Videogame Theater: Donkey Kong vs Mario: A Barrel of Hope

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Oh, that's a good point. He's in the credits for a few crank yankers episodes.

VGT Scott Chernoff:

Rayavaro:
I thought it was pretty funny. Everyone's taste of humor just differs!

Thanks, Rayvaro... and thanks sort of Melaisis.

The rest of you, of course, couldn't be more wrong.

But I do sort of enjoy seeing how up-in-arms you get about a puppet video...

How can we be wrong? It's an opinion.

That was just my way of saying I disagree with your opinion. (Insert smiley face emoticon here.)

VGT Scott Chernoff:
That was my way of saying I disagree with your opinion. (Insert smiley face emoticon here.)

Right.

To be honest, and blunt, the past two really were really bad. I know you and others worked hard to make this series, but it is no where near as good as you seem to think it is.

However, instead of denying this negative feedback, use it to your advantage. Go back to the drawing board.

Just my two cents.

Not denying that your feedback has been negative, Gahars. Keep those posts coming, folks - glad you're watching and hope you enjoy the next one!

I can take the criticism if you can take the fact that I disagree with it.

So the Director is disagreeing with his target audience? Dude, you ARE Uwe Boll.

Your thesis (and that of a few others) is that if a handful of anonymous message board dwellers say VGT sucks, then I should automatically agree, roll over, and apologize.

Not really, but if most of the posters say VGT sucks, then you're failing to hit your core demographic. ZP/De-Rez still suck sometimes, but then they come back and nail the core.

This hasn't even made me smile yet.

*sigh*

Haha root... I guess I've let myself stumble into the trap of responding to individual attacks and I shouldn't be so defensive. Still not sure why you would think anyone would suddenly stop believing in their own work just because of some negative comments on a message board, but like I said, I'll stop getting into the back-and-forth and just answer questions and enjoy you guys bashing away.

Thanks, Kross & Rayavaro for speaking up, and thanks everyone else for your... um... input. Can't wait to read more!

You should get a star-rating system put in so the tens of thousands of unspoken for, non-members (as well as those who voice their opinion) can let their voices be heard through the process of voting on the quality of the video.

VGT Scott Chernoff:
Still not sure why you would think anyone would suddenly stop believing in their own work just because of some negative comments on a message board, but like I said, I'll stop getting into the back-and-forth and just answer questions and enjoy you guys bashing away.

Not what I said. Believe me that I'm a writer and it's one of the toughest lessons that you HAVE to listen to what your public think, blend it into your own vision and go from there. Whilst there's not been a great deal of constructive criticism, take a quick look at Melaisis's point where he believes there are overly long pauses. There's a positive hint to keep it short and snappy to keep the ball rolling, despite you maybe feeling that it's a emotional moment. Work with you audience instead of in spite of them.

Hell, do a mailbag showdown with one of the puppets; that'll get you attention. We're not just bitching, it's just the last two haven't been funny to us.

I really don't understand how you could say my humble opinion was wrong, that smacks of just a little too much hubris.

Want it a little more constructive? Well, the production values are high, that's cool, nice puppetry combined with blue screen.

Where it breaks down as I said before is the humor is coming off at best groan worthy and at worst cruel. Maybe that is the point, make cutesy video game characters of old look decrepit in a behind the scenes kind of way.

What I would do differently if I was involved with the writing any would be to increase the amount of inside jokes that reference other parts in silly ways, which saw used with the Pac Man kid clone, Donkey Kong Jr, and Luigi. Such as, have a future version of Mario, Donkey Kong, Peach, etc show up to comedic effect and objects in the game world could be used in silly ways. The needle in the arm and the gun to the head just seem to break with what could be silly and instead come off as revoltingly dark. The best part for me were things like the Rampage screens, references to other games tying in silly ways, and the seeing of the old level in puppet form.

So I ask again, a little differently, was I supposed to find this funny or tragic? One doesn't succeed and the other does, so it would be interesting if this was meant to be a tragedy and my expectations coming into it were at odds with that.

Yeah. Okay, this is bordering on anti-humor now. Like if this and something actually funny ever came in contact, there'd be a massive explosion.

Squishface Mcgloop:
Oh, that's a good point. He's in the credits for a few crank yankers episodes.

Not exactly something to be proud of: 'Hey, I make the puppets for a show where they make harrassing phone calls to total strangers who don't deserve it'.

HalfShadow:

Squishface Mcgloop:
Oh, that's a good point. He's in the credits for a few crank yankers episodes.

Not exactly something to be proud of: 'Hey, I make the puppets for a show where they make harrassing phone calls to total strangers who don't deserve it'.

Hey I don't think they desirve that kind of abuse bringing up old work like that. I think I saw that show once. I'm almost positive it was really good for the 1.5 seasons it was on tv. I'm sure it had nothing to do with them riding jimmy Kimmels coat tails or anything like that or that they had more special guest than a Jerry's Kid Telethon. No i'm sure it was awsome for that 12:00am time slot they had on monday nights after the Girls gone wild infomercial. Nofor real though it was great(AS I SHAKE MY HEAD NO)

Rayavaro:

I'm pretty sure most of the guys here are 25 or over. This kind of comedy I think is more built towards the younger crowd like me which has as of yet not crossed that line. I think it's funny how people find humor in ZP and not this. Sure they are different genres of comedy, but all together they both fall under the same umbrella which this all focus towards and that's VIDEO GAMES if you didn't know already. So I think it is unfounded when most of the people come on here and bash this kind of video when they are not the ones it's being targeted too. I found it funny, but what does that say about me? I like this kind of stuff!

I'm 16. And I enjoyed Crank Yankers. This isn't anywhere near my cup of tea.

Well, I thought Crank Yankers had some pretty dynamic moments and it was a great idea for a show... this Video Game Theatre doesn't exactly pull me in, I mean even if you think it's funny... it's not laugh-out-loud funny, and it's not "Own the complete box set on DVD for $300" funny... it's just... there...

Maybe it'll get better over time

A Few People:
Target audience!

Creator:
anonymous message board users

Ouch.

I would initially go about this as I did with De-Rez; saying that it is great that The Escapist is taking a huge new direction in attempting to appeal to the newcomers and a more... open audience. That's great, and I'm sure its doing wonders for ad revenue. However, it is not keeping the community happy and may I remind you it is the likes of the community that help carve the forum into something special. It is not the fact that these 'thousands of other viewers' who enjoy the likes of VGT don't even bother to post productive content themselves, or read the written features that bothers me; but rather that they just aren't us. Sure, there may be tonnes of kids out there which really eat this sort of stuff up, but it is only us forum frequenters (what? 'Anonymous message board users'? Yeah, thanks for that) which are the only ones willing to put time and effort into giving video-makers half-decent feedback. Just because viewcounts are high, it doesn't mean that people are enjoying it, after all; especially if we consider the so-called 'vocal 'minority''.

Heck, I love this concept and format, but I hate to see the way it is pulled off. How do you ever expect to get better at making videos if you consistently play King of Incompetence and only listen to the praise?

That's not rhetorical; I'm genuinely curious.

....Wow. That was... interesting? I saw puppets (+), I saw puppets that look like the characters they are supposed to be (+)... then it went wrong. It just lacked jokes, well i'm fairly sure it made some but i'll be damned if i could find them. Just calling Donkey Kong a stupid ape is not really a joke. The "jokes" need to be punchier (Urealms actually makes me laugh out loud since its believable, Mario being racist isn't funny. Is that an American thing to focus on racism? I have quite a few American friends who use it in comedy alot) It could also do with being shorter, if your jokes are repeatative then the show needs to be shorter.

CanadianWolverine:
I really don't understand how you could say my humble opinion was wrong, that smacks of just a little too much hubris.

CanadianWolverine:
So I ask again, a little differently, was I supposed to find this funny or tragic? One doesn't succeed and the other does, so it would be interesting if this was meant to be a tragedy and my expectations coming into it were at odds with that.

Ha, well Wolverine, the word "wrong" was meant a bit more playfully than it's been taken, but I'd agree that you and I (most of us here, probably) are both guilty of a little too much hubris in our posts. I also agree it's silly of me to get into defending VGT - it's not my intent to argue with anyone here. I must admit I've been a bit taken aback by some of the hostility unleashed in here. I guess the videogame community is a bit more rough-and-tumble than the puppet world.

I do hear the negative criticism and take it in, but I think one of the more insightful things someone said as far as explaining the reaction here was Squishface saying something like, "try to go for the videogame audience, not the comedy audience," and indeed I'm not missing that most of the things people in this forum seem to like are the little videogame in-jokes and references. The thing is that VGT is a comedy show that is not meant to solely appeal to hardcore videogame fans - now, whether or not you think we succeeded is another matter, but the show is not aimed only at members of this forum. That is not meant as a slight, Melaisis, it's just the way it is.

Of course, I want everyone to like the show - it's not fun to read some of the more mean-spirited attacks. I'm aware that you guys represent a segment of the audience, and it's valuable to me to learn how this part of the audience likes (or doesn't like) the show and why. I can respect your opinions, but if you actually made a show, I wouldn't expect you to change your opinion on it just because I stated mine. I do listen to them all, and from now on I'm going to try to respond less, because personally I feel the show speaks well for itself and I'm still extremely proud of it, and thrilled that Russ and the folks at the Escapist wanted it on the site. I wish the forum community liked it as we do, but as VGT continues, I hope you all continue to watch and maybe you will like what you see. I appreciate the more constructive criticism I can find in this forum, but I need to stop responding to individual arguments because it makes me look and feel silly.

I'm still here though and happy to answer questions, like the one quoted above. Answer: this episode is meant to be both a comedy and a tragedy. Sort of like this thread!

VGT Scott Chernoff:

I do hear the negative criticism and take it in, but I think one of the more insightful things someone said as far as explaining the reaction here was Squishface saying something like, "try to go for the videogame audience, not the comedy audience," and indeed I'm not missing that most of the things people in this forum seem to like are the little videogame in-jokes and references. The thing is that VGT is a comedy show that is not meant to solely appeal to hardcore videogame fans - now, whether or not you think we succeeded is another matter, but the show is not aimed only at members of this forum.

Thats not neccessarily true at all. Two of the most popular segments of the Escapist involve very little in the way of in-jokes and references. For example, I've played videogames with some of the cast of De Rez and they know next to nothing about videogames. They just pick something funny about a specific game and expand upon it. However the characters in that Mario game had their "personalities" if you would perverted into your requirements, thus they aren't funny, if you want to do parody you can't deviate. It'd be like plagerising an essay on literature but using a sociology paper, pointless and confusing to those who read it.

VGT Scott Chernoff:

Squishface Mcgloop:
Although I have to say I loved seeing DK.JR play the Atari 2600.

Actually, he was using a 2600 joystick but the game was a Vectrex. (Anyone remember Vectrex?) Glad you liked it.

Used to have one, actually. Loved that damn thing.

Vectrex was awesome. How about Galaxy II? I've got one of those and it's pretty sweet.

Once they find a target audience for Dreamcast it will be leading the console race.

Kross:
Whatever your opinions on the humor (and I'm sure they are still feeling the audience out), the puppeteering and production quality were great. Very reminiscent of Crank Yankers, which had puppets from the same guy (BJ Guyer), and I remember as being hilarious.

I think once they find their target for the jokes, this series will be top notch.

I'm with Kross because he has a cool name and because everyone said that De Rez was horrible and now they can't get enough of it. Things get better around here, they never get worse so hold some optimism for crying out loud.

Melaisis:
Heck, I love this concept and format, but I hate to see the way it is pulled off. How do you ever expect to get better at making videos if you consistently play King of Incompetence and only listen to the praise?

That's not rhetorical; I'm genuinely curious.

Sing it, sister!

You guys have the puppeting down to an art form. However, I caught myself fast-forwarding to see if anything funny would happen.

That was just my way of saying I disagree with your opinion. (Insert smiley face emoticon here.)

:D
:o
C:
(:
:]
=]

Choose your faviorate. :D

De Rez changed cast, writers and drastically changed style. These have already been made. Slightly differnt situation

Logie--bear:

Rayavaro:

I'm pretty sure most of the guys here are 25 or over. This kind of comedy I think is more built towards the younger crowd like me which has as of yet not crossed that line. I think it's funny how people find humor in ZP and not this. Sure they are different genres of comedy, but all together they both fall under the same umbrella which this all focus towards and that's VIDEO GAMES if you didn't know already. So I think it is unfounded when most of the people come on here and bash this kind of video when they are not the ones it's being targeted too. I found it funny, but what does that say about me? I like this kind of stuff!

I'm 16. And I enjoyed Crank Yankers. This isn't anywhere near my cup of tea.

I'm fifteen, bizzaz. Not all youth are into this stuff.

The first one of these was painfully predictable, but I said I'd give the second one a watch. The humour is not to my taste, it seems aimed at the eleven to thirteen age group and I'm not certain that's home territory for the Escapist.

Pac-Man requires a knowledge of videogame history that puts the target audience at thirty-something, but the humour seems aimed at a much younger viewer. The characters chosen suggest that the Escapist would be a good fit for these videos, but the 'juvenile' style of humour seems more suited to a site with a much younger demographic. (Unless that's just what the editorial team are hoping to attract with these videos)

Lastly, I see nothing in Scott's responses that suggest that he's looking to improve on what he's already done. If there was an element of 'We're really going to work on improving this when we write some more', then I'd have some cause for optimism. Actually, all I hear is 'These are great, you're all wrong' which means that even if another 12 get written when the current 'series' have all been shown, they'll do the same sorry thing all over again.

I'm not going to watch any more of these, my personal opinion is that it fails as comedy and it's misplaced at the Escapist. (But I'm just an anonymous message board dweller)

I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed that the same people who appreciate the raw third rail brilliance of Zero Punctuation (and the man is brilliant, make no mistake) cannot see the same quality in Scott's work.

I'm not going to explain the humor, because that is always a fool's errand. Akin to describing the color blue to a blind man. I've been a longtime fan of Channel 101 and Channel 101 NY (Channel 102) from way back. I'd rather watch any one of their "failed" pilots on any given night than 99% of the content on cable.

I'll go one step further... Channel 101 (of which Scott is a cornerstone member) is the most potent collection of comedic talent -- easily on par with Monty Python, SCTV, or the Not Ready for Prime Time Players -- to come down the pike in a long, long while. Too bold? Is my fanboy showing? Time will validate that remark, whether it meets with approval here or not.

Too much brown nosing? Take it.

And by dribs and drabs, their group is penetrating the mainstream.

I loved (loved, not liked) both of the VGT episodes and eagerly anticipate future installments.

Finally, if you go to these sites, peruse some of Scott's work, and can't find SOMETHING amusing, I honestly don't know what to say to you. You're lost, brother.

Andy and Scott videos
http://www.andyandscott.com/video.htm

Scott Chernoff at Channel 101
http://www.channel101.com/talent/talent.php?talent_id=23

The Escapist's new direction is exciting to behold and the community is privileged to have Scott's work, whether they realize it or not. Two episodes in, I loved them both, but the best is yet to come.

Also, I find some of the remarks directed at Scott condescending. As if he somehow "needs to improve" in order to receive a delicious vanilla wafer and a pat on the head for his efforts. This guy is Iverson with ankle breaking crossovers. He'll get his shot off.

Appreciate.

Nice way to introduce yourself there.

I liked this one alot more then the last one. Not funny, but rather sweet.

Let's hope they keep improving!

Crap_haT:
Nice way to introduce yourself there.

Don't speak to the dead man, please.

Harry Tatcher:
I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed that the same people who appreciate the raw third rail brilliance of Zero Punctuation (and the man is brilliant, make no mistake) cannot see the same quality in Scott's work.

They are not the same quality. Most of the Zero Punctuation episodes are side-splitting hilarious. Yahtzee has received thousands of comments singing his praises. VGT has gotten mostly negative feedback, with the odd complement thrown in here and there. The only good thing Video Game Theater has is the theme song. (Seriously, that's a cool song.) Other than that, VGT has nothing going for it.

thedrop2zer0:

Harry Tatcher:
I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed that the same people who appreciate the raw third rail brilliance of Zero Punctuation (and the man is brilliant, make no mistake) cannot see the same quality in Scott's work.

They are not the same quality. Most of the Zero Punctuation episodes are side-splitting hilarious. Yahtzee has received thousands of comments singing his praises. VGT has gotten mostly negative feedback, with the odd complement thrown in here and there. The only good thing Video Game Theater has is the theme song. (Seriously, that's a cool song.) Other than that, VGT has nothing going for it.

To be honest popularity doesn't always reflect quality as the wonder of modern media has tought us.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here