Rape Games Banned in Japan

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Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:
I think there's a fine difference between rape games and games with killing. We don't play violent games just to kill people. We play them because the game play is fun.

With a rape game, you are not playing it because the game play is fun. You are playing it to rape somebody.

People have rape fantasies. However logical thinking people, instead of commiting a horrible crime, either look at played out rape porn, play rape porn video games, or do rape scenarios with aconsenting partner or partners.

Also, for those who like it...it is fun. There is no real difference aside from what squirts out.

Prove to me that rape games prevent rape. Show me a study that proves it.

This does not prevent rape. It only makes rape socially acceptable.

Prove to me that rape games makes it happen more (not counting virtually)
Also let me get my Lancer and cut you in half with the chainsaw. Oh, its fine, Gears of War isnt banned so its ok. (Unless you are sayign anything not nice should be banned, your point is very very flawed)

You put forth the idea that these games prevent rape. I told you to provide proof. You could not, hence your entire argument is invalid.

Also there is a big difference between sex and murder. Murder will never be acceptable in a functioning society. A society can not progress if there is mass murder.

Sex, on the other hand, can be a major part of society without it collapsing. We could have a society in which people look at one another as nothing more than sexual objects. It would still function, but such a society would be a disgrace.

Fine, ignore the less rape part. My ENTIRE argument is not invalid as my ENTIRE argument was not that it prevents rape.

What other argument do you have?

It is a game that shows a fantasy, not real women gettting raped. Some people are into it but dont actually want to rape someone unwillingly (willingly would be sexual role play) and if this should be banned then so should violent games and THOSE should not be banned as it is JUST A GAME. They want to ban this game because it is unfair to women which is just stupid and does not promote equality and just promotes censorship which is wrong to do.Don't like it, don't play it or look at it. If you don't like people getting raped then join the police or keep an eye and ear out in the REAL WORLD for them instead of arguing with me.

For the record, I don't want to ban these games. Part of it has to do with the ideas of freedom and also because I know it won't do any good.

Prove it.

ShredHead:

EDIT: Also I think it'll be really funny if Japans rape rate like skyrockets now.

I doubt the women of japan would laugh with you.

Seriously, it took this long to ban games like this?

Simalacrum:

I don't think it'll matter to us Westeners (well, half-westerner in my case) since its already banned over here anyways :P

Well if it's banned in Japan, they'll stop making new stuff. And if people start trying to move it all around under the radar, it'll be even harder to get hold of for us Westerners than it already is!

I'm passionate about my porn XD

Hahah, I bet Japan have plenty of games they need to ban then. Probably lots of pissed of H-gamers over there now :D.

I am not promoting rape or anything, but I see two problems with this.

A. If virtual killing is considered OK by us because it is not real, why is rape differnet.?
B. How many potential rapists are not longer going to get "their fix" and will do so in reality?

Plus I am against regulating anything that does not harm someone else. Unless someone is actually being harmed in the production of the material, no one is hurt.

vivaldiscool:
Freedom -1

All of you cheering, you can't be all libertarian only when it suites you. I don't care if you find it distasteful. It's not hurting anyone, and it's not causing anyone to be hurt. This is frankly outrageous.

And for those of you arguing it's because rape is considered worse than murder. No. It's not. It's simply not. How could you even say that?

The fact that games like this are banned, while games like postal get the green flag goes beyond a simple sigh and a facepalm, this is disgusting. What's even more disgusting, is that so many of my gamer colleagues are against it as well.

This. As distasteful as the material is, and how little I would think of anyone I found playing it, you can't deny that censoring these rape games whilst not even raising an eyebrow at the sort of extreme violence present in the majority of contemporary shooters. We're just used to it now - we don't notice just how violent our entertainment is these days, but we don't consider it to be damaging to our mental health. In fact, we mock those who say that it is numbing us to violence and is likely to make us more prone to commit such acts in the future.

Despite this we seem to feel that just because we don't like someone else's subject material, all the arguments that we reject out of hand when used on us should apply to them. Double standards, people - beware the hypocrisy here. If you say that shooting thousands of enemies/aliens/robots etc in no way makes you more likely to shoot up your local school, then it can be just as easily argued that simulated rape has no bearing on committing the actual act - especially if in a country where such games make up 10-20% of the market there is a remarkably low rate of rape.

Since the vast majority of people here have no first-hand experience here, all the comments are little more informed than the vast majority of the media's reportage on computer games - alarmist, uninformed and hostile. It's not surprising, with a controversial subject such as rape, but we take mass-slaughter games for granted - God of War, Gears of War, CoD (CoD 4 even features an actual murder - a summary execution of a helpless prisoner, an no-one bats an eyelid...) anyone? Remember that.

I belivie in a gaming world were any developer could realese any game without haveing to fear the BANHAMMER

It would be up to the parents if they want to buy that 18+ rape game for their son.

IT'S RATED M FOR A FUCKING REASON!

I'm not taking either side in this one. On one hand I am against activists for the obstruction of freedom and the lack of perception that a game is just a game and nothing more. on the other I don't think RAPE fits into a class of game or even count towards the creative and articulate freedom everybody deserves. perhaps if the game made a point but I don't know. Would anybody like to join me on the fence? I brought cheese and crackers.

Gamer137:
I am not promoting rape or anything, but I see two problems with this.

A. If virtual killing is considered OK by us because it is not real, why is rape differnet.?B. How many potential rapists are not longer going to get "their fix" and will do so in reality?

Plus I am against regulating anything that does not harm someone else. Unless someone is actually being harmed in the production of the material, no one is hurt.

I agree with this guy. Why is rape in games considered taboo, but violence to an ungodly level not?

Although I think these kinds of games are stupid, especially since they apparently make up so much of the market, I can't agree with banning them. Why?

Let's put it like this; no one's actually getting hurt. Now, if they could truely link this to rape crimes, I'd be all for banning it. But for now, we don't know if it actually helps detour the crime by giving potential rapists an area to quell their curiosities, or if it has no affect at all.

Secondly, it's kind of dumb. I mean, I know plenty of people (male and female) who have rape fantasies. Maybe this is just a sick, guilty pleasure for some of the players. I don't know. I'm just saying it's kind of dumb, like we're not allowed to simulate things that actually occur in our society. What's next, death can't be simulated? Murder and creepy/pedophile characters are okay? I don't know, it just seems like you get more jail time and heavier fines for drug-use than you do for actual crimes like rape (this is just from an American perspective). I guess it seems like we just have so many double-standards with law that everything seems like a stupid cluster-fuck.

And sorry for any bad spelling or grammar, or bad train of thoughts. I'm currently on pain killers and am kind of loopy.

Good morning blues:

Ziren:

Good morning blues:
Good show! There really is no place in a society for cultural material that explicitly and obviously promotes and normalizes rape.

But promotion of viligantism, murder and war crimes is okay? Don't you think that this is a double standard?

Hey now, when did I say that? Promotion of vigilantism, murder and war crimes absolutely is not okay.

Well I think viligantism is an issue to itself and cannont be compared with war crimes and murder, even though vilgiantism usually is killing criminals but not the point!

I think there is an unspoken gaming rule that needs breaking to some extent: If it has languadge its T, gore..its M, Nudity its A, sounds reasonable...but games like this don't need to be around!

The Youth Counselor:
Rape is considered to by many to be the most depraved and heinous of crimes, even more heinous than murder or treason. The act takes away the feeling and basic human right of personal safety. For a victim was violated in a way that was sacred and the rapist uses sex which is normally an act of trust and love into a weapon. These games aren't a good release. The normal human being has a violent fantasy now and again, but most games depict them in an act of defense. Violent video games tend not harbor more of the mentality and promote it. They don't distort the violence as a magical thing where the victim "likes to be killed, or was just asking for it"These games are made for an audience that will continue to harbor these urges after playing. They are simply an excercise in sadism and morally abhorrent beliefs.

One in four women worldwide undergo some sexual abuse or harrassment. In Japan where sex crimes are high, and sexism goes deep into it's very laws, something has to be done.

We also need to draw the line on what we can show in fiction and virtual depictions, so that less controversy hits the mainstream. Art should have no boundaries, and be able to address anything and everything. However this is just immature, depraved trash that addresses the issue of rape in an irresponsible gratuitous pornographic light. We as a community know that the lowest selling controversial game garners an outrage, but rape simulators are estimated to account to 15-20 of the Japanese game market. This is heat we do not need.

We talk about how rape is a hideous thing, and that we need to teach our sisters and daughters how to live. But what do we teach our sons.

and this guy HAS IT!
This is not art! This is depravity! Thus I think the correct response is an industry ban...more than reasonable, in fact I condone that idea!

If it was artistic...by everyones standards or by 65% of gamers....its art and it deserves to not be sold underground!

Good morning blues:
Good show! There really is no place in a society for cultural material that explicitly and obviously promotes and normalizes rape.

EDIT: Even better is the fact that it's being banned by industry policy and not legislation.

But murder is fine?

How about them double standards?

mind you have any of is played this game? is it possible that in context the player is an outcast a criminal, maybe the overall climax of the game is getting your knob peeled off by a very angry midget using a heated wooden spoon, probly not but, we need both sides on the topic, maybe theres no story to this game, to provide people with a stupid game with no story ( gta or saints row) and a quick wank

Caliostro:

mspencer82:
Sounds like a victory for good taste.

DerpyDerpyDerp:
Just like animated CP is legal, so should animated rape. It's a game people. Saying games like that promote rape is exactly the same as Gears/Halo/whatever your poison promotes shooting people in the face.

Of course! When you put it like that we all realize how silly we're being. In Gears of War, Halo, and every other shooter on the planet you have to shoot the other person before they shoot you. In rape games you have to rape the other person for they--

-wait a minute...

Grand Theft Auto. Postal. Etc.

Yeah, and I feel the same way about those games as I do this rape simulator crap. Killing an armed opponent and murdering an unarmed non-combatant are very different things.

It's bizarre that they even let the games be made.

Yes, it's a bit weird that murder is acceptable in games when rape isn't, but really, rape is quite unpleasant. You get shot, you're dead. Boom. Rape, on the other hand, is a very dragged out process.

Kinda like the difference between getting shot and getting stabbed.

"Hey, I disagree with this! The governments role is totally to outlaw anything objectional."

CantFaketheFunk:
Japan is such a bizarre country.

So is every other country... mine included. We're all a different kind of crazy :D

I despise censorship in all its forms, but this almost makes me want to justify it. And then I remember that this was caused by interference from outside powers. You see, I don't think that a ban on the stuff would even be that seriously enforced, unless the Japanese decided to make it of their own volition.

To be honest, I can't see them actually banning it... perhaps they should just ban the EXPORT of these games. Then they can't risk us getting offended, and they can keep their 10-20% of the market up and running.

as far as im aware, animated cp isnt legal in any country, japan has cases where they go, oh, shes a robot, or look she has cat ears she isnt human, but those cases are, its not legal but its not illegal as well, which is silly, but cp of any kind = illegal in all counties

Color me completely unsurprised that no move at all was made against these games until they got found out about by other countries.

joystickjunki3:

Moormur:

joystickjunki3:

ygetoff:

The Youth Counselor:
I'm someone who argues in favor 99.99999% of the time for the freedom of expression and that a virtual simulation and real life act are completely separate. But I gotta say, It's about damn time.

this particular genre is estimated to make up 10-20 percent of the Japanese PC game industry[/b]

:facepalms

I agree. This is going a bit beyond freedom of expression. What would the maker want to express with this game?

One could say the same thing about GTA or Manhunt.

And I very easily DO say the same thing about GTA or Manhunt.

OK, but, and keep in mind that I'm not asking this in a condescending way (honestly), but who are you to determine what people can express?

I can ask the same question of you. Who are you to determine the level of what people can express?

Yay philosophy!

Ziren:

Good morning blues:

Hey now, when did I say that? Promotion of vigilantism, murder and war crimes absolutely is not okay.

Alright, I'll admit that I simply projected the image I have of the general forum member on you. I apologize for this.

However, FPS and third-person-shooters almost always promote murder and sometimes vigilantism.
Pretty much every RTS in existence shows war crimes and often enough has the player commit them.

It's just that the same people that defend those games when they're the target of critique will probably speak out against those rape games.

But I should probably give my own opinion on the issue:
Some people have rape fantasies. To be honest, I have some of those as well, though I'm imagining myself in the passive part (and yes, I'm aware that it would a traumatising experience if I would ever be really raped. I have at least one rape victim in my family and I've seen what it has done to her).
Anyway, as you could probably guess from the previous paragraph, I'm in the BDSM-scene, frequent a couple of related forums and also met some of the people on there in real life. You'd be amazed how many of the guys (and girls) there are into rape play. That doesn't make them monsters, everyone of them knows that there's a world of difference between their fantasies/sessions and a real rape.
My point is, most people are sane enough to make that distinction and those who aren't would probably become rapists anyway.

Sorry that the English in this post is probably very bad, but I'm really tired right now...

There is nothing wrong with rape fantasies (at least not at the level of the individual), rough sex, BDSM, or any of that shit; there is something severely wrong with cultural material that promotes rape. I can understand the argument that the video game is fantasy and therefore it's not harming anyone, but I don't buy it; rape play is a situation in which two consenting adults fully understand the fact that their interaction is imitation and fantasy, while media in which you run around raping everybody creates a mental space in which rape is sexually appealing without the separation that real-life role-playing provides. BDSM and rape play promote sexual exploration and liberation of a darker piece of what makes us human; games like Rape Lay promote violence against women. I don't have any problem with media including these themes, as long as the fantasy aspect is stressed, but these games (as well as most of the pornographic material that they are most akin to) tend to downplay those aspects as much as possible.

Bulletinmybrain:

Good morning blues:
Good show! There really is no place in a society for cultural material that explicitly and obviously promotes and normalizes rape.

EDIT: Even better is the fact that it's being banned by industry policy and not legislation.

Wait, so you are supporting censoring material simply because nobody likes it? The games don't harm anybody, except possibly the gamer, but that can be said about doing most things.

While I don't support rape, I do support freedom of expression as long as you don't bring undue harm on someone.

...No, I support censoring material simply because it promotes violence against women, which I find abhorrent.

imburke:
mind you have any of is played this game? is it possible that in context the player is an outcast a criminal, maybe the overall climax of the game is getting your knob peeled off by a very angry midget using a heated wooden spoon, probly not but, we need both sides on the topic, maybe theres no story to this game, to provide people with a stupid game with no story ( gta or saints row) and a quick wank

I agree, it sounds bad because of the side its told on "GOOD NEWS! a game about RAPE has been banned because it's about RAPE and RAPE is bad... RAPE" it's oddly convincing to anybody with who has a dislike for the word rape, allow me to illuminate. replace the word rape with something else you hate and you will see what I mean.

hehehehe... "GOOD NEWS! a game about HALO has been banned because it's about HALO and HALO is bad... HALO" xD

I detest these games as much as anyone, but I don't think they should be banned.

Caliostro:

Good morning blues:
Good show! There really is no place in a society for cultural material that explicitly and obviously promotes and normalizes rape.

EDIT: Even better is the fact that it's being banned by industry policy and not legislation.

But murder is fine?

How about them double standards?

If you actually read the thread you would see that not only have I already responded to this, I have asserted that explicit and obvious promotion of murder is not acceptable in media.

Moormur:

joystickjunki3:

Moormur:

joystickjunki3:

ygetoff:

The Youth Counselor:
I'm someone who argues in favor 99.99999% of the time for the freedom of expression and that a virtual simulation and real life act are completely separate. But I gotta say, It's about damn time.

this particular genre is estimated to make up 10-20 percent of the Japanese PC game industry[/b]

:facepalms

I agree. This is going a bit beyond freedom of expression. What would the maker want to express with this game?

One could say the same thing about GTA or Manhunt.

And I very easily DO say the same thing about GTA or Manhunt.

OK, but, and keep in mind that I'm not asking this in a condescending way (honestly), but who are you to determine what people can express?

I can ask the same question of you. Who are you to determine the level of what people can express?

Yay philosophy!

Touche, but for me this is a "do unto others thing." I wouldn't want people to stifle me, so I see no reason to stifle them if they're not hurting anyone *directly.* (I put in "directly" because I'm sure someone will blame these games for real-life rape, like people blamed Marilyn Manson for violence.)

EDIT: But that should not be the only reason to prevent censorship.

Datsle:

ShredHead:

EDIT: Also I think it'll be really funny if Japans rape rate like skyrockets now.

I doubt the women of japan would laugh with you.

I think they would find the absurdity and irony of the situation at least on some level funny.

That kind of 'game' just cries out wrong to me (kudos for the ban). But it isn't aimed for an American/European market. Whilst rape is amongst the worst things around, no actual person is coming to harm... on the one hand, you've got moral objections and on the other, freedom of expression.
I would never dream of even considering playing a 'game' like this, but I wouldn't feel like I had the right to stop someone who did want to play this from doing so...
I'm unsure where I stand here.

Kiutu:
Ok, I guess -I- will be the first to be against this.
Mostly it annoys me cause it seems more like people whining and being huge babies. Now, I know Japan does not have our government and laws (some we put on em yes, but not all) but still. Its like, why is this allowed but this not when it is very similar. So is games where girls are killed gonna be banned too? What about men/boys? Now yes, obviously few if any are playing these games for anything aside from sexual release, but for all we know it is a better outlet for peole with such fantasies. This is just like violence in gaming and is not going to make people who would not already do it start raping people or stalking them.
Equality Now, based on this they seem PETA-like. (Not a good thing)
Thats my view on this.

Death and rape are wrong no matter how someone spins it. The only difference is that death is more accepted than rape. Either way someone loses something but I would much rather die and keep my dignity. Than lose it to rape.

Y did a womens rights group get involved, their fictional cgi characters who are only created for the people with a sexual deviation for this stuff, this has absolutly nothing to do with real women or discrimination, It's like sueing the creaters of a movie on a rapist for putting a scene where a character gets raped...
Oh and also the Japanese gaming economy is going in the crapper it's like taking FPS' out of the american market...

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:

Kiutu:

Internet Kraken:
I think there's a fine difference between rape games and games with killing. We don't play violent games just to kill people. We play them because the game play is fun.

With a rape game, you are not playing it because the game play is fun. You are playing it to rape somebody.

People have rape fantasies. However logical thinking people, instead of commiting a horrible crime, either look at played out rape porn, play rape porn video games, or do rape scenarios with aconsenting partner or partners.

Also, for those who like it...it is fun. There is no real difference aside from what squirts out.

Prove to me that rape games prevent rape. Show me a study that proves it.

This does not prevent rape. It only makes rape socially acceptable.

Prove to me that rape games makes it happen more (not counting virtually)
Also let me get my Lancer and cut you in half with the chainsaw. Oh, its fine, Gears of War isnt banned so its ok. (Unless you are sayign anything not nice should be banned, your point is very very flawed)

You put forth the idea that these games prevent rape. I told you to provide proof. You could not, hence your entire argument is invalid.

Also there is a big difference between sex and murder. Murder will never be acceptable in a functioning society. A society can not progress if there is mass murder.

Sex, on the other hand, can be a major part of society without it collapsing. We could have a society in which people look at one another as nothing more than sexual objects. It would still function, but such a society would be a disgrace.

Fine, ignore the less rape part. My ENTIRE argument is not invalid as my ENTIRE argument was not that it prevents rape.

What other argument do you have?

It is a game that shows a fantasy, not real women gettting raped. Some people are into it but dont actually want to rape someone unwillingly (willingly would be sexual role play) and if this should be banned then so should violent games and THOSE should not be banned as it is JUST A GAME. They want to ban this game because it is unfair to women which is just stupid and does not promote equality and just promotes censorship which is wrong to do.Don't like it, don't play it or look at it. If you don't like people getting raped then join the police or keep an eye and ear out in the REAL WORLD for them instead of arguing with me.

For the record, I don't want to ban these games. Part of it has to do with the ideas of freedom and also because I know it won't do any good.

Prove it.

Prove the bolded part? Ok...

Ziren:

Some people have rape fantasies. To be honest, I have some of those as well, though I'm imagining myself in the passive part (and yes, I'm aware that it would a traumatising experience if I would ever be really raped. I have at least one rape victim in my family and I've seen what it has done to her).
Anyway, as you could probably guess from the previous paragraph, I'm in the BDSM-scene, frequent a couple of related forums and also met some of the people on there in real life. You'd be amazed how many of the guys (and girls) there are into rape play. That doesn't make them monsters, everyone of them knows that there's a world of difference between their fantasies/sessions and a real rape.
My point is, most people are sane enough to make that distinction and those who aren't would probably become rapists anyway.

That should do it nicely.

the fact that these girls look very animated isnt coming up in anyones arguments yet, i mean yea, bad content, but isnt it just like, a heavy petting version of doa beach volleyball, and maybe the company should take a stand for feminism, make the rapist female, then see what feminists say, all male and all female versions of the game, lets have some equality here people!!! ;)

Anyone who is against the banning of violent video games because of the claim that they affect the minds of those who play them must also be against the banning of these kinds of games. Sure it might be sick, but as has been stated it could be an effective outlet (and a safe one at at) to those with these kinds of fantasies.

They're just games.

but this is fictional, you make it sound like a real life event, this is about a game in wchich theyre are no feelings, just animations, and what te player chooses to do, there is no dignity in a game like this already lol

Citrus Insanity:
I detest these games as much as anyone, but I don't think they should be banned.

But if the industry takes a stance against it what does that mean? (General Question)

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