Jimquisition: Go Fish

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Jim,

In Phil's final responses he actually singled out Marcus AND YOU for being 'terrible stains of the internet.' I was surprised that you didn't even mention this. Any reason why? Also, I'm quite a fan of how this was such an extremely calm and rational episode. It's a sensitive situation and being able to handle this with care shows a great amount of class that most people don't think you have!

^_^ Thankee for the extra episode Jim, thank gawd for you.

Just like Hollywood celebrities and twitter, even the rich and famous explode with toxic rage from time to time when using social media. When you have hundreds or thousands of people speaking to you, X percent of those people are going to be toxic idiots, it is unavoidable. No different from working retail; 3000 customers a day, if JUST 1 in a hundred is an asshole, that's 300 assholes a day you have to deal with and serve with a smile. Fish has it easier, he doesn't have to smile and take it.

A professional learns to ignore and discard social media poison that floats in their direction. Think of it like tv or radio host getting a prank call. They don't rage back or make a scene; just cut it off, maybe apologize to their audience and swiftly move on as if it had never occurred. Professionalism.

Mr_Terrific:
You can hate Fish all you like but the bottom line is this...

Fish makes games.

He has made another game other than Fez?

I'd never heard of this guy before now. After doing some research I have to say on one hand its sad to see the guy throw his entire career away like a child kicking over a checkers board and storming out of the room. But, on the other hand he's been guilty of some pretty bad behavior of his own so I personally feel he's just reaping what he sews.

TheOrb:
I now feel as if I should've sent Jim some hate mail, it seems I've been missing out on one of the many channels of community interaction.

I should make it well-written, too, as it's my first...

It's for posts like these where I wish you could upvote shit like reddit. Nevertheless, You've earned this.

image
*TAKE IT*

So, Jim playing the good cop today? I like it. Well done, Jim.

Speaking from my own experience, it does not take much to feel intimidated by groupthink on the Internet. I think there's a natural, human drive to want to feel socially verified about what you do with your life, and there was very much a time when it was a good and positive thing to help us grow as a society.

These days, though, there's a couple of big problems with that I can see off the top of my head.

First, there's this driving idea of being "cool," it haunts kids from the day they're born and it's ultimately a bunch of arbitrary bullshit that only really serves to ostracize people. I'm old enough now that I can say, "Fuck being cool, I'm my own individual now," but I think there's still a lot of adults out there who never really come to this realization and end up acting the perpetual snobby frat boy for a significant amount of their lives.

Second, there's the media. If you never watched Charlie Brooker's Newswipe, I really recommend you do. (But then, I think should be aired as mandatory classwork to High School seniors, such is my positive opinion of it.) It basically comes down to a great little documentary about how news is not really about reporting the facts anymore. It's entertainment, and consequently it has been inflated with so much fluff pieces that would include lambasting people just to jump on the popularity train and give the lowest common denominator what they want to hear. Fish got caught up in that, he became a popular guy to be bashed by the media, and I think the media needs to be held accountable for its actions. It won't be, though, because it's the media, and freedom of the press is something we hold sacred enough that they can even report school shootings despite experts saying that causes more school shootings, if they want.

That said, take it from me, don't lose your cool, Fish. Getting angry at these people does not solve anything. They love it, they're just looking for things to report that get them viewers, and providing them that kind of spectacle just plays right into their hands. You should not even think of members of the media as people when they're doing their job, because they're certainly not acting the part; they're not attacking you as a person would. They're just objects of sensationalism seeking, hounding out whatever they think will garner them a little more popularity. Don't get mad at that, it's like getting mad at a mosquito for sucking your blood.

Finally, lemme point this out to you, Fish, if you're reading this. I don't think making games was just a job for you. It was not just a job for me, either, and I never actually managed to see a game through to completion. It's a creative passion, isn't it? Nobody should be able to take that away from you. Even if you end up developing Fez II, or whatever, in your garage, while you try to hold down a "real" job of some kind, do what you enjoy doing, and don't listen to the groupthink-aligned idiots who would try to tell you otherwise.

Very well done, Jim.

That's all.

Sometimes I wish the Escapist had a like/dislike button like they do on YouTube. That way, I could express my like for a video without having to post a comment, and then fluffing it up so I don't get a warning. I like this video.

Phil Fish will decide whether or not to make Fez2 on a daily basis - just because he tweeted something or wrote or said or got a damn tattoo saying something, doesn't really mean much.

He's the type of person who will just go underground and make it anyway, release it, and the cycle will start again.

Let's face it, the deciding factor between indie developer and hipster-indie developer, is success - any succesful developer has feedback to contend with, and Fish has never handled that well. The safest option is to only really communicate with people who know what they're talking about, other developers, *mature gamers (*in mindset), he has to filter out the 99.9% of comments from people who are stupid, jealous, trolling or just plain a-holes. Nobody said he had to be in a movie and be all over twitter, Fez would have been a success anyway.

WesternGamer:

xPixelatedx:
-Snip-

They were not attacking the man, just giving their views on modern japanese games which is exactly what the guy asked. All of the designers are on record many times saying that they dislike modern games as a whole, not just japanese ones, but the question was narrowed to modern japanese games. Were these people supposed to lie about their views? I think most people stopped watching this video as soon as Fish said his thing given the amount of "what about Dark Souls?" comments popping up. His comments about Zelda are spot on.

The thing is, I do agree with what they said afterwards (especially about Zelda), and they are certainly welcomed to whatever opinion they want. That's not the issue. They didn't really elaborate much on western games either, they outright said Japanese games suck now and they should be "like ours". That's a pretty broad and sweeping generalization considering the amount of feces on both sides of the pond. But I digress, the point is that explaining your rational opinion after saying "You guyz suck man, lollollololol" while a fat guy points and laughs (all in front of a crowd) is moot. Sorry, the damage was already done.

Sure, he might have been jokingly acting like a gaping asshole at the start in a very crude attempt at humor, because that whole 'too cool for skool' shithead persona is popular in the western world. It is not however something most japanese people would understand, and you need to show some god damn curiosity when dealing with people not in on the joke. Otherwise you just look utterly despicable, and he did.

The problem I always saw with Fish is the way he criticized anything. Most of the time he didn't build arguments. He just went the child's way and said "this fucking thing suck because I say so" nothing else. Every time he opened his mouth he did like an asshole and so its hard for me to feel sympathy for him. Sure all the abuse he got sucked, but most of the time he brought it himself. From what I've seen it feels that he always thought he was above the others, that everyone sucked in comparison and only he had the right answers. Sure Fez might be a good game (can't tell haven't played it) but that doesn't mean he can talk the way he does and expect everyone to shut up an kneel before him.

This was a good episode that had something to say

xPixelatedx:

WesternGamer:

xPixelatedx:
-Snip-

They were not attacking the man, just giving their views on modern japanese games which is exactly what the guy asked. All of the designers are on record many times saying that they dislike modern games as a whole, not just japanese ones, but the question was narrowed to modern japanese games. Were these people supposed to lie about their views? I think most people stopped watching this video as soon as Fish said his thing given the amount of "what about Dark Souls?" comments popping up. His comments about Zelda are spot on.

The thing is, I do agree with what they said afterwards (especially about Zelda), and they are certainly welcomed to whatever opinion they want. That's not the issue. They didn't really elaborate much on western games either, they outright said Japanese games suck now and they should be "like ours". That's a pretty broad and sweeping generalization considering the amount of feces on both sides of the pond. But I digress, the point is that explaining your rational opinion after saying "You guyz suck man, lollollololol" while a fat guy points and laughs (all in front of a crowd) is moot. Sorry, the damage was already done.

Sure, he might have been jokingly acting like a gaping asshole at the start in a very crude attempt at humor, because that whole 'too cool for skool' shithead persona is popular in the western world. It is not however something most japanese people would understand, and you need to show some god damn curiosity when dealing with people not in on the joke. Otherwise you just look utterly despicable, and he did.

First, the question was about recent japanese games, not recent western games, so no one on the panel was required to go into how modern western games suck. If the question was about modern western games and they said the same thing, would they have to go into how modern japanese games suck as well, or is it only because the question was about japanese games? Second, Fish was the only one that stated japanese games need to catch up with the west and he stated the interfaces and technology was outdated. Blow stated things much more eloquently by explaining how he wanted things to go back to the way they were, in which Fish brought up the Zelda example. So sure, I'll give you that he is brash and his mouth probably works faster than his brain. He did apologize to the guy after it happened, though.

You might have a point here about his defenses being worn out, sort of.
I'll be honest, I only know of him from Fez, from his scuffle with McMillen and now from this story. If there was a constant stream of abuse, more than the few instances I'm aware of, you'd be right.
I wouldn't know whether there was, though.

Necromancer Jim:

And I'd say if we are going to hold him to the frankly ridiculous standards of never rising to the harassment, then why don't we seem to apply those standards to ourselves?

I can't speak for you, but I do.

He certainly doesn't deserve much defense. He's an asshole, that much is undeniable. But the sheer magnitude of the recoil against him is ridiculous. It's as if he stomped the internet's foot and they responded by calling their friends and beating him with tire irons.

That's almost as hyperbolic as Fish himself.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion here. We can probably agree that Phil Fish was unkind and responded harshly to the people attacking him. Then again, the people attacking him were certainly no saints either. My view is that neither side was justified.

Nobody's pretending they're saints as far as I can tell. Well, to clarify, nobody's pretending the people harassing Blowfish are saints. Phil seems to think he's some poor martyr whose only crime is bringing enlightenment to the world or some shit, like if Prometheus brought asshattery to the world instead of fire. Like attracts like, and dicks tend to attract dicks.

In fact, it's even dumber of Blowfish to play martyr in the context of the internet because he waded into the lion's den, punched a couple of lions, and then complained about the results. That was really stupid.

And if we're applying that idea of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", it does go both ways. We shouldn't be an asshole to Fish simply because he was an asshole. There are a lot more of us than him. And we can be much bigger assholes.

So we shouldn't bully a bully because there are more bullies and he might get bullied more than he bullied others.

Meh. I'm not going to bully him, I'm not going to pay him much mind outside of these threads. At the same time, none of those bullies are complaining that they're innocent bystanders defending themselves, far as I can tell. They're simply being dicks in response to a dick, an expected result if you have any grasp on reality whatsoever. Apparently, Blowfish does not.

Yes, "do unto others" works both ways, but people aren't quitting gaming because of Blowfish. He's quitting because of them. When he was utterly shit to people, even before he had a big hit hipster game to his name. It sucks that people are shitty to one another on the internet. And the real world. But it sucks a lot less when someone who is a complete dick to people gets treated like a dick by more people.

I don't get the mentality of being a combative dick and then whining that people are being mean to you. Complaining about abuse when you heap on abuse is stupid and hypocritical and just a touch sociopathic.

cieply:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPmkf8PHLA

And that video is delicious in the way he lacks self-awareness.

"Get with the times!"

Says the guy whose only real claim to fame plays on the nostalgia of retro gaming.

Oh wait, I should probably claim neither side is a saint. That dude who asked the question was totally asking for it. It takes two to tango, after all.

LordLundar:
I'll put this out right now, Beer's remarks are childish, in poor taste, easily forgettable and reminiscent of a 3 year old in a 30 year old's body. It was tactless, rude, insulting, abrasive, I could go on and on. To summarize, it was something that could have certainly been handled better.

But he's not wrong.

This is where the differences between Jim's previous issues and what Mr. Fish has been going through come to light. The backlash toward Jim's reviews (which was the primary source of the vitriol he talks about) are poorly worded disputes about his opinion. Rarely if ever has Jim personally attacked the people who makes the game he reviews. He's blunt and honest about his opinions about the games themselves, but only in his editorials has he ever made disparaging remarks toward people, and those are not without cause.

Phil Fish on the other hand I see as no different than a hollywood celebrity. He feels the world revolves around him, and he loves to be in the limelight and all eyes on him. But only on his terms. Say something that is not showering him with praise or ask him something that isn't promoting his new project, no matter how benign it is, and expect to be lashed out at and treated like scum and garbage because how dare you say something not worshiping him. Fish does have a thick skin for how long he's put up with it, but to be honest he does not take criticism well, regardless of how it's delivered. Yes the internet is a spiteful, hateful place. But putting someone who's saying that the game you made is not perfect in the same pool as the people calling for rape and murder does not help your image. Yes, the net is hostile to Fish, but to be honest he's no innocent victim in this.

One last thing. A number of people are saying how it's a travesty etc that Fish is leaving and he is sorely needed. I disagree. Fish's ideas are sorely needed. Not the man himself. If he kept behind the scenes and worked on the games themselves, a number of issues could have been resolved. But facing the world means you accept both the good and the bad. That is something Fish needs to learn.

Yeah. I don't mean to sound like a harsh bastard, but assholes deserve whatever bad mouthing they get. Yeah death threats/insults/fags trying to fuck you, it sucks but I don't pay any mind. I prove my worth through my strength. That is worth more than any words.

If Phil Fish is strong than he will come back and perhaps be better man for it. If he doesn't than he's weak. If he comes back but still has the exact same attitude then hes building a bigger glass house, and things will be a whole lot worse than it was before.

MonkeyPunch:
First off Jim. Stay with us for a long time please. You are a huge source of entertainment for me.

But I have to disagree on a point. The reason people tell other people like Fish to have a thicker skin is precisely because they talk a lot of shit themselves, for the most part. This is totally true of Fish.
Do onto others... If you put yourself out there with ridiculous comments and attack people and things, you have to expect a certain amount of flak back.
You only need a thick skin if you're a bit of a prick. You rarely see Super Meat Boy's developers in such altercations and they rarely have abuse hurled at them in the same way Fish had. No way near as much as Fish. Heck I don't even know their names off the top of my head.
It's simple maths. If you have strong opinions and you vocalise them, expect people to do the same right back at you.

Everyone who creates something for public consumption will get criticism. Fish on the other hand created a lot of hatred for himself by his own merits.

I don't want Fish out of the industry or anything remotely like that. I don't wish him harm etc. I'm pretty blasť on that subject. He made games and kicked up a fuss now and again and had tantrums. If he makes another game then good. If not, he doesn't.

Good show even though I don't really agree entirely with your vibe on this particular issue :)

Thats what came to my mind as well. Thickskin is only necessary if you are a arrogant bastard, where not only can you take any amount of bullshit, but you take enjoyment out of getting people mad and are more than willing to get violent if it comes to that. There are some people however, whom are primadona's, hollywood pricks that love being the center of attention and getting their ass kissed regardless of how much of a piece of shit they are to everyone but their dog. This is Phil Fish. He got his glasshouse broken and now he can gets to cry, boo fucking hoo. Death threats is nothing compared to getting beaten up or starving on the streets, having your family killed by drug dealers. Words are not real.
He does not get sympathy for that.

Lightknight:

Mr_Terrific:
You can hate Fish all you like but the bottom line is this...

Fish makes games.

He has made another game other than Fez?

He was in the process of making Fez 2 so I believe that qualifies as games. Not even sure if you're serious...

Legion:
I really liked this episode. While I can see past the persona in the normal videos in order to "get the message" I find it really engaging when you speak normally without the ranting or script. You should do talks at conventions and stuff.

In regards to the content of the video, I think the problem lies with that when you are typing words at a screen rather than speaking to somebody face to face it is difficult to see them as a person with emotions. While I strive to be fairly polite online, I realise that I can come across as incredibly snarky at times, considerably more so than I ever would in reality, and I occasionally have to remind myself that it really isn't fair to the person on the receiving end.

Some people are simply incapable of the introspection required to notice it, or are surrounded by like minded individuals to the point where that kind of behaviour seems normal. So when they get it pointed out to them they get defensive, because they cannot see what they are doing wrong.

I think a lot of this is down to the internet still being in it's "infancy". People haven't really evolved a proper etiquette for speaking to people online like we do in reality. As such people are much more likely to be a lot ruder than they would be to be people face to face.

Although I have never received the kind of hate people such as yourself and Fish have, to a smaller extent I sometimes get the same kind of feeling when I log onto here and see I have been quoted. Especially if it has been in a heated debate or a controversial topic. I normally ask myself "So who is going to take issue with my opinion now?" and feel reluctant to read what they have said.

So I can only imagine what it must be like for people who get actual harassment.

To be entirely fair, Fish gave no such heed to any form of etiquette in the way he addressed that Japanese freelance game programmer. I'm not sure if you've seen the way he spoke to that guy - and I don't care for or about his opinion itself - but it's not a stretch to believe that he might deserve a little back. Maybe not as much as he got, but he certainly deserved some form of comeuppance.

What I'm saying is, I can see where Jim is coming from and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think Fish needs a "thicker skin" or anything like that. I just think he got what he dished out thrown right back at him tenfold and that maybe he did actually deserve a little of it. He acted like a total douche in front of a global audience, he should have expected that maybe more than just one or two would react to his - to be quite frank - racist and ignorant remarks. And everything I said goes for John Blow as well for that matter. They're both disrespectful jerks.

Edit: In case you haven't seen his behaviour:

Necromancer Jim:

Zachary Amaranth:
-Snips-

I can't say he deserves better, but then I feel it is far beyond me to judge such a thing.

And I'd say if we are going to hold him to the frankly ridiculous standards of never rising to the harassment, then why don't we seem to apply those standards to ourselves?

Thats because we don't have the power of fame, the disadvantage of fame is the responsibility to uphold a good image.

The advantage of being little people like us, is we get to act with reckless abandon.

Necromancer Jim:

Even if he acted like an asshole quite often, I certainly would sympathize with him more than the mobs of anonymous assholes insulting and threatening him. He may have brought it upon himself, but it's still not nice to see anyone suffer such harassment and it's hard to see the people insulting and/or judging him as any better themselves.

Sympathize with him more? Why would want to sympathize with him in the first place. An asshole who gets hate, is still an asshole. It doesn't suddenly make him sympathetic unless something life threatening happened.

VanQ:

To be entirely fair, Fish gave no such heed to any form of etiquette in the way he addressed that Japanese journalist. I'm not sure if you've seen the way he spoke to that guy - and I don't care for or about his opinion itself - but it's not a stretch to believe that he might deserve a little back. Maybe not as much as he got, but he certainly deserved some form of comeuppance.

What I'm saying is, I can see where Jim is coming from and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think Fish needs a "thicker skin" or anything like that. I just think he got what he dished out thrown right back at him tenfold and that maybe he did actually deserve a little of it. He acted like a total douche in front of a global audience, he should have expected that maybe more than just one or two would react to his - to be quite frank - racist and ignorant remarks.

To be honest, I haven't really been following it that closely, but from what I have seen Fish appears to be one of those people who "Can dish it out, but can't take it" so if people behave badly back towards him then he shouldn't be too surprised. It's one thing to complain about being mistreated when you have done nothing wrong, but quite another to complain about it when you are willing to do it to other people.

The people of the internet are not particularly good at showing restraint though, and quite often it can get worked up to the extent where people go way too far. In this case from what I have seen, people have gone overboard which is wrong, but when it comes down to it I think people in general just need to take a step back and realise how they may come across. As with Fish, as you said he should have expected at least some kind of negative reaction to the things he has said.

The issue I have with Fish is that he was pretty loud and purposefully controversial ("All Japanese games suck"). That makes people hate you.

2 things

1, I wanna I completely understand your empathy for him. I FUCKING HATED the jimquisition when you started. I forget what but I threw around some nasty insults though I at least attempt to be eloquent in my hatespeak. I thought you were way to arrogant and full of yourself. That said you have changed and spend way more time now looking at the bigger picture of gaming. You also clarified numerous times that the arrogance bit you do is just for laughs. You've also reseated yourself as a champion of flawed creative works rather than Gears of bore 85. I want to read what you say more and scream at you less.

2, I agree characters like him do make things more interesting and I'm sure he's worked hard but his less than "eloquent" comments earned him the backlash he received. I read a blog from another journalist recently that pointed out that at anytime he wants to, like you, he could reinvent himself, maybe not even apologize and the industry would welcome him back into the fold in a heartbeat.

It wasn't a one time incident he "fed the trolls" and then rather than throw up a whiteflag and declare "whatever" he dropped a nuclear bomh on his own career.

I just cant feel sorry for him.

Damnit, stop saying "gamer community" when it is an extreme minority that are being total asshats online. It is these internet generation idiots that seem to forget the trash talking during the game is only funny, and therefore acceptable, in game.

My problem with Fish isn't that he needed thicker skin simply because he released a game. It's that he could dish it out and can't take it. I have a hard time finding any pity for him whining about how he can't deal with the hate anymore when almost everything that came out of his mouth and/or keyboard was hate. I can't bring myself to care that people threatened to kill him when he first told Beer to kill himself. I'm not too bothered when people bash his game after hearing how he bashed pretty much every Japanese game developer.

Fish doesn't need thicker skin just because he got "famous". He needs thicker skin because he decided that what he was going to do with his fame was become a massive internet bully, and if you're going to be the kind of person who decides to do that, you ought to have skin thick enough

Not that I support or defend all the people who bullied him back. It would be nice if everyone would just stop being internet bullies or at the very least stop with the death threats and the "go kill yourself"s because it's just uncalled for no matter the circumstances of the fight. It's just that Fish is no better than the people who bullied him. They're all pretty scummy people from where I'm viewing this thing, but Fish is just bully got bullied and couldn't stand the taste of his own medicine anymore. I have no pity for him and I don't care if he comes back.

But if he does come back, I would hope that he would take into account how much he didn't enjoy being bullied and stop being a bully himself should he return to game development and the public eye.

Mr_Terrific:

Lightknight:

Mr_Terrific:
You can hate Fish all you like but the bottom line is this...

Fish makes games.

He has made another game other than Fez?

He was in the process of making Fez 2 so I believe that qualifies as games. Not even sure if you're serious...

Fez 2 wasn't finished yet and as far as we can see right now never will be finished, so Fish made a game. Not games. A game.

Not sure why it matters but if you want to get into semantics, he made one single game, not multiple games.

evilcorgi:

rhizhim:
this is one of the rare occassions where i can agree with jim.

mobbing, even against the most evil and/or douchiest kind of people isn't justified.

DVS BSTrD:
This is why I DON'T go on twitter.

that applies to all of the internet.

dicks will be dicks.

maybe we should create a decency or shame module for internet users....

I have two issues with this proposed policy. One basically goes along the lines of "muh free speech". I don't think anyone should be censored or shamed for having the wrong opinion, or saying it in the wrong way. The second is the recent uprising of trolls. First of all, let me get this rant about the word "troll" in. No, troll does NOT mean "somebody I don't like". No, it does NOT mean "somebody who doesn't like me". No, it does NOT mean "A rude person" or "A racist person" or "A bigoted person. A troll is someone who intentionally acts stupid, hateful, or in some other unpopular manor to provoke a funny reaction. Now, on with my post. I can't tell you how often I see people on YouTube and Reddit naively respond seriously to obvious trolls. Someone will go to any random gaming video or thread, and say something along the lines of "lolol so gey le call of dute modern warfare is better fags", obvious stuff that wouldn't last an hour on any respectable forum, but it still gets bombarded with people trying to debate him, or insult him, or act fanboyish, which is exactly what they want! By adopting this "decency or shame" policy, we'd be opening the door for opportunistic trolls to abuse it by intentionally acting indecent around people who act in an immature or funnily intelligent way. The kid (and the more-than-likely like-minded people he associates with) to try to shame him according to policy, so they'll trip all over their own feet, giving the troll the amusement he originally sought. All in all, not a good idea at all if you ask me.

the alternative would be to lose their anonymity on the internet...

VanQ:

Legion:
I really liked this episode. While I can see past the persona in the normal videos in order to "get the message" I find it really engaging when you speak normally without the ranting or script. You should do talks at conventions and stuff.

In regards to the content of the video, I think the problem lies with that when you are typing words at a screen rather than speaking to somebody face to face it is difficult to see them as a person with emotions. While I strive to be fairly polite online, I realise that I can come across as incredibly snarky at times, considerably more so than I ever would in reality, and I occasionally have to remind myself that it really isn't fair to the person on the receiving end.

Some people are simply incapable of the introspection required to notice it, or are surrounded by like minded individuals to the point where that kind of behaviour seems normal. So when they get it pointed out to them they get defensive, because they cannot see what they are doing wrong.

I think a lot of this is down to the internet still being in it's "infancy". People haven't really evolved a proper etiquette for speaking to people online like we do in reality. As such people are much more likely to be a lot ruder than they would be to be people face to face.

Although I have never received the kind of hate people such as yourself and Fish have, to a smaller extent I sometimes get the same kind of feeling when I log onto here and see I have been quoted. Especially if it has been in a heated debate or a controversial topic. I normally ask myself "So who is going to take issue with my opinion now?" and feel reluctant to read what they have said.

So I can only imagine what it must be like for people who get actual harassment.

To be entirely fair, Fish gave no such heed to any form of etiquette in the way he addressed that Japanese freelance game programmer. I'm not sure if you've seen the way he spoke to that guy - and I don't care for or about his opinion itself - but it's not a stretch to believe that he might deserve a little back. Maybe not as much as he got, but he certainly deserved some form of comeuppance.

What I'm saying is, I can see where Jim is coming from and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think Fish needs a "thicker skin" or anything like that. I just think he got what he dished out thrown right back at him tenfold and that maybe he did actually deserve a little of it. He acted like a total douche in front of a global audience, he should have expected that maybe more than just one or two would react to his - to be quite frank - racist and ignorant remarks. And everything I said goes for John Blow as well for that matter. They're both disrespectful jerks.

Edit: In case you haven't seen his behaviour:

Holy crap, quit the melodramatic japanophile garbage, nothing he said was racist. Both Blow and Fish have been on record as to there disgust for most of modern gaming, not just japanese games. The question was about modern japanese games, so they answered the question. They never needed to talk about western games, which Blow did include. Sure Fish could have opened up his response better, but his point was valid about Zelda.

Mr_Terrific:

Lightknight:

Mr_Terrific:
You can hate Fish all you like but the bottom line is this...

Fish makes games.

He has made another game other than Fez?

He was in the process of making Fez 2 so I believe that qualifies as games. Not even sure if you're serious...

Fez took five years to make. Fez 2 was announced last month for the first time. I'd hardly say he makes games. I was asking the question both in jest but also in case there was a game I was unaware of. Since there's not, I'd say he is a person who has made a game and not a person who makes games. Not yet. As is, a one-hit-wonder, taking his money and running.

I'm not saying Fez wasn't a good game. It was/is. I'm not saying he's not capable of producing another. Just correcting a statement for clarification.

So? If he didn't want the abuse he should have had a better filter on his pie hole. I don't and won't pretend to know all the shit he got, but seems like most of it, that I heard about anyway, was in response to him running his mouth, when he hadn't earned the right.

Phil Fish is not Hideo Kojima, Shigro Miyamoto or even a Cliff Blizitsky or Peter ... >.> not even gonna try, the guy that made Fable. He's just some guy who made one game and started running his mouth like he was 'teh b3st th1ng evar!!!' with out having actually proved it, and I have a problem with that.

So do I care his 'feeling got hurt and his gonna take his toys and go home'? lol, no, 'nothing of value lost' I say.

WesternGamer:
Both Blow and Fish have been on record as to there disgust for most of modern gaming, not just japanese games.

And yet, they managed to justify why it was specifically Japanese games that were an issue right in that clip. Not just "since you asked about Japanese games," but "this is why it's different."

The thing is, he was an abrasive person to begin with, often insulted other developers, and only did one thing yet acted like we should care who he is. Thereby, he IS "a f*ng hipster," at least as far as onlookers are concerned. Should people stop being an ass to him? Yes. Does one usually call down criticism and anger by insulting others and acting like the top dog? Yes.

zvate:
This was a good episode that had something to say

This was a good comment that had something to say. And will not be flagged for low content.

WesternGamer:

VanQ:

Legion:
I really liked this episode. While I can see past the persona in the normal videos in order to "get the message" I find it really engaging when you speak normally without the ranting or script. You should do talks at conventions and stuff.

In regards to the content of the video, I think the problem lies with that when you are typing words at a screen rather than speaking to somebody face to face it is difficult to see them as a person with emotions. While I strive to be fairly polite online, I realise that I can come across as incredibly snarky at times, considerably more so than I ever would in reality, and I occasionally have to remind myself that it really isn't fair to the person on the receiving end.

Some people are simply incapable of the introspection required to notice it, or are surrounded by like minded individuals to the point where that kind of behaviour seems normal. So when they get it pointed out to them they get defensive, because they cannot see what they are doing wrong.

I think a lot of this is down to the internet still being in it's "infancy". People haven't really evolved a proper etiquette for speaking to people online like we do in reality. As such people are much more likely to be a lot ruder than they would be to be people face to face.

Although I have never received the kind of hate people such as yourself and Fish have, to a smaller extent I sometimes get the same kind of feeling when I log onto here and see I have been quoted. Especially if it has been in a heated debate or a controversial topic. I normally ask myself "So who is going to take issue with my opinion now?" and feel reluctant to read what they have said.

So I can only imagine what it must be like for people who get actual harassment.

To be entirely fair, Fish gave no such heed to any form of etiquette in the way he addressed that Japanese freelance game programmer. I'm not sure if you've seen the way he spoke to that guy - and I don't care for or about his opinion itself - but it's not a stretch to believe that he might deserve a little back. Maybe not as much as he got, but he certainly deserved some form of comeuppance.

What I'm saying is, I can see where Jim is coming from and I can see where you're coming from. I don't think Fish needs a "thicker skin" or anything like that. I just think he got what he dished out thrown right back at him tenfold and that maybe he did actually deserve a little of it. He acted like a total douche in front of a global audience, he should have expected that maybe more than just one or two would react to his - to be quite frank - racist and ignorant remarks. And everything I said goes for John Blow as well for that matter. They're both disrespectful jerks.

Edit: In case you haven't seen his behaviour:

Holy crap, quit the melodramatic japanophile garbage, nothing he said was racist. Both Blow and Fish have been on record as to there disgust for most of modern gaming, not just japanese games. The question was about modern japanese games, so they answered the question. They never needed to talk about western games, which Blow did include. Sure Fish could have opened up his response better, but his point was valid about Zelda.

I never bothered actually watching this but it's possibly one of the funniest comebacks I've ever seen. I didn't actually care about his opinions at all before this but now I'm sold. Jim is 100% right. We need more people Like Phil Fish in this industry.

Lightknight:

Mr_Terrific:

Lightknight:
He has made another game other than Fez?

He was in the process of making Fez 2 so I believe that qualifies as games. Not even sure if you're serious...

Fez took five years to make. Fez 2 was announced last month for the first time. I'd hardly say he makes games. I was asking the question both in jest but also in case there was a game I was unaware of. Since there's not, I'd say he is a person who has made a game and not a person who makes games. Not yet. As is, a one-hit-wonder, taking his money and running.

I'm not saying Fez wasn't a good game. It was/is. I'm not saying he's not capable of producing another. Just correcting a statement for clarification.

So you're saying that he announced a game before any planning or allocation of resources? Before any ideas were put to paper? He just woke up one day and decided to announce a game?

Sure...that's exactly how game development works...

What happened was, you tried to be funny and succeeded in making yourself laugh, and then tried to back up your joke with actual comedy. Well done.

Jennacide:
Fish doesn't necessarily need thicker skin, or at least wouldn't, if he's stop running his mouth off and actively trying to piss everyone off. If he wasn't notorious for comments like Japanese game devs suck, or my personal favorite "suck my dick, choke on it," this wouldn't have ever been a problem. Fish brought the abuse on himself, he has nobody to blame.

You know, someone being a jackass doesn't justify other people being a jackass to them.
Be the better man.

Jennacide:
Fish doesn't necessarily need thicker skin, or at least wouldn't, if he's stop running his mouth off and actively trying to piss everyone off. If he wasn't notorious for comments like Japanese game devs suck, or my personal favorite "suck my dick, choke on it," this wouldn't have ever been a problem. Fish brought the abuse on himself, he has nobody to blame. And honestly, what Marcus said wasn't even that harsh, especially given some of the shit that comes out of his mouth. All he said was what most of us are thinking: If you didn't have a comment on the situation (Xbox One self publishing change), then just say "No comment right now," and leave it at that. Don't get indignant over it.

Also should point out, nobody forced Fish to respond to the abuse he got, but he did, constantly. I've never liked Fish personally, because he's only ever made Fez, and believes it was a revolution for indie games, when it's anything but.

It's wonderful to see people unironically endorsing Sharia law on an Internet forum in the year 2013.

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