Risen 2 - All DLC unlockable using console

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Lyri:

Draech:

Kahunaburger:
Hahahahaha that's beautiful. Apparently "on-disc DLC" is rapidly coming to mean "free DLC."

That is the idiocy of the whole thing. Just because it is on the disk doesn't mean it was free. It is their prerogative on how they will sell their games.

That it uses batteries does't mean "batteries included". Capcom did a somewhat crappy thing of making a lot of commercials and trailers without telling that the chars shown are sold separately, but when we are informed of what we are and arn't buying I dont really see the problem.

Are you actually trying to tell someone that if you walked out to the store, bought a copy of Risen 2 that some of those files on the disk are not yours?
What world do you live in?

Do you buy a bar of chocolate only to be told you can have the wrapper but not the actual bar itself?
I'm sorry but you're just flat out backwards, they intended to sell unlock codes for the DLC and not the DLC itself, the consumer already has that.
Someone has found a way to open it via ingame console commands, no hacking just using an ingame tool readily available for public use.

So I can do whatever I want with it because it is a universal right that fits for all things?

I can take this software and install it on as many computers as I want because it is an universal right?

Does that apply all software since you buy it? What about windows?

Is it really that simple in your world? there is one rule and it apply for everything?

I am sorry. You dont buy the game. You buy a licence for use. Sorry Bob. Get over it. That is how software works. It is the only way you can get away with selling a million dollar product for 50$.. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money on it. 50$ didn't make it yours. Just allowed you to use it and you are limited to how you can use it.

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

Piflik:
To be fair to the developer/publisher...all these DLCs were part of collectors or special editions or reward for preordering...they weren't meant to be DLC that was created after the game launched.

It was still quite stupid of them to put it on the disc and make it so readily available...

I like how everyone skipped over this guy's post about the extra content for the game in question.

Draech:

Lyri:

Draech:

That is the idiocy of the whole thing. Just because it is on the disk doesn't mean it was free. It is their prerogative on how they will sell their games.

That it uses batteries does't mean "batteries included". Capcom did a somewhat crappy thing of making a lot of commercials and trailers without telling that the chars shown are sold separately, but when we are informed of what we are and arn't buying I dont really see the problem.

Are you actually trying to tell someone that if you walked out to the store, bought a copy of Risen 2 that some of those files on the disk are not yours?
What world do you live in?

Do you buy a bar of chocolate only to be told you can have the wrapper but not the actual bar itself?
I'm sorry but you're just flat out backwards, they intended to sell unlock codes for the DLC and not the DLC itself, the consumer already has that.
Someone has found a way to open it via ingame console commands, no hacking just using an ingame tool readily available for public use.

So I can do whatever I want with it because it is a universal right that fits for all things?

I can take this software and install it on as many computers as I want because it is an universal right?

Does that apply all software since you buy it? What about windows?

Is it really that simple in your world? there is one rule and it apply for everything?

I am sorry. You dont buy the game. You buy a licence for use. Sorry Bob. Get over it. That is how software works. It is the only way you can get away with selling a million dollar product for 50$.. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money on it. 50$ didn't make it yours. Just allowed you to use it and you are limited to how you can use it.

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

To make the analogy a little less false. You buy what you think is a plain chocolate bar. You find that, for whatever reason, there are almonds in your chocolate bar. You weren't expecting them, and you didn't pay for them, but there they are.

Are you saying, then, that it would be wrong to eat the almonds?

Hum... interesting.

GTA3 received an AO rating because of content that was unlockable with a few lines of code.

If that was seen as a legitimate feature that a user has rightful access to, I don't see why unlocking Risen2's DLC with the console would be illegal.

Methinks that the only thing you're really required to pay for is the audio content.

Buretsu:

Draech:

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

To make the analogy a little less false. You buy what you think is a plain chocolate bar. You find that, for whatever reason, there are almonds in your chocolate bar. You weren't expecting them, and you didn't pay for them, but there they are.

Are you saying, then, that it would be wrong to eat the almonds?

If the company that produces the candy bar says that you cant eat the almonds, then its 'wrong' to eat the almonds. At least, from the perspective of the producing company. You may disagree, but you did not produce the candy bar, nor do you hold the rights to how to make the candy bar. You just bought it to eat it, no?

Who knows for what reason that a company would put almonds into a candy bar that should not have almonds inside, or DLC on a disk, when it clearly is not content downloaded, but the point that companies DO hold sway on their IP's, and always want the consumer to know this is a point we REALLY need to get across in this thread. It's not the right thing to do at all, in my opinion, but the holders of the IP have the rights to the game, and how it is distributed.

You may not like this, you may not care (If my personal feelings can help you empathize, I would not care either). But what I WILL be aware of is that if you don't follow an EULA on a game, you're not going to be looked upon favorably by that game's publisher. They may enforce a policy (or not) on a game if that's broken, no matter how weak or silly the delivery method is for that license.

So (and I'll admit, I'm looking at OP here) don't go thinking you're the good guy, waving the flag of justice because publisher policy sucks (and it blows, too), because it doesn't help. Morally, you're correct to decry this crap, but businesses, game industry included, don't run on morals. They run on money. Bitching and moaning on how wrong a game is sold doesn't sort out the facts.

Legality never comes into it, for the common Joe atleast.

It's impossible already to stick the copyright law on natural persons who are copying their friend's games, let alone trying to stick the questionable shrink-wrapped EULAs on the common people.

Nothing scary is going to happen if you bought the disc and you play the "DLC" on that disc too, except maybe for the game itself to suck balls. Legality here is a non-issue.

As for morality, there's no harm done playing the "DLC" for free and buying full-priced games is already being charitable.

Buretsu:

Draech:

Lyri:

Are you actually trying to tell someone that if you walked out to the store, bought a copy of Risen 2 that some of those files on the disk are not yours?
What world do you live in?

Do you buy a bar of chocolate only to be told you can have the wrapper but not the actual bar itself?
I'm sorry but you're just flat out backwards, they intended to sell unlock codes for the DLC and not the DLC itself, the consumer already has that.
Someone has found a way to open it via ingame console commands, no hacking just using an ingame tool readily available for public use.

So I can do whatever I want with it because it is a universal right that fits for all things?

I can take this software and install it on as many computers as I want because it is an universal right?

Does that apply all software since you buy it? What about windows?

Is it really that simple in your world? there is one rule and it apply for everything?

I am sorry. You dont buy the game. You buy a licence for use. Sorry Bob. Get over it. That is how software works. It is the only way you can get away with selling a million dollar product for 50$.. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money on it. 50$ didn't make it yours. Just allowed you to use it and you are limited to how you can use it.

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

To make the analogy a little less false. You buy what you think is a plain chocolate bar. You find that, for whatever reason, there are almonds in your chocolate bar. You weren't expecting them, and you didn't pay for them, but there they are.

Are you saying, then, that it would be wrong to eat the almonds?

This is the problem with making an analogy on the escapist forums. It goes out of hand. But it is makes same good good point that Kahunaburger put up earlier.

As the producer of said product they have a responsibility to make their product in such a manner that the customer have a harder time misusing it. It is sloppy programming. And they should have done better. But they didn't.

They setup how their product should be sold. They need to help enforce that. That means putting the "almonds" in a place where the customer needs to use effort to get to them. I still think they did that. Not awfully well, but they DLC isn't unlocked by it self. Requires effort.

Draech:

Lyri:

Draech:

That is the idiocy of the whole thing. Just because it is on the disk doesn't mean it was free. It is their prerogative on how they will sell their games.

That it uses batteries does't mean "batteries included". Capcom did a somewhat crappy thing of making a lot of commercials and trailers without telling that the chars shown are sold separately, but when we are informed of what we are and arn't buying I dont really see the problem.

Are you actually trying to tell someone that if you walked out to the store, bought a copy of Risen 2 that some of those files on the disk are not yours?
What world do you live in?

Do you buy a bar of chocolate only to be told you can have the wrapper but not the actual bar itself?
I'm sorry but you're just flat out backwards, they intended to sell unlock codes for the DLC and not the DLC itself, the consumer already has that.
Someone has found a way to open it via ingame console commands, no hacking just using an ingame tool readily available for public use.

So I can do whatever I want with it because it is a universal right that fits for all things?

I can take this software and install it on as many computers as I want because it is an universal right?

Does that apply all software since you buy it? What about windows?

Is it really that simple in your world? there is one rule and it apply for everything?

I am sorry. You dont buy the game. You buy a licence for use. Sorry Bob. Get over it. That is how software works. It is the only way you can get away with selling a million dollar product for 50$.. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money on it. 50$ didn't make it yours. Just allowed you to use it and you are limited to how you can use it.

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

Yes, yes you can. As long as it remains on a computer YOU own and is used by YOU.

Well, in the case of Windows, you're allowed to make a backup, and if you get a new computer, LEGALLY, you're allowed to use the same software. Microsoft might choose to disagree, but the prerogative of making sure you can't use it more than you want to is on THEM, not YOU or THE LAW. Bypassing Ubisoft's DRM may make them pissy (And they can deny you further service, such as updates and online functionality), but the law can't do anything to you for doing it if you don't redistribute it.

If you aren't making illegal copies of a piece of software AND redistributing it, COPYRIGHT LAW DOES NOT APPLY. Unless you're engaging in actual decryption, which this is not.

Draech:

Buretsu:

Draech:

So I can do whatever I want with it because it is a universal right that fits for all things?

I can take this software and install it on as many computers as I want because it is an universal right?

Does that apply all software since you buy it? What about windows?

Is it really that simple in your world? there is one rule and it apply for everything?

I am sorry. You dont buy the game. You buy a licence for use. Sorry Bob. Get over it. That is how software works. It is the only way you can get away with selling a million dollar product for 50$.. If you dont like it, then dont spend your money on it. 50$ didn't make it yours. Just allowed you to use it and you are limited to how you can use it.

And more importantly.
To use your false analogy correctly.
You were told directly what you were buying. They didn't tell you last second that you didn't buy the chocolate. They pointed out right from the start what you bought.

To make the analogy a little less false. You buy what you think is a plain chocolate bar. You find that, for whatever reason, there are almonds in your chocolate bar. You weren't expecting them, and you didn't pay for them, but there they are.

Are you saying, then, that it would be wrong to eat the almonds?

This is the problem with making an analogy on the escapist forums. It goes out of hand. But it is makes same good good point that Kahunaburger put up earlier.

As the producer of said product they have a responsibility to make their product in such a manner that the customer have a harder time misusing it. It is sloppy programming. And they should have done better. But they didn't.

They setup how their product should be sold. They need to help enforce that. That means putting the "almonds" in a place where the customer needs to use effort to get to them. I still think they did that. Not awfully well, but they DLC isn't unlocked by it self. Requires effort.

Ahh... so they "locked away" the almonds by including them in the same wrapper, but not in the bar itself! So the extra "effort" is in stuffing the almonds back into the bar, or melting them together again, or just eating them by the handful. It's not something the creators WANTED you to have, but they still sold it to you anyway.

Scow2:
It's not something the creators WANTED you to have, but they still sold it to you anyway.

I imaging he will argue that they "they only sold you the license to eat the chocolate and not the almonds."

Which would be absurd even when we consider software. If they don't want us to have it and mess around with it, don't give it to us.

This all reminds me of story where they sold some old OS with bugs still intact intentionally in order to maximize profit for updates. Would it have been illegal for us to fix what was given to us?

Gennadios:
Hum... interesting.

GTA3 received an AO rating because of content that was unlockable with a few lines of code.

If that was seen as a legitimate feature that a user has rightful access to, I don't see why unlocking Risen2's DLC with the console would be illegal.

Methinks that the only thing you're really required to pay for is the audio content.

Exactly what i was saying earlier, i don't see the problem, if you want it complete, just buy the DLC's (extended sound files)
I wonder why ppl keep on saying it's an illegal method...

I'm pretty sure they just forgot to remove those console codes, which were obviously meant for testing purposes.., with the new patch they removed them alright (a.k.a. publisher's "oops!").
Now there's only 1 way to get them again but it still doesn't change a thing, as before you just need to buy the DLC's (extended sound files).

Scow2:
Ahh... so they "locked away" the almonds by including them in the same wrapper, but not in the bar itself! So the extra "effort" is in stuffing the almonds back into the bar, or melting them together again, or just eating them by the handful. It's not something the creators WANTED you to have, but they still sold it to you anyway.

Except they didnt actually sell it to you.

Draech:

But if as far as I can tell your whole argument is "It has to be downloaded separately or else it isn't dlc because they advertised it as DLC", That still doesn't answer my question. Why?

Because they're lying, for one. Still not sure why you don't understand this, dear.

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