Risen 2 - All DLC unlockable using console

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FelixG:
It is not a loophole, and there is no legality issue with it. You are just making things up, because these things can be applied to products you legally purchased.

The "circumvention of copy protection measures" is indeed unfortunately illegal and regulated throughout several countries, mostly also throughout the US (by the DMCA) and the EU by the European Union Copyright Directive from 2001 and different respective laws by their member states: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2003/07/15/germany_becomes_the_fifth_country_to_implement_eucd

Though there have also been some cases where judges ruled differently in cases e.g.:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2010/07/26/judge-rules-that-circumventing-drm-is-not-illegal/

In the US especially there's a pushing and pulling between their "Fair Use" laws and the "DMCA".

Ironclash:
Comparing this all to another part of PC gaming, to even it out, would be hardware.

Imagine buying a new mouse, specifically made for gaming. it has several new buttons, adjustable weights, etc. (I don't know what you guys are into these days, I happen to have one). In the booklet, it says that certain special features are disabled unless an optional install is done. Well guess what, the install disc for that is right there in the case, available online and can be ordered via phone if you don't have internet and misplaced the disc. All free of charge. This DLC would be a little sticker on the mouse saying: "come buy the disc from us when we're back form spending this money we made from selling several million restricted pieces of hardwae. Yeah it's done already, but papa needs a new car when his tanned self gets back from the luau."

I think Intel actually tried that kind of thing with their CPUs, "locking" them artificially to a certain cycle and offering an "Unlock Code".
http://www.pcworld.com/article/205772/intels_annoying_pilot_program_offers_chip_upgrade_for_a_fee.html

I don't think it was very popular or sought after/widespread as I haven't heard anything similar since.

FelixG:

Draech:

FelixG:

It is not a loophole, and there is no legality issue with it. You are just making things up, because these things can be applied to products you legally purchased.

In that case no one would have gone to jail for it.
http://www.actlab.utexas.edu/~aviva/compsec/cracker/crakhome.html
http://www.actlab.utexas.edu/~aviva/compsec/cracker/whocrack.html

You didnt even read the links you posted did you? Reading are hard?

None of those people were arrested for cracking key-gens and the like, they were all arrested for various crimes. Considering you couldnt be bothered to read allow me to point them out for you, I am just that good of a guy!

Mark was arrested for phone antics

Donald was arrested for breaking into a former employers server

414s were arrested for computer trespassing (And going after nuke secrets lol)

The German 20 were arrested for treason

Bill arrested for computer fraud

John arrested for phone tampering

Robert for breaking the god damn internet.

Its...its amazing...not a one cracked reg keys on videogames! So...where was this proof you were going to show me?

Yes and noone has gone to jail for being 1 mile over the speed limit, but there people who have gone to jail for reckless driving.

You are aware what data cracking is right?

I can be condescending as well. Like I said cracking in terms of copy right law is a nebulous thing since the EULA isn't legally binding and cracking is more or less considered a loophole. I am not a lawyer. I will not pretend to be. But I do know what cracking entails. There is a reason Piracy and Cracking go hand in hand.

I get the feeling you think I am accusing you of something. I am really not. I am just trying to make clear it is not as simple as "I can do whatever I want with the data, because I own disk".

Dexter111:

FelixG:
It is not a loophole, and there is no legality issue with it. You are just making things up, because these things can be applied to products you legally purchased.

The "circumvention of copy protection measures" is indeed unfortunately illegal and regulated throughout several countries, mostly also throughout the US (by the DMCA) and the EU by the European Union Copyright Directive from 2003 and different laws by their member states: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2003/07/15/germany_becomes_the_fifth_country_to_implement_eucd

Though there have also been some cases where judges ruled differently in cases e.g.:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2010/07/26/judge-rules-that-circumventing-drm-is-not-illegal/

In the US especially there's a pushing and pulling between their "Fair Use" laws and the "DMCA".

Ahhh thank you! This is the sort of thing I was looking for, I stand corrected and informed!

This game is a Steam download yes? If so, it seems likely that they patched the content into the game, and unlock it with the codes when you buy the DLC. Besides, since the game is being delivered via download, you could argue that everything made up until release was the same as "on-disc". Besides, wasn't everything potentially available as pre-order dlc?

This game is a Steam download yes? If so, it seems likely that they patched the content into the game, and unlock it with the codes when you buy the DLC. Besides, since the game is being delivered via download, you could argue that everything made up until release was the same as "on-disc". Besides, wasn't everything potentially available as pre-order dlc?

Draech:

Yes and noone has gone to jail for being 1 mile over the speed limit, but there people who have gone to jail for reckless driving.

State laws allows for some tolerance of error between the speedometer of the offending vehicle, and the radar used as evidence, which results in a legal tolerance of ~5mph.

Unless the cop is in a really bad mood and has absolutely nothing else to do* they aren't going after a petty offense. It's just more paperwork, and the state doesn't get much out of it when its all said and done.

(*unlikely; given the reduced manpower and budget cuts most police forces have taken due to the depression recession inhibiting tax revenue)

Reckless driving on the other hand, is far, far more serious and immediately threatening.
It's also usually part of another crime.

So if I buy this game I will get the main game and DLC, but since I don't have to Down Load this Content I actually get the game and Content. And since the Content is on the game disk I bought I guess that means it's mine.

Anyway won't buy this game since I don't like the gamepay I've seen, but even if I had wanted to buy it I think a better way to make a point would be to not buy it instead of buying it and cracking it for some dlc.

Dexter111:

Capcom:
"There is effectively no distinction between the DLC being "locked" behind the disc and available for unlocking at a later date, or being available through a full download at a later date, other than delivery mechanism."

Customers:
"There is effectively no distinction between playing the game by buying the disc, or downloading and burning it, other than delivery mechanism."

Okay yeah, that was freaking awesome....

Draech:

Does it matter that it is downloaded whole?

Yeah, it kinda does. You can argue you were sold "what was advertised," but you were advertised a product that contains this allegedly downloadable content. Since it's not usually advertised before launch, specially as a separate product, and then advertised as something extra you have to download, this is a pretty big fucking deal, honey.

Therumancer:

I'd keep track of people who defend policies like this, chances are they are industry shills and it's a sign you should take what they say with a grain of salt in general. Doubtlessly not every defender of this is one, but I'd imagine most people are, as it takes a very special kind of person to defend a company's right to cheat them. :)

Maybe I'm too cynical, or maybe you're not cynical enough, but I disagree. There ARE viral marketers, but I don't think they even make a difference anymore (if they ever did) consumers are too convinced to take the side of the poor unfortunate publisher, confusing that with loyalty and assuming it instead of desiring it be earned. I do think they're industry apologists, but that's a different story.

Zachary Amaranth:

Draech:

Does it matter that it is downloaded whole?

Yeah, it kinda does. You can argue you were sold "what was advertised," but you were advertised a product that contains this allegedly downloadable content. Since it's not usually advertised before launch, specially as a separate product, and then advertised as something extra you have to download, this is a pretty big fucking deal, honey.

But that is just the thing. You wern't advertised it. You wern't promised it. You bought understanding this wasn't part of the deal.
They made a pretty big deal out of pointing out this was an extra for those who paid more.

But if as far as I can tell your whole argument is "It has to be downloaded separately or else it isn't dlc because they advertised it as DLC", That still doesn't answer my question. Why?
How are you worse set with it in the files than without it?
It doesn't matter its there. You still dont have a right to it. They made sure to point out it was an upgrade for your product from day one. So Why?

hi all, liking this discussion so far.
here's my p.o.v. about this topic:

If you've legitimately purchased the game and registered it on steam, you can use whatever the game gives you access to, right?
Now console- and cheatcodes are given out for all kinds of games over long period of years, this was never a problem and won't ever be, imo

So you enter a console code you've found on the net and the game gives you access to more content, great, but wait a sec, no voices..
Now you can either play the extra content, that was unlocked in a legit way (!), without voices, or make it complete by paying for the voices which need to be downloaded (the DLC part)

Where's the problem?

Dexter111:

After activating the DLCs they are fully functional (even the one that was exclusive for the "Stahlbart's Schatz" edition of the game) aside from missing voice overs for those parts of the game.

So there goes any doubt that the DLCs weren't "cut out" from the game.

You know isnt the lack of voice actors kind of a major fucking hint that it wasnt cut out of the game. Also isnt advocating piracy against the rules on this forum? Because that is you know exactly what you are fucking doing.

Kahunaburger:
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to argue with this analogy - please elaborate.

My point is that considering that the "DL"C is content you can access in-game by using part of the game, the argument that it's piracy because it's "not content they sold to the player" holds about as much water as saying that extra lives in Contra are piracy because they're "not content they sold to the player."

I have an example for you then. When starcraft 2 came out for the first couple days you were able to use the blizzard downloader to download the full game and play the single player with a small exploit even if you didnt buy it. Is this piracy? Its the exact same fucking thing. You are using an exploit to get something for free which they obviously fully intended to sell.

Das Boot:
Also isnt advocating piracy against the rules on this forum? Because that is you know exactly what you are fucking doing.

I fail to see how he is advocating piracy. Even if he was, it would only be breaking the rules if he posted a link to where to pirate something.

It would be tyrannical if you couldn't discuss piracy and take a stance defending it.

accipitre:

Remember expansion packs? Those were the days. They were like DLC, except the devs weren't lazy. No "$10 for a new costume", it was more like "Hey, totally new map editor, new campaigns, new mechanics, and new factions for AoE 2! Oh, and have some extra map types and game modes as well."

I can imagine it will be like this:

Blizzard Then: You like Starcraft? Get the Brood War Expansion pack. You liked Diablo II? Get the Lord of Destruction Expansion Pack.
Blizzard Now: You liked Starcraft II? Buy the next installment later, but be sure to buy from our online marketplace for micro transactions!

Lovely Mixture:

Das Boot:
Also isnt advocating piracy against the rules on this forum? Because that is you know exactly what you are fucking doing.

I fail to see how he is advocating piracy. Even if he was, it would only be breaking the rules if he posted a link to where to pirate something.

It would be tyrannical if you couldn't discuss piracy and take a stance defending it.

You fail to see how telling people how to steal content for a game is piracy? He doesnt need to provide a link he is giving step by step instructions.

I'm thinking that since the sound files are the ones you buy, or the downloaded content that you presumably buy, then that means the licence you bought is for that sound files only.

Since you bought the game, and the licence allows you to use the game, console commands included, then the unlocking is perfectly legal from a technical perspective, and you aren't stealing anything.

Das Boot:

Lovely Mixture:

Das Boot:
Also isnt advocating piracy against the rules on this forum? Because that is you know exactly what you are fucking doing.

I fail to see how he is advocating piracy. Even if he was, it would only be breaking the rules if he posted a link to where to pirate something.

It would be tyrannical if you couldn't discuss piracy and take a stance defending it.

You fail to see how telling people how to steal content for a game is piracy? He doesnt need to provide a link he is giving step by step instructions.

No one is stealing anything. The content is right there on your hard drive, with the rest of the game files.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

No one is stealing anything. The content is right there on your hard drive, with the rest of the game files.

Except that you are getting access to something that you did not buy.

Das Boot:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

No one is stealing anything. The content is right there on your hard drive, with the rest of the game files.

Except that you are getting access to something that you did not buy.

If it came with your purchase game, then it's alright to access said files, whether or not they were intended to be used for other purposes.

It's not the buyer's fault if the developers include the DLC in the files instead of making them download the whole DLC instead. Hell, I thought the point of DLC is to download the entire content from an outside source.

Das Boot:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

No one is stealing anything. The content is right there on your hard drive, with the rest of the game files.

Except that you are getting access to something that you did not buy.

Yes you did. You bought the DVD and its content. All content, including the Island expansion thingy, come on the disc. (I refuse to call it DLC since it is not.)

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Yes you did. You bought the DVD and its content. All content, including the Island expansion thingy, come on the disc. (I refuse to call it DLC since it is not.)

Thatrocketeer:

Das Boot:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

No one is stealing anything. The content is right there on your hard drive, with the rest of the game files.

Except that you are getting access to something that you did not buy.

If it came with your purchase game, then it's alright to access said files, whether or not they were intended to be used for other purposes.

It's not the buyer's fault if the developers include the DLC in the files instead of making them download the whole DLC instead. Hell, I thought the point of DLC is to download the entire content from an outside source.

No you didnt. Do you people not even know what the fuck you are buying when you buy a game? You did not buy that content that was advertised as sold seperatly. You bought what they advertised to you and nothing more. You being ignorant is no excuse to be taking stuff that does not belong to you.

Das Boot:
No you didnt. Do you people not even know what the fuck you are buying when you buy a game? You did not buy that content that was advertised as sold seperatly. You bought what they advertised to you and nothing more. You being ignorant is no excuse to be taking stuff that does not belong to you.

But it does belong to me. The disc and its content are in my possession.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

But it does belong to me. The disc and its content are in my possession.

You really need to understand what you are buying. You onw the disc and a liscence to use the game. You do not have the right to alter that game or access locked partially finished content. You are not allowed to alter anything unless the developer/publisher gives you permission.

Das Boot:

No you didnt. Do you people not even know what the fuck you are buying when you buy a game? You did not buy that content that was advertised as sold seperatly. You bought what they advertised to you and nothing more. You being ignorant is no excuse to be taking stuff that does not belong to you.

If it was advertised as sold separately, and its not, that's not our fault, that may be even considered as false advertising by the developers, though I'm not really entirely sure about that. In any case, the developer's negligence/laziness to separate the DLC itself is no excuse for leaving the content that's supposed to be sold and downloaded separately in the game that I bought.

Das Boot:
You being ignorant is no excuse to be taking stuff that does not belong to you.

If I was someone who owned the game I would say: "If it doesn't belong to me, then they shouldn't have given it to me in the first place."

Das Boot:

You really need to understand what you are buying. You own the disc and a liscence to use the game. You do not have the right to alter that game or access locked partially finished content. You are not allowed to alter anything unless the developer/publisher gives you permission.

Ah-huh, so no modding and no hacking? I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Piracy is file-sharing. If the content wasn't on the disc and I copied it and gave it to someone else that would be piracy.

This is not piracy, this is something that anyone with basic knowledge of programming and game structure could do. I do it all the time for games that I have bought. Unless you want to tell them to be veeeery particular and not touch the "files that were intended to be DLC."

In that case you shouldn't even sell the game if you're gonna have a spy-cam on the buyers at all times to make sure they use the game "correctly."

Das Boot:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

But it does belong to me. The disc and its content are in my possession.

You really need to understand what you are buying. You onw the disc and a liscence to use the game. You do not have the right to alter that game or access locked partially finished content. You are not allowed to alter anything unless the developer/publisher gives you permission.

But you are not altering anything. The files remain the exact same.

Lovely Mixture:
I can imagine it will be like this:

Blizzard Then: You like Starcraft? Get the Brood War Expansion pack. You liked Diablo II? Get the Lord of Destruction Expansion Pack.
Blizzard Now: You liked Starcraft II? Buy the next installment later, but be sure to buy from our online marketplace for micro transactions!

Yeah, which freaking annoys me. I'm planning on going through D3 all by my lonesome, but I'm somehow dependent on being online, if only so pirates can be weeded out. The only reason the item auction exists is supposedly to cut back on the gold and item-farming industry that's so pervasive in D2.

What's sad is that both piracy and aggressive independent farming are still going to take place. Give the pirates enough time, and nearly anything can be made to be played in a truly single-player fashion, with fairly negligible disadvantages. Give the farmers a few months and you'll start seeing a tertiary economy pop up, even if North American players can only access North American servers. The only difference is the gold and item farmers are going to be local now, instead of Chinese or Korean.

Lovely Mixture:

Ah-huh, so no modding and no hacking? I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Piracy is file-sharing. If the content wasn't on the disc and I copied it and gave it to someone else that would be piracy.

You are right its not piracy in this case its copyright infringement. You do know that if a developer says no modding its actually illegal to mod the game right?

Thatrocketeer:

Das Boot:

No you didnt. Do you people not even know what the fuck you are buying when you buy a game? You did not buy that content that was advertised as sold seperatly. You bought what they advertised to you and nothing more. You being ignorant is no excuse to be taking stuff that does not belong to you.

If it was advertised as sold separately, and its not, that's not our fault, that may be even considered as false advertising by the developers, though I'm not really entirely sure about that. In any case, the developer's negligence/laziness to separate the DLC itself is no excuse for leaving the content that's supposed to be sold and downloaded separately in the game that I bought.

It is sold seperatly. You see you pay for the game and if you want more you have to pay for that sepperatly. What you get on the disk isnt even the full dlc, its missing at least the audio files. Its still to early to tell if anything else is missing though.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Das Boot:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

But it does belong to me. The disc and its content are in my possession.

You really need to understand what you are buying. You onw the disc and a liscence to use the game. You do not have the right to alter that game or access locked partially finished content. You are not allowed to alter anything unless the developer/publisher gives you permission.

But you are not altering anything. The files remain the exact same.

In a way though you are. You are gaining access to content that you did not purchase. Saying you purchased that content is just idiotic. You might as well be saying that since you bought the game you now own the engine that it was created in.

Y'know... I think I have the perfect solution to this. Listen up, all companies planning on-disc DLC!

Tell everyone you support gamers, that there will be none of that on-disc DLC malarky in your games, that you will only include filler code to prevent post-launch DLC from causing issues because you love the consumers so much...

...and then just take the DLC that was going to be on-disc or Day 1, hold onto it for three weeks, and release it then. The 'filler code' can just be supplimentary info intended to make sure the DLC works properly when launched, which will be easy to figure out cause... you already made the DLC. In full. You already know exactly how to make it work.

Literally, no one would be able to tell the difference. Hell, make it two months if you really wanna screw with people's minds. They'll champion your defense of consumer rights and line up to support you... for delaying their access to more of the game. And people won't be able to hack/crack it back into the game with disc alone. Problem solved.

Das Boot:

You are right its not piracy in this case its copyright infringement. You do know that if a developer says no modding its actually illegal to mod the game right?

At least you are beginning to understand what we're saying. It might be illegal, but that doesn't make it right (different argument though).

Das Boot:

It is sold seperatly. You see you pay for the game and if you want more you have to pay for that sepperatly. What you get on the disk isnt even the full dlc, its missing at least the audio files. Its still to early to tell if anything else is missing though.

You're avoiding the issue. It's on the disc and for us that is enough for full ownership.

Das Boot:

In a way though you are. You are gaining access to content that you did not purchase. Saying you purchased that content is just idiotic. You might as well be saying that since you bought the game you now own the engine that it was created in.

But you do own the engine, you don't own the license to it of course. But they gave us the software, isn't it our choice how we use it?

IamLEAM1983:

What's sad is that both piracy and aggressive independent farming are still going to take place. Give the pirates enough time, and nearly anything can be made to be played in a truly single-player fashion, with fairly negligible disadvantages. Give the farmers a few months and you'll start seeing a tertiary economy pop up, even if North American players can only access North American servers. The only difference is the gold and item farmers are going to be local now, instead of Chinese or Korean.

I hear you man. I like playing games alone, I was considering D3 until I heard about that online-requirement. Sure it may not be that different from Steam (though steam does have offline capabilities), but it's not about the requirement it's about choice.

poiuppx:
snip

Thinking about it this way makes you wonder how publishers and executives think. I doubt any of them are gamers.

Lovely Mixture:

At least you are beginning to understand what we're saying. It might be illegal, but that doesn't make it right (different argument though).

You're avoiding the issue. It's on the disc and for us that is enough for full ownership.

But you do own the engine, you don't own the license to it of course. But they gave us the software, isn't it our choice how we use it?

1) That was actually my initial argument.

2) The law disagrees with you.

3) See number two. You dont own the engine, you are given permission to play a game created in that engine. Hell you dont even really own a game when you buy it. Sure you own the disk but the actual game itself you are just getting a liscense to use it. Thats how all software has and for the foreseeable future will be.

Oh on-disc dlc. You are a slippery one aren't you? I understand why you exist and how you can be used legitimately to aid both the developer and the customer, but I still feel uncomfortable whenever I think about you.

Das Boot:

1) That was actually my initial argument.

That wasn't how I saw it, but ok.

Das Boot:

2) The law disagrees with you.

That's not much of an argument. So if I must start, I say it's because it takes away the rights of the consumers.

Das Boot:

snip

In a way though you are. You are gaining access to content that you did not purchase. Saying you purchased that content is just idiotic. You might as well be saying that since you bought the game you now own the engine that it was created in.

What did we purchase then? What constitutes the main game?

If a publisher releases a game, and that game has a massive sidequest that anyone can access easily just by going up and talking to a NPC, but the publishers say that you need to pay them money to do it, what then?

Are the publishers allowed to control our lives by basically saying that you're not allowed to use the thing you have right in front of you that came along with the thing you paid $60 for?

It's generally accepted that when you buy something you get everything that comes with in the package. I don't care what the copyright law says, that thing is in need of some serious revision. It lets shit like this happen, where the publisher is allowed to take content that they developed with the main game, include it on the disk, try to get us to pay for it, and then have the gall to still charge $60 for the "main" game.

Burst6:

Das Boot:

snip

In a way though you are. You are gaining access to content that you did not purchase. Saying you purchased that content is just idiotic. You might as well be saying that since you bought the game you now own the engine that it was created in.

What did we purchase then? What constitutes the main game?

If a publisher releases a game, and that game has a massive sidequest that anyone can access easily just by going up and talking to a NPC, but the publishers say that you need to pay them money to do it, what then?

Are the publishers allowed to control our lives by basically saying that you're not allowed to use the thing you have right in front of you that came along with the thing you paid $60 for?

It's generally accepted that when you buy something you get everything that comes with in the package. I don't care what the copyright law says, that thing is in need of some serious revision. It lets shit like this happen, where the publisher is allowed to take content that they developed with the main game, include it on the disk, try to get us to pay for it, and then have the gall to still charge $60 for the "main" game.

What you were promised.

Essentially anything that you paid for that they didn't say "this is an extra"

It is surprisingly simple.

You know like.... those particular parts people more or less vent around the security to play. Those arn't part of the standard package. The clue is kinda in them calling it DLC.

Draech:

Zachary Amaranth:

Draech:

They made a point out of selling that stuff separately. You hacked the game so you have access to it is no different than hacking steam servers to have access to dlc there. "it is on the disk" carries no more weight than "it is on the server".

Except one definitively negates the "downloadable" part of "downloadable content."

They did include the batteries. They're there on the disc. They're just charging you to use what's already included.

That doesn't make it right to hack the disc, mind, but te batteries are there.

Does it matter that it is downloaded whole?

Yes. It does. When I install a game on my PC/360/PS3 it is for that game and game only. My hard drive space is preciously limited (especially on the 360 where its bloody restricted. In my opinion, using my hardware for storage without paying a fee is unwarranted. It may seem petty but when I have 5 or 6 games installed and then it turns out that each ate up an extra gig of space that it doesn't need it irks me because I could install a game that I paid for and play.

And if you wish to keep this silly analogy going, they put the batteries into my home in a lock box and I must keep the crap occupying the space even if I don't want it or want to purchase it.

FoolKiller:

Draech:

Zachary Amaranth:

Except one definitively negates the "downloadable" part of "downloadable content."

They did include the batteries. They're there on the disc. They're just charging you to use what's already included.

That doesn't make it right to hack the disc, mind, but te batteries are there.

Does it matter that it is downloaded whole?

Yes. It does. When I install a game on my PC/360/PS3 it is for that game and game only. My hard drive space is preciously limited (especially on the 360 where its bloody restricted. In my opinion, using my hardware for storage without paying a fee is unwarranted. It may seem petty but when I have 5 or 6 games installed and then it turns out that each ate up an extra gig of space that it doesn't need it irks me because I could install a game that I paid for and play.

And if you wish to keep this silly analogy going, they put the batteries into my home in a lock box and I must keep the crap occupying the space even if I don't want it or want to purchase it.

Now there is an issue that has some real baring. Sloppy design inconveniences you the customer for no other reason than the developer didn't do a good enough job.

It is an issue none has touched on so far (my self included) because people have been focusing "it is cut content". My question wasn't meant to focus on convenience, but instead on the perceived value of the game.

Let me get it back on track. Does knowing there was more content make the content you enjoyed worse?

People wern't focusing on "they are filling up my HDD". People were focusing on what they decided to be the full exp was more than what the developer decided.

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