Darksiders

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I really think that the responsibility of this is still on the producer: after all, he/she had to have looked at Madureira's work and selected him for the position, and then you have the fact that the character designs had to be signed off on...

Honestly, I don't think you can subract the context of the surroundings from the characters: it is exactly why WH40K works: there is a continuity between the style of the surroundings and the power armor: both have a lot of extra adornment, in many instances clearly tacked on after manufacture.

I haven't played the game, so I have no idea if the overwrought, mind-bogglingly complex nature of War's armor fits in the context of the world he moves through.

Personally, I think this art style might have been a result of somebody saying "Hey, I have a great idea! Let's see how many polygons we can cram on the screen at the same time!!!"

When I first saw Darksiders, I actually thought that War was a dwarf...or at least very very short and squat. I thought it might have been because of the camera angle..but maybe it was actually the character design. His massive shoulders particularly made him seem more wide than tall.

Yahtzee, you seem to forget that War is not a man. He's a huge bear of a ...something (demigod?), and you can see his ultra muscled, dark skinned chest under his hooded cloak (and that claw thing is called a broach and helps hold the cloak on). The armour pieces themselves make total sense, except maybe the massive glove. However, I'm not sure what you would expect from the Horseman of the Apocalypse known as War... I can't imagine a one-man-army without armour... and it's thickness, well, that increases the toughness of the steel, ie: impact resistance. Also, to assume it's "too big" on any assumptions of how it would affect his agility is whack, considering that he's NOT HUMAN. He can pick up cars and thrown them across a football field... I really can't see that armour hindering him, plus it's not restricting joint movements. My only real issue is the massive left hand thing, as Yahtzee said, makes him have a mutant/huge left hand. Maybe that was the intention - he doesn't HAVE to be symmetrical - but it does seem wierd.

I just wish as much effort was put into his vocabulary and emotions.

You can compare him to Kratos, but it's not the same... War is meant to wage war all by his lonesome (and bring the apocalypse with his 3 other riders), Kratos is similar but not meant to wage an Apocalyptic war, he's more the embodiment of the ultimate killer. And he's actually a god so maybe his skin is as hard as iron. That's the great thing about fiction, you can make up reasons for everything. I think you're just trying to hard to make up bad reasons.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

For a man who got a bookdeal Yahtzee doesnt seem to be able to detract from a shallow aesthetic value, maybe he should look into it.

It's got nothign to do about what they use, but more how they look like. Besides, we used swords and armor for a nearly three thousand years if you look back to history.

And even so, the medieval settings in Lord of the Rings creates the suspension of disbelief quite well enough, so does the elves and dwarfs, and the magic and wizards. However, when you start wearing a freakin burlesque factory on your body you've gone from suspension of disbelief to just plain stupid.

Dont Fear The Reaper:
I was hoping he would trash Warhammer 40k and finally accomplish his task of alienating every fanbase in the world, but a good article nonetheless.

He still needs to alienate Valve fans as well.
OT: I'm not sure why anyone would want something that looks like that. Complexity isn't always a good thing. One of the reasons other characters have become memes is because they have simple designs with unique characteristics.

Lord_Gremlin:
Well, since War is not a human being, but a supernatural creature, like Demons and Angels, I don't see anything wrong here.
Perhaps he don't sweat. And don't have any metabolism at all...

Yes, he has a supernaturally bad taste in costumes.

I am glad that he pointed out the good character design of TF2, you don't have to have the best animation or art department to make a character look good.

Wolfram01:
Yahtzee, you seem to forget that War is not a man. He's a huge bear of a ...something (demigod?), and you can see his ultra muscled, dark skinned chest under his hooded cloak (and that claw thing is called a broach and helps hold the cloak on). The armour pieces themselves make total sense, except maybe the massive glove. However, I'm not sure what you would expect from the Horseman of the Apocalypse known as War... I can't imagine a one-man-army without armour... and it's thickness, well, that increases the toughness of the steel, ie: impact resistance. Also, to assume it's "too big" on any assumptions of how it would affect his agility is whack, considering that he's NOT HUMAN. He can pick up cars and thrown them across a football field... I really can't see that armour hindering him, plus it's not restricting joint movements. My only real issue is the massive left hand thing, as Yahtzee said, makes him have a mutant/huge left hand. Maybe that was the intention - he doesn't HAVE to be symmetrical - but it does seem wierd.

Well, they could at least have given him a proper colour-scheme. I mean, compare it to these guys:

image

Ridiculously over-the-top armour, but it coherently conveys that these guys are here to lay down the smack.
And btw..isn't that broach on the wrong side of his chest compared to the draping of his cloak?

(And yeah, WH40K again, because it's the easiest source for these kinds of pics.)

DoanDavid:

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

For a man who got a bookdeal Yahtzee doesnt seem to be able to detract from a shallow aesthetic value, maybe he should look into it.

It's got nothign to do about what they use, but more how they look like. Besides, we used swords and armor for a nearly three thousand years if you look back to history.

And even so, the medieval settings in Lord of the Rings creates the suspension of disbelief quite well enough, so does the elves and dwarfs, and the magic and wizards. However, when you start wearing a freakin burlesque factory on your body you've gone from suspension of disbelief to just plain stupid.

Not when it is in a setting where the only correlation with our world is gravity. You cannot claim what is stupid or unnecessary, because it is fantasy, and whatever you may think no longer applies. Also the claim that we used swords and armor for 3000 years is pretty stupid, because we had obvious changes of tactics and weaponry through each period, where LotR does not.

You seem to have a problem being able to think more deeply about what I said and just responded for whatever reason, it is not merely about "what they use", it is the fact that it doesnt matter what was or wasnt used, its the fact that there is no logical comparison between fantasy and reality.

War's over-sized arm is actually fake, hence the difference in size according to a wiki I found for the game. If you look at the design for Samael in Darksiders he ends up looking much better because he isn't covered in a bunch of stupid predictably skull laden crap. Even Bayonetta's design is better than War's and she has a comically misshapen head! If you were to put a more appropriately sized head on her body you would get something distinctive that actually looks nice. (I.E. exchange her with Jeanne.) I feel like 2010 is the year of the stupid looking action hero with Darksiders, Bayonetta(Though technically a 2009 game.), and especially Dante from God of- err Dante's Inferno all looking like they were designed by idiots. (The artist who did Bayonetta actually saved us from what would have been an even more idiotic design if Kamiya had got his way mind you.)

I agree with this extra punctuation but feel yatzee should have 1 or 2 more examples. 1 of mine would have been namcoxbandai's soul calibur 4. recently the character's costumes have looked massive and weird. feel free to google zasalamel people.

Mathak:

Wolfram01:
Yahtzee, you seem to forget that War is not a man. He's a huge bear of a ...something (demigod?), and you can see his ultra muscled, dark skinned chest under his hooded cloak (and that claw thing is called a broach and helps hold the cloak on). The armour pieces themselves make total sense, except maybe the massive glove. However, I'm not sure what you would expect from the Horseman of the Apocalypse known as War... I can't imagine a one-man-army without armour... and it's thickness, well, that increases the toughness of the steel, ie: impact resistance. Also, to assume it's "too big" on any assumptions of how it would affect his agility is whack, considering that he's NOT HUMAN. He can pick up cars and thrown them across a football field... I really can't see that armour hindering him, plus it's not restricting joint movements. My only real issue is the massive left hand thing, as Yahtzee said, makes him have a mutant/huge left hand. Maybe that was the intention - he doesn't HAVE to be symmetrical - but it does seem wierd.

Well, they could at least have given him a proper colour-scheme. I mean, compare it to these guys:

image

Ridiculously over-the-top armour, but it coherently conveys that these guys are here to lay down the smack.
And btw..isn't that broach on the wrong side of his chest compared to the draping of his cloak?

(And yeah, WH40K again, because it's the easiest source for these kinds of pics.)

Good post, I could actually get behind that being cool looking. It's big, but it doesn't seem filled with way too much crap.

I don't know. Honestly, I'd expect a supernatural manifestation of a single concept to look ridiculous and have exaggerated features. When you look at War, you know exactly who he is. Then again, I like Warhammer 40k.

I always thought War's design was intentionally made to be over the top, he's the all powerful WAR after all.

yet in the game he's a broken and mess of a man and it reflects in his design, that and he's WAR, do I have to do uppercase each time I say WAR?, yes I do.

Its War for goodness sake, since when was war aesthetically pleasing?.

I can't wait to see the sequels where Joe Mad draws up famine in good light, and by that I mean famine with Bob Gedolf's smug self satisfied face all over its robes.

And pestilence could get sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline.

Only an hour? I would've thought an outfit like that would take all morning to put on.

Jonesy911:
I like Cloud Strife's clothes from Final Fantasy 7 for the reason that they make sense. It's a SOLDIER uniform which indicates his past but it is also modified which shows he is no longer a member. His uniform is very recognizable due to it's purple colour and the make shift armour he wears shows how he doesn't have lots of money since he left soldier


His sword on the other hand...

Yeah well the Japanese have a thing for big swords. I find that much more acceptable then the American big gun fetish.

You joined Twitter? Even though you already said this... why?

Good Article. For me the look of War was so over the top silly that I wrote the game off as childish crap. Having read the review by John Funk I would consider getting it now if it came out for the PC but that is despite the stupid look of war and not because of it.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

Ummm, no. Fantasy does not give one a pass on practicality or rationality. That is just lazy.

No, i disagree. Much of my appreciation for Darksiders comes from War himself. It's an accurate portrayal of what a harbinger of the apocalypse would look like, and of all things i can envision him doing, i can't envision him getting up every morning. Or even sleeping for that matter.

Some things are meant to be over the top and ridiculous. They're better that way. The color scheme *is* a little off, i guess, but IT'S A GAME GODDAMNIT, I'LL TAKE MULTICOLORED RIDING HOODS OVER DARK-SHIT-BROWN ANY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK.

Whew. Bit of nerdrage there.

By the look of things, Joe Madureira has been taking "art" lessons from Rob Liefeld.

The thing that irritates me the most (and I haven't played the game yet) is that the left hand, being identical to right one, is too impractically big. If the artist in question was trying to go for the Hellboy-look, then he has failed with flying colors. Because not only is Hellboy's stone hand used to bash baddies, it's also the key to the end of days. Not something that just "looks cool."

But hey, what would I know? It's not like I'm an accomplished artist, or anything.

Jbird:

It's not like I'm an accomplished artist, or anything.

accomplished... lol

Sorry, I do actually agree with your point, however your drawings do not support your sarcastic comment

When I watched the review, I was just like "Ok, yeah. He's ugly. I get it."

Seeing that picture. I just. I don't know what to do with myself. Who could be proud of creating that?

It wouldn't be so bad if perhaps the origins of his outfit was explained, I doubt it's standard issue for the horsemen (because the horse would suffer under that weight!). And as someone above said, no doubt there will be a wiki entry presenting some insight into the character, but you shouldn't have to read a wiki to know that kind of stuff.

On that note though, when Madureira was designing him he probably heard "One of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" and instantly thought "This guy has to look as over the top and badass as possible". Seems they missed the point though and got carried away.

Another cracking article though, enjoyed reading the sizing up of Kratos based on his appearance. Considering he wears barely nothing, perhaps Madureira should have taken that into account.

ahpuch:
Good Article. For me the look of War was so over the top silly that I wrote the game off as childish crap. Having read the review by John Funk I would consider getting it now if it came out for the PC but that is despite the stupid look of war and not because of it.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

Ummm, no. Fantasy does not give one a pass on practicality or rationality. That is just lazy.

It obviously cant be something absolutely spurious that makes no sense in any reality, but you are just trying to be a smart ass by saying thats what Im claiming. What Im claiming is you cant claim to know how armor or weaponry functions in a fantasy world with magic and demons and bs.

As such your an imbecile for trying to base your dislike of it on practicality.

Ugh, I had no idea Joe Madureira was the concept artist for Darksiders.

He's the hack that took over for Hitch after Ultimates 1 and 2.

He's one of my all time least favourite artists...gawd explains so much.

You'd think if game companies wanted to hire a comic artist they'd hire someone, I dunno, established and actually considered good?

I want to see him analyze more characters now. What does the big ass drill on the Big Daddy's hand symbolize? Male ultraviolence to protect the weak little girls? Also a phallic symbol.

Seriously though I want to see more of that from Yahtzee. Its pretty good.

A lot of it reads like a transcript of that scene from Lawnmower Man where Jobe is hearing the thoughts of every shlub in the room and his face contorts with nosey anguish.

Ahh, The Lawnmower Man...

Am I only one that pretended Yahtzee was describing the ensemble choices at a video game fashion show?

ostro-whiskey:

ahpuch:
Good Article. For me the look of War was so over the top silly that I wrote the game off as childish crap. Having read the review by John Funk I would consider getting it now if it came out for the PC but that is despite the stupid look of war and not because of it.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

Ummm, no. Fantasy does not give one a pass on practicality or rationality. That is just lazy.

It obviously cant be something absolutely spurious that makes no sense in any reality, but you are just trying to be a smart ass by saying thats what Im claiming. What Im claiming is you cant claim to know how armor or weaponry functions in a fantasy world with magic and demons and bs.

As such your an imbecile for trying to base your dislike of it on practicality.

Don't use the word imbecile dear, it makes you sound like a cartoon scientist.

While suspension of disbelief can be used to explain away the supposed practicality of the armour, it can't wave away the fact that the armour isn't practical from a design stand-point. It's convoluted, hard to animate and render, indistinguishable from the common enemies when in a huddle, and is not overall aesthetically pleasing. At least, to me anyway.

OT: I agree.

The reason it's called "Twitter.com" is because "InterruptMe.com" wasn't available at the time.

MasterMayhem117:
When describing War the his right and his left etc gets confused.. Not to nitpick Yahtzee for fear of being judged and condemned.. Possibly by Yahtzee dressed as Kratos...

You are absolutely right. He does describe Wars 'right' shoulder twice, but I believe the first time he means leeeft.

ostro-whiskey:
Lol, I found this pretty amusing. It sounds like an attempt made by Yahtzee to try an justify his comments on design, but the fact that he tries to comment on the PRACTICALITY of a FANTASY character just makes him look stupid.

Fantasy requires a suspension of disbelief, does anyone ask why in Tolkiens Lord of the Rings world that in 3000 years people are still running around with medieval weaponry. The same goes with Warhammer 40k, and I suppose Darksiders.

For a man who got a bookdeal Yahtzee doesnt seem to be able to detract from a shallow aesthetic value, maybe he should look into it.

You're missing the point. In fantasy you do rely on suspension of disbelief, but that's created by symbolically linking the concepts of the fantasy world with concepts from our own. In the case of Warhammer 40k, for instance, the Space Marines continue to use swords because they're being associated with historical factions such as the Knights Templar. The point Yahtzee is making here is that the symbolic concepts (assuming they are intentional, and the guy didn't simply draw randomly) behind War's character design are too incoherent and varied to present a clear picture to the audience.
Fantasy isn't simply a license to do whatever you like and be justified in doing so. What you are thinking of is postmodernism ;)

Mathak:

Wolfram01:
Yahtzee, you seem to forget that War is not a man. He's a huge bear of a ...something (demigod?), and you can see his ultra muscled, dark skinned chest under his hooded cloak (and that claw thing is called a broach and helps hold the cloak on). The armour pieces themselves make total sense, except maybe the massive glove. However, I'm not sure what you would expect from the Horseman of the Apocalypse known as War... I can't imagine a one-man-army without armour... and it's thickness, well, that increases the toughness of the steel, ie: impact resistance. Also, to assume it's "too big" on any assumptions of how it would affect his agility is whack, considering that he's NOT HUMAN. He can pick up cars and thrown them across a football field... I really can't see that armour hindering him, plus it's not restricting joint movements. My only real issue is the massive left hand thing, as Yahtzee said, makes him have a mutant/huge left hand. Maybe that was the intention - he doesn't HAVE to be symmetrical - but it does seem wierd.

Well, they could at least have given him a proper colour-scheme. I mean, compare it to these guys:

image

Ridiculously over-the-top armour, but it coherently conveys that these guys are here to lay down the smack.
And btw..isn't that broach on the wrong side of his chest compared to the draping of his cloak?

(And yeah, WH40K again, because it's the easiest source for these kinds of pics.)

Hey, that marine to the left also has a oversized glove xP
But I belive it's a Power Fist, common use ripping the armor of tanks, so making it big and powerful is probably a good thing ^^

OT, maybe War's armor has some of the function the armor the Marines in WH40k wear, in other words, intimidate the enemy. I mean, he is WAR, puny humans should tremble when a Giant in skull/demon adorn armor appears before them.

I love how we all collectively write off comics as silly and strange, and yet pour hours of brainwork trying to shovel funny things like "logic" and "reason" into a god damned video game. I guess suspension of disbelief is not allowed in fairytale video games.

We've come a long way from imagining two dots and a line to be two people playing tennis to arguing about whether or not a polygon can physically lift another polygon. I mean, Darksiders doesn't promise historical accuracy or "realism" like, say the Call of Duty series or something...

Laughed when I saw the picture of War in the article (I'm not familar with the game). Very silly looking. Look how small his head is! And I even can appreciate Warhammer's penchant for excess.

Comparing character designs in static WH40K paintings to character design in a video game doesn't make a lot of sense, though. The video game character needs to fulfill purposes like being easy to pick out in a crowd of NPCs on screen. Not that this wasn't already in the article itself...

MasterMayhem117:
When describing War the his right and his left etc gets confused.. Not to nitpick Yahtzee for fear of being judged and condemned.. Possibly by Yahtzee dressed as Kratos...

He strikes me more as a Sniper...maybe it's the hat?

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