Dad Alters Donkey Kong for His Daughter - With Pauline as the Hero

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I would say "IT BEGINS" but i think i'm late on this one.

How sweet. The modding scene is the best way for people who want things done, done. Learning to mod/model is quite hard, but it's definitely better than whining at the developer and arguing over years-old games (like DK) and accomplishes more. Because with modding, you can be anyone you want.

Jenvas1306:

its obviously not just a thing among children, how many guys wouldnt play alice: the madness returns cause its got a heroine. female character to play, so it must be a girls game...

None, I have literally never seen anyone complain that an Alice in Wonderland game had Alice as the PC. It's like complaining a Duke Nukem game didn't have Duke Nukem as the PC. Unless you can point me to any examples, I'm just gonna say you're making it up. Hell, the /v/ board on 4chan hates feminists and most women but they still put the first Alice game on most of their top 100 lists they make.

Tenmar:

I think my main gripe is just that this generation of "feminists" have lost their way and have forgotten that the point of feminism was the pursuit of equal rights under the law.

Nope, the point feminism of feminism was never "equal rights under the law". It was about equality in general, of which equal rights under the law is only a part.

OT: Nice. Always wanted to learn how to hack roms and do cool stuff like this, but I have never really cared enough to look it up. XD

ToastiestZombie:
How sweet. The modding scene is the best way for people who want things done, done. Learning to mod/model is quite hard, but it's definitely better than whining at the developer and arguing over years-old games (like DK) and accomplishes more. Because with modding, you can be anyone you want.

Jenvas1306:

its obviously not just a thing among children, how many guys wouldnt play alice: the madness returns cause its got a heroine. female character to play, so it must be a girls game...

None, I have literally never seen anyone complain that an Alice in Wonderland game had Alice as the PC. It's like complaining a Duke Nukem game didn't have Duke Nukem as the PC. Unless you can point me to any examples, I'm just gonna say you're making it up. Hell, the /v/ board on 4chan hates feminists and most women but they still put the first Alice game on most of their top 100 lists they make.

I have no statistics to base than on, I just know a few examples of that in person. So I would assume that they arent the only ones.
But those guys are anyways a little backwards so its quite possible that I'm more on the wrong side with that and in that case I will boldly use it as an example that having a female PC doesnt push down the sales!

Bara_no_Hime:

Hixy:
This has nothing to do with feminism at all, the little girl wanted to imagine herself in the game so he made that possible. It was a nice thing to do and we don't need it ruined by feminist bashing or by using it as another ''games are sexist'' thing. This thread is going to degrade fast.

Actually it does have to do with feminism.

It shows how easy it is to make the feminists (like me) happy.

Seriously, this is it. Just make an option to switch the sprites and you have solved all of our problems with that game. It is just that easy.

It really isn't that easy in any modern, 3D game. A female's shape is very different compared to a man's shape, so it requires them to change or redo every single animation and create new models, hitboxes and more. Did you know it cost around a million dollars for them to make a single character in SF4? I agree that they should add more in, but it really isn't as easy as modding a 30 year old game to change the sprites around.

BreakfastMan:

Tenmar:

I think my main gripe is just that this generation of "feminists" have lost their way and have forgotten that the point of feminism was the pursuit of equal rights under the law.

Nope, the point feminism of feminism was never "equal rights under the law". It was about equality in general, of which equal rights under the law is only a part.

OT: Nice. Always wanted to learn how to hack roms and do cool stuff like this, but I have never really cared enough to look it up. XD

It's nice to see that at least some people understand the history and point of feminism without it getting lost somewhere between "feminazi" and the "white-knight". This is a cool hack and provides a great launching pad for action and discussion on perception, feminism and video games more than any tropes series.

Jenvas1306:
Snip

Well, Tomb Raider is selling very well and that's got a female PC. They even under-sexualized her compared to other games (anyone who says that Lara in the new Tomb Raider is sexualized is a dimwit) , and show her as an actually good character instead of "Indiana Jones in a bra". Silent Hill 3 sold well, despite having a female PC. Men aren't as sexist overall as you lot may think, we really aren't. The average Joe doesn't care at all about who they play as in a game as long as the game's good. I'm a man, and I've got a group of friends that can definitely be considered true gamers, and none of them give a shit about whether the thing holding a gun is a man, woman, dog, cat or alien.

Well then, looks like another person who just doesn't get it. Pauline was already the hero in the original game.
Basically the story behind is this: Donkey Kong is Mario's abused pet who finally got sick of Mario's shit and decided to run away. Him grabbing Pauline is him taking the one good thing in his life away with him.

Also, this has been done before and was talked about on these forums, so people who are acting like this is a new thing, stop it, it isn't a new thing.

Jenvas1306:

its obviously not just a thing among children, how many guys wouldnt play alice: the madness returns cause its got a heroine. female character to play, so it must be a girls game...

So a father altered a game to have a female character because his daughter finds it uncomfortable to be a boy.

...and just like that we have turned a "girl power" moment into something to be ashamed of by inciting the idea that you have to be your own gender.

ToastiestZombie:

Jenvas1306:
Snip

Well, Tomb Raider is selling very well and that's got a female PC. They even under-sexualized her compared to other games (anyone who says that Lara in the new Tomb Raider is sexualized is a dimwit) , and show her as an actually good character instead of "Indiana Jones in a bra". Silent Hill 3 sold well, despite having a female PC. Men aren't as sexist overall as you lot may think, we really aren't. The average Joe doesn't care at all about who they play as in a game as long as the game's good. I'm a man, and I've got a group of friends that can definitely be considered true gamers, and none of them give a shit about whether the thing holding a gun is a man, woman, dog, cat or alien.

tell that certain gaming producers.
even though, for tomb raider I guess it sorta mattered, in a different way, why else would there be nude hacks? its not alone with mods like that aswell, even for alice you find stuff like that. hacks like that for duke nukem certainly dont make you look at his naked butt.
btw I dont assume all guys are sexist, but sexism still has too much influence where games are made and these days it gets twisted away from the actual point quite terribly.

Jenvas1306:

ToastiestZombie:

Jenvas1306:
Snip

Well, Tomb Raider is selling very well and that's got a female PC. They even under-sexualized her compared to other games (anyone who says that Lara in the new Tomb Raider is sexualized is a dimwit) , and show her as an actually good character instead of "Indiana Jones in a bra". Silent Hill 3 sold well, despite having a female PC. Men aren't as sexist overall as you lot may think, we really aren't. The average Joe doesn't care at all about who they play as in a game as long as the game's good. I'm a man, and I've got a group of friends that can definitely be considered true gamers, and none of them give a shit about whether the thing holding a gun is a man, woman, dog, cat or alien.

tell that certain gaming producers.
even though, for tomb raider I guess it sorta mattered, in a different way, why else would there be nude hacks? its not alone with mods like that aswell, even for alice you find stuff like that. hacks like that for duke nukem certainly dont make you look at his naked butt.
btw I dont assume all guys are sexist, but sexism still has too much influence where games are made and these days it gets twisted away from the actual point quite terribly.

Nude mods and hacks are for EVERY game with a female protagonist if it comes out on PC. Not all men are sexist, but a lot of us PC gamers are horny fucks. Also, Duke Nukem is a first person shooter so a nude mod for Duke Nukem himself is pretty redundant.

Toy Master Typhus:

Jenvas1306:

its obviously not just a thing among children, how many guys wouldnt play alice: the madness returns cause its got a heroine. female character to play, so it must be a girls game...

So a father altered a game to have a female character because his daughter finds it uncomfortable to be a boy.

...and just like that we have turned a "girl power" moment into something to be ashamed of by inciting the idea that you have to be your own gender.

the point is that you should have a choice, unless like in alice case there are good reasons that the pc has to be either of the genders

ToastiestZombie:

Snip

Im aware, just wanted to stay on the list of already mentioned games. Mario is allways 3rd person, but who would want to see the plumbers junk? its just triangles anyways. If its triangles in the shapes of boobs its suddenly different and trying to get lara into a corner to get a good look at her is a thing.
Its just something that makes me sad. got a game with a woman as the hero, she isnt a powerless plot device but people still have to objectify her like that.
I never look for artwork of samus just for that reason.

Jenvas1306:

ToastiestZombie:

Snip

Im aware, just wanted to stay on the list of already mentioned games. Mario is allways 3rd person, but who would want to see the plumbers junk? its just triangles anyways. If its triangles in the shapes of boobs its suddenly different and trying to get lara into a corner to get a good look at her is a thing.
Its just something that makes me sad. got a game with a woman as the hero, she isnt a powerless plot device but people still have to objectify her like that.
I never look for artwork of samus just for that reason.

Mate, it's a fact of life that PC modders and artists will make porn and sexualized imagery of pretty much anything. Go onto rule 34.com and search for Mario, or don't (you get my point). I've seen tons of gay nude mods for Skyrim, Mass Effect and more. I've seen porn of pretty much anything in my browsin' days, nothing really surprises me anymore. My point is, the internet is full of horny bastards and will stay that way unless you kill everyone with a penis and most women. Just get used to it, nobody's going to change human nature. Just filter it out and enjoy the things for what they are instead of letting other people's actions affect them.

Coooool!!! Now do one where you're Ryu and you Hadouken your way up the tower to save Ken!

ToastiestZombie:
It really isn't that easy in any modern, 3D game. A female's shape is very different compared to a man's shape, so it requires them to change or redo every single animation and create new models, hitboxes and more. Did you know it cost around a million dollars for them to make a single character in SF4? I agree that they should add more in, but it really isn't as easy as modding a 30 year old game to change the sprites around.

True. However, in this case, I was only talking about old 2D retro games.

I think I may have forgotten to mention that because I'm fresh off of the Tropes vs Women thread. The first video, Damsels in Distress, makes a point about all the captured women in retro games (as well as modern sequels, particularly the Mario and Zelda franchises) and the issues with all these games being re-released for mobile devices.

What I was saying is that simply swapping the 2D sprites like this very awesome Dad did would solve that problem completely. It doesn't help modern games, but they tend to suffer less from Damsel in Distress than retro titles. And it wouldn't even necessitate "changing" the classic retro games because the original mode would still be included - switching to "Dude in Distress, Damsel as Hero" would simply be an option (and both would still use original sprites). Thus classic games get to return but be less sexist. Win/win.

As far as modern games go, I am STILL going to insist on companies including female playable characters. But I am not going to suggest that it's a quick and easy character swap. That comment (on how this is easy feminism) was only meant to apply to retro titles.

Bara_no_Hime:

Hixy:
This has nothing to do with feminism at all, the little girl wanted to imagine herself in the game so he made that possible. It was a nice thing to do and we don't need it ruined by feminist bashing or by using it as another ''games are sexist'' thing. This thread is going to degrade fast.

Actually it does have to do with feminism.

It shows how easy it is to make the feminists (like me) happy.

Seriously, this is it. Just make an option to switch the sprites and you have solved all of our problems with that game. It is just that easy.

Really, you had a problem with this retro game because you had to play as Mario and there was no female character instead? That actually causes you some sort of offense? Over sensitive much.

Jenvas1306:

ToastiestZombie:
I'm a man, and I've got a group of friends that can definitely be considered true gamers, and none of them give a shit about whether the thing holding a gun is a man, woman, dog, cat or alien.

tell that certain gaming producers.

Yeah, seriously. I hate the idea that, and I paraphrase:

"Everyone can relate to a male protagonist, but only women relate to a female protagonist."

That belief, held by SO many game producers (and producers of pretty much ALL media - this is why movies with female leads are (almost) always assumed to be directed at women while movies with male leads are assumed to be directed at everyone) is absoutely toxic and entirely incorrect. As noted by Toastiest Zombie and most other male gamers I've spoken with, most male gamers really don't care if their avatar is male or female.

Jenvas1306:
why else would there be nude hacks?

Huh? What does that have to do with anything?

Hacks are just that - hacks. All that says is that one amateur (and immature) programmer, somewhere, felt like making a nude hack.

That would be like getting angry at - say - Nintendo because someone drew naked pictures of Link and posted them on Deviant Art.

Or like getting mad at the creators of Saint's Row 2 because I decided during my play-through to create flesh-tone underwear for my character(s) and thus avoid the blur filter while still being "naked". I didn't find the results particularly sexy, but it was really funny.

Hixy:
Really, you had a problem with this retro game because you had to play as Mario and there was no female character instead? That actually causes you some sort of offense? Over sensitive much.

Not just this one. MANY retro games, including Super Mario Brothers and the Legend of Zelda, see women only as passive characters to be kidnapped and held hostage so that the player can rescue them.

These games basically say that women are too helpless to defend themselves - at best - or that women aren't really people and instead are objects to be won.

And video games are not the only media guilty of this **cough Twilight cough** - just one of the most frequent abusers of the cliche.

If you want a more thorough discussion on the topic, here, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q&feature=player_embedded&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA

And as far as being over-sensitive - how would you like it if the entire games media decided that men were worthless and unable to do anything themselves, and released nothing but games that showed men as weak, stupid, and helpless. For years. Would you like that? No? Then don't call me over-sensitive.

Edit: Before anyone misinterprets this, let me add the following:
One game using this trope, meh, no problem. Most games using it - big problem.
My point was that, in the case of retro games like this altered version of Donkey Kong, it is insanely easy to fix the problem. Just make the protagonist optional, as this Dad did. Suddenly the game shows both Jump Man and Pauline to be equal - equally likely to be kidnapped by a giant monkey, and equally likely to come to the rescue.

If other Damsel-in-Distress retro games did this, then suddenly they are no longer Damsel-in-Distress games. They show equality rather than sexism. All by making which sprite is the kidnap victim and which one is the protagonist optional. Just. That. Easy.

Bara_no_Hime:

Hixy:
Really, you had a problem with this retro game because you had to play as Mario and there was no female character instead? That actually causes you some sort of offense? Over sensitive much.

Not just this one. MANY retro games, including Super Mario Brothers and the Legend of Zelda, see women only as passive characters to be kidnapped and held hostage so that the player can rescue them.

These games basically say that women are too helpless to defend themselves - at best - or that women aren't really people and instead are objects to be won.

And video games are not the only media guilty of this **cough Twilight cough** - just one of the most frequent abusers of the cliche.

If you want a more thorough discussion on the topic, here, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q&feature=player_embedded&list=UU7Edgk9RxP7Fm7vjQ1d-cDA

And as far as being over-sensitive - how would you like it if the entire games media decided that men were worthless and unable to do anything themselves, and released nothing but games that showed men as weak, stupid, and helpless. For years. Would you like that? No? Then don't call me over-sensitive.

Edit: Before anyone misinterprets this, let me add the following:
One game using this trope, meh, no problem. Most games using it - big problem.
My point was that, in the case of retro games like this altered version of Donkey Kong, it is insanely easy to fix the problem. Just make the protagonist optional, as this Dad did. Suddenly the game shows both Jump Man and Pauline to be equal - equally likely to be kidnapped by a giant monkey, and equally likely to come to the rescue.

If other Damsel-in-Distress retro games did this, then suddenly they are no longer Damsel-in-Distress games. They show equality rather than sexism. All by making which sprite is the kidnap victim and which one is the protagonist optional. Just. That. Easy.

But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few. Tomb raider, bayonetta and that X blade thing but i will forget these because they heavily sexualise the characters which is it's own issue. That's a good mix of new and retro right there. Yes, I am aware Bella Swan is the worst thing to happen to feminism in the last 20 years I totally agree with you there. The Damsel in Distress theme was around before the classical era and is the basis of a great deal of mythology, it has pervaded through literature since that time in some form or another. Many of the works based on this are classics and will continue to be considered so even if the societal view of woman and men has changed. I think it would be ridiculous to call them sexist because you should consider the time they were created. Just like I think it's ridiculous to call the 1980's 2D platformer sexist because no one was considering that angle of the game then, no one considered the societal impact of games at all. The industry is changing but you have to let it and crying foul on stupid things just cheapens your point.

Thanks for the link but if I want 25 minutes of my life wasted I can think of better ways than listening to an uninformed charlatan.

Pretty awesome mod. He is a cool dad for doing this.

Hixy:
But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few.

Once again, I'm only addressing Retro games here. The games currently being revived and ported to portable devices of various sorts in App form. Games like Donkey Kong.

None of the games you listed - good games, mind - are retro games.

As far as the link goes, she (finally) did her research for this series. I had many criticisms about her old videos - her new ones, while a bit stiff, are well researched and even two sided. Give it a look. It provides a list of Retro titles (all available on portable devices) that use the Damsel trope. Her list is longer than yours. Much.

Zhukov:
My God, the feminists are defiling classic games with their revisionist history!

Or something like that.

If only that weren't really being argued somewhere right now.

Jenvas1306:
hacks like that for duke nukem certainly dont make you look at his naked butt.

One: Hacks have no bearing on the industry.

Two: You innocent, innocent soul. I've seen mods that would make you cry blood.

After all, what good is the ability to see the protagonist's junk if you can't multiply... its... size... expo...nen...tially? [bursts into tears]

Zachary Amaranth:

Zhukov:
My God, the feminists are defiling classic games with their revisionist history!

Or something like that.

If only that weren't really being argued somewhere right now.

Eh, we need something to point and laugh at, right?

Adorable story, this Dad is awesome :)

It's cool to see the ways in which parenting have evolved with higher technological knowledge.

Someone get Lacktheknack a beer. I think a horrible memory needs to be drowned in fermented goodness.

Back on topic, kudos to this father for doing something neat. It may be old news, but that doesn't make it any less wonderful. I hope he inspires dozens of people to find new ways of bringing video game gems to new generations.

Prepare for full retaliation for this tremendous insult: http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1515

Hixy:
This has nothing to do with feminism at all, the little girl wanted to imagine herself in the game so he made that possible. It was a nice thing to do and we don't need it ruined by feminist bashing or by using it as another ''games are sexist'' thing. This thread is going to degrade fast.

I agree have to agree. why must the mentioning of the word feminist always turn a thread into a shit storm.
well anyway while I still have my sanity
image

AstylahAthrys:
This is really cool and props to that dad for making it! He deserves a dad of the year award simply for the effort!

I'm sorry but this is nowhere near as awesome as the dad who dressed up in a dress with his little son so he wouldn't feel discriminated. In public mind you.

How is this news? It's nothing more than redrawing the sprites and changing some hex values for the colours - probably took an hour or two. I used to do this stuff as a teenager.

defskyoen:
Prepare for full retaliation for this tremendous insult: http://www.p4rgaming.com/?p=1515

Umm okay...hold up. I can't even find this "Mr.Pac-Men" group online at all. Not even a link to his profile or site and even going through 20 pages of google search I can't find anything about him at all.

Something is kinda fishy here. Not even a link to the actual altered game or even a video. Sorry but I'm staying skeptic because there really is a lack of sources and more based on just "believe me, I got a good face".

Bara_no_Hime:
Not just this one. MANY retro games, including Super Mario Brothers and the Legend of Zelda, see women only as passive characters to be kidnapped and held hostage so that the player can rescue them.

These games basically say that women are too helpless to defend themselves - at best - or that women aren't really people and instead are objects to be won.

No no no no no. This was what I hated about Ms. Sarkeesian's latest video and comments like yours. You assume such a trope exists because somewhere along the line men gained dominance in the media and decided to portray women as objects because... well, because they're cruel and heartless and just want to keep those weak women under their thumb. NO - not at all.

The trope exists because, in antiquity, women were considerably more valuable than men when it came to the continuation of the tribe. Infant death rates were incredibly high, and to maintain a stable population you needed baby ovens working around the clock. If you have 100 men and 10 women you've got ~10 shots at making a baby in the coming year. If you've got 100 women and 10 men you've got ~100 shots at making a baby. Women weren't protected because they were seen as weak, they were protected because they were crucial to the survival of the tribe. It made sense for a man to risk his life to save a woman, and it made equal sense for the woman to try and stay out of danger herself. This objectifies women AND men, though in a completely different - and NECESSARY - way than what you take issue with.

You're free to take objection to the trope in modern times, but understand the context and history of the trope. The games don't say women are too helpless to defend themselves, they're utilising a trope that exists because women are too valuable to defend themselves.

NoeL:
You're free to take objection to the trope in modern times, but understand the context and history of the trope. The games don't say women are too helpless to defend themselves, they're utilising a trope that exists because women are too valuable to defend themselves.

**facepalm**

Really?

First off, yes, I acknowledge that your are historically correct - for the use of the trope around 1000+ years ago. Honestly, more like 2000-3000 years ago, but one has to allow for the Dark Ages setting society back so far I suppose. The survival of the tribe hasn't been the actual context of the story since some very, VERY early times.

Since around 500 CE, the reason for the trope has been to keep women out of positions of power. This was implemented by the Catholic Church to increase the power of the Pope and provide an excuse to execute strong women (aka "Witches"). Only passive women, who sit and wait to be rescued, were proper women. Strong women who could rescue themselves were "witches" and needed to die.

By 400 years ago, it was a trope because it had always been a trope. And then things started to get a little better for a while. The Catholic Church lost power after the Reformation, women started being able to speak their mind (a bit more anyway) under (some of) the new churches.

And then around 200 years ago, that came crashing back down again. Not only were weak women glorified, causing the rebirth of this trope as a Courtly Bard trope, but DEAD women became a thing. That's what led to the "dead mother" trope for female protagonists.

Most of our fairy tales were written down during the Victorian Era by courtly bards and writers. That's why so many use tropes like this (and other anti-woman tropes) - because they were popular in society then.

Disney brought a lot of these back into popularity during the 1940-60s with their early movies (feature length, not shorts) like Snow White and Cinderella. There are actually three versions of Cinderella - the bloody German version, the polite French version, and the other French version where Cinderella fights with a sword and kills Ogres because she's fucking awesome. Disney took the Polite and German versions and mixed them (removing the blood) to create their version.

The point is, yes, the trope was created thousands and thousands of years ago by early tribal humans where everyone was treated like property. If you won a war in that time, the losers were your slaves. Your soldiers got to rape all the women so that the next generation would be all your kids. Do you really want to use that bloody, awful time period as a defense for modern tropes?

We've evolved as a society since then. Is it that much to ask that we don't treat people as property? As a prize to be won?

And, before you accuse me of ignorance, I think you might want to check on my knowledge first.

Bara_no_Hime:
We've evolved as a society since then. Is it that much to ask that we don't treat people as property? As a prize to be won?

Word.

Who cares what the history is. What you've said stands on its own merit.

Also, he's flat wrong that women are more valuable ie parenting. Men are just as important.

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