing I've ever heard in my life.

Haven't these people been watching anything that has happened in the past years at all? When was this a good idea? Are they trying to bury themselves into the ground by alienating the customers that do not have either a good internet connection or any at all, which they are a lot of. (all rethorical questions by the way since we all know the answers to that).

I'll stick to my PC where I can play my games offline in case my internet fails me. I also have some non steam games off GoG as a backup in case this happens.

Very well thought out, explained, and articulated.

The thing is though that I think the gaming industry as a whole is banking on the increasing rise of gamers who have never known anything but being exploited sheep. They pretty much rode the storm out, ignoring the complaints of gamers whom they realized would be coming back for their products no matter what they did... much like a Junkie does with an abusive dealer when there is nobody else to get their fix from. The big comment made by the publishers nowadays seems to be that there are a number of young 20-something gamers, starting to make their own money in substantial enough quantities to be a marketing force, who have never known anything but exploitation. It's easy for them to look at their angry elders, mostly 30 to 40 something Gen Xers, and be dismissive because for them this is how things always were, and they happen to be used to it. What's more for "Generation Y" there is a relatively bright future ahead as they are coming into their own when the Baby Boomers are retiring. The recession and sociological realities that decimated Generation X aren't as big a deal for them, and they generally don't worry too much about the cost of luxuries, especially in the future. Case in point in bebopping around a few MMOs nowadays it seems that the "hip" thing for
some people to do is tell anyone who complains about being nickeled and dimed, or aren't excited about the next big MMO or viewing it's suspected way of making money with alarm, that they are "pissed because they won't be able to afford it" complete with LOLs and other disparaging comments. In short it's a lot like what's being reported on twitter.

I think the gaming industry as a whole is pretty much looking towards this generation and that attitude as it's big salvation, and truthfully I am beginning to think that predictions of a crash might be premature simply because most of them are based on consumers from "our" generation getting fed up with this and how we're starting to wise up and turn our back on the practices. That doesn't consider what happens when a conditioned Generation Y hits the market and props it right back up. Like any new generation they outnumber us, and truthfully the industry doesn't care at that point if they lose our business or how loyal we were, or how integral to their development or becoming a big business like this.

I could be wrong about that, and hopefully I am, it's a fairly recent way of thinking for me, but it's something I can't entirely ignore. "Always On DRM" might have caused some problems with companies, but I think they are sticking with it, due to the benefits like how it lets them spy, limit used games, and just generally gives them intrudive power they can use for marketing if nothing else, but I think they stick with it for a reason, and I seem to remember they more or less saying as much during the Simcity debacle.

As far as big wigs in the gaming industry losing their jobs, I suspect it's because a lot of those people made promises about being able to succeed with the market as it is now, and failed. Their careers being a blip in the overall plan.

I will hopefully be proven wrong however.

That said, I'm personally against the entire "always on" idea, as well as the concept of DRM in general. With consoles I consider it paticularly terrifying, largely because it seems like an attempt to pretty much make premium gaming services nessicary. In order to have a console your going to have to pay an internet provider, probably top dollar for a very fast "gaming quality" connection, and then doubtlessly have to pay the console company money in addition to fully use that connection for their games. Normally it would sound insane, but just think of how many people pay membership fees to "X-Box Live", it didn't exactly die. To be honest while Sony never did go fully in the same direction (their premium online service mostly just giving extras) I think it would be foolish to assume that a company as greedy as Sony isn't looking at the success of XBL and making plans to charge for basic functionality.

Adon Cabre:
I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents

And if they lose their connection for any reason, they're screwed. Since we're not close to that point of technology, not number of claims of DA FYOCHOOR!!! changes matters on shred.

What we need to demand as consumers is legislation that the EULA for any product is presented to the purchaser before they hand over there money. As far as I can see it, the truly criminal act is that we are asked to purchase the product, install it, get to right at that playable state, so close you can taste it, then we are asked to sign away our rights to complain or return it. If we imposed a law that before any product requiring an End User Licence Agreement which specifies that purposes for which the product can be used and the retained rights of the manufacturer must be presented before purchase and the customer must demonstrate there understanding of these rights before a sale can be made then the whole situation would likely turn itself around. We could make you pass a quiz to see if you understood the EULA.

Any game with a long and confusing EULA would automatically lose sales because people couldn't understand it. Any game with anti-consumer stipulations in it's EULA would have to be knowingly accepted before money had been put down. This would encourage people to make games which are cheep knock-off of the AAA games which don't have the baggage associated with the top tier titles which would be good for the industry, it shows when budgets have gone out of control.

The more I think on it the more it sickens me, bundling services with physical products, selling the product in a free-and-clear manner and pretending that the essential service is a different sale. If i go and buy an iPhone and then don't agree to the EULA on the device did i just buy a 300$ paperweight? NO! I purchased the product with the expectation of service and if the product is sold before the terms of service for the necessary services of operation are agreed upon, i am owed compensation or satisfaction.

Most stores don't like to take back opened products but if the only way to figure out i did not like the terms of service was to install the product what recourse do I have to decline?

Someone make a gif of jim deal with it.

daxterx2005:
Someone make a gif of jim deal with it.

image

It's pretty awesome. And like, the second comment on the facebook link.

Jim touched on this, but I'm going to go a bit further.

The core cause of the current big publisher collapse that we're seeing in slow motion occurring right now is that publishers aren't scared of the consumers. That's right, I said it. In the past, publishers were worried about sales not making profit due to not getting the word out well enough. They were scared of us so they did their damdest to make sure that they were looking to earn customer loyalty because they could not afford to do so.

Today though? Not happening. Publishers not only aren't worried about earning customer loyalty, they expect it and demand it by essentially threatening us. They put review embargoes up, institute always on DRM, threaten to cancel accounts for consumer exercising legal rights, hack up required game content to sell piece meal, etc. because they think they hold the power. Publishers used to serve the role of providing marketing and promotion for developers and their products, now they actively hinder those efforts because they think people will buy the crap anyways. They think customer loyalty and income is some unlimited resource that they can constantly pull more out of with no recourse to feed their bloated business model.

Let's be blunt: NO. IT'S. NOT.

It's going to happen soon as indie markets start getting more refined and crowdfunding holds steady, putting out quality games for far cheaper and earn that loyalty that big publishers realize they don't hold the power that they think. It's time to make the big ticket publishers afraid of us again. It's time they earn that loyalty instead of expecting it. And if they can't? Screw em. Despite what the US Congress thinks, no business is too big to fail. The funeral pyre of the burning shreds of their business will be lovely during a clear, starry night.

Adon Cabre:

the future is always on-line!

Microsoft is preparing for the future. Everything will be online within the next 5 years. With the turning out of more powerful phones -- and that, as we speak, already have the capacity to enable Wifi hotspots -- we will see so much more online software saturating the market. We live and breathe our world through an online connection. Every service is promoted for being faster! Carriers constantly battle it out over network coverage and speed; and people choose the carriers not only out of pricing, but because they believe (or hear from others) that its a consistent, solid bars network.

My brother, a Marine at Pensacola (Florida), Skypes with me whenever he is on. If I wasn't always online, I would not know when he is calling to Skype.

image

I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents -- it's their word processor, and that they can access from anywhere.

It's always dangerous to underestimate the future.

What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.

Christ, I need to save up and find out how to get a good PC built,every thing I have been hearing lately makes me reconsider buying a console at all.

I don't often find myself agreeing with the entirety of a Jimquisition, until now.

Beyond the fact that I already pretty much abandoned my xbox in favor of my PC simply due to the ability to play any game it has plus every old computer game I got kicking around. To not be backwards compatible is insane, and with always online DRM there is a real risk of the server just being turned off in future. Even look at diablo 3. I love the diablo series, and picked up diablo 3 right at midnight on the launch. The damn server issues were so frustrating to me, I said screw the whole thing and am happily playing diablo 2 again.

That's even before getting into the internet connection issues. I live in Canada, and there is enough rural space out here that I don't always have a solid broadband connection, and Im lucky if I get any connection at all. I specifically bought an xbox for my cousin because he doesn't have an internet connection, and could play call of duty and the like with his brothers. Certainly not something I could do if online DRM was required.

I think the main problem with the whole DRM/online debate is that the most affected people won't have their voice heard by the AAA gaming lords. The people that have no internet aren't able to spam them with twitter or email. Its silly that the people who have no internet and therefore play offline, have no way to really communicate effectively back that they dont want online only. Its not like phone companies say "If you have a problem with not being able to call people and want to let us know, be sure to call us". Its just silly.

harryhenry:

Adon Cabre:
snip

What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.

My Grandparents immigrated from Mexico because they wanted to provide a better life for their children and grandchildren (like me). Today, I live in California, a state that is thriving in viticulture (Napa Valley), technology (Silicon Valley), sea ports (Los Angeles); and it possesses one of the greatest national parks in the world, Yosemite. All this, and we're about to hit a major recession because of our unbelievable state debt.

I've often thought about moving, but from where I live -- and which is an hour from Sacramento (our capital), two hours from the Pacific, and two hours from Yosemite -- I can visit San Francisco on a Friday, go snowboarding on Saturday, and then protest our state congress that Sunday while watching an American Football Game on my Samsung Galaxy S.

I'm sorry, what I mean to say is: Location, location, location.

Zachary Amaranth:

Adon Cabre:
I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents

And if they lose their connection for any reason, they're screwed. Since we're not close to that point of technology, not number of claims of DA FYOCHOOR!!! changes matters on shred.

It's very hard to lose a connection in California, because the internet carrier suffers the most when you decide to move onto another. I had fast internet at work, college and at home; and not to mention my cell phone.

I love it, I started thinking about the console games that I've played in the last 12 months.
Tales of Symphonia - GC
Resident Evil 4 - GC
Resident Evil 0 - GC
Grandia 2 - PS2
Grandia - SPS
Parasite Eve 2- SPS

I really don't even want a new console, they all suck atm anyway, I'll stick to my old games :D

Man, like I didn't have enough reasons to skip out on this gen already.

The last console I bought was a PS3. At the rate the AAA industry is going, it'll probably be the last console I buy ever, or at least for a long time. Looks like the PC camp has a new member.

Instead of writing a brand new response to the option's Mr Sterling raised in his fine video today I have simply collated my posts I made in another thread here at the escapist discussing the same thing so I apologize if there a bit disjointed.

Also Jim would have been spot on if the NEXT was a simply "gaming consoles" and its not so it seems he's missed the point completely.

Right of the bat people have to stop thinking as Microsoft as a game company, I also think referring to the xbox as part of Microsoft's gaming division or saying Microsoft even has a gaming divisions as a whole is oxymoronic as Microsoft has a MEDIA ENTERTAINMENT division and that's a completely different thing.

Ever since the first Xbox was released it has been Microsoft's intent to provide a content distribution system that is accepted as a standard device in a living room simply because pcs never really have been and the end goal of this strategy has always been to become a MAJOR PLAYER in the digital distribution market with each console offering more and more functions besides gaming.

The issue is that Apple bet them to the punch with iTunes and the explosion of the popularity of the idevice, ever since then they have been scrambling to regain a market share that they felt they lost before they even had there foot properly in the door.

So let's apply this paradigm to the NEXT box, let's say the NEXT box comes out and 90% of its sub functions are locked behind an online gate and said functions that they have locked away are aimed at digital distribution of movies, music, streaming tv, etc. Then add into the equation the fact that a very large portion of common society still doesn't have a damn clue what they're doing when it comes to digital distribution, it would be highly advantageous for Microsoft to start marketing there next console as always online as it would alleviate all the BS that comes from a customer not understanding why half the functions there device offers are not functional as if they have to "connected to the net to have it work from the start" so most of the extra crap would function out of the box.

I totally agree that the fact that being online would be a deterrent to at least a third of their potential customer base but if those customer are only using the machine to play games which Microsoft get a much smaller cut from them profit wise vs say a digital music sale on a unit by unit basis why would they expend resources/effort trying to keep them.

So focusing on those people who do buy it and use it online as a digital distribution machine would more than make up for the lost customer basis and thus the concept of dead commercial weight is applicable i.e. where keeping existing customer happy far outweighs the benefits of focusing on bringing in new customers after a different more cost effective service.

I also agree that most modern smart tvs have all the functions that a xbox offers built in but as I have stated previously most common users don't even understand this stuff let alone set it up or use it and Microsoft have MASSIVE brand recognition with the Xbox as a media extending online thingy already and people are used to comfort and convenience so if they are used to the Xbox name as well as the functionality already for that type of stuff they will stick with it, which brings me to my next point.

Do you have any clue how excited most media company would be by the concept of a locked down media distribution system for home use with even a portion of the xboxs current market share? I guarantee you there's a lot of music executives getting rather excited by the prospect right now as it offers drm control ON ALL stuff sold via the network, and Microsoft would be looking to please the people who own IP rights on this type of stuff now more than ever as making fat stacks of cash for selling other peoples product on your own digital distribution networks is a very lucrative industry practice just ask valve.

Look at what Microsoft did with window's 8 a large portion of its new functionality is expressly designed to make it easier for the customers to buy crap from them and with brand named services like skype that they are building into the console as a base function I can see how there marketing push for the thing will have VERY little to do with gaming (it will be a afterthought).

This is also self-evident if you look at their actual game output as a company, they used to fund more game development BEFORE the advent of the xbox and there actual game division has only got smaller over time (Ensemble I shall for ever morn ye!).

I also wouldn't be surprised if they severely decrease the cost of live with the NEXT or even make it free outside of paying for your actual subscriptions to services (netflix) or for multiplayer gaming, and I would be very surprised if they don't have some type of limited offline mode for games as all games will be force installed to a hard drive anyway according to other news on the console and I expect them to start trying to push the zune/window's phone/window's 8 shared infrastructure a lot more through marketing/sales and those work on an account locked offline model so why wouldn't the NEXT.

I think we simply have to accept that all the mega bucks in the gaming/personal entertainment field are in selling and marketing to the majority and we (dedicated gamers) are NO LONGER THE MAJORITY OF A CONSOLES SALES MARKET!

I also probably won't buy one for myself. Well in till there are some universally cool mods available for it, at which stage since it force installs all game to a hard drive im expecting "the scene" to mod in NoCd.xex support which will lead to a FLOOD of piracy kinda like pc (.xex is the xbox executable extension).

But i will be selling them if a customer asks for one and i expect there to be descent demand for them, as opposed to the WiiU which i have only sold 13 of since release (and i haven't bought one for myself yet either).

The main point is that dedicated gamers are being deluded if they think there (our) numbers matter in the long run.

Also has anyone stopped to think that Microsoft might be simply getting ahead of the curb on this one, even Sony thinks that by the time the PS5 roles around game streaming services like on live will dominate the gaming scene and Microsoft might be aiming for the NEXT to be the last console they ever make as by the time the PS5 arrives they can simply start using the grunt of the NEXT to stream games from a dedicated server and that means once again our short term hatred for the thing is meaningless in the long term.

Also its pretty much confirmed that BLURAY will be the last form of physical media advancement we ever get outside of SSD's and it has a BLURAY drive.

Remember its already confirmed the thing will work with any old usb device as storage and its rumoured that it will have 2.5' sata bay as well which will just lead more credence to the concept that its designed to be around for quite a while and is aimed at digital distribution of entertainment first and foremost.

The real solutions to everyone woes, GET A DECENT SHUTTLE PC with a ps3 or 360 control and bind them to it and install steam.

And if it's to "pcey" for you pay a nerd to customize the ass out of it so its user friendly.

Seriously EVERYTHING you all want is perennially available on a pc (universal backwards compatibility, offline mode etc) and i bet you can get one for less than a new console at launch and there open ended architecture, so you can swap out cards when its underpowered instead of buying a brand new console every 5 years.

So pc, less expensive, offers more for much less, plus 1 billion other reasons, and everyone seems to hate where newer consoles are going, so why are ppls still obsessed with gaming on them (consoles that is)?

Also the fact that so many people are bitching about the lock out of pre-owned games from the system are also missing the point. The modern paradigm is to sell a game digitally for less than it would cost to buy a game pre-owned and if you can't afford to buy a brand new game at launch for $30 then you can't afford gaming which is a luxury pastime.

Case point I can name at least 6 different sites that have steam cdkeys for bioshock infinite right now for only $30 and at such a low sales marker for brand new product WTF is a pre-owned market even needed?

But then I liked deus ex invisible war so all my options should be seen as those of a ranting mad man :)

Adon Cabre:

harryhenry:

Adon Cabre:
snip

What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.

My Grandparents immigrated from Mexico because they wanted to provide a better life for their children and grandchildren (like me). Today, I live in California, a state that is thriving in viticulture (Napa Valley), technology (Silicon Valley), sea ports (Los Angeles); and it possesses one of the greatest national parks in the world, Yosemite. All this, and we're about to hit a major recession because of our unbelievable state debt.

I've often thought about moving, but from where I live -- and which is an hour from Sacramento (our capital), two hours from the Pacific, and two hours from Yosemite -- I can visit San Francisco on a Friday, go snowboarding on Saturday, and then protest our state congress that Sunday while watching an American Football Game on my Samsung Galaxy S.

I'm sorry, what I mean to say is: Location, location, location.

so basically, "MOVE TO A BETTER PLACE, NEANDERTALS, BECAUSE THE FUTURE, BITCH!" is what you're saying?
edit: also, yosemite has a giant supervolcano underneath, and in san fransisco, a giant earthquake can destroy an entire city, and that earthquake has a 99% chane oof happening within the next 20 years.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy gets fired soon for the tweeter comments.

I'm always online 99% of the time, but god forbid when I'm knee deep in a game my modem resets itself or on their end the server resets it self and I lose progress in my game and can do nothing but sit on my butt till it comes back.

I'm waiting for the next kicker " we make you be online all the time with our console, but you still have to pay 60 a year if you want to be online and play and chat with anyone.

I just know I'll be staying away from anything that requires it online all the time.

harryhenry:

Adon Cabre:

harryhenry:
snip

so basically, "MOVE TO A BETTER PLACE, NEANDERTALS, BECAUSE THE FUTURE, BITCH!" is what you're saying?
edit: also, yosemite has a giant supervolcano underneath, and in san fransisco, a giant earthquake can destroy an entire city, and that earthquake has a 99% chane oof happening within the next 20 years.

That's some funny stuff! but basically... yeah. Spot on. Just move, or wait until Australia catches up. I, however, have no idea how anything goes on down there. Oh well.

Anyone who thinks making a always online gaming Consule in order for it to function is a good idea should be grounds to cleanse them from this world. They're either too stupid or morally bankrupt to continue contributing anything to society. This does not need to ever happen and defeats the things good about consules. Sometimes the internet goes out due all kinds of stuff. There's endless things that can and will go wrong. Horrible idea, no matter how much developers think they d get to keep from gamestop or other sources from getting on the used market, this is the epitome of diminshing returns.

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