Valve Confirms DotA 2 for 2011

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Deeleted:
So... HoN and LoL has an engine crafted for the game itself, while Dota 2 will be using an allready existing engine that has been used for FPS games in the past.

Say what?!

If people can use an RTS-engine (a la Starcraft 2) to create a third-person shooter, I don't see why the reverse isn't just as applicable.

I always wanted to get in to DotA, but entering as a newbie is such a bad experience that after the first few times I tried I just gave up. With Valve behind this it'll hopefully have a much larger fanbase so I won't have to be the only newbie entering. Plus with the community tools that encourage helping new players I'll hopefully have a much more positive time.

This is bad, I hope that Valve doesn't claim the rioghts to this otherwise League of Legends will be shut down as well as Hero's of Newerth

100+ characters to balance? Good luck with that.

The market is also kind of flooded with these kinds of games. I think one of them also has a DotA developer. Although Valves way above average support for their games is going to help a lot.

Double post

Tom Phoenix:

Also, am I the only one who finds it funny how DotA 2 is avoiding the constraints of the WarCraft III engine by replacing them with the constraints of the Source engine? XD Although, on a more serious note, it remains to be seen whether or not the Source engine really is all that fitting for RTS-like games.

I've seen a number of RTS-styled games/mods running on the Source engine and they were exquisite. Or, in the very least, workable. The mods had very little to no actual modifications to the engine to make the RTS gameplay work. Hell, with just a few scripts running (of which I had written), I was able to turn Left 4 Dead into a pseudo-RTS game without modding the engine. You could move about in spectate mode, highlight/select survivors or infected, and point-and-click where you wanted them to go. I was working on getting them to pick up items and shoot at objects you clicked on, but I had a harddrive failure and lost all of my scripts.

While I'm not all that shocked at this official announcement, I am somewhat happy. Not because it's DotA, but because it's good to see Valve branching out to other genre's and ideas. As well as seeing them supporting the modding community once again. Something more developers need to embrace.

I didn't really care for DotA. I've tried it and it wasn't all that....great? But, I saw some potential in it. Sadly, I never saw any of that potential realized in any of the various version or spin-offs. (LoL & HoN) Perhaps Valve can remedy that.

I'll be interested to see if they can match the cunning business model and the innovations of League of Legends, which is like Dota or HoN TF2ized into a much more accesable, colorful, immediatly open game. As far as i'm concerned, LoL has been pioneering that field pretty brilliantly, I don't want to think about how much microtransaction money i've sunk on that game for new skins and champions since it's come out. Probably somewhere around 300. For an ostensibly "Free to Play game", that I would do that without complaint or remorse, is impressive to say the least.

What LoL lacks that DoTA 2 could capitalize on, is NEW MAPS. because LoL still only has two. Of course, thats twice as many as DoTA or HoN has.

"Further, DotA 2 adds integrated voice chat"...

Really? Did anyone noticed that DOTA has one of the worst online communities?

Note* I'm judging this from personnal experience.

Random Argument Man:
"Further, DotA 2 adds integrated voice chat"...

Really? Did anyone noticed that DOTA has one of the worst online communities?

Note* I'm judging this from personnal experience.

True, but integrated VoIP is a huge step, even if it's team locked. How I wish LoL had it, typing out MiA's too slow can be life or death.

Trademarking a fan made IP. Fucking douchebags. I do not even care if they do a good job with the game. The fact that they are now trying to take control and possess a fan made series is just the worst kind of douchebaggery behaviour and is something I would expect from Kotick.
If it is not released for absolute FREE and fans being able to do with the name as they please then Valve will be dead to me.

*clears my throat, stands on a soapbox (I have no educated opinion, actually... moar of a rantbox)* Fuck DotA 2. More like DotA: Source. All they have done is prettied up the original game and ensured that they could lose no money by changing nothing and sticking "Valve" on the box. Heroes of Newerth is doomed, since it is basically what Valve is already offering (but better). League will be fine since they've changed the god damn formula and have fans outside of the DotA community, but I'm still against Valve here. *gets off rantbox*

Grilled Cheesus:
Trademarking a fan made IP. Fucking douchebags. I do not even care if they do a good job with the game. The fact that they are now trying to take control and possess a fan made series is just the worst kind of douchebaggery behaviour and is something I would expect from Kotick.
If it is not released for absolute FREE and fans being able to do with the name as they please then Valve will be dead to me.

Um....what are you talking about? Did you even read the article? The guy that created the damn game is working at Valve. It's his project, his title, his IP. He pushed Valve into trade-marking the brand. They aren't trying to "take control". They hired the guy and gave him free choice of what project he wanted to do. He chose this.

Maybe get off your high horse and read up on the topic before you go bitching and cursing about it. Hmmm?

AstorSapolsky:
*clears my throat, stands on a soapbox (I have no educated opinion, actually... moar of a rantbox)* Fuck DotA 2. More like DotA: Source. All they have done is prettied up the original game and ensured that they could lose no money by changing nothing and sticking "Valve" on the box. Heroes of Newerth is doomed, since it is basically what Valve is already offering (but better). League will be fine since they've changed the god damn formula and have fans outside of the DotA community, but I'm still against Valve here. *gets off rantbox*

Likewise, where is this coming from? They've only just announced the game (and even listed a slew of features being added that none of the other spin-offs have) and you're immediately assuming it's just a straight port with touched up visuals.

Bitchy people gonna bitch.

I must say I was pessimistic about it being ep 3 but it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth none the less. Still I am a kinda excited to see what Valve has cooking in the pot, it just won't be as tasty as I hoped it be :(

Vigormortis:
Um....what are you talking about? Did you even read the article? The guy that created the damn game is working at Valve. It's his project, his title, his IP. He pushed Valve into trade-marking the brand. They aren't trying to "take control". They hired the guy and gave him free choice of what project he wanted to do. He chose this.

Maybe get off your high horse and read up on the topic before you go bitching and cursing about it. Hmmm?

And if you knew anything about the subject you would know that Icefrog was not the creator. It was already up and running from several other people. He simply took over a version of it and refined it a little.
But it is still a fan made product of which he is only a small part so therefore he does not have the authourity to sell it.

Hows the view from your very own high horse?

Tom Phoenix:
You know, for the longest time, Valve and Blizzard have had a sort of peaceful co-existance between one another. Valve did it's own thing with FPS games and digital distribution while Blizzard did it's own thing with RTS and MMO games.

With this move, however, Valve has effectively entered Blizzard's territory. It will be interesting to see if Blizzard will provide any sort of response.

Also, am I the only one who finds it funny how DotA 2 is avoiding the constraints of the WarCraft III engine by replacing them with the constraints of the Source engine? XD Although, on a more serious note, it remains to be seen whether or not the Source engine really is all that fitting for RTS-like games.

The source engine did Alien Swarm well, fantastically, in fact. I'm sure they'll pull it off.

I think it is too late in the game for dota2... The niche has been filled by Hon and LoL... already not many people are playing that sc2 version...

Caliostro:

Tom Goldman:
retain "functional aspects to the art that are pretty significant to the players," Valve's DotA 2 project lead told Game Informer. The aim is to make every hero's visual style and animations unique enough to they can be identified immediately.

A design choice which will undoubtedly work fantastically

UNTIL YOU RUIN IT 2 AND A HALF YEARS LATER WITH ALL SORTS OF POINTLESS JUNK AND MEANINGLESS SHITTY VISUAL "COSMETICS" CONTRARY TO YOUR ENTIRE GAME DESIGN PHILOSOPHY JUST FOR THE SAKE OF ADDING SHIT. LIKE, SAY, HATS.

...Yeah, I still love Valve, but I just wish they'd stop ruining one of my favorite games for absolutely no reason but to appeal to the mouth-breathing crowd...

Yes because adding cosmetic items really breaks the game.

OT: I'm looking forward to this, I loved playing the original DOTA, and it should beintersting to see what valve do with it on their first outing to RTS territory.

Grilled Cheesus:
Trademarking a fan made IP. Fucking douchebags. I do not even care if they do a good job with the game. The fact that they are now trying to take control and possess a fan made series is just the worst kind of douchebaggery behaviour and is something I would expect from Kotick.
If it is not released for absolute FREE and fans being able to do with the name as they please then Valve will be dead to me.

You do know Icefrog is the guy who owns DOTA right? So what we have here, is Icefrog (the guy who owns DOTA) is making a suped up sequal to an IP he owns, damn him! It was Icefrogs idea to copyright it, so I'd quell your misinformed rage because it makes you look like a complete tool.

I find this split in the valve fanbase a little odd between the people who like the idea of Valve putting out a DoTA game and the people who only believe that the only thing Valve should do is Ep. 3

Why cant people just be happy that Valve is taking a game that I personally enjoy and making it awesome and it will be awesome since Valve is made of win.

[iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="960" height="750" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0OzWIFX8M-Y" frameborder="0"][/iframe]

Grilled Cheesus:

Vigormortis:
Um....what are you talking about? Did you even read the article? The guy that created the damn game is working at Valve. It's his project, his title, his IP. He pushed Valve into trade-marking the brand. They aren't trying to "take control". They hired the guy and gave him free choice of what project he wanted to do. He chose this.

Maybe get off your high horse and read up on the topic before you go bitching and cursing about it. Hmmm?

And if you knew anything about the subject you would know that Icefrog was not the creator. It was already up and running from several other people. He simply took over a version of it and refined it a little.
But it is still a fan made product of which he is only a small part so therefore he does not have the authourity to sell it.

Hows the view from your very own high horse?

Okay. I did mistype in saying 'created'. He didn't start the DotA franchise, but he essentially took over and now effectively owns it where the original creator left off. (after he joined Riot to make LoL, which is NOT related to DotA. you could make the arguement that it's a rip-off or copy, but not a sequel or spin-off) However, once again, you bitch with little merit. "Refined it a little"? Bullshit. I was never big into DotA and even I saw the drastic changes that came in AllStars after IceFrog took over.

And, yes, seeing as the owners basically handed the franchise to him, IceFrog has the "authority" to sell and trademark the franchise. Otherwise, the trademark Valve applied for never would have been granted. Besides, I haven't heard anything about the LoL or HoN teams going all up-in-arms about this announcement. Seems to me if it was still their franchise, they'd have something to say. Hmmm....

By the way...the view is fan-friggin-tastic. ; )

Vigormortis:
Besides, I haven't heard anything about the LoL or HoN teams going all up-in-arms about this announcement. Seems to me if it was still their franchise, they'd have something to say. Hmmm....

By the way...the view is fan-friggin-tastic. ; )

Actually, S2 has agreed to stop porting dota heroes into hon after Valve got the dota trademark and sent infringement notifications to S2. Lol doesn't even factor into the equation because it's so far from dota in both gameplay and heroes/items

I'm suprised Valve actually went for DotA. It's really out of their confort zone, and there's a huge number of things to balance *looks at TF2 weapons*. Then again, they know how to balance pretty well I guess.

VALVE, IF YOU ARE LISTENING, HEAR THIS COMPLAINT.
I was into DotA, but I dropped out because there was far too much to learn in terms of items builds. League of Legends fixed this, but I left LoL anyways because 1) the "team making formula" while it was a good idea that was definitely better than nothing, I always felt that I went through periods of like, 10 games with teams that couldn't fail even if they were only allowed 5 items each, followed by 10 games of the worst team match ups ever.

And 2), almost all of the community started thinking they knew the game better than everyone else, which lead to people doing their own thing, which lead to arguements, which lead to MOAR ARGUEMENTS! I seriously cannot understand how all DotA games can attract such argumentaive attitudes, it's remarkable. Short of having admins sitting and watching each individual game, Valve have got one hell of a challenge in convincing me that this is going to be any different.

elvor0:
Yes because adding cosmetic items really breaks the game.

I agree with Caliostro, even though his emphasis was overdone. TF2 is dying for me. The original balance has been lost, and even now you need cosmetic items to complete a set and get the bonus.
I preferred the base vanilla game, or a few updates in when the balance was still good and the new weapons had tradeoffs with the originals and weren't just upgraded versions.

As for DotA2, I've never liked DotA and I'm dying here waiting for even the slightest bit of news about Ep3.

Its a good thing the source engine is capable of playing RTS style.
http://www.hl2wars.com/
I will just leave this here for the people that think the Source engine cant play RTSes. (or console players that dont get mods so they can be excused.)

elvor0:
Yes because adding cosmetic items really breaks the game.

It doesn't break, but it diminishes it considerably. It definitely harms the visual side. It's unnecessary trash/visual noise. Picture the Mona Lisa, or the Sistine Chapel, or pretty much every other work of priceless art in history. Now picture how much they could be "improved" by drawing cocks, or mustaches, or stick figures on them.

The "original" TF2 had very clearly defined characters, with different playstyles, filling different and defined roles. Now it's just... all muddled. Visually and gameplay wise. TF2 currently reminds me of that anecdote about the painter that set out to draw the most flawless and utterly perfect painting in history. He did a first painting. Everyone agreed that it was really good. But he wasn't happy, so he started retouching, painting over small details. Everyone agreed that it was really, absurdly, good. But not absolutely perfect. So he kept painting over. And over. And Over. Correcting small details, then big details, sometimes almost the entire picture. The original picture everyone loved eventually was all but lost to layers upon layers of corrections and adjustments. Eventually there were so many layers of paint on it that it just started to crack, break, or simply fall off due to the weight... The whole thing fell apart.

And that's the way TF2 is going. All "Vanilla" TF2 (the one straight out of the box in 2007) ever needed was bug fixes, a pyro update (or, specifically, the Flaregun, Axtinguisher and Airblast) and more maps/game modes, the original demo and soldier ammo-nerf, and that's it. Nothing else. Those "touch ups" were perfect. But that wasn't enough... One update for each class with an alternative set of weapons! Ok... Kind of unnecessary, and more than half the weapons from those updates are complete junk, but whatever... It's easy to pin point the downfall of TF2 though: Random drops. From this point on it was clear TF2 forgot what it was about. Then came hats, and "community" made items, and crafting, and now the mother of all failures, "unusual" hats with "silly special effects!! KAWAII ^________^!!!!".... augh. Paint is peeling off in buclets... I want the normal TF2 back please.

SteelStallion:
i'll stick to HoN until then

League of Legends is better AND free.

I love how the only part of the original DotA development team they have on board is Icefrog, the guy who did the least and worst part of the work. Well, Valve is slowly becoming the new Activision/EA, it seems.

Diablini:

SteelStallion:
i'll stick to HoN until then

League of Legends is better AND free.

Yeah, if you have no knowledge of Defence of the Ancients and you're playing for the first time, I agree, LoL is better. HoN is for the more experienced players who didn't just start playing.

Vigormortis:

AstorSapolsky:
*clears my throat, stands on a soapbox (I have no educated opinion, actually... moar of a rantbox)* Fuck DotA 2. More like DotA: Source. All they have done is prettied up the original game and ensured that they could lose no money by changing nothing and sticking "Valve" on the box. Heroes of Newerth is doomed, since it is basically what Valve is already offering (but better). League will be fine since they've changed the god damn formula and have fans outside of the DotA community, but I'm still against Valve here. *gets off rantbox*

Likewise, where is this coming from? They've only just announced the game (and even listed a slew of features being added that none of the other spin-offs have) and you're immediately assuming it's just a straight port with touched up visuals.

Bitchy people gonna bitch.

They didn't just announce it, I've been following this since Icefrog was hired. It's been obvious, and it's been a few months that they announced a DotA project. The fact it is DotA with a shiny new coat means nothing. Integrated voice chat, replays, those are extra features. I want to know what is different about the game mechanics. They are porting heroes, they are "the same map, items, skills, and upgrade paths." I do not like the map, items, skills, and upgrade paths. League of Legends and even Heroes of Newerth did a bit beyond porting every character and item. I want a unique map and characters, they have already promised nothing for me.

Elitist fanboys gonna call everyone out and pretend they aren't fanboys.

Diablini:

SteelStallion:
i'll stick to HoN until then

League of Legends is better AND free.

LoL is a mess. The matchmaker is bad, the balance is borked, they care more about pushing content than stabilizing the game, the game eats system resources for lunch, and their client is awful (adobe air ftl). And you don't even get all the heroes. To buy them all would cost well over $100. And then you still need runes to be competitive. In HoN you pay $30 for everything. It has better balance, better UI, voice chat, great replays that work with any version (unlike WC3, where you can't watch replays of older versions), and the heroes actually take skill, so while it's harder to learn, once you do it's way more fun. LoL is fun, yes, but it has too much baggage weighing it down, and HoN is way more polished.

In my experience the ones who bash HoN hardest are the ones who either never played it or suck at it.

imnotparanoid:
No episode 3 then, never even heard of DOTA until valve bought it or whatever.

Maybe you should stop living under a fucking rock and play a real game then.

Tom Phoenix:
You know, for the longest time, Valve and Blizzard have had a sort of peaceful co-existance between one another. Valve did it's own thing with FPS games and digital distribution while Blizzard did it's own thing with RTS and MMO games.

With this move, however, Valve has effectively entered Blizzard's territory. It will be interesting to see if Blizzard will provide any sort of response.

Also, am I the only one who finds it funny how DotA 2 is avoiding the constraints of the WarCraft III engine by replacing them with the constraints of the Source engine? XD Although, on a more serious note, it remains to be seen whether or not the Source engine really is all that fitting for RTS-like games.

I don't think valve is a threat to blizzard lol.

This should be fun. Still hoping they announce Episode 3 at least by the time of next years E3 though.

TsunamiWombat:

What LoL lacks that DoTA 2 could capitalize on, is NEW MAPS. because LoL still only has two. Of course, thats twice as many as DoTA or HoN has.

HoN has 3.
only 1 of them is played. Game depends so much on knowing details of the map.
Believe me you dont want to play on a map you dont know the juke spots, gank routes, ward locations etc...

tl;dr.

Does this mean Episode 3's the new DNF?

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