League of Legends Developer Shows How Raging Loses Games

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There's absolutely no doubt in my mind greater group cohesion leads to greater success. You're more willing to watch each other's backs, and you're more willing to adjust your strategies together in order to succeed. When you've decided you don't like somebody in your group, you're more likely to play your way rather than playing as a group.

I'm noticing this in Final Fantasy XIV. I haven't played an MMO in a while, but I remember in FFXI a LOT of teamwork and pre-planning was required to get anything accomplished, so you rarely went into a fight without a good idea of what you were doing. But with FFXIV, there is a system that automatically pairs you with people, and you're basically thrown in at a moment's notice. It is possible to strategize, but a lot of time if nobody is willing to take the helm that doesn't happen, so a lot of times someone will be doing something wrong. Sometimes what others say is nice, sometimes it isn't so nice. And in my experience, things go more smoothly if the advice and strategizing is nicer because they're more willing to work as one and do even more to make sure things go off without a hitch.

Plus, a lot of time what you really need is good leadership, and the person who's bitching and moaning is not going to be taken seriously or followed as a leader by everyone else.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Probably because a few are just dumb and the rest simply don't care. Yeah, breaking news: some people don't value their DOTA 2 winrate that highly, they get more pleasure from flaming someone who fucked up than they do from spelling it out for them kindly and losing anyway half the time.

Then those people need that spelled out. I don't care about my winrate but I don't want to play with assholes who ruin my enjoyment of a game. Someone had a bad day? I don't give a fuck, get that out of your system somewhere else. They get pleasure from flaming? Then they should just be banned.

No you didn't, you caught up by playing better. You don't win games by just being nice, that's not how DOTA2 works, or League for that matter.

You vastly underestimate the psychological effect of intern flaming in a team. In the end both parties are annoyed and start playing even worse, one because he spends more time flaming and watching the mistakes of others than look after his own shit, the other because he gets annoyed and tries to prove some shit and making even more dumb mistakes. Toxic players affect your performance and in the end are cause for more bad games than anything else.

And yes, I win games in DOTA2 by being nice. I don't flame. I always try to keep up the morale and I win because the guy who fucked up at the start doesn't get annoyed but accepts my criticism and improves. So do I.

Please tell me what is accomplished by being an ass?

This same concept is the reason I fell in love with Left 4 Dead. Especially in Versus mode, teamwork is the most valuable skill a player can have.

It's too bad more games don't emphasize teamwork like this. With any luck, encouraging good attitudes and letting them so directly affect gameplay could even carry a person's style over to non-team games and make voice chat across all games and services that much more pleasant.

P.S. Thanks

TheKasp:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
[quote]No you didn't, you caught up by playing better. You don't win games by just being nice, that's not how DOTA2 works, or League for that matter.

You vastly underestimate the psychological effect of intern flaming in a team. In the end both parties are annoyed and start playing even worse, one because he spends more time flaming and watching the mistakes of others than look after his own shit, the other because he gets annoyed and tries to prove some shit and making even more dumb mistakes. Toxic players affect your performance and in the end are cause for more bad games than anything else.

If they were down 16k gold, then they won, because the other team made mistakes afterwards (and they didn't)... being nice doesn't win games, but it definetly helps. You don't want to help someone, whose description of you could fill a diggestive system...

I honestly think it's more that losing players rage, not that raging players lose. Everybody gets frustrated when they pour an hour into a game and lose because one person is terrible or somebody else disconnected. Sure, there are people who rage, and that does put pressure on a person, but I just think that winning teams have less reason for aggression, and that's the real reason.

Keeping a cool head and working together as a team in multiplayer objective focused games is essential in all games that do it, not just LoL.

probably_insane:
If they were down 16k gold, then they won, because the other team made mistakes afterwards (and they didn't)... being nice doesn't win games, but it definetly helps. You don't want to help someone, whose description of you could fill a diggestive system...

Yes, they made mistakes (no "dove our t4" kind of mistakes, small ones that my team managed to abuse). And because my guys tried to make less mistakes instead of flaming each other we could build upon that and get the lead. There was harsh critcism from everyone to everyone in the team but it was constructive and since there were no insults everyone was more accepting of it. From what I've seen: As soon as someone starts to flame you can forget all hope to a comeback because you are at best playing 4vs5 with one wasting his time flaming instead of actually playing.

TheKasp:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Probably because a few are just dumb and the rest simply don't care. Yeah, breaking news: some people don't value their DOTA 2 winrate that highly, they get more pleasure from flaming someone who fucked up than they do from spelling it out for them kindly and losing anyway half the time.

Then those people need that spelled out.

Again, they don't, because they do not care if flaming harms their winrate or not. If you show them the video in the OP they would probably laugh and call you a cyka. Whether they should be banned or not is another subject.

TheKasp:
You vastly underestimate the psychological effect of intern flaming in a team. In the end both parties are annoyed and start playing even worse, one because he spends more time flaming and watching the mistakes of others than look after his own shit, the other because he gets annoyed and tries to prove some shit and making even more dumb mistakes. Toxic players affect your performance and in the end are cause for more bad games than anything else.

And yes, I win games in DOTA2 by being nice. I don't flame. I always try to keep up the morale and I win because the guy who fucked up at the start doesn't get annoyed but accepts my criticism and improves. So do I.

Speak for yourself, the group of people I play with and I myself are more than capable of being pissed off at someone (sometimes even letting them know that) while not letting it effect our playstyles. I think we're not unique in that regard - sure you have a lot of emotional people in the DOTA community, but do you really think most of them go rage so hard they can hardly play anymore Versuta style?

TheKasp:
Please tell me what is accomplished by being an ass?

Nice strawman.

shadowmagus:
Only in League of Legends would something this obvious need to be spelled out in a two-minute video.

Yup, and the sad thing is, any rager who watched this video is probably thinking: "ya, why do so many of my idiot teammates always do this. I am so good, but everyone I play with is so bad."

Yeah I really don't think this is going to make the brunt of the angsty meltdown LoL crowd find the idea that being nice and winning 1.7 more games is more appealing than shouting at people like Mel Gibson on a drunken hate fueled bender.

I've actually stopped playing normal games. My entire recent matches listing are all bot games due to the simple matter that I just have more fun there.

It's not always a toxicity thing, either. Getting completely stomped game after game is insane demoralizing and when I don't have fun with a game; I don't play.

DalekJaas:
Should try playing the Oceania server, normally Australians are very good at online games but in LoL its not stop rage and some people actually call for surrender votes. Also the standard of play is much worse than NA, which probably explains the constant rage.

Its interesting you should mention that. There was apparently quite a bit of bad sportsmanship at the Riot booth during PAX AU. They had live games and shoutcasting and allegedly some of the players were quite toxic towards each other.

Its one of the reasons why I dont play that much anymore. It is a shame since I enjoy LoL a lot but I play purely for fun and dont want the hassle of putting up with childish behaviour and trolling.

EDIT: I wanted to add this video.

Don't forget, correlation does not mean causation. It could be that losing causes more raging, not raging causes more losses. Obviously teams that are losing with have more losses, and when a team is losing players are more prone to raging. I am not stating raging is a good thing, just that use of these stats is pretty flawed.

To further my point, in Dota 2 the team that buys mekansm first wins over 60% of the time (it's one of the items both teams almost always buys). Does that mean you should rush mek as fast as possible foregoing things like regen? No. Teams that get mek first tend to be winning the early game, and that is the true causation for the high win rate. So sure, there is a correlation between mek and higher win rates, but mek is not the true cause.

Karloff:

Sportsmanlike players win 1.7 more games than the rest, says Riot, and if you happen to be one of those that leaps on the slightest hint of poor play with venom and Mom jokes, then you're not just pounding that player, you're pounding your team's chance of winning.

According to the video this isn't exactly true, they say that sportsmanlike players win 1.7 million more games every day. Sadly without knowing how they got that number and how many games are played a day this number really doesn't say all that much.

It's a good video, but I'm just not sure about that number

I just love it when companys think im some sort of drooling idiot. Any kid who ever played a game of football can tell you as much as.

This is stupid.

If we don't tell players how bad they are, then they have no motivation to get better.

Don't want to get bullied? Get better. Trash talking benefits everyone.

Borania:
According to the video this isn't exactly true, they say that sportsmanlike players win 1.7 million more games every day. Sadly without knowing how they got that number and how many games are played a day this number really doesn't say all that much.

It's a good video, but I'm just not sure about that number

Neither do they explain how they obtain the numbers for ragers. First guess: by reports... uninvestigated ones... There's still a dark figure of unreported rages. And I'm pretty sure that there is a noteable correlation between won or lost and reported rage and unreported rage.

RatherDull:
This is stupid.

If we don't tell players how bad they are, then they have no motivation to get better.

Don't want to get bullied? Get better. Trash talking benefits everyone.

This is an excuse for not trying harder to win.

If nobody tells the players what mistakes they make, they will have a very flat learning curve, since they have to figure out everything by themselves.

Don't want to play with bad teammates? Tell them what they failed in, why it failed and how to do it better...
nicely! Tutoring the weak players helps everyone.

But then again people can't be bothered with this effort, can they? It's not like you can turn a game, if a newbie stops doing some mistakes... can it?

sidenote:
Having tried to nicely tell newbies their mistakes... Yes, it is tiring. Yes, it is frustrating having to do this many games in a row. Yes, you meet this kind of learnresistant deaf-mutes (mute if you are lucky).
But you also meet learners and get rewarded with a win sometimes.
And yes, I couldn't maintain teaching newbies in every game it might have benefitted me.

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