"Heroics" that left a bad taste in your mouth

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT
 

stupenderifous:

rhizhim:
can we pick movies too?

Yeah, but Django was not all that heroic anyway. He made some far more questionable decisions elsewhere and was more of an anti-hero. Besides, she seemed pretty complacent, if not supportive, of all of the stuff that was happening at Candieland so I get why Django would be pissed.

and django performing dressage riding at the end, killed a huge part of the movie for me.
-------------

far cry 3.

kill this rare and endangered animal so you can cut off one cubic decimeter of it to make a stupid purse.

thedoclc:

Contaminating the Sacred Ashes in Dragon Age: Origins. Let me set the stage; imagine you found the mortal remains of someone who was half Mohammed, half Joan d'Arc. Imagine you had seen significant magical proof you really were in a sacred place. Imagine those ashes were a great quest to heal a leader, similar to the Grail quest of Arthurian myth. You can go ahead and despoil them. Really. Because that makes sense. Even if you didn't believe in the Maker before, you'd just seen a great deal that would make it likely for you to accept the story as true. And even if you still doubted it, it's the dominant faith in the world. And you're just going to contaminate the remains because a crazy cult out of Innsmouth Haven tells you to.

Yeah, that made sense. It would be like discovering the Shroud of Turin was real, finding out that it healed anyone who touched it, then wiping your bottom with it.

It's been a while so forgive me if I get the names wrong!

Was it Ograhm? That dwarf beserker you could get? He noted that it was could've been due to that material (lyrium?) that caused the effects that the ashes entailed because there was such a massive concentration of it. So there's one reason why you'd might not believe the story.
Also? Role-Playing Elements. Imagine your role-playing a dwarf, or the dragon age equivalent for an athiest. If you came across indisputable proof that the Maker exists, wouldn't you be tempted to destroy that proof so that no-one else would believe in it?
Not to say it isn't a terrible thing to do, but I think there are justifiable reasons for the evil route.

Not to mention that I use only the finest in Spiritual Relics as toiletries! Shroud of Turin as toilet roll, ashes of the holy cross as shaving foam, you know how it is...

Yoshemo:

LarenzoAOG:
The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

There were plenty of times I killed an innocent or did some other sadistic thing and Kreia scolded me for it. Shes fine with cruelty to your own advantage but senseless cruelty is wrong

Yeah but there isn't anything to do light side wise that gives you favor with her. At least not that I know, but I play KOTOR almost exclusively light side.

Zetatrain:

Unia:

Alpha Protocol has you do a lot of shady things but what stuck with me was framing a guy as a convicted pedophile to get ahead. This wasn't even optional far as I could tell. Sure the man was working for The Evil PMC but for all we know he was some ignorant lackey.

That part is optional. If I remember correctly, you have to hack the hotel security computer to post his identity on the watch list. I never felt too bad about that since I figured the police would sooner or later figure out the database was hacked.

EDIT: I checked youtube and that is optional. Framing the Halbech employee gets rid of 2 of the 4 men who are guarding the elevator that you have to take, making it much easier to sneak by. However, it is still possible to take out all 4 guards without raising an alarm.

Good to know, this time I'll propably dump subtlety and just go in gun-ho. Especially after the game spawned a guard right in front of me, immediately raising alarm ):.

Worgen:
I tend to fly close air support in planetside 2 and I feel bad when I kill someone who is battle rank 1... well I feel bad when I kill a br 1 no matter what since its usually after they drop pod in and that is how the game starts, it just drop pods you into a big battle with no instruction, so killing a br 1 who just dropped in means your probably killing someone who just started playing and I don't like doing that.

Hehe yeah, started playing yesterday and my first life was literally get dropped in, wonder whether I got control yet, get shot. Some form of tutorial would have been nice.

captcha: I love deadlines. You're the only one Capctha.

Catfood220:

Unia:
Sometimes the protagonist of a game does something you find distasteful or morally suspect and then just passes it off with a oneliner we're apparently supposed to laugh at.

In Uncharted 2 there's a bit where Nathan goes off with a buddy to get something from a Turkish museum. Drake objects to using guns, to which I thought "Oh, he doesn't want to shoot guards for doing their job. Maybe this guy's alright after all." Nope. Few minutes later he throws a guard to his death, and his buddy even jokes about it.

Drake doesn't kill the guard, if you look down after you pull him off the roof, you can quite clearly see him swimming away. I know this to be true, I checked it out the last time I played through the game.

I wouldn't say it left too sour a taste in my mouth (it's even an important part of his character arc), but I just finished Ys Origin with Hugo and man is he a prick.

That said, it does make an interesting (and often amusing) contrast to Yunica, who's so pure-hearted and naive that at least one boss has to spell out "I'm a bad guy and I'm going to kill you!" (paraphrased, but not far off).

He's smart, arrogant and has a comeback for everything. But the only really hateable stuff stuff he does is supposed to be, so it's not really soured heroism either.
Just Toal to go...

Hmm. I'm really not sure what to say.
Judging by some of the entries my tastes are skewed. I agreed with most of the shit the Saints Row Prot. does. I hated Jason Brody because he's a self-entitled cowardly douchebag who has to man up and....take cocaine.....
fuck that guy...and all of his friends.

Tuftytufts:
Going around Panau in Just Cause 2, blowing up water towers and electric transformers in the civilian towns and cities. I guess it's to stir up resentment for the regime, but to be honest..

Just Cause 2 is a weird case in that, if it was played straight, it could easily be taken as a very politicised commentary/satire on US imperialism and morally dubious 'regime change.'

For me, the most distasteful 'heroics' I've ever experienced were in World of Warcraft. One of the early alliance zones revolves around the resurgence of the Defias Brotherhood. Now the Defias are supposed to be bad guys - they're the enemy group of the first dungeon in the game, the Deadmines - but throughout the zone you don't actually see the Defias doing anything wrong. The zone is a catacylsm-ravaged dustbowl and the Stormwind authorities are doing absolutely nothing to alleviate the suffering, while Defias agents are doing evil things like... um.... distributing food to refugees.

I have rarely if ever felt more that I was on the wrong side, and by the time the storyline forced me to go and warn the King about the return of the Brotherhood I wanted to join them, or at least kick Varian's backside and tell him that he wouldn't have this problem if he'd only get off his lazy warmongering arse and do something to stop his own damn people from starving to death.

Sixcess:

For me, the most distasteful 'heroics' I've ever experienced were in World of Warcraft. One of the early alliance zones revolves around the resurgence of the Defias Brotherhood. Now the Defias are supposed to be bad guys - they're the enemy group of the first dungeon in the game, the Deadmines - but throughout the zone you don't actually see the Defias doing anything wrong. The zone is a catacylsm-ravaged dustbowl and the Stormwind authorities are doing absolutely nothing to alleviate the suffering, while Defias agents are doing evil things like... um.... distributing food to refugees.

Yeah, there are quite a few morally questionable acts that you can do as a protagonist in WoW. I remember I was playing a blood elf character, and the Taurens asked me to go kill a bunch of centaur. The thing is though, that the centaurs are clearly sentient. They have their own culture, they clearly are smart enough to use tools and build tents and such, and they all have families. It didn't feel right killing them.

WanderingFool:

Actually, yes, if we were to go by the Ancient Greek usage of the term Hero.

wikipedia:
A hero, in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod, their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion. A demigod is the son or daughter from one immortal and one mortal parent, an example would be Heracles, son of the mortal queen Alcmene and the god Zeus.

The protagonist of Saints Row had a parent who was an immortal deity? I must have missed the part where that's explained.

rhizhim:

stupenderifous:

rhizhim:
can we pick movies too?

Yeah, but Django was not all that heroic anyway. He made some far more questionable decisions elsewhere and was more of an anti-hero. Besides, she seemed pretty complacent, if not supportive, of all of the stuff that was happening at Candieland so I get why Django would be pissed.

and django performing dressage riding at the end, killed a huge part of the movie for me.
-------------

far cry 3.

kill this rare and endangered animal so you can cut off one cubic decimeter of it to make a stupid purse.

I don't want to spoil the movie, so I'll put my response in the spoiler-thingy.



And Jason's hunting isn't painted as heroic, he's just trying to survive. Seriously dude...

LarenzoAOG:

Yoshemo:

LarenzoAOG:
The Exile in KOTOR 2 and his/her relationship with Kreia, you start the game out having had the Force removed from you then getting it back, Kreia is more or less a tutor for you regardless of your morality, if she likes you she teaches you all kinds of neat Force stuff, but she only likes you if you shit on the less fortunate, basically all the things that that make her like you more are evil things, which is even worse because she's supposed to be this Grey Area super Jedi, she was once a Jedi Master and a Sith Lord, but she wants you to do all kinds of shitty dark side things.

There were plenty of times I killed an innocent or did some other sadistic thing and Kreia scolded me for it. Shes fine with cruelty to your own advantage but senseless cruelty is wrong

Yeah but there isn't anything to do light side wise that gives you favor with her. At least not that I know, but I play KOTOR almost exclusively light side.

Considering who she ends up being revealed as at the end of the game, why exactly are you expecting her to give your brownie points for being Light Side? That goes against everything she believes in.

Kratos, all the time. "Oh hey, that guy helped me but doesn't want me to kill his daughter so I can get my personal revenge and fuck up the world. Better kill him." I raged so goddamn hard in GoW 3 when he kills....that one dude chained up in the UNderworld.

In Homefront --aside from that whole game being a unbearably heavy-handed, racist, paranoia machine-- there's one section where one of your allies uses mustard gas or something on the Koreans and burns them alive then asks if anyone else can smell 'Korean Barbecue'.

The other characters chastise him for doing it, but I still thought, 'you really expect me to be on side with arseholes like this? Fuck your shitty game, how do I defect and join the Koreans.'

Weealzabob:
Doing the Clan Wars mission in Borderlands 2, as things were escalating between the two clans who seemingly had a truce going on before you got involved, I was ready to run over Ellie and call it quits.

I'm sure that two clans had done some messed up shit off screen, but still you're doing some messed up shit on screen.

I know what you mean, I love the game but in the mission where you crash the wake and a character shouts, 'who the hell crashes a god damn wake?!' I did think, 'wait, who does crash a god damn wake?!'

trty00:

rhizhim:

stupenderifous:

Yeah, but Django was not all that heroic anyway. He made some far more questionable decisions elsewhere and was more of an anti-hero. Besides, she seemed pretty complacent, if not supportive, of all of the stuff that was happening at Candieland so I get why Django would be pissed.

and django performing dressage riding at the end, killed a huge part of the movie for me.
-------------

far cry 3.

kill this rare and endangered animal so you can cut off one cubic decimeter of it to make a stupid purse.

I don't want to spoil the movie, so I'll put my response in the spoiler-thingy.



And Jason's hunting isn't painted as heroic, he's just trying to survive. Seriously dude...

man, let me say this.

doing donuts with a horse is.... well. eh?

and to jason:
good if he is "trying" to survive but does he really need to skin 6 endangered tigers to make a fancy purse? come on!

Reaper195:
Kratos, all the time. "Oh hey, that guy helped me but doesn't want me to kill his daughter so I can get my personal revenge and fuck up the world. Better kill him." I raged so goddamn hard in GoW 3 when he kills....that one dude chained up in the UNderworld.

and when he uses a woman to stop one of those levers...

what a dick.

rhizhim:

Reaper195:
Kratos, all the time. "Oh hey, that guy helped me but doesn't want me to kill his daughter so I can get my personal revenge and fuck up the world. Better kill him." I raged so goddamn hard in GoW 3 when he kills....that one dude chained up in the UNderworld.

and when he uses a woman to stop one of those levers...

what a dick.

In fact, just about everything Kratos does makes him less and less likeable. In the second game, wasn't he cased out of Olympis becasue he was just warring on everything for no real reason?

Abomination:
Yes, the honourable thing to do is ship the triplet off to rape island.

I do not remember that happening. The only triplets in the game I know of are the Pendeltons, and you get them sent to work in their own mines.
Anyway, I don't think anybody calls the non-lethal playthrough 'honorable'. It's simply non-lethal.

EDIT: Wait, I remember the mission you were talking about.
Yeah, that was creepy as shit.

Mycroft Holmes:

WanderingFool:

Actually, yes, if we were to go by the Ancient Greek usage of the term Hero.

wikipedia:
A hero, in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod, their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion. A demigod is the son or daughter from one immortal and one mortal parent, an example would be Heracles, son of the mortal queen Alcmene and the god Zeus.

The protagonist of Saints Row had a parent who was an immortal deity? I must have missed the part where that's explained.

It would explain quite a lot if that was the case.

kman123:
Dishonored really screwed up on the good/bad moral dilemma, seeing as the 'good' version of doing things is far, far worse than death. Selling someone into slavery for the rest of their life? Giving up that woman to that stalker dude was fucking creepy. I'd rather just kill her but nooooooooo I had to get the GOOD ending.

Wait wait, I just started the game, and the more moral conclusion essentially entails you becoming a human trafficker?
Those are some bloody terrible implications concerning the writers...

Reaper195:

rhizhim:

Reaper195:
Kratos, all the time. "Oh hey, that guy helped me but doesn't want me to kill his daughter so I can get my personal revenge and fuck up the world. Better kill him." I raged so goddamn hard in GoW 3 when he kills....that one dude chained up in the UNderworld.

and when he uses a woman to stop one of those levers...

what a dick.

In fact, just about everything Kratos does makes him less and less likeable. In the second game, wasn't he cased out of Olympis becasue he was just warring on everything for no real reason?

i think so.

the problem with god of war is that in the first game his anger was reasonable. he was tricked to kill his own family.

but then it all became like the stupid reaction video pandemic on youtube.

kratos is angry at x. BESTES EPIC REACTION EVAR!

kman123:
Dishonored really screwed up on the good/bad moral dilemma, seeing as the 'good' version of doing things is far, far worse than death. Selling someone into slavery for the rest of their life? Giving up that woman to that stalker dude was fucking creepy. I'd rather just kill her but nooooooooo I had to get the GOOD ending.

Mikejames:
Wait wait, I just started the game, and the more moral conclusion essentially entails you becoming a human trafficker?
Those are some bloody terrible implications concerning the writers...

It isn't about morality. It's about revenge, and getting rid of a corrupt regime.
Bear in mind, you don't learn about most non-lethal options until half-way through the level. Corvo is going into these missions planning to kill his targets. Then some guy says 'I could do this instead...' and Corvo says 'Yeah, okay'. If he doesn't want to kill someone, he has to take the option presented to him, because that's the only one he has.

Incidentally, you only get the High Chaos (Bad) ending if you kill LOTS of people. You can kill your targets, and still get Low Chaos (Good) ending.

rhizhim:

trty00:

rhizhim:

and django performing dressage riding at the end, killed a huge part of the movie for me.
-------------

far cry 3.

kill this rare and endangered animal so you can cut off one cubic decimeter of it to make a stupid purse.

I don't want to spoil the movie, so I'll put my response in the spoiler-thingy.



And Jason's hunting isn't painted as heroic, he's just trying to survive. Seriously dude...

man, let me say this.

doing donuts with a horse is.... well. eh?

and to jason:
good if he is "trying" to survive but does he really need to skin 6 endangered tigers to make a fancy purse? come on!

Okay, now you're just banging on Farycry 3's mechanincs. This clip has never seemed more appropriate in my opinion.




Noswad:
I'm just played the beginning monkey island 2 and I've only just finished the largo embargo but I've only just realised Guybrush is a dick.

Also is it me or does the Eldar scroll's series contain an uncomfortably large amount of grave robbing, it surprises me that a society that puts so much stake in the favour of the god's and magic, that defiling the tombs of the dead is practically the national sport.

And FTL, there's not a lot of story to go on but all a can tell is that there has been a popular rebellion in which the old regime is on it's last legs and i can't help but wonder, how did the rebellion get so powerful? why do so many people have grievances with the old space government? is it possible that I am playing as the Empire post return of the Jedi?

Yep, in every Elder Scrolls game you plunder dozens of tombs, and no one seems to mind. It was especially strange in Morrowind, with all the ancestor and Tribunal worship. The Nine Divines have nothing against graverobbing, though.

trty00:

rhizhim:

trty00:

I don't want to spoil the movie, so I'll put my response in the spoiler-thingy.



And Jason's hunting isn't painted as heroic, he's just trying to survive. Seriously dude...

man, let me say this.

doing donuts with a horse is.... well. eh?

and to jason:
good if he is "trying" to survive but does he really need to skin 6 endangered tigers to make a fancy purse? come on!

Okay, now you're just banging on Farycry 3's mechanincs. This clip has never seemed more appropriate in my opinion.




point of this thread is to list things that left a bad taste in your mouth.
and dont tell me skinning hundreds of animals just for their skin doesnt slighly make you feel uncomfortable.

and yes, revenge is a dirty business. and it is apparently also fucking blind.

TrilbyWill:
It isn't about morality. It's about revenge, and getting rid of a corrupt regime.
Bear in mind, you don't learn about most non-lethal options until half-way through the level. Corvo is going into these missions planning to kill his targets. Then some guy says 'I could do this instead...' and Corvo says 'Yeah, okay'. If he doesn't want to kill someone, he has to take the option presented to him, because that's the only one he has.

Incidentally, you only get the High Chaos (Bad) ending if you kill LOTS of people. You can kill your targets, and still get Low Chaos (Good) ending.

Corvo can get away with offing plenty of people regardless of their level of involvement; his personal revenge is a pretty thin justification at that point.
I just don't like the ideology that selling your enemy's accomplice to a potential rapist is what's supposed to lead to a happier ending on your part.

Dark Souls.
The entire game.
You kill your way to a goal you don't even comprehend and know fully well are being lied about. Refusing to fulfil the prophecy could possibly bring about the destruction of all humankind... or their transcendence. Fulfilling it might save the world... or simply restore the tyranny of the gods. At the very end of your journey, you murder the broken, burned-out husk that was once the mighty leader of the gods while


And you never get an answer either way, however you choose.

Although I'm fairly certain this was completely intentional.

He's an anti-hero so maybe doesn't count but I've always hated Nico Belic's guts.

rhizhim:

trty00:

rhizhim:

man, let me say this.

doing donuts with a horse is.... well. eh?

and to jason:
good if he is "trying" to survive but does he really need to skin 6 endangered tigers to make a fancy purse? come on!

Okay, now you're just banging on Farycry 3's mechanincs. This clip has never seemed more appropriate in my opinion.




point of this thread is to list things that left a bad taste in your mouth.
and dont tell me skinning hundreds of animals just for their skin doesnt slighly make you feel uncomfortable.

and yes, revenge is a dirty business. and it is apparently also fucking blind.

No, this thread is for HEROICS that left a bad taste in you mouth.

Once again, Jason's skinning isn't portrayed as heroism. He's skinning animals in order to increase his survival. It's not heroics, dude's just trying to get by. Simple as. Besides, it's not like when you skin the animal all of its flesh is shown to be stripped, the corpse is just bloody. You criticized me on Lara's complacency, and used the argument that we don't see her present during Calvin's atrocities. Same basic principle. You don't see it, so how do you know? See how that goes both ways?



Way to not actually adress any of my arguments about Django by the way.


Finally, and this one goes out to several people.

Kratos? Fucking really?! I could understand how you might be uncomfortable with the stuff he does, but when the fuck is he portrayed as the good guy in any GOW games that aren't the first one? Same goes for Jason Brody actually, when is he portrayed as anything other than a guy trying to save his friends?

Protagonist =/= Hero

I'm surprised I'm not seeing this more often. I definitely nominate Uncharted's Nathan Drake. He has the most punchable face in gaming. Bonus Douche Points for constantly becoming a Chosen-One-esque "hero" simply by the virtue of being the handsomest douche in the room.

Gears of War: It is revealed that the fuel society runs on is actually a living hive-mind organism that can infect living things if given long enough to adapt to them.
The Locust were simply retaliating to it being dumped into their home after failing to peacefully negotiate.

Saviordd1:
This is implying Renegade/Paragon was anything other than "black v. white"

I mean, in the first game you have the option to slaughter a colony because renegade shepard just isn't feelin' the whole saving people thing today.

I would contest that Paragon/Renegade is, for the most part, anything BUT "black v. white." The majority of renegade choices aren't about being evil, they're about being kind of a dick but doing so with the ultimate goal of saving everyone. Renegade Shepard doesn't have time for anyone's shit, they want to finish the job in a way that gives them the best possible advantage against their enemy without caring who they have to step on. That's not evil, it's just being an ass about it.

I figured the way renegade Shep would justify their actions on Feros would be to say that they're working to save the ENTIRE GALAXY, so a handful of dead colonists was the least of their worries. It's strange that your teammates just go along with it though.

I'm using a film example but still... Anyone remember that film from about 3 years ago called "Harry Brown"? The things he does in that film to the "chavs" (The almost racial epithet ascribed to this group of lower-class teens) repulsed me. He tortures people and mocks them as he kills them... Granted these people are presented as some of the most repugnant people the human race ever produced but seeing as the film acts like it's almost a social commentary the commentary seems to be saying "You see those teenagers loitering out there? Well go get a big knife and gun and just go to town! They deserve it anyway... They're probably rapists and murderers" I'd also like to point out that similar/worse scenes of violence as seen in films like "A Clockwork Orange" or any Tarantino Film do not bother me. As the violence isn't presented positively it's either ironic/over-the-top/cartoon-like or to show how horrible the villain is. Harry Brown doesn't use the violence as comedy/ironic statement it seems to be supporting violence against "chavs".

Considering the class "difficulties" and the kind of "ghetto" and "sub-people" attitude many British people seem to have adopted to teenagers and especially council-house dwellers, this film comes off as basically immoral because it glorifies this de-humanization. I'd like to point out that this is literally the only film/book/anything I have ever regarded as such that (at least in my experience) no-one really questioned. I can't help but think that if a similar film was made about slaughtering "black" thugs, or "gay" thugs with such reckless "they're all the same" abandon people would be calling for the filmmakers heads.

saluraropicrusa:

Saviordd1:
This is implying Renegade/Paragon was anything other than "black v. white"

I mean, in the first game you have the option to slaughter a colony because renegade shepard just isn't feelin' the whole saving people thing today.

I would contest that Paragon/Renegade is, for the most part, anything BUT "black v. white." The majority of renegade choices aren't about being evil, they're about being kind of a dick but doing so with the ultimate goal of saving everyone. Renegade Shepard doesn't have time for anyone's shit, they want to finish the job in a way that gives them the best possible advantage against their enemy without caring who they have to step on. That's not evil, it's just being an ass about it.

I figured the way renegade Shep would justify their actions on Feros would be to say that they're working to save the ENTIRE GALAXY, so a handful of dead colonists was the least of their worries. It's strange that your teammates just go along with it though.

No, that's lazy and evil.

Lets also go down the list of things renegade Shepard has done

*Shot their friends
*Continuously tells their teammates to shut the hell up about their problems
*Punches a reporter
*Kills the leading government for humanities gain
*Gets countless innocents killed cause fuck it
*Leaves a refinery to burn for one mans personal bullshit
*Let one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy commit suicide and then killed her daughter, cause fuck it

and more I've forgotten.

These aren't "Looking at the big picture" these are being evil and lazy. That's what renegade Shepard is, and has been, evil and lazy.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked