Jim & Yahtzee's Rhymedown Spectacular: Whine Out Of Ten Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT | |
Absolutly loved both. :D | |
The New Vegas score issue is a problem with Bethesda. If they will only give bonuses based on Metacritic, then there is something wrong with Bethesda in this situation. Looking at destructoid review policies http://www.destructoid.com/the-official-destructoid-review-guide-2011-203909.phtml, and gamespots http://www.gamespot.com/misc/reviewguidelines.html, 7 is still good. We are just misinterpreting the scores thinking that 7 is bad. I agree Metacritic is bad, but at the same time it is our fault for putting so much value on Metacritic (I don't care about 85% of the reviewers, so why should this number matter!) Some of my favorite games, and I am sure some of your favorite games did not get 9/10 from every outlet. I loved Deadly Premonition, and IGN gave that game a 2. I do think 10 has lost meaning, but I don't think anything is deserving of a perfect score. Maybe we are just spoiled with great games right now and we have to decide what to spend our time on! | |
Oh god. This was the single best Rhymedown yet. Two brilliant performances, excellent topic choices. Keep it up you two! | |
The jarring contrast of Yahtzee's was clever and funny, but the bluntness of Jim's really spoke to me. Every word was steeped in his frustration and I felt it. I too work with the public (though in a completely different context) and I know what it's like to be faced with a wall of unpleasable, mercurial idiots who don't even know enough to form their own opinion on something and instead parrot someone else's words like drunks singing doggerel. I empathize completely. If you need an Internet hug, I'm here. (If you need a beer I'm a thousand miles away, so go to the fridge and get it yerself.) | |
Yahtzee, you made me laugh. You seem a little angry, Jim. Not that I blame you. | |
Jim, change it to a 6 just to piss everyone off. | |
Dammit Jim, I was eating chocolate pudding when that last line hit and caused a redecoration of my walls. Both poems are excellent as usual, I really enjoyed the contrast Yahtzee used to demonstrate his point and Jims...ah that last line, absolute killer. Keep it up guys, no matter what anyone says we do value your hard work and it's great that you give us all these wonderful things =) | |
I don't think you understand me here, because I am not really disagreeing with you. I completely agree. There are tons of games getting high scores that I don't really like. Does the metacritic rating matter? Not at all. Is it a system that we have to live with? Yes, yes it is. It's not supposed to be used like that, but sadly it is. It doesn't matter if GameSpot or Destructoid consider 7/10 good, but flawed when the system they have to work with, Metacritic, thinks otherwise. They give the game 7/10 the game will show up as yellow as in below average. It's bullshit, it shouldn't be like this, but can you really deny that it is like this? When I visit the store page on Steam I get to see the score from Metacritic. Not from Destructoid, not from GameSpot, Not The Escapist, not IGN. Metacritic. The score that a game gets on Metacritic matters. Not because the score actually gives us any kind of information, but because it shows us the general opinion and because we translate it by Metacritics standards of good and bad. Deny this if you will, it doesn't change much. | |
Holy ****, the GTA V review on Gamespot now has over 19000 comments, White Guy Defence Force go home. The number dropped by around 200 at some point, either the comment system is bugging out under the pressure or the mods have been on a killing spree. | |
1: Your suggested system is more than less our current one. And it does not combat score inflation, nor set artistic value more in focus. 2: Story, writing, characters, plot, narrative, ....and whatever are already been objectified. There already a guide to do all this right (I know exeptions exist to every rule). | |
i really loved Yatzee's bit. it was very dark. i forgot he was talking about GTA and not a real robbery for most of it. | |
Jim, you won. Thank God for you. | |
1. Yes. While it combats neither, it makes scores utterly meaningless to the general public looking for good games. It only means Obsidian titles will be rated absurdly low, too. It makes the score nearly meaningless, thus making people read reviews again and companies be less considerate of simple scoring. At least I hope so. 2. While there are plenty of examples and guides on how to get this stuff right, its effect on the player is not quantifiable. And a description of exactly this is what people that read reviews want to know. | |
I am not sure how much pressure all reviewers have for inflating scores. I don't think any good reviewer will admit that they inflate their scores to meet the public's view. I think we just have differing views on what the problem is. We both agree that Metacritic is not a good system, but I think it is also consumers expecting that every game they are hyped about should get a 9/10 and then get angry when it does not get that. Or worse, they refuse to buy a game they want because it only gets a 7.5 from some reviews even though if they read the text they would find out that the game is everything that they wanted. Maybe there have been more high scores recently, or maybe we just see the high scores since the usual high profile games such as CoD, Mario, Assassins Creed are each time pretty good games (maybe not to my taste but still good to most people/reviewers opinion). I don't know if there is statistics for game review scores over time or if that would even tell us anything useful, maybe games are just getting better and more games do deserve a 9. | |
Fuck yeah, Jim, fuck yeah. Yahtzee offers us a smile and a laugh while you offer us sermons of brilliance. Truly you are our shepherd and we are your flock. Thank god for you. | |
Has Yahtzee Crowshaw always been this...sexy? | |
'wow Jim was pissed' Is what I'd say if I didn't under stand why. But I do, the idiots the whine about 'non conformist' scoring need to stop breathing if they don't under stand 1) one point means nothing, or 2)people have different tastes. I'd say they need to grow up, but we all know that's never gonna happen. and Yahtzee, that was gold :3 | |
Absolutely smashing, Yathzee, a true keeper! | |
Jim, I'm not sure if you're aware. You just let a Troll Gang rile you up. GTA V was targeted because of the large number of people interested in it. I'm not talking about people who just happen to have a different option, and are belligerent. I'm not guessing at this ether. One of the Trolls is a malicious stalker troll. There are countermeasures to reduce these kinds of people, but that would be a very long and involved post. Unfortunately gamers are a target rich environment for them. | |
No it's GTA4 for sure, and/or GTA5 (haven't played it yet). Saints Row 2 had goofy cutscenes for the most part, only some of the Brotherhood and Ronin missions gave the player any kind of empathy. | |
Yahtzee had me grinning like a maniac during his fast paced sections, and Jim summed up the big problems with the reveiw reactions in a wonderfully direct manner. | |
There are a number of things I find odd about the concept of "ludonarrative dissonance." Leaving aside the fact that most of those games make the dissonant behaviors completely optional (so if you think the character is inconsistent, it's all too often because you're choosing to play them that way), there's also the fact that most of the critics complaining about "ludonarrative dissonance" are the artsy types interested in "The Human Condition" and verisimilitude... and yet the dissonance could easily be interpreted as the inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and hidden traits that real people have. A lot of people DO act different in conversations (cutscenes) then they act when it comes time to actually do stuff (gameplay), and conveniently overlook past events and actions when they discuss their moral codes and their worldview. It's how people are, and it's one of the most interesting things you can explore in character drama. | |
Probably the best Rhymedown on the series so far... all the kudos for both of you. | |
Question to Yahtzee: | |
Yahtzee's poem managed to perfectly capture the feel of gameplay-narrative disconnect in "serious" games. 10/10 - Pretty good. | |
No, I'd want to see it too. :) OT, thanks Jim & Yahtzee for brightening my Wednesday! | |
A had to laugh at that last line in Jim's poem. I guess that's one of the arguments that the fanboys are pulling out, eh? "This part of the game isn't bad, because it's satire"? In any case, I agree that the scoring system really has lost all sense of meaning, where 9s and 10s are constantly handed out so you get the feeling that anything less than a 8.5 isn't even worth bothering with. I mean, you're allowed to not like someone's else's opinion on your favorite game, but calm the fuck down, people. We're allowed to not think your favorite game is as perfect as you think it is (also remembering that many of the whiners haven't even played the damn thing to form their own perfect opinion of it anyway). Thank god for you, Jim. Oh and Ben, that was amazing too. Game devs need to make sure that the gameplay and storytelling aren't at odds with each other to be taken seriously. That said, there ARE benefits in just losing your rag in a sandbox game without having to deal with the consequences... | |
"Fuck you for that, and fuck you for this" sounds like the start of my new favorite 'I'm breaking up with you' poem. I love how many games the LND bit could work with. Pretty much most sandboxes, really. | |
I think the biggest issue you'd run into if the scores were abolished would be that a lot of people wouldn't bother looking up reviews at all. How many of the people in uproar over a 9/10 do you think actually read the review and didn't just skip to the end for a numeric representation of a personal opinion about a complex experience? EDIT: I should say "usually" complex experience because while a lot of games give you both pros and cons to weigh into your opinion there are certainly games that don't deserve/need much time to make up your mind. OT: So at least Saints Row has always been a lot more coherant in its narrative and gameplay compared to recent GTA titles, as strange as that can be to believe. | |
Bothe excellent poems, Yahtzee and Jim! Jim came firing out of the gate at those unpleaseable fanbois who can't take criticism of any form, and Yahtzee dazzled us all with his take ludonaruto disasterporn, or whatever it's called. Can the Escapist have a theme week around that? Have Bob give his $0.02 on it in The Big Picture, they could rip on it in Critical Miss, get the LRR crew to write a sketch ripping on it, that sort of thing.
I forgot which game it was, but he gave it a 4, "as in 'FOURK YOU!'"
I thought he was more of a "puckish rogue", but tomato/to-mah-to. | |
It's a shame really people don't know how to effectively express themselves on the internet. | |
Might have been the mailbag zp after the Smash Bros critique. Oh, he also gave Wolfenstein(remake) 2 stars (Love that review. Impressive insight within the limits of limerick structure) | |
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA! Oh, oh dear gods that was good. Yahtzee, Jim, please tell me you're going to release an album of this deliciously lunatic verse. This must be allowed to infect the parts of the planet that don't have the Internet. | |
I'm calling it: best Rhymedown Spectacular yet, and that's saying something. Yahtzee's was hilarious, mostly because it's completely true. Jim: 9/10 | |
Oh I remember that, but then again it wasn't 4 out of something. In the Wolfenstein review it got 2/5 stars as the final joke/limerick. | |
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