Controversial God of War: Ascension Trophy To Be Renamed

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And neo-feminism shows again why it's retarded and people shouldn't support it.

After reading some of these comments I've come to the conclusion that nobody on this thread has the right to pretend that they don't understand why women feel excluded from gaming and why gaming is viewed as adolescent, mindless piffle.

AdonistheDark:
I don't know who's worse: the privileged white fucks aghast that words have consequences and they should own the stupid shit they say rather than hiding behind ironic detachment or the privileged white fucks who have nothing better to do than be offended on behalf of all minorities.

People in glass houses.

AdonistheDark:
That said, Sessler is being kind of a faggot here.

Shouldn't cast stones.

I wonder if people would be this outraged if the trophy was called "chicks before dicks" and featured Kratos ripping of a mans balls with you receiving the achievement for doing this?

I mean both makes generalization's about an entire gender [all women are hoe's-all men are dicks] and would come about due to causing bodily harm to said gender.

[ok really the trophy comes up because your "bro" rescues you from the "hoes" the women you beat up is really a demon and ends up completely fine but since most people are ignoring this well just pretended they are right].

So would people be this out raged or would it be ok because the man is "tougher" or perhaps because "women have suffered in the past to all negative treatment of males is justified" or maybe "the man deserved it more".

Personally I feel if my proposed circumstance not a single person would bat an eyelid *sigh* I hate double standards.....but maybe I'm wrong share your thoughts ^_^

Kalezian:

Brad Shepard:

DVS BSTrD:
Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

ITS A GAME, Get over it. Its in context to the game plus all this gender differentiation is tearing people apart, if you want everyone to be equal, you have to represent everyone as equal, that means getting to kill female AND male characters in games, among other things.

Im starting to get real fucking tired of hearing "IN CONTEXT".

reading through most of the youtube comments that was the argument for 90% of them.

want to know what it means?

parts of a piece of text (such as paragraphs) that precede and follow a certain detail.

so, IN FUCKING CONTEXT you are beating women down and getting an achievement for it.

now before someone goes off and lables people as white knight's and questioning people's sexuality, Im all for gender equality.

I have no problem moving down both men and women in games I play. I dont really play fighting games, but when I did a long time ago, I had no problem pulling Sonya Blades spine out besides my fingers slipping from the controller.

but lets change the situation real quick, what if the achievement was for beating up gay characters?

black characters?

children even?

would you be so willing to defend it then?

rant provided by the association for the proper use of 'IN CONTEXT' and the removal of the improperly use of 'irony'.

An excellent point and somewhat eye-opening for me. My initial reaction to this story was to just... shrug. But you're right, if the achievement was for beating up a gay and had a name like "Gay Basher" then there'd be a massive (and righteous) backlash.

cursedseishi:

jcfrommars9:

Kalezian:

so, IN FUCKING CONTEXT you are beating women down and getting an achievement for it.

No, you're not. In fact, when you do beat the Furies, the achievement you gets is "Bond Broken". "Bros before Hos" is a trophy given because Orkos betrays the Furies to help Kratos defeat them. Sessler got his facts wrong and then it snowballed to the point where Santa Monica decided to change the title.

I'd say don't even bother. The point has been brought up multiple times in the thread, but fact of the matter is people are completely willing to disregard or outright throw away common sense and logical thinking in order to just push and push their own thoughts.
Some people noticed when you actually got the achievement, the context of the achievement, and thus understood its meaning.
Others don't give a Harpy's flea-covered ass about the context of the achievement, and just want to jump on the PC bandwagon to insult and belittle others for not agreeing with them.

Some have noticed, and still find its context and placement tasteless and unfunny, and with some unfortunate implications.

Its very much a 'seriously, dude? not funny, way to ruin the moment.' kind of thing.

Some have mentioned the Ho slang word as 'just referring to women in general', and defending it like that... except, by 'referring to women in general', you are saying its ok to use a slang word that is designed as a shortened insult against sex workers as way to talk about women. Much as the way some teen boys don't seem to get why women get upset when you think its ok to just use 'bitch' instead of she, her or woman.

From what I heard, the entire GOW series past the first one has been nothing but mindless "SMASH KILL SEX SCOWL RAAAAAAARGH". Took them long enough to catch on.

Paradoxrifts:

AdonistheDark:
I don't know who's worse: the privileged white fucks aghast that words have consequences and they should own the stupid shit they say rather than hiding behind ironic detachment or the privileged white fucks who have nothing better to do than be offended on behalf of all minorities.

People in glass houses.

AdonistheDark:
That said, Sessler is being kind of a faggot here.

Shouldn't cast stones.

I'm not hiding behind the 'it's a joke' shield and stand by what I said. How am I being hypocritical?

Or do you just whip out trite biblical allusions in the wrong circumstance for the hell of it?

It's God of War. How do you take that game serious enough to be shocked by something like this?

Windknight:

cursedseishi:

jcfrommars9:

No, you're not. In fact, when you do beat the Furies, the achievement you gets is "Bond Broken". "Bros before Hos" is a trophy given because Orkos betrays the Furies to help Kratos defeat them. Sessler got his facts wrong and then it snowballed to the point where Santa Monica decided to change the title.

I'd say don't even bother. The point has been brought up multiple times in the thread, but fact of the matter is people are completely willing to disregard or outright throw away common sense and logical thinking in order to just push and push their own thoughts.
Some people noticed when you actually got the achievement, the context of the achievement, and thus understood its meaning.
Others don't give a Harpy's flea-covered ass about the context of the achievement, and just want to jump on the PC bandwagon to insult and belittle others for not agreeing with them.

Some have noticed, and still find its context and placement tasteless and unfunny, and with some unfortunate implications.

Its very much a 'seriously, dude? not funny, way to ruin the moment.' kind of thing.

Some have mentioned the Ho slang word as 'just referring to women in general', and defending it like that... except, by 'referring to women in general', you are saying its ok to use a slang word that is designed as a shortened insult against sex workers as way to talk about women. Much as the way some teen boys don't seem to get why women get upset when you think its ok to just use 'bitch' instead of she, her or woman.

I don't mind if people find the trophy name tasteless. At least those people do for the correct reasons. What I mind is people incorrectly believing that the trophy achievement had anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto. This tells me that they didn't bother to check the facts for themselves nor did they care to. They just went off what someone else said (Sessler). I can't take them or their outrage seriously if like Sessler they can't even bother to get their facts right. That's just irresponsible. Bros before Hos is obviously a play on words for Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos and nothing more.

God of War isn't misogynistic, Kratos kills both men and women without mercy.

If anything it is the definition of gender equality.

jcfrommars9:

I don't mind if people find the trophy name tasteless. At least those people do for the correct reasons. What I mind is people incorrectly believing that the trophy achievement had anything to do with Kratos beating up Alecto. This tells me that they didn't bother to check the facts for themselves nor did they care to. They just went off what someone else said (Sessler). I can't take them or their outrage seriously if like Sessler they can't even bother to get their facts right. That's just irresponsible. Bros before Hos is obviously a play on words for Orkos betraying the Furies to help Kratos and nothing more.

Actually, Sesslers reveiw is specifically talking about the fight, and he states that in context the fight itself and the cutscenes fit within the games framework and what we klnow of Kratos, and its only whn the trophy popped 'after the cutscene' that he took offense. And yes, that is what it is referring it too, but it essentially reduces a man choosing to aid someone against their evil mother to frat boy humour, which coupled to the prior beating of said mother sets the wrong tone.

Also, there's a lot of people running in and raging 'BUT ITS OK TO BEAT UP MEN! DOUBLE STANDARDS! DOUBLE STANDARDS!', so its not just people complaining about the trophy who are not making sure they know what their talking about.

Well, this is amusing. This also has to be one of the least violent encounters with Kratos I've ever seen as well, I think the highly destructive god of war went easy on her. The achievement also happens after the guy saves Kratos, which suggests that the achievement is actually for the actions of Orkos after the 'savage beating' the not-so-lady recieved.

I think Kratos should show his stance on equality and give a real female in his god of war lore a Zeus level beating worthy of legend. Any less would only suggest that Kratos thinks women are inferior to his male opponents.

Doesn't it feel good to love your fellow man, you guys?

image

...

Guys...?

OT: I don't think I could say anything meaningful regarding this matter that won't add fuel to this already preposterously large fire.

rbstewart7263:

perhaps its still them being spineless by choice over nothing.

And perhaps they actually saw the error of their ways. Let us continue to speculate on their motives to prove a point.

debigcheez:
God of War isn't misogynistic, Kratos kills both men and women without mercy.

If anything it is the definition of gender equality.

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

Zachary Amaranth:

Shadowstar38:
Some people need to grow up.

When you're making a bigger stink than the people who caused the change, the "grow up" argument loses a lot of its bite.

It was a stupid title. It's a stupid change. There', equality. Let's move on.

How exactly is a quick opinion drop on a semi-related forum a "bigger-stink" than anything that would cause a dev to change their content? It's not... is the obvious answer. I do get that-that doesn't help you to be rudely dismissive of people or aid you in feeling superior...

I agree with the idea that this is an inconsequential change to the game. I also agree with the sentiment that they shouldn't have buckled, especially given that the nature of the complaint seems to be based on a mis-interpretation of the scene.

I'm still offended by the title of this achievement. I have never been in a frat and am nobody's "bro". Bros before foes is derogitory to males and catagorizes us as mindless binge drinkers chasing loose women while wearing backwards truckers caps, brightly colored tank tops, and board shorts. I don't think the devs have fixed anything, but only made it worse by assuming being a "bro" is socially acceptable. Yep, this arguement is that stupid.

Windknight:
Actually, Sesslers reveiw is specifically talking about the fight, and he states that in context the fight itself and the cutscenes fit within the games framework and what we klnow of Kratos, and its only whn the trophy popped 'after the cutscene' that he took offense. And yes, that is what it is referring it too, but it essentially reduces a man choosing to aid someone against their evil mother to frat boy humour, which coupled to the prior beating of said mother sets the wrong tone.

The reason I don't agree because it's clear that the impression far too many people got was that the trophy immediately followed and/or was only in regards to Kratos beating up Alecto. To the point that it needed to be explained in the first place. That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.

Also, there's a lot of people running in and raging 'BUT ITS OK TO BEAT UP MEN! DOUBLE STANDARDS! DOUBLE STANDARDS!', so its not just people complaining about the trophy who are not making sure they know what their talking about.

True, but I never said otherwise.

CaptainKarma:

rbstewart7263:

perhaps its still them being spineless by choice over nothing.

And perhaps they actually saw the error of their ways. Let us continue to speculate on their motives to prove a point.

debigcheez:
God of War isn't misogynistic, Kratos kills both men and women without mercy.

If anything it is the definition of gender equality.

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

It's just a general fratboy term that doesn't harm a soul. I don't see why people get so up in arms about shit like this when they could be focusing on real misogyny.

For a " shockingly violent scene even by God of War standards" i was rather disappointed once i went to see the actual scene in question. It was one of the tamest god of war scenes yet xD The Fury in question walks it off too.

Otherwise can fully understand why the name needed to be changed. Bros before foes is better in every regard aswell.

debigcheez:

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

It's just a general fratboy term that doesn't harm a soul. I don't see why people get so up in arms about shit like this when they could be focusing on real misogyny.[/quote]

WHo is "so up in arms" about it? This seems the tiniest controversy ever. Reviewer calls them out, they change it, the Escapist reports the change, and I procrastinate at work arguing why they were right to change it.

How is that an overreaction? It's barely a reaction.

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Yeah, I was wondering why people would consider this to be so out-of-place. Did they forget that fountain scene near the beginning of God of War II? This is even more stupid than if Splinter Cell: Blacklist had a trophy or achievement that made a pun about knocking people unconscious. Like... where were you during everything, reviewer!?

CaptainKarma:

debigcheez:

Which is perhaps why the issue isn't him killing her (which is staying in the game) and more in the achievement name (which has been changed)

It's just a general fratboy term that doesn't harm a soul. I don't see why people get so up in arms about shit like this when they could be focusing on real misogyny.

WHo is "so up in arms" about it? This seems the tiniest controversy ever. Reviewer calls them out, they change it, the Escapist reports the change, and I procrastinate at work arguing why they were right to change it.

How is that an overreaction? It's barely a reaction.[/quote] You seem to forget that this thread has over 100 replies.

TecnoMonkey:

DVS BSTrD:

Brad Shepard:
People need to learn to take a damn joke.

Sorry I don't find beating a woman funny.

The title of the trophy had NOTHING to do with Kratos beating up that "woman", who actually is not a woman she is more of a demon with some female features, it had to do with the son of one of the "female" antagonists saving Kratos against her mothers wishes, the beating itself isn't even that violent by Kratos's standards, see for yourself.

Don't forget that they've previously already "pulled back" from showing violence against women, there are apparently no female cannon-fodder enemies anymore: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-20-god-of-war-ascension-dev-pulled-back-from-including-violence-against-women
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/358991/no-violence-against-women-in-god-of-war-ascension-says-dev/

Truly this is all a sign of reaching the fabled complete equality soon and not just another form of annoying censorship due to a butthurt group of people that likely to a large part don't even play the respective games and aren't part of their consumer base.

jcfrommars9:

That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.
True, but I never said otherwise.

His criticism was entirely of the trophy title. If you watch the video, he was uncomfortable with the beating itself, but acknowledged it fit the game and the character. Kratos is vicious, nasty, brutish, the 'victim' is evil and monstrous and just as capable of nastiness herself. The trophy title adds an uncomfortable context to the beating there otherwise would not have been.

break the phrase down, it ultimately means 'treat males as your soul brothers. treat females as ephemeral things you use for sex.' The alteration takes the uncomfortable connotations away, and honestly makes the line funnier.

What a shame that Sony Santa Monica felt compelled to pander to a vocal minority of over-senstive politically correct sissies.

Windknight:

jcfrommars9:

That tells me that ultimately, Sessler spoke without proper context. Perhaps because of the embargo but that is irresponsible. Plus Sessler's criticism implies that Kratos' reasons for beating up Alecto was because she was a woman not because she was evil and just as brutal and powerful as he is. As Kratos and players quickly find out, she cannot be defeated so easily.
True, but I never said otherwise.

His criticism was entirely of the trophy title. If you watch the video, he was uncomfortable with the beating itself, but acknowledged it fit the game and the character. Kratos is vicious, nasty, brutish, the 'victim' is evil and monstrous and just as capable of nastiness herself. The trophy title adds an uncomfortable context to the beating there otherwise would not have been.

break the phrase down, it ultimately means 'treat males as your soul brothers. treat females as ephemeral things you use for sex.' The alteration takes the uncomfortable connotations away, and honestly makes the line funnier.

The trophy title had nothing to do with the context of the beating nor could it have by any stretch of the imagination be confused as otherwise. Sessler made that incorrect leap all on his own. Worse, he did it without giving all of the context and facts which sent others in a frenzy believing that the title directly followed or was about Kratos beating a woman to death when it was neither. The phrase "Bros before Hos" has more than one meaning. Some deliberately derogatory, some a figure speech, certainly not always meaning that women in general are objects only to be used for sex. In this case, it was regarding Orkos betrayal of the Furies to Kratos. I'm not concerned about the alteration. If you're happy with it, that's fine. I'm concerned because of how badly Sessler misinterpreted the scene. How it was acceptable that Sessler didn't need to regard context or facts, just as long as he implied that it was sexist or misogynistic, then it's alright which it again, it wasn't.

I had a quite a laugh when I read this post on Destructoid:

I like it too because now it equates Hoes and Foes

and women are the enemy.

It would've been more appropriate if the God of War franchise had a different track record. This is typical GoW stuff that's why it was put in the game in the first place.
The GoW experience "soured" by something that is typically GoW. Something about the game industry, pandering and drawing lines between blood, gore and sex-filled games. Something, too lazy to go back and see.

Captcha: hunky-dory, if only.

Good job, feminists. You've finally managed to censor a video game.

I hope you realise that this will not further your cause in any way and will bring nothing but more vitriol and ire from the misogynists.

EDIT: Obligatory Stephen Fry quote:

jcfrommars9:
The phrase "Bros before Hos" has more than one meaning. Some deliberately derogatory, some a figure speech, certainly not always meaning that women in general are objects only to be used for sex. In this case, it was regarding Orkos betrayal of the Furies to Kratos. I'm not concerned about the alteration. If you're happy with it, that's fine. I'm concerned because of how badly Sessler misinterpreted the scene. How it was acceptable that Sessler didn't need to regard context or facts, just as long as he implied that it was sexist or misogynistic, then it's alright which it again, it wasn't.

Except, he didn't misinterpret it. He got the context and facts right. Watch the segment of the video where he talks about it. the cutscene happens right after the fight, the trophy pops. it sums up the moment not as you defeated an evil monster, and her son chooses to aid you because he believes in your cause, but you pimp slapped that ho and your bro was ok wid dat.

And again, the phrase reduces males to your brother, family, and females to a ho, sex. Use the phrase in front of your mother, your sister or women in general, and see how they react to it.

Brad Shepard:
They should not have to change a stupid joke because of butthurt people

But they did. End of story. Now, move along.

Shadowstar38:

Time and energy is being wasted to avoid people who can't take a joke from getting upset. I don't want companies folding every time someone kicks up a fuss.

Time and energy you're now also wasting on something that's already done.

Ultimately, it was their choice.

Dahemo:

What's so awful about being PC?

The fact that it's been predominantly a bogeyman term since its use in non-Russian culture. "Political Correctness" in america is about as apt as calling Obama a Nazi. If either were true, you wouldn't be free to say them.

Still, I take your point. I see no downside in the doctrine of "don't be a dick." Some people evidently got upset in a shitstorm I missed entirely. The company calmly and maturely changed something trivial to rectify things. A bigger shitstorm is kicked up by people who dislike whining but will whine about whiners. It puzzles me.

This is a complete outrage.

I mean, they made a prequel to God of War for cryin' out loud!

What, was there some great gaping loose end that was left untied after God of War 3? Did they really needed to push things further back? What great mystery in the straightforward story of Kratos was left unanswered?

It's like the developers are all completely out of ide-

Oh... that's not what we're talking about here, is it? Well shit.

Against stupidity even the gods contend in vain.

Seems a godslayer isn't up for the challenge either. The scourge of offended calls for censorship absent thought of context marches on.

Krantos:
Honestly, in this instance I thin-

*looks at previous comments*

Whelp, that escalated quickly.

image

Seriously, you really can't talk about sexism issues here can you?

Take me with you! Take me with you!

image

Yeah, I stopped reading when I read a comment on the first page where one person was getting offended that another person was offended that another person was offended.

You people are ridiculous. Good day.

Windknight:

jcfrommars9:
The phrase "Bros before Hos" has more than one meaning. Some deliberately derogatory, some a figure speech, certainly not always meaning that women in general are objects only to be used for sex. In this case, it was regarding Orkos betrayal of the Furies to Kratos. I'm not concerned about the alteration. If you're happy with it, that's fine. I'm concerned because of how badly Sessler misinterpreted the scene. How it was acceptable that Sessler didn't need to regard context or facts, just as long as he implied that it was sexist or misogynistic, then it's alright which it again, it wasn't.

Except, he didn't misinterpret it. He got the context and facts right. Watch the segment of the video where he talks about it. the cutscene happens right after the fight, the trophy pops. it sums up the moment not as you defeated an evil monster, and her son chooses to aid you because he believes in your cause, but you pimp slapped that ho and your bro was ok wid dat.

And again, the phrase reduces males to your brother, family, and females to a ho, sex. Use the phrase in front of your mother, your sister or women in general, and see how they react to it.

Sessler didn't get the context or the facts right. The cutscene is Orkos saving Kratos from the Furies and revealing his betrayal to them for the first time which Sessler didn't give context or description to at all. Orkos believes in Kratos' cause not because he beat up Alecto. In fact, it was only an illusion that Alecto laughed at Kratos for. There was a reason why Orkos had to save Kratos from the Furies, not the other way around. He decided to help him because he knew that the Furies helped Ares trick Kratos into killing his own wife and daughter. He didn't think it was right that they would capture and torture him mentally and physically for all eternity because he refused to serve Ares ever again. He also knew that they planned to use Kratos to help them overthrow Olympus. Orkos was told of this by an Oracle who was his girlfriend. When he tried warning Zeus, the Furies under Ares' request, captured him and blinded his girlfriend, made her prisoner in her own temple so Zeus would never find out. The phrase can reduce males to your brother, family, and females to a ho, sex. But that's not it's only interpretation. And I have used the term before with women but I've known women to do so as well. The same goes chicks before dicks. It's the context that tells me how it's meant to be offensive or just a figure of speech.

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