PlayStation 4 Abandons Backwards Compatibility

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Baresark:
This is the thing that is going to hurt it most. With backwards compatibility the transition is made much easier when a new system is coming out. Now I would need to keep a hold of my PS3 and have a PS4 in order to play newer games. But the newer games are going to be entirely too rare for quite a while after release. At best we will get some slightly enhanced versions of the PS3 games, and that will be rare because the architecture is ridiculously different. They should have tried to devise a way to emulate PS3 in order to make the transition possible. But their stupid worthless CELL architecture bites them in ass yet again.

Considering the PS4 is more like a PC, multiplatform games would come out on that more likely than the PS3 once its out. Far easier and cheaper to port to.

Captcha - got my mojo , good for u captcha, did Sony give it to you?

RicoADF:

Baresark:
This is the thing that is going to hurt it most. With backwards compatibility the transition is made much easier when a new system is coming out. Now I would need to keep a hold of my PS3 and have a PS4 in order to play newer games. But the newer games are going to be entirely too rare for quite a while after release. At best we will get some slightly enhanced versions of the PS3 games, and that will be rare because the architecture is ridiculously different. They should have tried to devise a way to emulate PS3 in order to make the transition possible. But their stupid worthless CELL architecture bites them in ass yet again.

Considering the PS4 is more like a PC, multiplatform games would come out on that more likely than the PS3 once its out. Far easier and cheaper to port to.

Captcha - got my mojo , good for u captcha, did Sony give it to you?

Haha, great captcha. I used to get that shinglesinfo.com one all the time, I started thinking shingles was the worst possible thing that could happen to me.

OT: The only reason it presents a block is because when it fist comes out, it will slow down the sales significantly. Companies are far more likely to produce games for the system with the much larger install base. Sure, programming the games will be easier, but PS4 development will be on the back burner until the install base is a decent percentage as compared to PS3. If companies do develop a game for both the PS3 and PS4, it will be designing the game for a completely different console and probably require a good portion of the budget as well. The conundrum is, PS3 will have a much larger install base for the foreseeable future but be much harder to program for. I also wonder if a publisher will have to pay a license fee for both systems, which also bites into likelihood of them producing PS4 titles when the PS3 is still far more viable.

This is, of course, conjecture. I don't know for sure, no one does.

elilupe:
This is...just...goddamnit Sony. If we never get a single console that can play every game ever made (which is pretty much impossible, I'd say), backwards compatibility is the only thing keeping older games in existence. Game companies can't seriously expect people to own every console ever, just to play some older, great game.
Imagine, if you will, that you want to watch Casablanca, a cinematic classic, and the only way to do that was to but an old, black and white, CRT TV with dials.
If that was the case, that movie would disappear, no matter how great of a classic it was. That is what is going to happen in the future unless we get some damn backwards compatibility.

Just wanna use this to point out to you and others complaining, we did have to buy new copies of old films. Remember going to watch a film and you had to insert a large tape into the VHS machine, and how there was no skipping scenes, only fast forwarding the tape. Then we got DVDs and as far as I am aware we can't shove a VHS tape into a DVD player. Now there is Blu Ray and if I have heard correctly you can't use DVDs in a Blu Ray player.

This goes for music too. You can't play vinyl in a cassette player, or a cassette in a CD player.

Stop crying about the lack of backwards compatability, it's not a crime to move forward and lack the ability to play old hardware. If you REALLY want to play a PS1, PS2 or PS3 game just keep the console and play it on that. Hell, I have my PS1 and PS2 both still working because I didn't just throw away the old product once the new one became available. I enjoy plugging the old consoles in and playing the old games on them, and I have no ill thoughts towards the PS3/PS4 and Xbox not being able to play my old games. They shouldn't have to, they're new, they should have their own collection of games for me to enjoy.

dragongit:

The Xbox next may be not as backwards compatable as the PS4. The 360 clearly wasn't. It had a "selection" of games at launch. hardly a fraction of it's full library. Switching over would prove noting and wouldn't save you any more or less money.

It's not a case of whether the neXtBox (I'm sorry) is going to be more or less backwards compatible than the PS4, as I don't own a 360 and never have. I'm just saying that if I'm going to have to go into the next generation whilst keeping my old PS3, then there's no reason I should stay with Sony.

Kumagawa Misogi:
PS1 mips cpu

PS2 mips cpu (backwards compatibility with PS1 super easy)

PS3 Power cpu (backwards compatibility only possible with PS2 with PS2 cpu included result increased cost = complaints of it's too expensive so it's dropped and sales increase).

PS4 X86 cpu (same as with PS3-PS2 only possible with additional hardware and increase in cost so they don't bother as people complaining on the internet does not effect sales cost does :)

Thank you for this post. It is possible to emulate the games via software but that sort of stuff is notoriously buggy and requires a lot more CPU than running it on it's native architecture. PC enthusiasts are typically willing to tinker to get stuff like that to work but most console players would only think the marketing was misleading, and or it would frustrate them.

Now if the PS5 sticks with a standard pc architecture x86-64 etc, then backwards compatibility will be super easy.

Backwards compatibility does wonders for people that want to jump on the new console bandwagon but would otherwise wait until more than 1 game they want is released for it. I only got a 3DS because I could still play DS games on it, and because EO 4 and Prof. Layton were soon to be here.

I waited until Oblivion's Game of the Year edition came out to finally get a PS3 originally, and I was glad I could still play me PS2 and PS1 games on it too. My other consoles all still worked, it was just way more convenient to have one hooked up, and I wasn't going to spend $600 on a machine that I could only play that one PS3 game on.

Sadly the 2nd PS3 had to get to replace my yylod one had none of that customer pleasing nonsense, and now my Bravia crapped out after a couple years of sporadic use. So Sony isn't exactly on my "Quality" list of manufacturers at the moment.

I'm still slogging through all the PS4 news I opted out of yesterday though, so maybe I'll find something to interest me about this next generation as Nintendo and M$ aren't doing it.

Captcha: Knock Back. How appropriate. I'm desperately not looking forward to this. The PS2 was my first real console and I've stuck with it since, but it's looking increasingly likely that I might just skip out on the next console generation entirely... It's starting to just not seem to be worth it to me.

Captcha: Knock Back. How appropriate. I'm desperately not looking forward to this. The PS2 was my first real console and I've stuck with it since, but it's looking increasingly likely that I might just skip out on the next console generation entirely... It's starting to just not seem to be worth it to me.

I currently own 2 PS3s and 1 PS2. **shrug** I kept my Fat PS3 when it's Blueray laser died because of it's backwards compatiblity and bought a new PS3 for my actual PS3 games. And my old PS2 is in a closet somewhere in case I ever need it.

Speaking of which, I should probably back up my Fat PS3 fake PS2 saves sometime, just in case something ever happens to it.

It's not like I don't have a PS3, so a minor inconvenience in reality. If it was just going to make the system more expensive then I rather they not include it.

dragongit:

The Xbox next may be not as backwards compatable as the PS4. The 360 clearly wasn't. It had a "selection" of games at launch. hardly a fraction of it's full library. Switching over would prove noting and wouldn't save you any more or less money.

Well, I have an Xbox360 and most of the Xbox games I own, in the end, ended up being backwards compatible. The majority of the ones that were never converted were from smaller studios or were smaller releases. But I'm still playing Xbox games on my 360.

I do not currently own any generation Playstation. I have never owned a Playstation. But Quantic Dream went exclusive to PS with this current generation. This made me sad. I didn't particularly care about any playstation exclusive except Heavy Rain. Then add on the new Quantic Dream game Two Souls. And the Uncharted series and the Last of Us. So there are 6 PS3 games I'm really interested in.

But it is a bit late in the generation to buy a PS3. So I thought, well, I'll get a PS4, since I'm sure it'll be backwards compatible.

For the first time, Sony was going to get the chance to pull in a new customer and get my money.

But now? It turns out the PS4 won't be backwards compatible. So...now it is very unlikely there are going to pick me up as a new customer. Their loss, I suppose.

I certainly hope the NeXtBox will be backwards compatible...because I have a really extensive library I haven't finished...and I don't really have the space to have a gazillion consoles hooked up to my TV.

I understand WHY, it's just that it doesn't reduce the suck of it.

Ah well... Maybe one day when we all have standardized chips...

Hairless Mammoth:
The Vita has too much crap that adds to the cost that in reality is just a gimmick that will be used once or twice just to check it out. Maybe Sony is slowly starting to learn
from that.

On the contrary: The Vita's native library is so freaking TERRIBLE it needs that backwards compatibility.
Those PS1 titles done via emulation? Life support.

bug_of_war:

elilupe:
-snip-

Just wanna use this to point out to you and others complaining, we did have to buy new copies of old films. Remember going to watch a film and you had to insert a large tape into the VHS machine, and how there was no skipping scenes, only fast forwarding the tape. Then we got DVDs and as far as I am aware we can't shove a VHS tape into a DVD player. Now there is Blu Ray and if I have heard correctly you can't use DVDs in a Blu Ray player.

This goes for music too. You can't play vinyl in a cassette player, or a cassette in a CD player.

Stop crying about the lack of backwards compatability, it's not a crime to move forward and lack the ability to play old hardware. If you REALLY want to play a PS1, PS2 or PS3 game just keep the console and play it on that. Hell, I have my PS1 and PS2 both still working because I didn't just throw away the old product once the new one became available. I enjoy plugging the old consoles in and playing the old games on them, and I have no ill thoughts towards the PS3/PS4 and Xbox not being able to play my old games. They shouldn't have to, they're new, they should have their own collection of games for me to enjoy.

Ok, yes, movies and music have also progressed in hardware, HOWEVER, every movie and every song was not tailor made to a specific system that changed every few years. Think about how big a deal it is to make all these HD remakes we are getting nowadays. It costs a lot, and, depending on the console, can be rather complex to get older games reworked to be compatible with new systems. Transferring movies and music to new hardware is not nearly as complex as transferring video games. This means that many, many video games will never get any kind of official re-release on new systems.

I also have all my old systems. I have a PS1, PS2, Gamecube, and an Xbox, all hooked up and ready to play. However, think about 20-30 years down the line. No matter how much care and effort you put into keeping your old PS2 working, it will eventually break, just like everything else. And Sony no longer makes the PS2. This means eventually it will be incredibly hard just to find a working PS2, just like it is now pretty hard to find a real Ford Model T. Once this kind of thing happens, PS2 game collections will fade into memory, underrated games that never had the chance to be re-released disappearing from the minds of all but the few die-hard collectors.

And one more thing, in all of cinema history, how many radical changes in hardware have they really gone through in all this time? First, we had VHS, then came DVD's, and now we are on Blue-ray? So, two hardware changes since the 70's. Compared to video games, which, according to Wikipedia, we are now entering the eighth generation. So that adds up to two hardware changes in 40 years for cinema, and SEVEN in 40 years for gaming. And I am seeing no slowdown whatsoever in the span of time between console generations.

THIS is why backwards compatibility is important. It's not the same as changing movie formats from VHS to DVD, and it's not the same as records to CD's. If this next generation of consoles were the last one for the next 20 years, sure, I suppose backwards compatibility would be less of a major point. However, as Ubisoft just recently said, they want new consoles even sooner than 6-7 years. So I see no end to this lunacy in the near future.
And with that, /rant

elilupe:

Ok, yes, movies and music have also progressed in hardware, HOWEVER, every movie and every song was not tailor made to a specific system that changed every few years. Think about how big a deal it is to make all these HD remakes we are getting nowadays. It costs a lot, and, depending on the console, can be rather complex to get older games reworked to be compatible with new systems. Transferring movies and music to new hardware is not nearly as complex as transferring video games. This means that many, many video games will never get any kind of official re-release on new systems.

I also have all my old systems. I have a PS1, PS2, Gamecube, and an Xbox, all hooked up and ready to play. However, think about 20-30 years down the line. No matter how much care and effort you put into keeping your old PS2 working, it will eventually break, just like everything else. And Sony no longer makes the PS2. This means eventually it will be incredibly hard just to find a working PS2, just like it is now pretty hard to find a real Ford Model T. Once this kind of thing happens, PS2 game collections will fade into memory, underrated games that never had the chance to be re-released disappearing from the minds of all but the few die-hard collectors.

And one more thing, in all of cinema history, how many radical changes in hardware have they really gone through in all this time? First, we had VHS, then came DVD's, and now we are on Blue-ray? So, two hardware changes since the 70's. Compared to video games, which, according to Wikipedia, we are now entering the eighth generation. So that adds up to two hardware changes in 40 years for cinema, and SEVEN in 40 years for gaming. And I am seeing no slowdown whatsoever in the span of time between console generations.

THIS is why backwards compatibility is important. It's not the same as changing movie formats from VHS to DVD, and it's not the same as records to CD's. If this next generation of consoles were the last one for the next 20 years, sure, I suppose backwards compatibility would be less of a major point. However, as Ubisoft just recently said, they want new consoles even sooner than 6-7 years. So I see no end to this lunacy in the near future.
And with that, /rant

About the PS2 games fading into history thing, they won't. The PC still has a lot of emulators and as long as games are available somewhere, they can be played. I'm assuming you're talking about so far into the future that the PS2 library becomes public domain. At that point even a bad PC should be able to emulate the PS2 easily.

Considering how completely arcane PS3 architecture is, color me unsurprised.

Easton Dark:
Do a lot of people sell their consoles?

Yeah, this. I'm confused.

The PS4 not having backwards compatibility doesn't mean you can't play your PS3 games, nobody is taking them away from you.

I can see how it might be annoying if a PS4 user wants to try some older games they missed out on, or if your PS3 breaks, but I don't understand all the outrage and facepalming here...you could see it coming.

Am I missing something here?

I guess they never realized precisely why the PS2 was far and away the sales king of its console generation.

Zouriz:
For crying out loud, did Sony learn nothing from the Vita? This is the reason the Vita is constantly being out sold by the PSP.

The reason the Vita tanked was the fact that they were marketing to a small demographic: hardcore gamers on the go. Most people don't want to game on the go, they want to game in bit sized chunks with app-based games or at home in larger chunks. The DS sidesteps this by marketing to kids and a dedicated fanbase among adults.

OT: While this is defiantly sad, it isn't unexpected. Consoles aren't sold on the potential of past generations, they are sold on the potential of future games and big blockbusters. It sucks that is come down to this, but there really isn't much money-making potential in backwards compatibility.

Meanwhilst in PC land, I'm playing games from 20 years ago on a modern rig.

Really though, I don't get why this is that big a deal. You probably have a PS3. You're new PS4 won't have an inbuilt anti-PS3-minigun or something to destroy it with, so you will be able to game on both. Sure, its a minor inconvenience having to swap which one you've got hooked up to your TV if for some reason you can only link one at a time, but its hardly the end of the world >.>

Doesn't bother me in the least. I still have my PSOne and PS2, and I had no intentions of chucking my PS3. I always keep my old consoles/handhelds.

Hell, I still have an NES and Genesis, despite one of them plain not working and the other missing a cable.

I might just have a hoarder mentality, though.

<cue the flameshield>

Good. wait, hold on, stop throwing tomatos, hear me out.

First of all, im not familiar with PS2 architecture, but PS3 architecture was simply awful from a developing perspective Having backward compactability would mean they have to use similar architecture, which woudl be very bad. however if they drop this, they can make good architecture, and it seems that they are going this way. so while some functionality is lost, a lot is gained, which is good.
Secondly, even though there are many people shouting "me want backward compactability" hardly anyone use it. research shows that only a few % of gamers ever bothered with it. So developing a backward compactability woudl mean a HUGE investment in resources for a very small niche of your market. id rather have them spend these resources on things that majority will use, like making a decent online environment that does not resemble a 90s comic book.

Besides, its not like they are taking away your PS3 that you have, right?

I can understand why emulation would be difficult if not nigh impossible. However, the increasing focus on bloody social media is definitely something that's irritating me. It's just one thing that's making me increasingly happy to leave consoles behind even though I'll probably be sucked right back in if they get a decent selection of exclusives.

That's a damn shame. The problem with upgraded hardware like this is that you have to upgrade your whole library as well. When the PS3 eventually becomes obsolete, so will all it's games. Worse still, if you ever feel like replaying an old favourite or picking up some old gem you missed, you'd have to dig out your old console. Backwards compatibility may seem like a non-issue to a lot of people, but it's simply more convenient than having to swap between consoles.

The PS2 actually had really good backwards compatibility. From what I understand, the PS2 used the PS1 original processor as a kind of subprocessor so it could just run any PS1 game off of that.

EDIT: Oops, double post. Thanks captcha.

bug_of_war:
Now there is Blu Ray and if I have heard correctly you can't use DVDs in a Blu Ray player.

Slight misconception here. Blu-Ray does not play HD, it's competitor. It plays DVD just fine.

No backwards compatibility, no purchase. half my favorite games are PS1 and 2, and my PS2 still gets more use than my 360.

VanQQisH:
If Sony releases it without backwards compatibility people will bitch about that.

If Sony had released the PS4 with backwards compatibility it would have raised the price and people would bitch about that.

You just can't win with those kinds of people. I'm aware we still don't know how much the PS4 will cost but building PS3 hardware into it would not be free.

It can't be very profitable, even if cheap, to add in backwards compatibility to systems these days. I can't even say BC is useful perpetually for a console.

But the largest 'problem' I see, and that we all see, is that the general game library is large, and always growing. In every step 'forward' of a generation, consoles brutally cut off the old, and focus on the new. But I find myself more and more agitated that now ANOTHER new console DOESN'T support my old games, as unfortunately, I have not thrown them in the garbage like Sony/Microsoft thinks I should have. Its getting to the point where adding BC again WOULD be the fresh thing to do.

Now, none of this deludes the fact that BC is still a rather small issue (or rather, the system could have much worse problems). But it's not like 400$+ games is cheap either, for a typical game consumer (at least the ones console developers SHOULD target). I can't see adding BC terribly more expensive, especially if you've seen the super slim PS3 these days (looks cheeeeeeeeeeeap!)

EDIT: Now that Sony has denied me this, I'll just find reasons to NOT get the system, despite new features/games. For example....

If I, or even Sony, for that matter, is going to start divvying costs of features up, fuck, I might as well do that math for a gaming PC.

It will likely benefit them and us in the long run, they have switched from cell to x86 architecture which is a much more widely used and known architecture (PCs use it) so more and better games and less issues like the ones that have plagued skyrim for so long on the PS3. Plus if they are using the same as PC and Xbox then multi plats will get more polishing as dev teams will be spending far less time trying to make the port compatible.

Also if it goes well for them with the X86 and they stick with it to the PS5 then you can bet it will be backwards compatible.
As it stands now for the ps4 to have backwards compatibility it would basically have to have a ps3 inside of it and that would raise the cost and people would bitch about that way more.

Atmos Duality:

Hairless Mammoth:
The Vita has too much crap that adds to the cost that in reality is just a gimmick that will be used once or twice just to check it out. Maybe Sony is slowly starting to learn
from that.

On the contrary: The Vita's native library is so freaking TERRIBLE it needs that backwards compatibility.
Those PS1 titles done via emulation? Life support.

You're right. A new handheld gets a major boost when can play a game from a least the last generation. One thing in my pocket that plays new stuff and old is better than wearing bloated cargo pants after all. But , Sony dropped the ball almost ten years ago with a disk based handheld. Backwards compatibility on Vita would necessitate either either using that same expensive and power hungry UMD drive or adding it on the current Vita design. The Vita's guts take up enough juice as it is. They could helped the situation by letting us download our UMD titles like they did in Japan.

Joccaren:
Meanwhilst in PC land, I'm playing games from 20 years ago on a modern rig.

Really though, I don't get why this is that big a deal. You probably have a PS3. You're new PS4 won't have an inbuilt anti-PS3-minigun or something to destroy it with, so you will be able to game on both. Sure, its a minor inconvenience having to swap which one you've got hooked up to your TV if for some reason you can only link one at a time, but its hardly the end of the world >.>

I still play DOOM every so often on a computer that can play Skyrim on medium settings. Maybe I should sell my ps3 and 360 and go to Good Old Games.

JarinArenos:
No backwards compatibility, no purchase. half my favorite games are PS1 and 2, and my PS2 still gets more use than my 360.

I here ya, pal. I get a new game today and it sits on my shelf after running for 30 min because I find playing a 10 to 20 year old Final Fantasy, God of War or Metroid Prime over again for hundredth time more entertaining than all this rushed, focus group driven, online multiplayer garbage coming out today.

Hairless Mammoth:

You're right. A new handheld gets a major boost when can play a game from a least the last generation. One thing in my pocket that plays new stuff and old is better than wearing bloated cargo pants after all. But , Sony dropped the ball almost ten years ago with a disk based handheld. Backwards compatibility on Vita would necessitate either either using that same expensive and power hungry UMD drive or adding it on the current Vita design. The Vita's guts take up enough juice as it is. They could helped the situation by letting us download our UMD titles like they did in Japan.

UMD was a disaster. A format only practically suited for sequential access (movies, basically), and not programs.
They made the right choice in moving towards a solid-state format (via downloads), but now they're really shooting themselves in the foot with all of this upcharging of hardware and obsession with owning the user's unit wholly.

If the Vita's release schedule were as consistent and frequent as their DRM updates, it'd be the best system in existence.

loa:
Yeah, no.
They have no excuse not to have a ps2 software emulator with all the processing power that thing has.
But then again, why have that out of the box on day 1 and give me an actual reason to consider getting that thing to finally replace my ps2.

JarinArenos:
No backwards compatibility, no purchase. half my favorite games are PS1 and 2, and my PS2 still gets more use than my 360.

You must be able to buy a PS2 for half a packet of Wrigley's and a Bic razor. What difference does it make?

Woodsey:

loa:
Yeah, no.
They have no excuse not to have a ps2 software emulator with all the processing power that thing has.
But then again, why have that out of the box on day 1 and give me an actual reason to consider getting that thing to finally replace my ps2.

JarinArenos:
No backwards compatibility, no purchase. half my favorite games are PS1 and 2, and my PS2 still gets more use than my 360.

You must be able to buy a PS2 for half a packet of Wrigley's and a Bic razor. What difference does it make?

Well I don't have to stow yet another box away to access my quite extensive ps2 library and the emulation might be at a higher resolution and/or have an option for anti aliasing to make the games look better on HD tvs.

loa:

Woodsey:

loa:
Yeah, no.
They have no excuse not to have a ps2 software emulator with all the processing power that thing has.
But then again, why have that out of the box on day 1 and give me an actual reason to consider getting that thing to finally replace my ps2.

JarinArenos:
No backwards compatibility, no purchase. half my favorite games are PS1 and 2, and my PS2 still gets more use than my 360.

You must be able to buy a PS2 for half a packet of Wrigley's and a Bic razor. What difference does it make?

Well I don't have to stow yet another box away to access my quite extensive ps2 library and the emulation might be at a higher resolution and/or have an option for anti aliasing to make the games look better.

Still doesn't quite seem to cover the cost of a new console if you literally have no interest in the stuff coming out for it.

....Well I guess I'll just buy a Wii and play the exclusives I was missing out on. Thanks for helping with my backlog Sony. My avatar can tell you I loved that company, but I'm done with the new gen. It's not like they made games that were fun to play anyway. I think the PS3/360/Wii is the last gaming generation I'll participate in. It would certainly free up some cash.

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